Need Some Support - uBPDgf in jail

[ThanksForPlaying]

This all happened a few hours ago. Just looking for some supportive encouragement getting through this and help staying the course. I've already gotten so much good advice here, so that's not required now (although appreciated).

I was asleep with the baby. pwBPD was out drinking. Two nights ago she came home threatening suicide - "I'm about to jump off this balcony and you don't even care". Then the next night came home at 3am drunk and crying about her own family issues - her mom is uBipolar/uBPD - evil woman - says hateful things and constantly recycles with pwBPD - "you don't even support me when my own mother treats me like s***". Then today started drinking at noon, gone all day, came back after me and baby are asleep - started turning on lights and waking us up. I nudged her away from my lamp so I could turn it off. She became enraged that I "put my hands on her". All the correct DV buzzwords I've heard her threaten me with in the past. She always hints about putting me in jail "because she can". Has called police on me once 7 years ago, and fake-called once a few months ago (told me she called and I sat and waited for police). As I've heard on this board, if it's been threatened or suggested, it will happen eventually. I held my phone and she taunted me "What are you gonna do? Call the police? You'll go to jail. You're a piece of s***. You're gonna die alone you p****." Just incoherent hatred and ire directed toward me. I know it's because she has other problems she's upset about. Our relationship has been relatively ok lately.

I picked up the baby and walked to the other room. She hauled off and punched me in the balls, for lack of a better description. While I was holding the baby. I called the police. pwBPD got on the phone with the dispatcher ranting about how "he's going crazy". I stayed calm. She threw the phone at my head while dispatcher was still on the line. She called my mom, told my mom I was most certainly going to jail and pwBPD didn't want me going to jail so my mom needed to talk to me and tell me to stop the police (or something - not sure what her thought was). Police took an agonizingly long time to arrive. pwBPD had by that time snuggled up on the couch with the baby - totally calm and quiet. Asked me for a blanket which I gave her. Meanwhile I'm shaking, scared of going to jail, scared of the future, distressed over my relationship falling apart in front of me. Police arrive over an hour later. Things are calm. Split us up. I was tempted to downplay what happened. I did in fact downplay much of what happened - "she punched me but it didn't injure me". They discussed amongst themselves and decided to take her to jail. As soon as they said that, she started making allegations that I threw her on the ground. The officer told her that's not what she originally said, and it was recorded on body cam. She will be released later today. She was crying and cursing me as she walked out the door - "I can't believe you're doing this to me - I hate you".

I'm so broken right now. My family came to help and I'm staying with family tonight. I don't feel any sense of "victory" at all. Just sadness. I actually am still scared for my own safety when she is released - she's threatened to kill me if I "ever take her baby away". I told her I'm not doing that - even when she was in handcuffs I was telling her it's ok, she will see the baby soon.

Baby is 4 months old. He's perfect. Loves me, loves his mom. I feel guilt that I brought him into such a bad relationship - but even in hindsight, it seemed to be manageable and just continued escalating toward chaos.

I'm just trying to get through the coming days. Getting a protective order. Moving possessions (she will destroy everything I own if she's able to - she has in the past slashed my wardrobe and furniture with a knife). Just trying to get some sleep and keep reminding myself to stay strong. I'm already feeling like I could just backtrack now and it wasn't all THAT bad. Need to keep moving forward. Hoping it gets easier. Love this board.

[ForeverDad]

This all happened a few hours ago...

Been there, done that.  In my case, it ended my marriage.  It had been headed that direction so it was a shock but wierdly not unexpected.  Just so you know.

I was asleep with the baby. pwBPD was out drinking...

When I called the emergency line, that was what they wanted to know before the officers arrived, were either of us drinking or on drugs.

All the correct DV buzzwords I've heard her threaten me with in the past. She always hints about putting me in jail "because she can".

When the police arrived they interviewed us separately.  I called them but one officer asked me to hand my quietly sobbing preschooler over to his mother and "step away".  He "saved" me when he shrieked and clung tighter to me.  The officer told us "work it out" and they left.  Months later, my newly hired divorce lawyer was amazed, he said the policy in domestic disputes was to cart someone away.

I was tempted to downplay what happened. I did in fact downplay much of what happened - "she punched me but it didn't injure me"...

