When is enough enough? What was the last straw? Or the clincher to stay?

[WhatToDo47]

For those of you who have decided to end things/that enough is enough, what helped you reach that point? Was it a gradual process or did it happen all of the sudden? You can see my previous posts for more details about my situation or let me know if you want details.

OR

For those of you who did make things work what led you not to give up? Did it work out?

In desperate need of some guidance.

[BigOof]

Openly breaking the law and plans to break the law again.

[WhatToDo47]

She did call the police when I wasn't home and said I was home and had locked her out. Caused quite a scene. Does that count?

[BigOof]

If police are involved, you're eventually going to jail.

Why are you playing with fire? Do you like the drama? Do you need the excitement?

There are serious consequences and costs: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=351828.0

[WhatToDo47]

If police are involved, you're eventually going to jail.

Why are you playing with fire? Do you like the drama? Do you need the excitement?

There are serious consequences and costs: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=351828.0

Ouch, but I guess you're right. I needed that. Thank you. I don't want to go to jail, especially as I have bent over backwards for her to never even make her uncomfortable. To be honest, I hate the drama. She is the ONLY area of my life that is like this. I have stable job, family, friends, mental health. I am so tired of the drama. And I don't want the excitement.

I think sunk cost fallacy and not wanting to give up on her/codependence are what are keeping me involved, plus a shallow physical attraction. But I guess 7 years of relationship doesn't help or matter if I'm in jail.

Thank you for the reality check - I really needed it. I'm going to check out the other thread now. Really appreciate the link.

I will save that thread in my notes and re-read it when I'm tempted to reach out to her or trust her again.

I really wish BPD didn't exist, but it does and I have to live in reality.

Any advice on what to do when she tries to reach out to me/act remorseful/pretend to have changed, etc?

[chinchilla_dad]

I decided I wouldn't take the wife back When I found out She was trying to turn people against me And that what she was actually borderline And not bipolar.  Although that was after the restraining order.  We actually had a very good Relationship for a long time Which is whyI was willing to deal with the restraining order And everyone else who knew her Agreed.

My first borderline Did land me in jail though And managed To get me on Some assault charges And I ended up doing 30 days inside And losing my job And career.

[WhatToDo47]

I decided I wouldn't take the wife back When I found out She was trying to turn people against me And that what she was actually borderline And not bipolar.  Although that was after the restraining order.  We actually had a very good Relationship for a long time Which is whyI was willing to deal with the restraining order And everyone else who knew her Agreed.

My first borderline Did land me in jail though And managed To get me on Some assault charges And I ended up doing 30 days inside And losing my job And career.

That's awful that you had to go through all that. We had a relatively good relationship, too. There were the raging days, suicide attempts, etc, but they were few and far between and seemed to be improving with therapy, until this last doomsday devalue and splitting.

I don't want to lose my job and career and family and everything else besides her. I was always okay with losing everything as long as I had her, but now I can't count on that, and that really sucks.

She's currently trying to isolate me from my family, telling me to sit them down and blame them for ruining our marriage, not teaching me to be a man, etc etc. They have told me that they don't want her around and are scared that she will land me or them in jail. It's a bad situation all around.

[NotAHero]

That's awful that you had to go through all that. We had a relatively good relationship, too. There were the raging days, suicide attempts, etc, but they were few and far between and seemed to be improving with therapy, until this last doomsday devalue and splitting.

I don't want to lose my job and career and family and everything else besides her. I was always okay with losing everything as long as I had her, but now I can't count on that, and that really sucks.

She's currently trying to isolate me from my family, telling me to sit them down and blame them for ruining our marriage, not teaching me to be a man, etc etc. They have told me that they don't want her around and are scared that she will land me or them in jail. It's a bad situation all around.

 If you are a male and she called the cops it’s over …over over and over. Run for your life, literally. There is no ifs and buts. Your very livelihood is at stake. If you have kids then read what I said again but try to come up with stronger warnings.

[WhatToDo47]

If you are a male and she called the cops it’s over …over over and over. Run for your life, literally. There is no ifs and buts. Your very livelihood is at stake. If you have kids then read what I said again but try to come up with stronger warnings.

