How do you prove this?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My stbEX has admitted to just about all of the physically abusive incidents I accused her of. However, her L is trying to frame it as situational and circumstantial, as if she was under so much stress that she just couldn't help but to abuse me. I know you all realize how absurd this is. I was under just as much stress, if not even more since I was living with her, yet I never came close to being violent with her. For some reason, our CE has bought what she has said and appears to have just swept it all under the rug as if it never even happened in her report.

My impression at this point in our case is that the legal community overall in my county is extremely uninformed about domestic violence and may even believe that it was just situational, may have been partially or fully my fault, and didn't happen before me and won't ever happen again after me.

Are there any studies that any of you are aware of that prove people aren't physically abusive just on a situational basis, but that their core being is an abusive personality that'll act like that no matter who they're with?

[alleyesonme]

My stbEX has admitted to just about all of the physically abusive incidents I accused her of. However, her L is trying to frame it as situational and circumstantial, as if she was under so much stress that she just couldn't help but to abuse me. I know you all realize how absurd this is. I was under just as much stress, if not even more since I was living with her, yet I never came close to being violent with her. For some reason, our CE has bought what she has said and appears to have just swept it all under the rug as if it never even happened in her report.

My impression at this point in our case is that the legal community overall in my county is extremely uninformed about domestic violence and may even believe that it was just situational, may have been partially or fully my fault, and didn't happen before me and won't ever happen again after me.

Are there any studies that any of you are aware of that prove people aren't physically abusive just on a situational basis, but that their core being is an abusive personality that'll act like that no matter who they're with?

[ForeverDad]

Situational, well, that's what we claim when asked how we behaved the way we did that was contrary to our own histories and personalities.

Hmm, if incidents occurred multiple times then it's a pattern.  If she claims that you made her abusive and that wasn't her, then why didn't she leave the relationship?

I'm assuming you're the one who ended it?

[GaGrl]

It could be framed as the way she "handles" anger -- in other words, she doesn't.

When exposed to the same stressors, she becomes violent. You don't.

[alleyesonme]

Situational, well, that's what we claim when asked how we behaved the way we did that was contrary to our own histories and personalities.

Hmm, if incidents occurred multiple times then it's a pattern.  If she claims that you made her abusive and that wasn't her, then why didn't she leave the relationship?

I'm assuming you're the one who ended it?

Exactly, and especially so when it's a pattern that happened over and over for years.

It was a mutual ending, but I think she just got to that point because she knew I was at that point as well.

[alleyesonme]

It could be framed as the way she "handles" anger -- in other words, she doesn't.

When exposed to the same stressors, she becomes violent. You don't.

Yes, exactly. I'm not sure why the legal professionals in our county don't understand that. Is this just a subtle example of the double standards for males versus females?

[I Am Redeemed]

Yes, exactly. I'm not sure why the legal professionals in our county don't understand that. Is this just a subtle example of the double standards for males versus females?

It's possible. I would also add that it may be a reflection of how the court sees conflict between romantic partners. If your ex was physically abusive to the children, that may be a different story. Unfortunately, it may not matter that she admitted to physical violence towards you if it was not directed at the children.

Just an example of how ridiculous the court system can be:

I have been separated from ubpdxh for 4 years. He was extremely physically abusive and even has criminal convictions for DV against me. However, when I got my divorce, I had to testify that I believed my proposal for 365 days a year of parenting time for my son to be with me was in my son's best interests (with no specified visitation from father) because his father 1) absuses substances and is physically abusive 2) has not seen his kid in 3 years and 3) is a convicted felon. I had to have a witness testify that this was true and it was only because my ex did not hire a lawyer or show up to court to refute the claims. Still, with all this, I had to testify that I had not refused my ex contact with his son and that he was free to contact him anytime he chose.

Courts do not take physical abuse of the spouse seriously unless there is a current restraining or protective order. I was told by my lawyer that even thought there were prior convictions and jail time for my ex for DV against me, and even though he served time in prison for assaulting his former wife, I could not withhold contact between him and his son without a current protective order. Even though he nearly killed me and sexually assaulted me, if he calls to talk to my son, I have to let him according to the current parenting plan.