The officer who took my statement warned me that I'd would feel obligated, manipulated or pressured to withdraw my statement but that that was exactly the wrong thing to do.  He was right, I had to let my spouse face her consequences.

News flash, though she was facing a Threat of DV case, after a few months of continuances (and me enjoying the home apart from her with my temp protection order) the court ruled case law (not written law) determined she was Not Guilty.  A couple years later she was able to expunge the entire case, as though it never happened.

Fortunately, by then our two year divorce case had completed.

I'm so broken right now. My family came to help and I'm staying with family tonight.

Good start, you had trusted support.  It's not over.  Your path has just moved to the next level.

I don't feel any sense of "victory" at all. Just sadness. I actually am still scared for my own safety when she is released - she's threatened to kill me if I "ever take her baby away". I told her I'm not doing that - even when she was in handcuffs I was telling her it's ok, she will see the baby soon.

Beware of the leftover impulses to "fix" things.  Things have changed.  The legal system just got involved.  Possibly the court will be inclined to just let her out.  Your task is to NOT do anything that enables her to avoid her consequences.  Your son is still a babe in arms, you are the responsible parent, he needs you now more than ever.

Sure, ex will probably have some parental contact, preferably under established and professional supervision.  (Sorry you are too involved for you to be a supervisor she will respect and obey.)

Do not decline a temporary protection order.  It will likely be an imperfect help, but it's a good start.  (Do you have an experienced, proactive lawyer now?)

What happened to me was that the court granted me a temp order but declined to specify anything dealing with custody and parenting, it deferred that aspect to family or domestic court.  I failed to handle things in domestic court.  My ex went there and, despite her having a pending Threat of DV case, got a protection order there for herself and our son.

[Notwendy]

While this incident is understandably traumatic, it's an opportunity for you to secure safety for you and the baby, and for her to face the consequences of her behavior and possibly the opportunity for her to get help for it.

That is, if you are honest with authorities about her behavior, and if you don't bail her out or let her back into your home when she is released. ( whether you are staying where you are or go somewhere else). This kind of thing is why there are domestic abuse shelters ( more often for women though), lawyers, and jails.

The penal system isn't perfect, we all know that, but the main reason for jails is to separate people who are a danger to others. Your wife is that.

Bailing her out, bringing her home, protecting her will not protect you or your child. Please allow the system to do that and consider the advice from those who have been in your situation.

[GaGrl]

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this, especially with an infant. Domestic violence often is the point at which clarity comes from the chaos and requires critical decisions to be made.

My husband's ex, following their marriage ( in which she was not violent with him), became increasingly violent with her subsequent partners. She has been arrested three times -- two for threatening a boyfriend with her gun (once actually discharging it), and once for taking a tire iron to a boyfriend's car windshield.

[So many questions]

I might miss some things about my ex, but I do not miss being called the worst things imaginable over the tiniest things.

Sending you lots of love and support as this is going to be a really tough experience for awhile. We’re here when needed!

[alterK]

Been there too. BPD ex had an alcoholic breakdown. Attacked my son's GF first. That was the beginning of a long night. Later came after me with knives twice (missed, fortunately). Busted up the bedroom. Then called the cops to have me arrested. I was preparing myself mentally to go to jail, but to my surprise they listened to me and my son and took her. A condition imposed at her bail hearing, which I didn't attend, was that she not return home.

She had no memory of the night, showed people some bruises on her upper arms from where I, later cops, had restrained her, and filed for divorce. That turned out to be the best possible ending for me, though sadly she went downhill after moving out. Fortunately no young kids involved.

[ThanksForPlaying]

Thank you all for the helpful comments. I'm currently packing up "our" apartment. Movers are coming in two hours. I'm dreading a confrontation if she gets out of jail and shows up when the movers are here. I contacted the correct office about a Protective Order and they are calling me back. It's still only been 12 hours since she went to jail. Coincidentally, I was already scheduled to get a tooth removed this morning, so I went in and did that. And I'm seeing now that that was probably part of the trigger... a "medical procedure" for me where she might have to be a caretaker (even though I didn't ask her to do any caretaking at all).

Lot of stress right now - just trying to get through one hour at a time without having a panic attack. Of course there's a HIGH probability she will be sweet and calm when I talk to her. I feel obligated to answer her phone call if she calls me when she gets out of jail, to give her some logistics (where her car keys are). I know that's not my responsibility, but it IS if I'm the only one who knows. That call will likely devolve into a petty fight.

