Making a budget work

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My wife is seeking divorce.  I want to save my marriage, and I understand I cannot control that.

My wife and I got married at 19.  We have been married 25 years.  Throughout our relationship she has controlled the finances.  I literally have to account for every penny I spend.  If I spend money without her permission, she gets upset.  I severely under-function in that area, I have a lot of learning to do.

“Abusers may state, even believe, they are the one being abused. As the victim gains strength and asserts their voice, the abuser may feel threatened, like they are losing the control they held in the victim’s life.”

I am worried about how to make our household budget work after she leaves. Up until recently, I was making about $50,000 and she was making $30,000.  (she recently got a new job and is making almost the same as me - I think that is what prompted her moving toward divorce)

I am trying to make the budget work without her income.  Does anyone know of any resources?

I also am working to try to get access to all our accounts.

She has been spending money on a new place, that she hasn't yet moved into.  Does anyone know how that works if an estate splits?  Does the money she spent on the new place come out of her half?

[bugwaterguy]

My wife is seeking divorce.  I want to save my marriage, and I understand I cannot control that.

My wife and I got married at 19.  We have been married 25 years.  Throughout our relationship she has controlled the finances.  I literally have to account for every penny I spend.  If I spend money without her permission, she gets upset.  I severely under-function in that area, I have a lot of learning to do.

“Abusers may state, even believe, they are the one being abused. As the victim gains strength and asserts their voice, the abuser may feel threatened, like they are losing the control they held in the victim’s life.”

I am worried about how to make our household budget work after she leaves. Up until recently, I was making about $50,000 and she was making $30,000.  (she recently got a new job and is making almost the same as me - I think that is what prompted her moving toward divorce)

I am trying to make the budget work without her income.  Does anyone know of any resources?

I also am working to try to get access to all our accounts.

She has been spending money on a new place, that she hasn't yet moved into.  Does anyone know how that works if an estate splits?  Does the money she spent on the new place come out of her half?

[BigOof]

Until the divorce is filed, you and her can spend your money however you/her see fit.

[GaGrl]

As quickly as possible, separate your finances. Get your on checking account and have your pay direct deposited to your account only. Get clear on any credit cards -- are they joint? If so, she can be charging on them, and you could end up liable for all or part of them. Close accounts if necessary.

[Cat Familiar]

My ex told me that he was going to take his name off a joint credit card account. I found out that’s not how it works after he continued to charge tens of thousands of dollars on that account. Close any joint accounts ASAP.

[kells76]

I am worried about how to make our household budget work after she leaves. Up until recently, I was making about $50,000 and she was making $30,000.  (she recently got a new job and is making almost the same as me - I think that is what prompted her moving toward divorce)

I am trying to make the budget work without her income.  Does anyone know of any resources?

Hey BWG, while it's tricky downsizing the household budget, it's do-able. Times were lean, to say it mildly, when DH and I got married (~2 years after his separation and divorce), so I would be more than happy to chat with you about what we did.

Are you a tech-y person? Are you comfortable with apps and/or spreadsheets?

Many people use apps like Mint which automatically track and categorize debit and credit card spending. There is less effort needed from the user but you have to be okay with a 3rd party program "seeing" all your transactions. Plus it does not always categorize transactions correctly, sometimes you have to manually tell it what category something is.

I used a handmade Excel spreadsheet for many years. The plus side of that is that it was customizeable for our exact needs. The downside is that it takes a lot of user input -- not much was automated. I tend towards lower tech and fewer 3rd party apps, so I did like that our banking info was more private. But, it took more time.

Can you remind me, do you own your home? If so, are you still paying a mortgage?

Typically mortgage or rent will be the biggest and most important $$$ item in your budget. For us the next biggest line item is child support, though you will probably not have that. Then it's stuff like insurance, car payment, student loan payment, etc.