Wow. And thank you, again. Sometimes it just needs to be drilled into my FOGgy head. Thankfully, I don't have kids. She left about 1 month before we were planning to start trying for kids. I think I just need to re-read this over and over and let it sink in.

In the past, she has tried to accuse and get fired everyone from supervisors, to teacher's, to her brother in law for sexual harassment, groping, etc. I always felt bad for her but now I don't know if any of it is true. I feel so betrayed and lost.

It's so hard talking to friends and family about this, because they just haven't been in my shoes, but it sounds like you have.

I don't know why this is so hard for me to accept. In literally every other area of my life, I don't take these types of risks or tolerate this kind of behavior/aggression towards me.

She has apologized for treating me so cruelly, but I just don't think I can ever trust her again based on everything on this site including your warnings.

[NotAHero]

Wow. And thank you, again. Sometimes it just needs to be drilled into my FOGgy head. Thankfully, I don't have kids. She left about 1 month before we were planning to start trying for kids. I think I just need to re-read this over and over and let it sink in.

In the past, she has tried to accuse and get fired everyone from supervisors, to teacher's, to her brother in law for sexual harassment, groping, etc. I always felt bad for her but now I don't know if any of it is true. I feel so betrayed and lost.

It's so hard talking to friends and family about this, because they just haven't been in my shoes, but it sounds like you have.

I don't know why this is so hard for me to accept. In literally every other area of my life, I don't take these types of risks or tolerate this kind of behavior/aggression towards me.

She has apologized for treating me so cruelly, but I just don't think I can ever trust her again based on everything on this site including your warnings.

 Once she successfully gets you in the clinch of the law she will discard you and play the victim all the way even you will start to believe it. You will have no option but to bang on your head and say how terrible you are then beg for a lesser sentence. Domestic violence does not require real evidence. They will take her word and you will be done for.

 The reason you keep falling for it because normal humans are built to empathize and sympathize. When you see how sorry she is - and in the moment she genuinely is- you tend to believe her. That doesn’t mean anything once she is mad at you again. The worst part is that none of it is real and none of it is about you. It has to do with her and her unresolved childhood issues that she will keep projecting on you.

 Learn from my mistakes and run for the hills.

[chinchilla_dad]

Run.  If they've done it once they will again.

[WhatToDo47]

Run.  If they've done it once they will again.

Hard to argue with that, and I’ve seen her repeat patterns her whole life.

[WhatToDo47]

Once she successfully gets you in the clinch of the law she will discard you and play the victim all the way even you will start to believe it. You will have no option but to bang on your head and say how terrible you are then beg for a lesser sentence. Domestic violence does not require real evidence. They will take her word and you will be done for.

 The reason you keep falling for it because normal humans are built to empathize and sympathize. When you see how sorry she is - and in the moment she genuinely is- you tend to believe her. That doesn’t mean anything once she is mad at you again. The worst part is that none of it is real and none of it is about you. It has to do with her and her unresolved childhood issues that she will keep projecting on you.

 Learn from my mistakes and run for the hills.

That is humbling and scary with DV. The hills are starting to call my name…

“  The reason you keep falling for it because normal humans are built to empathize and sympathize. When you see how sorry she is - and in the moment she genuinely is- you tend to believe her. That doesn’t mean anything once she is mad at you again. The worst part is that none of it is real and none of it is about you. It has to do with her and her unresolved childhood issues that she will keep projecting on you.”

This might be the most helpful advice I’ve received so far. I think that part of the problem is that I come from a very emotionally healthy family. I’m used to people saying what they mean and meaning what they say, and following through on their commitments. Going to save this too to look at when she’s in her “feel sorry for me, I’m so sorry,” modes. A lot of things I’m reading about BPD seem to suggest that they don’t ever apologize/take responsibility. She does, but the issue as you said, it simply doesn’t last. It’s very short lived and then she projects blame outward on me and others, saying that we manipulated her into thinking it was her fault/trying to control her.

[BigOof]

Do some research on the Jodi Arias murder of Travis Alexander and the subsequent trial. Travis tried running.