OK I'm ranting. Re-focusing now. Thanks all.

[ForeverDad]

Do you have someone with you?  Then let your trusted friend or relative take the call and handle passing information.

What I'm very concerned about is that she will try to guilt you into unsupervised time with the baby.  The reality is that without a court order stating otherwise, the parent in possession has the upper hand... gift that away and then you're the one begging.  The fact is that you currently are the one caring for the baby.  That's possession.  She can't force you to hand your baby over.  Even if she calls the police on you, likely the most they can do is plead with you to resolve it peacefully.  Maybe, just maybe, they'll tell her this is a matter for the appropriate court to hold a hearing and issue a temp order regarding custody and parenting schedule.

Consultations with a few experienced family law attorneys can help you determine your standing and guide you to practical options and strategies.

Meanwhile, until you get local legal advice, you would be sabotaging yourself and your parenting if you relinquish your baby.

Oh, it just occurred to me.  Is the baby being breastfed?  If so, then mother can express her milk, refrigerate or freeze it and have it delivered.  That's what millions of working and divorced mothers have done and it works.

[Notwendy]

If she's drinking as much as the last couple of days, I'd consult a pediatrician about whether or not it's wise to breast feed. Also, it seems she's out all day and night- not available for that. If she hasn't been consistently feeding or pumping, I don't think she can use that as a reason.

[ThanksForPlaying]

Good point - she stopped breastfeeding long ago. And I was actually surprised to find that there's really very little effect on the baby from breastfeeding while drunk. It's because the mom's alcohol is 40% or whatever, but the breast milk itself is only equal to the very diluted BAC... Interesting. But I agree, not a great thing to do.

[BigOof]

Consider calling a Domestic Violence Response Team in your area. They're trained members who will help you work through the legal system and help out with the transition, and they'll do it for free.

[PeteWitsend]

Consider calling a Domestic Violence Response Team in your area. They're trained members who will help you work through the legal system and help out with the transition, and they'll do it for free.

Yes, I think ThanksForPlaying definitely needs to do that. 

ThanksForPlaying, I'm concerned for you and your baby after reading through this thread... you're still downplaying her behavior and making excuses for it, instead of aggressively pursuing legal means to keep her away from both of you. 

She's been demonstrating some of the more unhinged behavior I've read on here in a while, and if something bad happens to the baby because you took some half-measures now, thinking you didn't want to come off too strong with her, you'll never forgive yourself. 

[kells76]

if something bad happens to the baby because you took some half-measures now, thinking you didn't want to come off too strong with her, you'll never forgive yourself.

Honestly, I was thinking that, too.

This stood out to me in your initial post:

she's threatened to kill me if I "ever take her baby away". I told her I'm not doing that - even when she was in handcuffs I was telling her it's ok, she will see the baby soon.

Are moms who threaten to kill their baby's dad healthy enough to spend time with a baby?

...

Here is what a "reasonably normal" mom would do, if she were having a really difficult time that was escalating, and if the other parent took the kids for a while:

Even thought she would feel sad and ashamed, she would be grateful that the kids were safe while she took time to get stable. She would be glad that even though she had trouble regulating herself, the kids didn't have to be around it, and were safe from her struggle with making impulsive and harmful decisions. She would do whatever it took to show that she was working on growing and changing, even if it meant "jumping through some hoops" (i.e. supervised visitation etc) to spend time with the kids at first. She'd get help to have a plan to get back to normal with the kids.

Anyone would hope that for their baby's mom.

However, it is dangerous for the baby to spend time with Mom "as if Mom were at Step 10" when Mom is really at Step 1. That is wishful thinking... that "if only my baby's mom could be with my baby, then things would calm down, and she'd improve".

Other "wishful thinking" thoughts might be: "I promised her that she could spend time with the kid, how can I break a promise?" Or "I'm the selfish one for withholding a baby from its mother".

I want to really, really, really encourage you NOT to use "but I promised her..." or "but he loves his mom..." or any other "wishful thinking" thoughts to justify endangering your child. Even though it is not YOU driving drunk or getting arrested, please be aware that if a parent is perceived by authorities (i.e. CPS) to be "not removing child from danger" or "not protecting child", then the child can be taken from both of you. You would not be the first parent here to get close to that situation or actually have that happen, again, I repeat, even though you are not "doing the big stuff".