One big picture way to divide the budget is into the "required set amount" things like housing, insurance, car payment, loan payment, versus "flexible" categories. Put money towards "required" stuff first. Then, see what you have left over. The "flexible" categories change month to month. Those would be food, clothes, gas, entertainment, travel, etc. The most important of those would likely be food, perhaps followed by gas, then clothes... a lot depends on your job, actually (where you work and what you do).

There will likely be big changes in your "flexible" categories as you transition to one paycheck for a while. You may be making adjustments in how much and how far you drive, what you wear, what you eat, what you do for fun, etc.

Of course, like previous posters said, first separate your income streams and credit cards. Then build from there.

Let me know if you want to talk more about budgeting -- happy to help.

kells76

[bugwaterguy]

Thanks for responding

Are you a tech-y person? Are you comfortable with apps and/or spreadsheets?

I am starting to use YNAB (You Need A Budget)  It is what my wife has used, and I am moving data over

Can you remind me, do you own your home? If so, are you still paying a mortgage?

We do own, and are paying a mortgage.  I am researching refinancing it to both buy her out of the house, and lower the monthly payment.

One big picture way to divide the budget is into the "required set amount" things like housing, insurance, car payment, loan payment, versus "flexible" categories. Put money towards "required" stuff first. Then, see what you have left over. The "flexible" categories change month to month. Those would be food, clothes, gas, entertainment, travel, etc. The most important of those would likely be food, perhaps followed by gas, then clothes... a lot depends on your job, actually (where you work and what you do).

I put a conservative budget together.  This is based on what we have spent in the past, from my wife's records.  She is excellent with money and budgeting (I think).  I am still short about a $1000 a month.  But I don't know what expenses will be reduced without her.  I have two kids, so I am not sure how much less groceries will be.  I am not sure how much gas is hers vs mine.  

This budget is fairly comprehensive, it includes putting money aside for home repairs, car replacement, appliance replacement.  I have learned a great deal from my wife about budgeting.  

As far as "fun" none of that is in the budget right now.  Frankly, I am used to it.  I love our library, and use it for entertainment.  I do not pay for any streaming services.  Video games that I rarely play are old-school emulators that are free.  I take my kids to  free parks and museums.

We have an Emergency Fund, but I don't know how much of that she has taken for her new place.  I also don't know what divorce costs will be.

We are also debt-free, except for the house.  

Of course, like previous posters said, first separate your income streams and credit cards. Then build from there.

I am working on that.


I might be in a better situation than I think I am.  I might just be panicking, because my wife has always controlled the finances, since we got married at 19.  I literally had to account for every penny, and she would get upset if I bought anything without consulting her.  She would often berate me for not buying the right things - wrong brand, wrong store, I should've waited for a sale, I used the wrong credit card and missed out on reward points, etc.   She was literally in tears over me buying a mop when ours broke.  She said "you don't care about money,  I work so hard on our budget and you just throw it away"

I have little confidence when it comes to money.  I am working on that.  I always feel like I am going to mess something up, in part because my wife always told me I was messing things up.  

In hindsight, my wife spent lots of money on herself - and rarely was anything spent on me.  When we had allowance, I would spend it on things for her, and going out to eat (which since I do all the cooking and dishes, brought me some relief)  She would spend hers on herself.  As I look around our house - almost none of the material things are mine.  It is stuff for the household, or her.  I have some comic books in my closet, that were mostly purchased before our marriage.  She has a sauna (that only she uses), 9 sewing machines, tons of fabric and yarn, a huge collection of essential oils, herb-of-the-month club, the list goes on.  When she brought up the idea of purchasing things, I encouraged her to do it - because I thought it might make her happy.  I now realize that the void inside herself cannot be filled with things.

[kells76]

I am starting to use YNAB (You Need A Budget)  It is what my wife has used, and I am moving data over

Though I haven't tried YNAB, it makes a lot of sense to just pick something and go with it. Over time, if you decide you don't like it, you can switch to something else, and you'll know what specific features you really want. Though if you do like it, awesome! It's a win win.