It seems that only current legal restraints will justify protecting children from dangerous parents.

[alleyesonme]

It's possible. I would also add that it may be a reflection of how the court sees conflict between romantic partners. If your ex was physically abusive to the children, that may be a different story. Unfortunately, it may not matter that she admitted to physical violence towards you if it was not directed at the children.

Just an example of how ridiculous the court system can be:

I have been separated from ubpdxh for 4 years. He was extremely physically abusive and even has criminal convictions for DV against me. However, when I got my divorce, I had to testify that I believed my proposal for 365 days a year of parenting time for my son to be with me was in my son's best interests (with no specified visitation from father) because his father 1) absuses substances and is physically abusive 2) has not seen his kid in 3 years and 3) is a convicted felon. I had to have a witness testify that this was true and it was only because my ex did not hire a lawyer or show up to court to refute the claims. Still, with all this, I had to testify that I had not refused my ex contact with his son and that he was free to contact him anytime he chose.

Courts do not take physical abuse of the spouse seriously unless there is a current restraining or protective order. I was told by my lawyer that even thought there were prior convictions and jail time for my ex for DV against me, and even though he served time in prison for assaulting his former wife, I could not withhold contact between him and his son without a current protective order. Even though he nearly killed me and sexually assaulted me, if he calls to talk to my son, I have to let him according to the current parenting plan.

It seems that only current legal restraints will justify protecting children from dangerous parents.

I was sitting there speechless while reading your post - wow. I'm very sorry that you were abused like that by him and then the legal system didn't even care. Did any of the abuse that he committed against you take place in front of your son? If not, do you think it  would've changed the court's perspective if it did occur in front of your son?

[ForeverDad]

When I separated, my then-spouse had a charge of Threat of DV against her and I got a TPO.  When released from the municipal court system (OR - own recognizance) she went directly to domestic court and filed her own TPO.  A few months later her lawyer withdrew hers and mine was dismissed.  And her death threats?  She was ruled Not Guilty because she didn't have a weapon in her hands, judge applied the principle in another county of a drunk man saying he'd shoot his wife but since he didn't have a gun his wife couldn't get a judgment against him.

A few months later I attended an annual religious service and she was on the other side, she left and filed for a TPO.  My lawyer recommended I let him settle for a few months (judge could order anything up to 5 years) since I didn't want to see her anyway, our young son would be excluded and lawyer made sure it was a type of settlement that she could NOT have extended.

Guess what?  Once ended, court never referred to them again.  Not once.  It was as though legally everything was hunky-dory and roses were blooming again as far as court viewed it.  That's when I learned that judicial rationale is very different from normal common sense.  It was accumulated over decades from procedures and policies that morphed over time.

Frankly, that's a big reason why we need lawyers, otherwise we'd get overwhelmed and entrapped by all the seemingly illogical gotchas in the legal system.  It's a judicial system, not a justice system.

[CoherentMoose]

It's a judicial system, not a justice system.
Amen.  CoMo

[kells76]

legal community overall in my county is extremely uninformed about domestic violence and may even believe that it was just situational, may have been partially or fully my fault, and didn't happen before me and won't ever happen again after me.

Are there any studies that any of you are aware of that prove people aren't physically abusive just on a situational basis

AEOM, does your country/area have any DV hotlines, crisis centers, resource centers, etc? And/or, a college/university that has a MFT/clinical psych/etc department?

You could consider reaching out to those organizations to see if they have scholarly material that would both back you up AND be culturally acceptable documentation (perhaps a university clinical psych/family therapy department would be a little more "progressive" and at the cutting edge of research).

Like, if you're not in the USA, then sending you an article from a USA-based DV group, however accurate, might not help. But, if there's a reputable group, whether academic, nonprofit, or other, in your country that has a big list of articles, that might have more weight in your case.

