Validation - Running out of things to say

[RobertX]

There is no doubt that using Validation and empathy appears to work and we (my wife and I ) will continue to work hard a getting better at it ...however it feels like we are running out of things to say...I know that sounds as if we are just using a 'technique'...but our son is so intelligent in the way he probes during a confrontation  - he wants us to defend ourselves from his attacks...he appears to love the combat...whilst we are validating him he has now also re-written 'his truth' about his upbringing which is complete nonsense versus reality.  Should we back down and agree to his version of events?  Wont that do more harm than good in the long run?  Do we just allow him to vent in return for a longer term 'better' outcome?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[love never fails]

Others may chime in with specific advice, but I would not agree to something that never happened.  In my experience, that just pushes my DD to make even more outlandish claims.  I also would not JADE-justify, argue, defend, explain.  Like you said, they seem to enjoy the battle-it is my DD's favorite hobby.  I am not sure what is the best way to deal with this-we have a lot of other issues my DD screams and argues about, but the past is rarely one of them (she seems to feel she has enough ammunition in the present that she doesn't need to-she is 18 and still lives at home).

Hang in there.  Participating here is a great first start and remember to take care of yourself and your relationship with your wife first.  Then and only then can you help your son.

Love never fails

[kells76]

Hi RobertX;

Your intuition is right on here:

Should we back down and agree to his version of events?  Wont that do more harm than good in the long run?

I think you understand that "buying" a moment of peace in the short term, through "making the conflict stop" by agreeing to his perceptions, is ultimately unhealthy in the long run. It will be difficult and uncomfortable in the moment to hold on to your integrity in a balanced way, yet I suspect you and others here know that agreeing with his perceptions, even if you don't really mean it, will come back to bite you. He may zoom in on that agreement and hold on to it tenaciously, which would then just create another conflict to argue about -- the new conflict of "you're liars, why did you say you agreed that X happened when you thought it didn't, now I can't trust you".

It also sounds like he's getting something out of the prolonged "discussion" / validation of his feelings. You are doing the best you can by validating that Yes, it's true he feels that way, and yes, if you felt that way, you also would be distressed (or whatever -- I'm just imagining a typical scenario). Yet he wants to extend that interaction for some reason, and like you're saying:

he wants us to defend ourselves from his attacks...he appears to love the combat

Couple of ideas for additional tools to add to your toolbelt:

First of all, you are human, and are limited. You don't have infinite energy and attention for his needs... even if he were "normal". So, at some point, you need the interaction to be done.

Also, if the prolonged interaction is something he really wants, then he can "do the work" to have a topic to discuss... not your job.

Putting those together:

A new thing to try could be the "what new information do you have about this topic" move. pwBPD often rehash the same themes over and over again, wearing down participants with repetition of the same grievances (about the past, about your wrongdoing, whatever). Consider "passing the work back to him" by saying something like "what new information do you have to share with me about X" (or something more in your own words). You can be ready to listen to new information and if there is none, you can say something like "I'm ready to listen to new information about X at lunch today; if there's no new information, I'll be out doing Y" (again, in your own words).

This tool isn't a magic wand, so you can think about if it would be a good fit for your situation and your son's personality. It is effective with some people/topics and not others.

The other thing to try, as simple as it sounds, is leaving.

You can think about if you want to announce it at all -- something like "Hey Son, I have a little time now to listen to you about X, and then in 5 minutes, I'll be leaving for the store". You don't have to stick around to keep validating if it becomes clear to you that it's just an endless rehashing and no real progress is being made. The more you are able to gently yet firmly leave, the more chances he has to learn to regulate himself. Yes, you provide 5 minutes of validation, and after that, you are a human with your own life to live.

Will be interested to hear from you if you think either of these approaches might help.

Cheers;

kells76

[RobertX]

Thank you Love Never Fails and Kells76...this all feels like great advice.  He actually threatened to cut off all ties unless my wife agreed to cut me off and agree to his exact version of his childhood.   I think the use of 'new information' is excellent and we will try this for sure.  Many thanks.

[DancingQueen]

RobertX,
Thank you for bringing up this topic. The responses were helpful for my family situation. I can definitely relate to your post. My perspective and my daughter’s perspective are so very different. I like the suggestion of saying I’d like to hear something new about X. It seems like all we ever talk about is X and I just don’t agree with her version of X.

[RobertX]

DancingQueen - yes indeed it's actually just good to know that there are others who are going through the same thing.  A few years ago I though that by keeping a diary of events it would help show my son the evidence of what we are going through (purchase of class A drugs, overdose, violent confrontations etc) and ensure that he couldn't re-write history or blow up the smallest detail - we were tackling things very logically ...almost pure 'JADE'...turns out we were wrong and that validation and empathy appears far more effective.  It's very difficult though.  We are still walking on eggshells during every conversation.

[clmorsecoded]

Hi RobertX, thanks for bringing up this topic.  I struggle with this and our 17YO daughter as well.  At one point she accused her stepdad of sexually assaulting her, which was investigated by multiple professionals and everyone confirmed it did not happen. In one case, I was actually in the room - he hugged her in his boxers. 

She also accused him of physical abuse when I was literally with them in the room, and it did not happen.  She would push him, try to shove her way into me, hit walls, stab artwork with scissors etc. and she would then say her step dad hit her if he tried to block her from shoving one of us. Her sense of reality is completely messed up. 

I am not fearful of her getting anyone in my household in trouble because the stuff she says isn't true. But it really hurts everyone in our household in the process. 

I agree with those above that say not to agree to your son's reality and don't  let him manipulate you into this.  Take care of you and your wife, and you will be a stronger team for him.  Know you are not alone. 

Kindly, clmorsecoded