I am researching refinancing it to both buy her out of the house, and lower the monthly payment.

Smart move. Do you think she will be amenable to a buyout? Other members here are much more real-estate savvy than I am, so you may get some feedback from others about the nitty gritty of getting a spouse off the mortgage -- and, what backup options are out there, if she doesn't agree.

I am still short about a $1000 a month.  But I don't know what expenses will be reduced without her.  I have two kids, so I am not sure how much less groceries will be.  I am not sure how much gas is hers vs mine. 

OK, gotcha. So it's not like it's your first rodeo with household budgets, it's more like there are unknown variables, so how do you plan when you don't know... is that closer?

One approach is to make reasonable estimates for her shares, and budget according to those estimates -- at least for starters. Then, maybe ~3 months down the road, after you are living separately, reassess expenses for you and the kids, and rebudget according to the actual values.

It would not be crazy to say that the grocery expenses for you and the kids will be 3/4 of what it was for the 4 of you. That would be a reasonable starting assumption. If you wanted to spend more time fine-tuning that assumption right off the bat, you could consider if she had any expensive food habits (wine, Starbucks, etc) that would put her share of grocery costs at more like 30-35% versus 25%. Or, if she was very frugal with food, you would tweak the assumption down from your starting 25% assumption.

Of course, it's because your kids are S10 and D17 (I think I'm remembering correctly?) that I'd estimate her share to be ~25%. If you had a toddler and a baby it would be very different.

For gas costs, do each of you have your own primary vehicle?

Did both of you commute to work?

Check out this gas cost calculator! I just found it and it's super cool:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/trip/

It lets you enter year, make, model, & options for your vehicle, and enter a one-way trip with stops. It will calculate an estimated fuel cost for that trip.

So, if you want, you can enter vehicle and trip details (i.e. for dropping kids off at school, going to work, errands), and start getting an estimate of how much you'd pay for gas.

Again, after ~3 months or so of new living arrangements, you will have better data and can reassess. For starters, though, you can decide if you want to try these estimates.

...

This budget is fairly comprehensive, it includes putting money aside for home repairs, car replacement, appliance replacement.  I have learned a great deal from my wife about budgeting. 

Always smart to plan for contingencies. I'm glad you were able to gain good skills from your wife.

While it feels risky and often is living on the edge, you may need to "find" some of that $1000 in the home repair and appliance replacement categories -- I mean, not like catastrophic repairs or liveability issues, but stuff like if the toaster breaks, you may need to go without a toaster for a few months. You've probably already thought of that, so I'm just putting it out there, that the first few months to year of living separately won't be ideal from a budget point of view. There will be things that would be "better" to do that you can't, at least not right away (fixing holes in the wall, new microwave, etc). Every little bit does add up.

As far as "fun" none of that is in the budget right now.  Frankly, I am used to it.  I love our library, and use it for entertainment.  I do not pay for any streaming services.  Video games that I rarely play are old-school emulators that are free.  I take my kids to  free parks and museums.

Yup, no streaming, and glad we don't have it. DH's kids at 13 & 15 still love the library -- are your kids into it? Are they "happy enough" with socializing at school and doing parks/museums? Are they doing any extracurriculars which might be impacted by a budget change?

And hey, there's always the off-topic board here for free socialization and entertainment 

We have an Emergency Fund, but I don't know how much of that she has taken for her new place.

Is that a separate bank account? Do you have access?

I also don't know what divorce costs will be.

It depends... we can walk you through as much here as we can... some members do represent themselves and fill out most of the paperwork themselves, but if it is leaning towards high-conflict and custody issues, it is often expensive but worth it to hire a L. There are ways to minimize legal costs and again, if/when you get there we can talk about it.

DH and his kids' mom divorced "on their own" with no lawyer costs, but DH paid for it later to get his parenting time protected. While I don't think it was over $10K it was probably close. I haven't gone back to add it all up, and we got help from DH's folks and my parents.

