My daughter has BPD and her children are struggling What can I do?

[somuchlove]

I haven't been here for over 8 years.  Glad that you are still here.  My daughter, in her 40's and our grandchildren still in the home are really struggling.  She's a single mom and has done an amazing job but it has also been a very bad situation as well.  The oldest will be moving out at some point to go to college.  She has really been horrible to them at times, they typical BPD spinning.  They have really struggled and a lot of stress.  They are trying to deal with her when needed as they understand part of this horrible thing she goes through but it is hard.  She talks horrible to them, accuse them of not doing enough, not helping, even though they do.  Everyone has said horrible hurtful things.  It is like she has turned on them.  She says they hate her, she is going to call the police on them because they are scaring her.  That is not the case but they do get upset and have lived with this for a long time.  I don't know how I can help them.  She also has a younger one and this is affecting him as well.  I have learned how to kind of talk to her, reading much about BPD but the kids try but not much success.  We have suggested they go to someone to talk to, to get tools to help with communication.  She won't.  Says she will but hasn't.  I don't want to sacrifice the kids to keep her from doing something horrible. ( Meaning, tell her we are going to try to have younger one live with us or report what is going on.)  Her biggest fear is SRS will come get the kids.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[beatricex]

hi somuchlove,
welcome back
You may want to try posting this over on the Child With part of the board, this is the Parent/Sibling With side.  You will likely get more responses over there.  Usually a moderator moves them, but I noticed yours wasn't.

b

[somuchlove]

I just don't know how to help my grandchildren.  The 2 oldest are out of high school and attending college in home town for this year.  They want to move out but also know they are good for their younger sibling and helpful to care and pick up after school.  Mother has, when in one of her crazy times, is so mean and demeaning.  I was able to have one of them go to counseling to hopefully help him.  he finally a year ago came to me after Mom put him down in public.  He has felt for a long time that something must be wrong with him to cause all the stuff that goes on.  That is not the case.  Both older ones have become more verbal and the home is very stressful.  Then she will turn around and want to do all the good things and they love it.  She has been a good single mom, putting her kids 1st.  But these episodes are so bad.  She will text me that one is being so mean she can't come out of her room, or she is going to call the police.  I listen.  Eventually things are good again.

How can I help.  It is killing my wonderful family.  And huge concerns for the youngest. 

[Turkish]

What happens that prompts your daughter to want to call the police on her children? How do the stories she tells you differ (or not) from what your grandkids tell you?

I'm not judging one over the other. A few years ago, my BPD mom had an issue with her neighbor which resulted in my mom cutting her off for months. They were kind of "frienemies." I heard the same story from both. What differed were their emotional reactions to it. The details were nearly identical.

Calling the cops is serious business. My mom did that to me as a 40-some thing adult.

[somuchlove]

I'm a little confused on navigating here.  I Beatricex suggested I move to A child with thread.  I am not sure if I am in that thread or not?  I also can't seem to find how to reply to a specific post. 

I would like to reply to Turkish also. 

Thanks for your help.

[somuchlove]

What happens that prompts your daughter to want to call the police on her children? How do the stories she tells you differ (or not) from what your grandkids tell you?

I'm not judging one over the other. A few years ago, my BPD mom had an issue with her neighbor which resulted in my mom cutting her off for months. They were kind of "frienemies." I heard the same story from both. What differed were their emotional reactions to it. The details were nearly identical.

Calling the cops is serious business. My mom did that to me as a 40-some thing adult.

When his mom just gets into "that frame of mind" I think, even though his counselor has helped him with tools to communicate with her, He has trouble as she just won't let up sometimes.  He tries to go to his room or just leave for awhile.  However, he is really struggleing with what she has said to him and treated him, even in public in front of people.  Example, she got really sick, he was afraid she was having appendix attack or something and he finally convinced her to go to the ER.  While there he said she talked to bad to him, and in front of the nurses said he was so mean to her, etc.  She has done that other places.  He has worked hard to try to do things right but lived with this for so long.  He does not get physical, but has hit a wall or storms out the door.  He deals with it differently than his brother.  He is so caring and sensitive but has lived with ( I have found out in this past year) that he feels it's all his fault and not sure what he has done, but thinks something has to be wrong with him and know one will tell him.  I am so glad he is talking to a counselor. 

[beatricex]

hi again somuchlove,
You're in the right spot now, you have also replied to Turkish.  Logistics out of the way, thank you for sharing more.

You sound like a very caring grandmother.  Good thing you're in your grandkids lives.

My BPD mom also called the police on me once (I was 17), I second that 1) it's not fun and 2) it's serious business.  Hopefully the police just let everyone cool off?

It is good that the oldest is thinking about moving out soon (to attend college).  I know it's tough in today's climate, everything is so expensive right now.  How old is the youngest?

b

[Sancho]

Hi Somuchlove.