[WhatToDo47]

Do some research on the Jodi Arias murder of Travis Alexander and the subsequent trial. Travis tried running.

Wow. I literally researched this just a few weeks ago. Not to be overly dramatic, but my wife is almost exactly like Jodi Arias, the same looks, mannerisms, dissociation, lies, jealously, violence, sudden religious “conversion” and fervor. I’ve watched a number of interviews with her and it’s like watching a video of my wife.

The scary part is that the comments on the videos said things like “she is scary, something isn’t right with her, etc etc,” but all I could think is “just like my wife.” What is wrong with me that I don’t see the blinding red flags? I guess that’s an issue for therapy and soul searching

[WhatToDo47]

BigOof, what did you learn from the case? What should I learn/keep in mind to avoid a similar fate? I am concerned because she has hurt our dog, herself, animals in her violent dissociative states. Thankfully she has never hurt me, but I think that’s because I am much bigger and stronger than her.

[BigOof]

You should study the prosecution's and defense's arguments. You might need them in court someday. I'm not joking, trying to be funny, or being flippant. I'm literally using the arguments in my case. There are many ways to annihilate someone. Your strength and size do not matter.

[WhatToDo47]

That is terrifying and humbling. My love for her is beginning to change into a bizarre anxiety and fear. I will study them and pray I never need them. Are there things you wish you did differently during the course of the relationship/aftermath?

[ForeverDad]

Read up on Stockholm Syndrome.  Given time, the hostages can begin to empathize with their abductors, even defend them.  One article I read said the captors brainwashed their captives.  Many have read the infamous account of Patty Hearst.

[WhatToDo47]

Thank you and I will. I miss her so so much, but also she has been gone just long enough to allow some of the fog to lift and I have learned enough here and in therapy to realize that I have been and am in great danger. I think my innate survival instincts are FINALLY starting to wake up, but it’s also terrifying that I am and have been in so much danger. I retained a lawyer today. My immediate goals are to get her off the lease and protect my assets. I expect a return/recycle attempt soon. 4 months ago, I would have been jumping for joy, but now I am putting things in motion to protect myself.

[maxsterling]

I'll be a less extreme voice here...

I echo the suggestion to take measures to protect yourself while you have the space and time to do so.  I think many people here are describing a worst case scenario.  In the case of BPD, having a worse case scenario in the back of your mind is quite reasonable.

BUT - keep in mind people come to this board and post when they are exhausted and have been through hell.  The stories here are therefore typically worst case scenarios.  But, there are plenty of people out there with BPD that struggle through life, but still manage and are definitely not evil people at heart.  In the heat of things, my W can be very cruel, vindictive, offensive, and so on.  Those are maladaptive protective mechanisms, but deep down I know those actions disagree with who she is.  That doesn't make her actions easier to deal with, though, or any less dangerous.  When at the bottom, my W always finds a way to take care of herself.  She always has for 46 years.  For example, if she feels the relationship failing, she will go out and find a job.  She has done so before.  And when she is feeling out of control, she does go and seek help.   Usually she has to be at the very bottom, though.  So in my case - I do expect when/if my wife separate for her to exhibit behaviors that are vindictive, but it would go against her track record to do something truly sinister.  Part of it is that when she is calm, she is capable of recognizing her behavior as wrong - whether she owns up to it or not.  Another part is that she is also smart enough to know she has enough in her history that would quickly become an issue if anyone dug into it.  A dozen stays in mental hospitals.  Multiple suicide attempts.  Unstable employment history.  Also, she knows that she is dependent upon me in order to have any kind of family or children.  She resents it, but she knows she needs me to help with parenting.  The worst I can realistically see happening from my W is stalking or harassing any new person I date or attempts to move the children out of state.  She knows what the line is and knows how/when to "turn it off" because she knows that going too far risks her losing everything.

I'm not saying to re-evaluate your W though a gentler lens - I'm just saying that you know her and we don't - and you need to think about what she is truly capable of.  Look at her past, and you can expect that to be your future.

[WhatToDo47]

I'll be a less extreme voice here...

I echo the suggestion to take measures to protect yourself while you have the space and time to do so.  I think many people here are describing a worst case scenario.  In the case of BPD, having a worse case scenario in the back of your mind is quite reasonable.