Remind me, have you gotten any free/low cost initial consultations with any lawyers? Often those 30-60 minute sessions can give you a wealth of info for what to focus on, what to expect, etc, and you aren't on the hook for a retainer (at that point).

We are also debt-free, except for the house. 

Nice. That will serve both of you well. I don't know how to check this (so other voices may need to chime in), but there's no way for her to open a credit card and add you to it without your consent, right?

I might be in a better situation than I think I am.  I might just be panicking, because my wife has always controlled the finances, since we got married at 19.  I literally had to account for every penny, and she would get upset if I bought anything without consulting her.  She would often berate me for not buying the right things - wrong brand, wrong store, I should've waited for a sale, I used the wrong credit card and missed out on reward points, etc.   She was literally in tears over me buying a mop when ours broke.  She said "you don't care about money,  I work so hard on our budget and you just throw it away"

I have little confidence when it comes to money.  I am working on that.  I always feel like I am going to mess something up, in part because my wife always told me I was messing things up. 

In hindsight, my wife spent lots of money on herself - and rarely was anything spent on me.  When we had allowance, I would spend it on things for her, and going out to eat (which since I do all the cooking and dishes, brought me some relief)  She would spend hers on herself.  As I look around our house - almost none of the material things are mine.  It is stuff for the household, or her.  I have some comic books in my closet, that were mostly purchased before our marriage.  She has a sauna (that only she uses), 9 sewing machines, tons of fabric and yarn, a huge collection of essential oils, herb-of-the-month club, the list goes on.  When she brought up the idea of purchasing things, I encouraged her to do it - because I thought it might make her happy.  I now realize that the void inside herself cannot be filled with things.

I'm so sorry it's been like that for you guys. I join your wish that she would be open to DBT and counseling. Nobody wants a marriage to fall apart.

It saddens me that she would be so low in self esteem that she would take it out on you in hopes of feeling better, and it saddens me that you were the recipient of the messages that you were not doing it right with money.

When I read that you are researching refinancing the mortgage, making sure there is money for unplanned exigencies, and are reaching out for feedback on how to estimate unknown budget variables, that sounds like someone who is doing "just fine" with money. None of us here are "mega experts" at finances and budgets. We're all just unique people who do the best we can in the situations we find ourselves in.

Keeping a level head, reasonable expectations, and manageable emotional responses around money will take you far. It sounds like you are well down that road.

Hope you and the kids have a good Saturday;

kells76

[ForeverDad]

We do own, and are paying a mortgage.  I am researching refinancing it to both buy her out of the house, and lower the monthly payment.

This is a good goal.  Except... ponder what you're probably effectively doing... if you refinance under your own name a jointly owned home... you will be the sole person obligated or responsible for payment on a house you own with someone else.  (It takes a legal action, a quit claim deed, to change the ownership of a jointly owned property.  Have a lawyer involved in addressing the legal issues.)

If you were divorcing, I would recommend that it be a legal part of your divorce... so you would have Leverage to ensure you become the sole owner as you become the sole party on the mortgage.

You wrote she's looking for another residence.  The least problematic of all outcomes is that you each become sole owner of separate residences and have separate mortgages.  However, what remains to be seen is whether she would let go of what she probably sees as Her 100% Equity in the joint home.

[bugwaterguy]

If you were divorcing, I would recommend that it be a legal part of your divorce... so you would have Leverage to ensure you become the sole owner as you become the sole party on the mortgage.

She hasn't filed yet, but it looks like divorce is moving forward.  I am acting like it is to be prepared

[NotAHero]

 Close all joint accounts and file for divorce asap. Until then you are liable for anything she spends in most states.

[formflier]

I'm going to agree with others about having separate finances.  As in money you make goes into an account with only your name on it.

Don't give her any money to pay bills...whatever the agreed split on bills, pay your part directly.  

This was a hard  HARD process in my marriage that FFw does NOT agree with, yet it is undeniable that the amount of conflict about money has gone down.  

