For those who went to trial

[alleyesonme]

Trial in our case is a little over a month and a half away. I'm naturally very stressed out and scared.

For those of you whose custody disputes ended up at trial, do you have any tips for how to handle that final period, both in terms of legal strategy and self care?

[ForeverDad]

My divorce case ended with a trial scheduled but on Trial Day when I arrived at the court house steps (well, if it had steps, it was a newer building) my attorney greeted me with the news she wanted to settle last minute.  (Two year separation and divorce and now she was ready to settle?  No surprise, she had two very favorable temp orders, so why not delay as long as she could?)

We already knew what the Custody Evaluator's report from several months before had recommended, so I had that to reassure me.  When I learned she wanted to settle, I knew it would follow his recommendation.  But I wanted an edge over this 50/50 Shared Parenting option.  So I stated I wanted to be the parent responsible for school, I said it's that or we proceed with the trial.  She resisted but eventually relented.  Both lawyers insisted it meant nothing but I knew better.  I knew if I had that then she couldn't drag me around after her every time she moved (and she did move a few times).  As it turned out, school had agreed to let my son finish his kindergarten school year but they rescinded that when they had one too many incidents with her and I had one day to register him in my own local school.  Ha!  The lawyers were wrong, it actually did make a difference.  Her school would have continued to suffer silently with her if I hadn't stepped forward for school responsibility.

However, post decree I did have court testimony for my Change of Circumstances where I sought full custody.  Then a couple years later I went back and gave testimony (school did too) seeking majority parenting time.

Your lawyer will do a lot of the preparation so follow his/her lead.  You have the details, your lawyer should have the priority of which strategies to use.  As for your nerves, you will know that you've done "your reasonable best".  No one, especially not anyone here, would expect more of you.

That's my pep rally.  Others will chime in with their own thoughts next.

[alleyesonme]

My divorce case ended with a trial scheduled but on Trial Day when I arrived at the court house steps (well, it it had steps, it was a newer building) my attorney greeted me with the news she wanted to settle last minute.  (Two year separation and divorce and now she was ready to settle?  No surprise, she had two very favorable temp orders, so why not delay as long as she could?)

We already knew what the Custody Evaluator's report from several months before had recommended, so I had that to reassure me.  When I learned she wanted to settle, I knew it would follow his recommendation.  But I wanted an edge over this 50/50 Shared Parenting option.  So I stated I wanted to be the parent responsible for school, I said it's that or we proceed with the trial.  She resisted but eventually relented.  Both lawyers insisted it meant nothing but I knew better.  I knew if I had that then she couldn't drag me around after her every time she moved (and she did move a few times).  As it turned out, school had agreed to let my son finish his kindergarten school year but they rescinded that when they had one too many incidents with her and I had one day to register him in my own local school.  Ha!  The lawyers were wrong, it actually did make a difference.  Her school would have continued to suffer silently with her if I hadn't stepped forward for school responsibility.

However, post decree I did have court testimony for my Change of Circumstances where I sought full custody.  Then a couple years later I went back and gave testimony (school did too) seeking majority parenting time.

Your lawyer will do a lot of the preparation so follow his/her lead.  You have the details, your lawyer should have the priority of which strategies to use.  As for your nerves, you will know that you've done "your reasonable best".  No one, especially not anyone here, would expect more of you.

That's my pep rally.  Others will chime in with their own thoughts next.

As always, thank you for your insight and help. From having lived with my ex and seen her behaviors up close, I strongly believe that it's best for our child to be with me most of the time. But I also see the writing on the wall in our county in terms of a bias in favor of mothers, so that may not be a realistic option in our case, which is sad. I often think about your case as an example, as my best course of action may be to get equal time now and then continue to document and push for more in the future.

[ForeverDad]

But there is every reason to speak up that your position is about wanting to be very involved in parenting.  The last thing you want is for court (or your son when he is older) to say, "But why didn't you say so from the start?"

Sure, court may ignore you first time around, often it defaults to cookie cutter standard decisions, but there is always time to lay a foundation for later.  After all, as many here have experienced, likely you will be back in court to seek a fix to an inadequate prior decision.

If only court would listen to us when we remark, politely, "If you don't want to see us again, make an appropriate ruling."