Two things come to mind reading your post. The first is that I am not surprised that issues are arising at this point in time (not to say that there have not been issues before, but they seem to be escalating). I think it is a huge challenge to a bpd mum when children are on the cusp of leaving home. She is losing control and her abandonment issues will be front and centre I think. She might be focusing on the youngest as a reaction to make him feel guilty and responsible for being there for her.

If there is something in this, I wonder if the older children talked to her about how they would be keeping in contact if they did move out? Something that put the focus on the fact that she would still be seeing them etc so the abandonment was not so intense?

The other thing that came to mind is that is there any chance that she is slipping into psychosis? Remember BPD is called that because the person can be on the border of psychosis and something can push them over the edge - in this case it could be the older children leaving.

What sort of details does she give in relation to why she would be calling the police?

It might be better when the older ones actually move out. If they can establish a routine of keeping in touch with the younger one - and mum - then things might settle down.

Children moving out is a huge step for all concerned. For someone with bpd it is very high on the stressor scale.

[somuchlove]

Thank-you.  I think you hit on two valid points.   I know it is hard for her to have them leave.  But does everything to push them.  She has them so stressed and I know they are so confused why mom is turning against us.  I don't know they could even have a conversation with her about not really never seeing her.  I feel many words out if anger ,like leaving and just getting out and staying away.  My daughter just can't seem to see ,at least to me that all have said hurtful things that aren't really meant.  She only thinks it's them to her.  Although once in awhile she says I know I say things but never has been as cruel as they are.  Make note, they have been lo ING and worried about her for a lo g time but in the past few years have they started to really strick back
 
Her calling the cops has been something she has voiced about others too.  Off and on throughout the past 20 years. 

I have tried to educate a little about what BPD IS to them.  And they try to communicate better but it's hard and has taken me a long time to communicate better.  I couldn't live with it constantly.   She twists you up so much in communication.

What can I do?  I have suggested her to visit with someone to get tools to help her work on talking to them.  Not telling her she is to blame or mentally ill.  If she's in psychosis what does that mean.  She has become paranoid and text me sometimes she scare of the boys to leave her room.  I know they get mad and slam door but i
Know she just pushes them .

[Sancho]

Hi Somuchlove. Thanks for your response - it has clarified things a good deal I think. If I understand correctly:

Your daughter shows all those BPD characteristics and your grandchildren have had to deal with put downs and blaming etc - probably all their lives?

They are now at an age where they are not taking this ie they are challenging her with their own anger and struggle to become independent.

Your daughter responds to this saying she will call the police etc - but she has no insight at all into the way she treats them.

Watching all this happen from the sidelines is truly distressing - but I am not sure what you can do.

At the moment you don't seem to be drawn into the conflict - but I might be wrong about that. I have had to deal with BPD dd and grandchild - younger than yours, but still often huge tensions will arise. I have learnt that if I try to say even a gentle truth I am immediately drawn into things and become 'piggy-in-the-middle'.  I have to step back and let things happen for a while, and then I can resume my care etc for gd.

The other thing is that for me, calling the police was a no-no. In the end when they ended up coming it was actually a very good thing. I am assuming the children are just yelling and slamming doors - is that right? If there is other stuff happening that would be a different scenario.

I am so sorry that you are in this position. It is heart breaking . . .

[somuchlove]

Thanks for responding.   As with most responses on here you all seem to really hit the nail on the head and show support.   Yes older ones are finally speaking out. 

I worry that the 10 year old daughter may rebel in a different way at some point.   She is still giving lots of love and needed emotion to mom but there will become a time, as she grows this may change.  She does now have some issues with the whole girls in school conflicts.  Normal but think mom may respond, at times in ways of, they are mean, the invited people etc.  Instead of helping with building her self esteem.   However,  my daughter can be very smart and with great support help her.

I feel, when told there really isn't much we can do except be there,  listen etc. It's like watching then in the middle of a lake drowning and everyone holds me back saying you can't really do anything.   Do we just stand by and watch what may happen.   It's not these children's fault.  So many situations there is intervention and all are getting support and live is better but WITH BPD IS this not the case?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi Somuchlove
Yes watching it happen is - well it's hard to find the words to describe how bad it is.

Every situation is different - and if you can think of something that you could do that would help it would be good to do that. I think many of us here have gone through so many different ways of trying to help and found out that it either didn't help or made it worse.

I used to go through a process in my mind - or even doing a diagram is good - where I would look at all the options I had to do something. Then I looked at the possible consequences of each option. This was a good thing for me to do, because I could often see that I would end up making things worse.

For example DD and gd live with me and sometimes when DD is yelling impossible things at gd I have to bite my tongue because I learnt that if I did just make a brief, gentle comment, it would end in me becoming the object of verbal abuse, which in the long run made it worse for gd. Now I stay silent and if possible, and at the right time I just give gd a 'look' that says I know this is tough.

Perhaps you could brainstorm here any options/possibilities for your situation? This is just so hard . . . . .