BUT - keep in mind people come to this board and post when they are exhausted and have been through hell.  The stories here are therefore typically worst case scenarios.  But, there are plenty of people out there with BPD that struggle through life, but still manage and are definitely not evil people at heart.  In the heat of things, my W can be very cruel, vindictive, offensive, and so on.  Those are maladaptive protective mechanisms, but deep down I know those actions disagree with who she is.  That doesn't make her actions easier to deal with, though, or any less dangerous.  When at the bottom, my W always finds a way to take care of herself.  She always has for 46 years.  For example, if she feels the relationship failing, she will go out and find a job.  She has done so before.  And when she is feeling out of control, she does go and seek help.   Usually she has to be at the very bottom, though.  So in my case - I do expect when/if my wife separate for her to exhibit behaviors that are vindictive, but it would go against her track record to do something truly sinister.  Part of it is that when she is calm, she is capable of recognizing her behavior as wrong - whether she owns up to it or not.  Another part is that she is also smart enough to know she has enough in her history that would quickly become an issue if anyone dug into it.  A dozen stays in mental hospitals.  Multiple suicide attempts.  Unstable employment history.  Also, she knows that she is dependent upon me in order to have any kind of family or children.  She resents it, but she knows she needs me to help with parenting.  The worst I can realistically see happening from my W is stalking or harassing any new person I date or attempts to move the children out of state.  She knows what the line is and knows how/when to "turn it off" because she knows that going too far risks her losing everything.

I'm not saying to re-evaluate your W though a gentler lens - I'm just saying that you know her and we don't - and you need to think about what she is truly capable of.  Look at her past, and you can expect that to be your future.

Thank you and that is helpful. Your wife sounds like mine in many ways. The thing that has hesitating now is her leaving me and filing for divorce, even if I don’t think she’ll go through with it. I never saw her take an extreme action against me, it was always inwardly focused, binge eating, sabotaging a job, suicide attempts, etc.

I always knew she was capable of self harm, but she never did anything before to harm me or the relationship, and that’s what has me so worried. Is this her new way of coping when she dysregulates?

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi WhatToDo-

So many of us, in fact most of us, seem to take on and shoulder a whole lot of blame for how our partners’ destructive, frightening and painful behaviors may have been tempered “if only” we had ...

I’m now almost 2 years out of a 6.5-year relationship with a BPD/NPD man that nearly destroyed everything I knew about myself.  And before that, I was married (19 years) to another disordered man, more on the NPD side with some BPD traits.  Since getting free in February 2020, I have worked hard to understand what on earth happened.  And why/how I *allowed* my life to fall so low.

I made excuse after excuse for my exBF’s horrific behaviors; but the fact remains... he had so many chances to work on himself, to heal himself, to do therapy.  He just didn’t .  He chose not to do ANYTHING about his illness and his cruel side.  But he WAS consistent.  He ALWAYS counted on other people (pronounced “the women in his life”) to carry the heaviness of him.  He believed deeply that his charm, humor and good looks were enough to offset what he actually is.  And I talked myself into it for a very long time.

I say these things to you for a real reason.  I became afraid.  He was very very attached to my dog.  Unusually attached.  For some unknown reason, about 4 months before our relationship ended I had a vision - of him abusing her.  It was like a flash before my eyes, came out of nowhere, and I got a cold chill through my body.  He wasn’t here when it happened.  I had just returned from a trip out of town and he had stayed in my home with her.  I said nothing, but never left him alone with her again.  I had also become very afraid his rages in the last months... I needed our ending to be his idea.  And I waited for that.

You state that your  W has abused your sweet dog and other animals while in some type of altered state.  I find this incredibly alarming.  What are your thoughts on this?  Have you addressed this with your therapist, or with a psychiatrist?  It IS a worthy topic.  And no, your “size” in comparison to your W’s size does NOT matter when it comes to your safety.

If she is not actively seeking therapy to address her severe mental health issues, there is little you can do to improve the relationship.  Because at the core, this is not a “relationship” issue.  She is a very sick woman who needs help in the form of consistent therapy.  You cannot be the only one trying to help her.