[GaGrl]

I firmly believe that ForeverDad's experience and strategy is the most likely to succeed in all but the most extreme BPD situations. Courts have moved toward a 50-50 default in the past decade, and I believe they think that either 1) the parents will sort out the custody arrangements over the next year or so, amicably or not, but outside of court, or 2) there will be enough discord and misbehavior documented that the next court action will be clear cut.

Frustrating as he! when one parent is personality disordered.

So the strategy is...

Go for as much parenting time and authority (school, therapy, medical, etc.) as you can get under what you know will be the first court decision of multiple to follow.

Adhere to your side of the parenting agreement and document, document, document, document.

Therapy.

File again when the time is right.

[kells76]

Consider having a "documents package" ready to sign on the courthouse steps right before trial -- she may crack under the now-impossible to escape "real authority" looming, and be willing to agree to something just to not go through the trial. Have it be as favorable to you as possible while still including stuff you think would appeal to her. I bet your L can help you put this together, or we could too.

[BigOof]

alleyesonme, unbelievably, I'm now in the same boat as you! Trial, here I come with hours and hours of footage showing dysregulations, throwing things, stalking, lying, and cognitive distortions here, there, and everywhere.

[ForeverDad]

Reality check:  How much time has the court allocated for your trial?  And how much of the list of issues is it to cover?  My divorce trial was scheduled for one full day but at the last moment my ex decided to settle so we were done in a few hours.

If you have tons of documentation, the judge's eyes will probably glaze over and will ask for a limited sampling.  Be prepared for which documentation to select.  Prioritize, don't get lost in the minutia.  If some of it is older, such as over 6 months before the case was started, the opposition object and ask the court to ignore it as legally stale (old stuff).

Often the court will make rulings but ask which lawyer will write it up.  Yours should volunteer, that way you know ex's lawyer will have little opportunity to fill it with curve balls, gotchas, slight changes, etc.

Be prepared that the judge may defer judgment after all is said and done.  Rules may state the judge can take up to 30 days, my last case in court, seeking majority parenting time, took nearly 2 months to receive a decision mailed to the lawyers.

[BigOof]

Good advice, ForeverDad.

We've got two days, two experts, two parents. I'm going for three problems with solutions.

Problem: Adversary suffers from extreme cognitive distortions. Solution: Court-mandated therapy for child and mother.
Problem: Adversary continually lies to authorities. Solution: Gatekeeping order.
Problem: Adversary cannot be trusted with child and child cannot trust adversary. Solution: Invert custody.

[kells76]

Solution: Court-mandated therapy for child and mother.

Separately, right?

Not together?

[BigOof]

They both could use some play therapy, separately.

[alleyesonme]

But there is every reason to speak up that your position is about wanting to be very involved in parenting.  The last thing you want is for court (or your son when he is older) to say, "But why didn't you say so from the start?"

Sure, court may ignore you first time around, often it defaults to cookie cutter standard decisions, but there is always time to lay a foundation for later.  After all, as many here have experienced, likely you will be back in court to seek a fix to an inadequate prior decision.

If only court would listen to us when we remark, politely, "If you don't want to see us again, make an appropriate ruling."

Great points all around. I really think family law professionals are so stuck on the theory that is probably true in 95% of custody disputes - that both parents are relatively normal and functional. It's a shame that they aren't open minded enough to recognize that there are cases that don't fit that description, and need to be treated differently than most others.

[alleyesonme]

I firmly believe that ForeverDad's experience and strategy is the most likely to succeed in all but the most extreme BPD situations. Courts have moved toward a 50-50 default in the past decade, and I believe they think that either 1) the parents will sort out the custody arrangements over the next year or so, amicably or not, but outside of court, or 2) there will be enough discord and misbehavior documented that the next court action will be clear cut.

Frustrating as he! when one parent is personality disordered.

So the strategy is...

Go for as much parenting time and authority (school, therapy, medical, etc.) as you can get under what you know will be the first court decision of multiple to follow.

Adhere to your side of the parenting agreement and document, document, document, document.

Therapy.

File again when the time is right.

That seems to be the case in our county. Not at all what's best for the child, but at least it keeps lawyers, evaluators and judges from actually having to think outside the box for once.