[SinisterComplex]

It's possible. I would also add that it may be a reflection of how the court sees conflict between romantic partners. If your ex was physically abusive to the children, that may be a different story. Unfortunately, it may not matter that she admitted to physical violence towards you if it was not directed at the children.

Just an example of how ridiculous the court system can be:

I have been separated from ubpdxh for 4 years. He was extremely physically abusive and even has criminal convictions for DV against me. However, when I got my divorce, I had to testify that I believed my proposal for 365 days a year of parenting time for my son to be with me was in my son's best interests (with no specified visitation from father) because his father 1) absuses substances and is physically abusive 2) has not seen his kid in 3 years and 3) is a convicted felon. I had to have a witness testify that this was true and it was only because my ex did not hire a lawyer or show up to court to refute the claims. Still, with all this, I had to testify that I had not refused my ex contact with his son and that he was free to contact him anytime he chose.

Courts do not take physical abuse of the spouse seriously unless there is a current restraining or protective order. I was told by my lawyer that even thought there were prior convictions and jail time for my ex for DV against me, and even though he served time in prison for assaulting his former wife, I could not withhold contact between him and his son without a current protective order. Even though he nearly killed me and sexually assaulted me, if he calls to talk to my son, I have to let him according to the current parenting plan.

It seems that only current legal restraints will justify protecting children from dangerous parents.

I just wanted to comment on the abuse part in courts...it is absurd. If you try to file a restraining order its worthless. Essentially you have to be beaten within an inch of your life and then maybe they approve a restraining order. When in court abuse is all hearsay or framed as imagined or explained away, etc.

I still remember having to intervene on my brother's behalf when he called the cops on his ex wife because of her abusing him. The cops show up and immediately have it out for my brother and tried to cuff him and restrain him. I actually caused a scene and put the one cop in his place and explained the situation that my brother called you. Look at the marks on his arm and the cut on the side of his head...that is from her throwing stuff at him. My brother calls you and you treat him as if he is guilty and you treat her like she is the damsel in distress when she is the perpetrator and monster here officers.

I do not want to take away alleyesonme here or hijack the thread and place the focus on your past Redeemed. Just wanted to share the tidbit that I agree, I get it, and think the justice system needs an overhaul something fierce.

Cheers!

-SC-

[alleyesonme]

AEOM, does your country/area have any DV hotlines, crisis centers, resource centers, etc? And/or, a college/university that has a MFT/clinical psych/etc department?

You could consider reaching out to those organizations to see if they have scholarly material that would both back you up AND be culturally acceptable documentation (perhaps a university clinical psych/family therapy department would be a little more "progressive" and at the cutting edge of research).

Like, if you're not in the USA, then sending you an article from a USA-based DV group, however accurate, might not help. But, if there's a reputable group, whether academic, nonprofit, or other, in your country that has a big list of articles, that might have more weight in your case.

Great idea. I've reached out to some nonprofits and have been told they don't have that, but I hadn't thought of contacting a local college. Hopefully that'll do the trick. Thank you!

[ForeverDad]

I still remember having to intervene on my brother's behalf when he called the cops on his ex wife because of her abusing him. The cops show up and immediately have it out for my brother and tried to cuff him and restrain him. I actually caused a scene and put the one cop in his place and explained the situation that my brother called you. Look at the marks on his arm and the cut on the side of his head...that is from her throwing stuff at him. My brother calls you and you treat him as if he is guilty and you treat her like she is the damsel in distress when she is the perpetrator and monster here officers.

That happened to me too.  Back in 2005 I was the one who called and two officers responded.  They gave my then-spouse a DV resource booklet which she proudly waved in my face afterward.  Me?  I didn't get one.  I was holding our quietly sobbing preschooler in my arms and an officer asked me to hand him to his mother and "step away".  I tried to comply but he shrieked and clung tighter to me.  What child is terrified to go to his mother?  The officer paused, "work it out" and then they left.  Would I have been arrested or just carted away?

Months later when I got my divorce lawyer, a former officer too, he remarked, "It's policy, resolve the immediate incident by removing one of the spouses and it's always the man."  He was surprised I wasn't arrested or at least separated for things to calm down.