From my perspective, most of the conflict was about her abrogation of agreements.  If there  is no joint money...there is no requirement for joint agreements.

Last:  Expect making this change to be very hard and lots of "tactics" used to get you back in line.  

Probably best to create a specific thread about doing this so you have "all your ducks in a row".

Not trying to scare you...but letting you know there is a storm brewing that you need to prepare for.

Best,

FF

[bugwaterguy]

I'm going to agree with others about having separate finances.  As in money you make goes into an account with only your name on it.

Don't give her any money to pay bills...whatever the agreed split on bills, pay your part directly. 

There is no agreement yet.  I don't trust myself (yet) to be firm enough to do this without a lawyer.  I want to be fair & reasonable - and I need to protect my kids and myself.

Doing this while still holding out hope is challenging.

Not trying to scare you...but letting you know there is a storm brewing that you need to prepare for.

You are failing at not scaring me.  But thanks for all your help.

[kells76]

I don't trust myself (yet) to be firm enough to do this without a lawyer.  I want to be fair & reasonable - and I need to protect my kids and myself.

This would be a great topic for an initial consultation with a couple of L's. You may be able to get enough info via the free/low cost initial meetings to have confidence in a plan for separated finances moving forward.

Because your W deals with harmfully intense emotions and emotional swings, the things she does with finances will probably not be fair and reasonable when compared to a person with managed emotions. Her intense emotions may pull her towards doing self-protective things that will not be fair and reasonable or protective of what the kids need.

I say all this with the understanding that it's not impossible to reconcile after a period of living apart. Having separate finances and separate living spaces, for a while, doesn't mean that you can't get back together later, after you both do work on yourselves and perhaps in reconciliation with a professional.

That being said, not moving forward with a financial plan (separate finances) that matches reality (separate living spaces) probably won't help.

Have you consulted with any counselors, therapists, and/or spiritual advisors yet? I wonder if it'd be helpful to you to get their perspective on what it's like to hold on to hope for reconciliation while at the same time making practical choices that reflect the "boots on the ground" reality. I'm sure there are some counselors/advisors out there who have seen similar situations and can reflect on their experiences to you.

[bugwaterguy]

Because your W deals with harmfully intense emotions and emotional swings, the things she does with finances will probably not be fair and reasonable when compared to a person with managed emotions.

Yes - that is my concern.  She is very good with finances.  And she has used that to unfairly (in my opinion) benefit her over me and our children.

I say all this with the understanding that it's not impossible to reconcile after a period of living apart. Having separate finances and separate living spaces, for a while, doesn't mean that you can't get back together later, after you both do work on yourselves and perhaps in reconciliation with a professional.

I wonder if being separate will help her see what part of our problems are caused by her?  Or if she will just continue to project and blame?

[PeteWitsend]

There is no agreement yet.  I don't trust myself (yet) to be firm enough to do this without a lawyer.  I want to be fair & reasonable - and I need to protect my kids and myself.

Doing this while still holding out hope is challenging.

You are failing at not scaring me.  But thanks for all your help.

if your soon-to-be-ex is truly BPD, do not expect them to be fair and reasonable with you. 

If you give them half, expecting they'll leave you with the other half, do not be surprised if they take that half, then demand you split the remaining half with them. 

I'd echo what everyone else said: separate your finances as quickly as possible, and get her name off any of your credit cards.  Anything she charges, she'll get to use after the divorce, and you'll be stuck paying for half of it in the property settlement.

My ex-wife charged a $2500 couch before I got her name off my credit card.  I ended up paying for half of it.  We settled our property through mediation, and the mediator's philosophy was: "My time is valuable, and I'm NOT going to sit here and read through the line items on your sheet.  We're doing this 50/50 and moving on."

I ended up with the short end of the stick because I didn't cancel my CC and get her name removed ASAP.

