The illogic of it all

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

@LDRStrugglebus - glad you find this forum as relatable & validating as I do.

I read this idea somewhere else on this website and it's relevant to your first comment - even though the pwBPD is typically the instigator / abuser, they instinctively adopt the mentality of a victim because victims aren't responsible. Victims aren't to be blamed. Victims don't have to accept accountability or face feelings of shame/regret/remorse/disappointment in themselves. As long as they can sell themselves on the narrative that you're wronging them in some way (no matter how illogical) then they never have to take ownership of the obvious ways they create/perpetuate conflict.

And I can absolutely relate to your reflection that the dissonance is so strong it causes you to question your own reality - your value/worth, your confidence, your ability to be loving, etc.

One of my strongest revelations has been the effect of the repeated cycle of - pwBPD questions my love/character, and then I feel compelled to reassure/demonstrate my love to prove to my pwBPD that I truly do possess all of these positive qualities that everyone in my life agrees I exhibit.

Constantly trying to convince my partner (on at least a weekly basis) that I love her, that she can trust my acceptance of her, that I have no thoughts of leaving her, is extremely draining and it causes us to lose our sense of self. Everyone else knows that I'm an empathetic, benevolent man, but when my partner is constantly questioning it, that can cause me to start doubting myself.

Everything you just said, Good Intentions!

I've wondered though here lately that if they are telling you that they are accepting responsibility for a decision that they have made, but then base that decision on their "facts" that it was all because of a "perceived" slight from you, are they truly taking responsibility or is it still a blame game?

[DogMom2019]

@LDRStrugglebus - glad you find this forum as relatable & validating as I do.

I read this idea somewhere else on this website and it's relevant to your first comment - even though the pwBPD is typically the instigator / abuser, they instinctively adopt the mentality of a victim because victims aren't responsible. Victims aren't to be blamed. Victims don't have to accept accountability or face feelings of shame/regret/remorse/disappointment in themselves. As long as they can sell themselves on the narrative that you're wronging them in some way (no matter how illogical) then they never have to take ownership of the obvious ways they create/perpetuate conflict.

And I can absolutely relate to your reflection that the dissonance is so strong it causes you to question your own reality - your value/worth, your confidence, your ability to be loving, etc.

One of my strongest revelations has been the effect of the repeated cycle of - pwBPD questions my love/character, and then I feel compelled to reassure/demonstrate my love to prove to my pwBPD that I truly do possess all of these positive qualities that everyone in my life agrees I exhibit.

Constantly trying to convince my partner (on at least a weekly basis) that I love her, that she can trust my acceptance of her, that I have no thoughts of leaving her, is extremely draining and it causes us to lose our sense of self. Everyone else knows that I'm an empathetic, benevolent man, but when my partner is constantly questioning it, that can cause me to start doubting myself.

Everything you just said, Good Intentions!

I've wondered though here lately that if they are telling you that they are accepting responsibility for a decision that they have made, but then base that decision on their "facts" that it was all because of a "perceived" slight from you, are they truly taking responsibility or is it still a blame game?

[ForeverDad]

Probably.  When I mention Blaming as a behavior I usually include Blame Shifting too.

[fisher101]

Here’s another thought about *the illogic of it all* is that for us nons, knowing what we know, and expecting them to behave differently than they do—isn’t that the same kind of thinking?

Yes it is illogical. So I agree. But I no longer participate in it. I've made it very clear what behavior I will tolerate and what I won't in the last few weeks. I will not even stay in the room and listen to nonsensical rants. Might sound mean but I'm not in "take it or leave it mode." She also knows that if she chooses to leave it that decision is forever and final.

[T0M]

Yes it is illogical. So I agree. But I no longer participate in it. I've made it very clear what behavior I will tolerate and what I won't in the last few weeks. I will not even stay in the room and listen to nonsensical rants. Might sound mean but I'm not in "take it or leave it mode." She also knows that if she chooses to leave it that decision is forever and final.

I tried this.
But I'm working from home, and I'm sitting at my desk. So I can not leave. I have to send her out, and that doesn't work.
Or most of the time she starts when we are ready to go to sleep. And i refuse to leave the bedroom myself.
Or in the car, that is also a moment when she starts. So what to do when you can not leave?

[zaqsert]

I tried this.
But I'm working from home, and I'm sitting at my desk. So I can not leave. I have to send her out, and that doesn't work.
Or most of the time she starts when we are ready to go to sleep. And i refuse to leave the bedroom myself.
Or in the car, that is also a moment when she starts. So what to do when you can not leave?

It's an uncomfortable spot you're in.

When there's a discussion that I choose to step out of, I tell my uBPDw that I'm stepping out of the conversation or won't continue discussing it. Keeping that part as BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, and firm) as I can.

When I can leave the space, even just go into another room, I do. Even if just for a short while to change the setting. Often enough, she'll keep saying things. I do my best not to take the bait, and keep walking. Sometimes I'll repeat a very short validation, such as "I'm sorry it feels that way" and then repeat that I'm stepping away from the conversation as I continue to move to the other space.

If I can't leave (e.g., dinner with our daughter, in a car) then up to a few times I'll repeat that I won't continue discussing it. Then I'll simply stop responding. A couple of months ago, I was driving in a snowstorm, so that made it even easier to say I'm focusing on the road. There was something that I felt had to be discussed. But knowing we still had a long trip ahead of us, I said I won't discuss it until after we're back at home.

For a long time it felt like it took a tremendous amount of restraint not to say anything. Then over time it became easier. I got more used to the fact that what I say and what discussions I participate in are my choice. Similar to when I get a text on my phone, I have the urge to see what it is. But if I'm focused on something else or spending time with others who I want to be with, the phone can wait.

It still feels somewhat rude when I stop responding, but if I were to continue responding then I'd be incredibly rude to myself and not at all helpful to W.

When I stop responding, W will often escalate her rhetoric. And then eventually she stops.

T0M, remember to put your needs first. We tend to focus a lot on the other person, neglecting ourselves. That hurts us and in turn others around us too. Focus on your needs, be compassionate to yourself, and then in turn that will help you be compassionate to others too.

[PeteWitsend]

I tried this.
But I'm working from home, and I'm sitting at my desk. So I can not leave. I have to send her out, and that doesn't work.
Or most of the time she starts when we are ready to go to sleep. And i refuse to leave the bedroom myself.
Or in the car, that is also a moment when she starts. So what to do when you can not leave?

I think I recall poster FormFlier would take an absolute approach and would literally pull over and leave the car and take a cab home if he had to.  And after a couple times, his W knew he meant business and stopped picking fights on family trips.

In my own experience, it was hard to do that for me.  I would, however, just turn around and walk out of the house when that would start up.  Couldn't always do that, but did imagine to avoid some fighting that way. 

Fortunately in those days, I was NOT working from home, and had professional space from her.  

I don't know what the solution for WFH people is, nowadays.  I guess if I was still married, I'd have a conversation with BPDxw about fighting while I was on the phone for work, or at work from home.  And tell her this was unacceptable and I would lose my job if she kept doing it.

Some BPDers had enough sense to NOT cause their partner to lose their source of income, understanding on some level that would be bad for them too... so they will toe that boundary line (if you're lucky).  

I'm so glad I got out of that marriage before the pandemic hit... I cannot imagine being stuck at home with a pwBPD during shutdown/quarantine