[alleyesonme]

Consider having a "documents package" ready to sign on the courthouse steps right before trial -- she may crack under the now-impossible to escape "real authority" looming, and be willing to agree to something just to not go through the trial. Have it be as favorable to you as possible while still including stuff you think would appeal to her. I bet your L can help you put this together, or we could too.

Great tip - I'll pass that along to my L.

[alleyesonme]

alleyesonme, unbelievably, I'm now in the same boat as you! Trial, here I come with hours and hours of footage showing dysregulations, throwing things, stalking, lying, and cognitive distortions here, there, and everywhere.

I wish you the best! Hopefully all of that documentation pays off for you.

[alleyesonme]

Reality check:  How much time has the court allocated for your trial?  And how much of the list of issues is it to cover?  My divorce trial was scheduled for one full day but at the last moment my ex decided to settle so we were done in a few hours.

If you have tons of documentation, the judge's eyes will probably glaze over and will ask for a limited sampling.  Be prepared for which documentation to select.  Prioritize, don't get lost in the minutia.  If some of it is older, such as over 6 months before the case was started, the opposition object and ask the court to ignore it as legally stale (old stuff).

Often the court will make rulings but ask which lawyer will write it up.  Yours should volunteer, that way you know ex's lawyer will have little opportunity to fill it with curve balls, gotchas, slight changes, etc.

Be prepared that the judge may defer judgment after all is said and done.  Rules may state the judge can take up to 30 days, my last case in court, seeking majority parenting time, took nearly 2 months to receive a decision mailed to the lawyers.

I believe we have just one full day scheduled, but I'll check on that. Great tip about having my L write it up if it comes to that. I'm not sure if it's just because of COVID, but I've heard that our judge sometimes takes over 6 months to rule after a trial.

[GaGrl]

That seems to be the case in our county. Not at all what's best for the child, but at least it keeps lawyers, evaluators and judges from actually having to think outside the box for once.

So in this strategy (get as much as you can in the short-term while planning for the long-haul), the burden becomes getting as much in place that will benefit your child while setting up controls on your STBX's ability to jerk you around.

If you have settlement documents drafted in case of a day-of-trial agreement, make sure the biggest concerns are covered.

What are your priorities?

[alleyesonme]

So in this strategy (get as much as you can in the short-term while planning for the long-haul), the burden becomes getting as much in place that will benefit your child while setting up controls on your STBX's ability to jerk you around.

If you have settlement documents drafted in case of a day-of-trial agreement, make sure the biggest concerns are covered.

What are your priorities?

What's best for our D is for me to have majority time and custody, but I know my ex wouldn't agree to either of those. So for a settlement, the biggest priority would be that I'm the school placement parent, as the schools in the town I live in are better than the schools where she lives.

[kells76]

Can you "gift" her decision-making in a couple of areas that are lower-priority for you (vision? orthodontics? religion?) so she "feels like she's winning" and your chances of getting primary parent (and mental health decision making, perhaps) are better?

[alleyesonme]

Can you "gift" her decision-making in a couple of areas that are lower-priority for you (vision? orthodontics? religion?) so she "feels like she's winning" and your chances of getting primary parent (and mental health decision making, perhaps) are better?

That's an interesting idea. I didn't know you could break it down into that much detail (vision/orthodontics rather than just a big catch-all category of medical). I'll ask my L if there are some areas where we can maybe do that. Thank you!

[BigOof]

alleyesonme, regarding the courts being biased against men, do you have a female or male judge? Is your lawyer male or female? Is opposing counsel male or female?

[alleyesonme]

alleyesonme, regarding the courts being biased against men, do you have a female or male judge? Is your lawyer male or female? Is opposing counsel male or female?

We have a female judge. My ex and I both have male attorneys. Why do you ask?

[BigOof]

Did you consider switching to a female attorney?

[alleyesonme]

Did you consider switching to a female attorney?

My first attorney was female. I wanted to make a change, and we live in such a small town that there weren't that many L's to choose from, so the one I picked (my current one) was who I thought was the best. Unfortunately, my first L being a female didn't seem to make a difference at all.

Do you have a female L?

[BigOof]

In my case, the only female is the defendant. I switched legal teams for this dynamic.