She may come back with a condition.  But: A baby doesn’t cure severe mental illness or stop disassociation.  Just like a puppy doesn’t and a guinea pig doesn’t.  Leaning to validate doesn’t cure mental illness; and learning NOT to JADE doesn’t stop suicide attempts or cutting or cure severe mental illness.

I am so sorry to be this blunt, this honest.  But my friend, you cannot love her to wellness.  I tried for years and nothing I did worked.

Nothing and no one says you have to divorce at this point.  But everything should point you toward your safety.  You are permitted to have conditions of her return into your home.  So perhaps it would be a wise idea to consider placing that lease in your name alone.  Then and only then would the decision for her to live there be your decision and yours alone.

I know it’s so late (or early).  I hope I haven’t hurt you with how I’ve approached these things.  That is not my intention, please know that.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[WhatToDo47]

Hi Gemsforeyes,

No need to apologize for the direct approach! That’s what I’m on these boards to get and exactly what I need.
It’s awful what you had to go through, and thank you for sharing your story with me. I can definitely relate.
I am also afraid, even though she isn’t even here anymore. I’m glad your dog is okay.

“You state that your  W has abused your sweet dog and other animals while in some type of altered state.  I find this incredibly alarming.  What are your thoughts on this?  Have you addressed this with your therapist, or with a psychiatrist?  It IS a worthy topic.”

She has certainly done this. It’s terrifying especially because she doesn’t remember what happens afterwards, just that she abused them. I have seen this altered state. Everything changes, her voice, eyes, mannerisms, it’s like a demon has replaced my wife. I have spoken with my therapist and a psychiatrist about it. They both unequivocally said that she is dangerous and that this is highly concerning, and to get out.

“If she is not actively seeking therapy to address her severe mental health issues, there is little you can do to improve the relationship.  Because at the core, this is not a “relationship” issue.  She is a very sick woman who needs help in the form of consistent therapy.  You cannot be the only one trying to help her.”

This is true, and heartbreaking. For years and years we worked together as she sought therapy and worked on herself, and then one day something in her brain just switched, and she gave up on herself, it’s so hard to see her destroy herself and not be able to do anything about it.

“She may come back with a condition.  But: A baby doesn’t cure severe mental illness or stop disassociation.  Just like a puppy doesn’t and a guinea pig doesn’t.  Leaning to validate doesn’t cure mental illness; and learning NOT to JADE doesn’t stop suicide attempts or cutting or cure severe mental illness.

I am so sorry to be this blunt, this honest.  But my friend, you cannot love her to wellness.  I tried for years and nothing I did worked.”

I needed this.

It gives me great comfort to think about putting measures in place for my safety, but not divorcing at this point. I plan to renew the lease in only my name (next month it’s up for renewal).

My current plan is to take care of myself and our pets, not initiate any contact, and prepare with my lawyer to respond if/when she files for divorce. I don’t want divorce, but if that’s where this goes I will be ready for it. Do you think this is a good plan? I’m also going to post an update now in a new thread that I will call “Finally said no to her. What can I expect and what do I do now?”

Thank you all, so thankful and blessed for each and every one of you.

[WhatToDo47]

Also, my current mindset is that she can return if:

- She admits she has a problem
- She commits to therapy
- She acknowledges that if she ever pulls this leaving stunt or becomes abusive again it's over for good

I don't see her meeting these conditions but it gives me clarity and safety to have them. Do you think this is reasonable?

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh my friend... I feel your heart is so deeply IN this and I understand.  Do I ever...

But your “conditions” are paper-thin.  I stammered through these same conditions countless times, followed by countless teeny honeymoon phases immediately followed by more of my exBF’s explosive rage and hate.  All of his promises were just lies that spilled from his mouth and scattered to the floor.  He knew (for a time) he had me right where he wanted me.  And each time when those bitty honeymoons ended, somehow each of his awful leaving episodes were twisted and blamed on me.  And I cowered and apologized.  I apologized.  For what he’d done.