[ForeverDad]

There are three levels of concern regarding credit cards:

• Joint - this type of account is crucial to close.  Some have reported that when they tried to suspend and close their joint account they were told the balance had to be paid off first and before they were able to do that the spouse called the company and asked for the suspension to be lifted.
• You are account holder and spouse is card holder - just call and cancel her card, otherwise she'll keep charging on your account.
• You are card holder and spouse is account holder - this is the least concern since you're generally not responsible for her account.  And you know you won't be devious or spiteful.  Simply cut up your card.

What about you puts you at a disadvantage?  Your sense of fairness.  One common personality trait we see expressed by all members here is that we're Nice Guys and Nice Gals overall.  We're reasonably normal people.  We want to be treated fairly and so we go out of our way to treat others fairly too.  (The old saying, "All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them.")  In other scenarios that is a good thing.  However, that is our "weak spot" when dealing with an acting-out disordered spouse or other person close to us.  We have compassion and empathy.  We treat them fairly but they have "no holds barred" and have no moral compunction about underhanded attacks, lying, obstruction and sabotage.

Be aware.  Beware.

[formflier]

  I want to be fair & reasonable - and I need to protect my kids and myself.

 

Are these two items of equal value to you...or if you could only pick one...which one would it be?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

  She is very good with finances.  And she has used that to unfairly (in my opinion) benefit her over me and our children.
 

Can you give a couple of examples of her unfair use of her financial abilities?

It is likely true on two counts...1.  That she is wonderful with finances and 2.  Has poor executive control/emotional control that might lead her to be "bad" with finances in the context of your relationship.

Said another way...when no emotional pressure is on she is likely a superstar...you need to protect yourself from when her executive functioning has deteriorated.

Best,

FF

[zaqsert]

I wonder if being separate will help her see what part of our problems are caused by her?  Or if she will just continue to project and blame?

We, as the more reasonable one in the relationship, would like to think that the pwBPD will someday, somehow see what they've done to cause problems. We even hope that they will. I've had my fair share of this.

Maybe they will. But if they do, it's likely to be at best short-lived. Most likely, she will continue to project and blame.

I tend to be a fixer by nature. So I have to keep reminding myself to let it go. Any time or effort I might otherwise put into trying to help my uBPDw see reality is far more likely to be a waste of my time and energy. And worse, it's likely to backfire.

[bugwaterguy]

Can you give a couple of examples of her unfair use of her financial abilities?

I have played a huge part in this.  I have enabled her behavior.   

She has the better car, because she needs a comfortable ride due to her chronic pain. (even though I usually do more driving, and have some back issues too)
She has the better phone, because she takes more pictures.  (even though I have to use my phone for work)

Whenever there is anything brought up that might make her physical or mental health better - I have encouraged it, if I thought it might be placebo.  Sauna, inversion table, essential oils, herb-of-the-month club, crafting stuff, sewing stuff, etc.  That is partially my fault. 

As I look around the house, and potentially splitting up property - there is very little that is mine.  A comic collection that was acquired mostly before we were married, and some cookbooks.  That is it.  Her stuff is everywhere.

When we had allowance, I would spend mine on her, or the family - going out to eat, booze, dates, etc.  In my head I justified it, because her love language is material gifts.  All the stuff never fills the emptiness in her.

[BigOof]

She sounds like a BPD Queen.

[bugwaterguy]

She sounds like a BPD Queen.

She seems more like a BPD Waif than a Queen to me.  She doesn't demand the things so much as say that she is in very poor mental or physical health, and these things will solve her problems.  I have went along with that mentality and supported her doing these things. 

The fact that she seems more like a Waif than a Queen gives me hope.  I have enabled her behavior and encouraged her to get "stuff" to solve her problems.  If I change my enabling behaviors, she might see that she can improve herself without the "stuff".    Or not...

[formflier]

If I change my enabling behaviors, she might see that she can improve herself without the "stuff".    Or not...

Perhaps a better way for you think about is..

"If I stop participating in solving her problems, she will likely either decide the problem isn't worth solving or will mature her problem solving skills..by doing it herself."

I say it that way because any progress is going to be super gradual...not likely to have a "oh I see the light" moment.

Much more important to focus on what you do or don't do...that on what she "understands".

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

This has another aspect... Boundaries.  Setting boundaries is hard to maintain and will be immensely difficult at first (extinction bursts) but over time may be more or less accepted (sometimes not so much).  The key is to realize that any exceptions you allow may be perceived as enabling the other to challenge (bulldoze) your boundaries.  Yes, one exception can set you back on an existing pattern or policy,  so be sure you emphasis that the occasional exception is just that, a one-off situation.

You will have to learn that boundaries work a little different in our cases.  The person with BPD (pwBPD) will resist boundaries.  As unbelievable as it sounds, the boundaries are instead for us.  In this way...

Review our topics on Boundaries in our Tools and Skills workshops board.  ( <-- Click on the green phrase)

A very simplistic example could be like this... "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  Do you see?  You can't make a pwBPD do what they refuse to do, but you can establish what your response will consistently be.

[GaGrl]

Let me add to Forever Dad and it's response...

Boundaries are based on your values, so your first work might be getting clear on your values, so you can set strong and workable boundaries.

Example...

"I am financially responsible so that my family/children are secure."

Then the boundary springs from that...

"I do not support spending outside a responsible budget."

Does that make sense?

[bugwaterguy]

Perhaps a better way for you think about is..

"If I stop participating in solving her problems, she will likely either decide the problem isn't worth solving or will mature her problem solving skills..by doing it herself."

I say it that way because any progress is going to be super gradual...not likely to have a "oh I see the light" moment.

Much more important to focus on what you do or don't do...that on what she "understands".

I like your perspective.  My concern is my kids taking the place of me if I am not around, as either a target of blame or a caretaker.  I have a 17 year old who might move into that caretaking role.  I am not sure how to protect them.

I understand progress will be gradual.

[bugwaterguy]

"I am financially responsible so that my family/children are secure."
Then the boundary springs from that...
"I do not support spending outside a responsible budget."

I am not sure what the consequence of that boundary is.  She is currently spending money on a new place.  Until our finances are legally separated, I don't have many options.

She has been controlling of the finances- and done an excellent job of maintaining our budget.  I am slowly try to get access to everything (the other day I literally spent 3 hours on the phone to access one account).  Because of my lack of knowledge in this area, I am moving methodically so I don't screw myself or my kids over.   I am also concerned about legal battles and don't want to do anything that will jeopardize that.

[formflier]

I am not sure what the consequence of that boundary is.  She is currently spending money on a new place.  Until our finances are legally separated, I don't have many options.

While I don't disagree with you getting legal advice prior to separating finances...I haven't heard you say that you have a contract with your wife that you hand over 100% of your money to her..without any say in the matter.

I would hope a lawyer can answer this question for you in about 10 minutes or less. 

So...you have many options, however it will "feel" weird for you to exercise those.  (can you see the difference in how I said it...and you said it?  Do you agree or disagree with my version.)

When can you have a conversation with your L about this.

Best,

FF

[kells76]

I would hope a lawyer can answer this question for you in about 10 minutes or less.

Seconded by me.

This will take likely ~30 minutes start (Google search, narrowing down candidates, writing down name & #) to finish (hanging up the phone after getting question answered).

Let us know if you want any tips on finding a L.

[ForeverDad]

Understand that most family law attorneys handle run of the mill divorces; they're good in most scenarios as far as filling out forms and holding hands.  On the other hand, you'll likely need a more proactive lawyer, one with real experience in the courtroom and at trials.  That should be one of your assessments in interviews, does this lawyer have the experience, skills and strategies that I need representing me?

It has been said that personality disordered spouses are in 10-15% of all divorces.  These cases are the stubborn, obstructed, conflict-filled ones.  Yeah, welcome to our world.