Toward our ending, a series of “small” things happened and I began to write things down.  The truth is they had been happening all along but now I needed to pay attention because I became physically ill.  I wrote down What he said, what he did.  And I was afraid. (My marriage ended years before when my exH threw me across the room).  I started telling the truth to myself and I told the truth to my therapist.  I validated his “fears” and conditions and restrictions, but began being a bit “braver” when it came to asserting myself.  I stopped making excuses for my exBF and I stopped covering for him.  And I waited... it didn’t take that long.

An interesting point is that our disordered partners talk about having difficulty trusting us...While we’ve shamelessly stood by them no matter what the backlash.  I’m not sure how on earth they can ever think we have a drop of trust for THEM knowing WE are the most vulnerable of the two.  I came to believe it was he did not respect me because I apparently had no self-respect remaining.  I think I believe that to this day.

At any rate, I came to understand that each time he came back it was because he NEEDED me.  I was an OBJECT and nothing more.  I would never be anything more than that to him.  He did NOT LOVE me.  He doesn’t have a clue about love.  Not in the way I do, or you do.  I had to stop fooling myself.  I was “functional” to him.  I kept him afloat.  In every way.  I kept him “safe”... from the world, his thoughts, his family, the fact he had no friends.  I made him laugh, gave him intimacy, shelter, financial and other security and forgave him a million times when others would not.  And he took and grabbed and RAGED, and CURSED and clenched his fists, and accused and called me horrid names and stole and lied.  Yes, he stole... my things, money, you name it.  From my home.  From my purse.  I gave him stability and showed him what love is...but he still couldn’t feel it. 

I will likely never forgive him.  This time forgiveness would be a dangerous thing.  I don’t think of him in those terms.  But far worse than that is that I don’t forgive myself.  For what I allowed to happen.  And for this reason alone, THIS REASON ALONE my friend, you’ve GOT to be eyes wide open...BEFORE she does something in your world for which you cannot forgive yourself.

Oh Lord, I’m sorry.  Triggered much?  I guess!

What I’m trying to say through all of this, in a completely clear as MUD way is that it’s vital for you to keep a journal of things to REMIND yourself of things YOU have forgotten and forgiven. And things you NEED to remember.  From here and from what she’s done.  Either wittingly or unwittingly. 

We do our OWN brand of disassociation I think, because of the pain.  We do it, I think, because we need to believe they love us.  Because we need to believe, somewhere deeply inside of us, that there is maybe some divine reason for all of this.  I now am convinced there was not.  Not in my case anyway.  Tho’ I did learn too much.  If that’s a thing for an old girl like me.

And finally, what about a condition of in-patient?  Seems a somewhat logical consideration for a person with her history, doesn’t it?

Sorry for the loong post.

Hugs around you,
Gems

[maxsterling]

I always knew she was capable of self harm, but she never did anything before to harm me or the relationship, and that’s what has me so worried. Is this her new way of coping when she dysregulates?

Probably not.  How long have you known her?

When I met my W, she would tell me stories of exes, crappy childhood, etc.  I viewed those stories through her lens - "Wow, your ex did that?  That's horrible."  My W seemed like a person who got dealt a bad hand and kept finding bad people to associate with.  Sure some of those people were bad.  But many of them weren't.  The BFs that suddenly broke off communication?  Probably trying to save themselves from abuse.  As I re-examine the things she has told me, the pattern with me is probably no different. 

So unless you have known your W since childhood, my guess is that what you are seeing isn't new for her.  It's only new to you. 

[WhatToDo47]

Gemsforeyes,

Thank you for your genuine response. It hit a nerve with me also. I feel the same pain.
I think I am in a teeny honeymoon now, and it would give me hope if I didn’t already know of the horrible storm brewing. She has me apologizing for her leaving, for HER LEAVING, abandoning me, giving me clinically diagnosed PTSD that I never had before. And I am apologizing. It’s sick how good they are at this.
I am going to start writing down what’s happening, and what happened. I have to be brave now, while she is hundreds of miles away, because if I wait for her to be here and then try to be brave, I fear a false DV accusation and jail, she’s all but told me that’s what will happen if I stand up for myself.
The trust thing resonates, too. Last week on the phone she said “I don’t trust any one now, I have a hard time trusting.” I’ve stood by her through fights, firings, suicide attemps, rages, downright abuse of me, then she just “changed her mind” one day and left. And she’s the one with trust issues?
I think she does view me and everyone as an object. You don’t do what she did if you love someone. I certainly wouldn’t do it even to my worst enemy. We will see if she still wants to reconcile when she doesn’t need me/I don’t give her what she wants. I pray not.
I have given her a family she never had, stability, unconditional love, virtually infinite financial supply. I’m tired of pouring my soul into a black hole. I think forgiveness is becoming dangerous for me as well.

“I will likely never forgive him.  This time forgiveness would be a dangerous thing.  I don’t think of him in those terms.  But far worse than that is that I don’t forgive myself.  For what I allowed to happen.  And for this reason alone, THIS REASON ALONE my friend, you’ve GOT to be eyes wide open...BEFORE she does something in your world for which you cannot forgive yourself.”
I pray you are able to forgive yourself one day, know that you did the best you could and you are helping me and so many others. Her conditions are getting really extreme, cut out my family that’s done nothing but support her and me. I just can’t and won’t do that.

I guess I was triggered a bit too…

I’m going to start a journal today, as you suggest.

I definitely dissociated over the years, that was the only way to survive. Since she’s been gone, and with a lot of hard work and therapy, I’ve begun to come back to myself, to reality. I can’t let her take me away from myself and reality again.

You don’t ever need to apologize for a long post! It’s much appreciated and might be a life or death situation for me. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

Inpatient does seem like a good idea, I don’t know if she would commit to that, but in a way that’s comforting to think of me suggesting it, her saying no, and us parting ways knowing I did all I could.
Hang in there, I will, too.

[WhatToDo47]

Probably not.  How long have you known her?

When I met my W, she would tell me stories of exes, crappy childhood, etc.  I viewed those stories through her lens - "Wow, your ex did that?  That's horrible."  My W seemed like a person who got dealt a bad hand and kept finding bad people to associate with.  Sure some of those people were bad.  But many of them weren't.  The BFs that suddenly broke off communication?  Probably trying to save themselves from abuse.  As I re-examine the things she has told me, the pattern with me is probably no different. 

So unless you have known your W since childhood, my guess is that what you are seeing isn't new for her.  It's only new to you. 

Probably not.  How long have you known her?
I have known her 6.5 years, married 5.5.
She had the same stories when I met her, abusive parents and exes, a stalker that we moved out of state to escape (who I never saw and never saw trying to stalk her), rape, assault, etc. I viewed them through her lens, too.
“My W seemed like a person who got dealt a bad hand and kept finding bad people to associate with.  Sure some of those people were bad.  But many of them weren't.”
Yup
“The BFs that suddenly broke off communication?  Probably trying to save themselves from abuse.  As I re-examine the things she has told me, the pattern with me is probably no different.”
I think it’s probably the same. When I met her, she was just off a relationship with an “abusive ex.” The fishy part was that I always asked what she will do if she ran into him, and she didn’t know how to answer. Now I think he was maybe running from her, not the other way around. I know he called the police on her after a suicide threat and wanted her to get treatment, and she didn’t. That’s probably why she split him black. I guess I can expect the same if I insist on her getting treatment.
“So unless you have known your W since childhood, my guess is that what you are seeing isn't new for her.  It's only new to you. “
This is probably right. She has accepted this pattern in her life. I will not, I can not. I won’t perpetuate a cycle of abuse. If she straightens out and acts right, I forgive her, but I am slowly realizing how unrealistic it is to expect that of her.
Thoughts?

[ForeverDad]

I will likely never forgive him.  This time forgiveness would be a dangerous thing.

Many people feel they have to forgive.  But Gemsforeyes makes an astute observation.  There are times forgiving is something a person cannot or should not do.  However, what a person almost always can do is Let Go.

I recall meeting ex's step-sister who had run away at age 16 and never returned.  Her father was dying and he expressed some deathbed sorrows.  She came to tell him he was forgiven for his abuse when she was a child.  I tried to tell her forgiving him for his abuse was not her obligation but I don't think she understood my perspective.