This isn't to scare you, just to share more information with you so that you can prioritize your baby's well-being.

[ForeverDad]

Another concept to become aware of is that courts may view a parent as two different people... (1) an adult behaving poorly in adult relationships and (2) a parent whose parenting is not necessarily impacted or related to adult behaviors.

That's why you may need to pursue — or at least keep an eye on any possibility of — a legal strategy where mother is not in charge of custody and may even be subject to supervised visitation, even if only temporarily while the court orders an assessment of mother's mental stability and ability to parent.

That's what I didn't know when my life encountered the legal system.  One court granted me temporary protection during the Threat of DV case they had started against my spouse.  Another court, domestic court, ignored all that and issued a temporary order setting her in charge of custody and majority time parent.  When the divorce case began a new temp order was started, with custody and parenting details almost identical to the one before and that lasted unchanged until two years later at the final decree.

You may be thinking, "But I can't do that to her now, not when she's down."  Frankly, though, what about your baby... should you enable the baby to be exposed to someone so out of control?  She is an adult, capable of facing her consequences.  Your baby is defenseless, with you as his best advocate.

[ThanksForPlaying]

She's been demonstrating some of the more unhinged behavior I've read on here in a while, and if something bad happens to the baby because you took some half-measures now, thinking you didn't want to come off too strong with her, you'll never forgive yourself. 

Thank you Pete and others for these comments. One of the reasons I post here and also try to share openly with my friends and family is just this - it's so important to have an external sounding board for what is "unhinged" and what is "normal". Even reading your comment, I'm thinking "come on Pete, it's not THAT bad." But I know I have to chalk that up as one vote in the "unhinged" column (many others have given that input also).

My boundaries have been slowly stretched to unacceptable levels. I need to trust the collective wisdom for now and work on tightening up those boundaries. Several years ago I would never have said this behavior was "not so bad".

[PeteWitsend]

...

My boundaries have been slowly stretched to unacceptable levels. I need to trust the collective wisdom for now and work on tightening up those boundaries. Several years ago I would never have said this behavior was "not so bad".

In this thread, you've been explaining away death threats she made against you.  I would say your boundaries are basically non-existent at this point.  I mean what possible boundary could you even have if someone threatens your life and you're not willing to do anything about it?  If you're dead, you have nothing left... that's it.  And your baby (son?) is left alone with a drunk, violent, extremely borderline mom for the rest of his life.  If you care about him at all, you'll be protecting yourself so you can be there for him.  Like kells said, you need to be there for the baby now.  No one else is. 

my BPDxw did and said a lot of nasty things to me over the 6 1/2 years we were together, but if she ever laid a finger on me, or threatened to kill me, I would have been taking my daughter to a hotel, calling attorneys, and filing protective orders pronto, not waiting until other things got sorted out.  

You need to stop worrying about her condition or her feelings... she's pretty far gone already, and there's no reason to allow her to take anyone else down with her, including you or your baby.  She's either going to wake up and get herself to professional therapy now, or she's going to end up in prison or dead.  Or - at best - in abusive relationships with guys who treat her the same way she's treated you.  

I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh... it's just that reading how passive you've been through all this makes me concerned for you and you baby.   This is serious stuff.  Get out, and fight her tooth and nail until she doesn't get anything more than supervised visits for now.  If & when she can demonstrate she's stable enough to spend time with her baby, you can allow unsupervised visits.  Again: you'll never forgive yourself if something happens that can't be undone.

[PeteWitsend]

One more thing: ignore all the crap about dad's not getting parenting rights, and getting ignored in domestic abuse cases.  YOU have to advocate for yourself, and if you speak up, I promise you people will listen.

I didn't fight for what I should have in my divorce (more equal parenting rights) because I didn't have a good attorney, and I didn't have a very understanding boss, and was worried about how I'd take the burden of more child care on.  And I figured I'd have an uphill struggle anyway, given that my D was young, and I worked more than BPDxw did.  

I was wrong on almost every count there, and now I'm left playing defense when BPDxw says and does things I feel aren't in my D's best interest because I gave into her having primary custody, and the sole decision making power for school attendance because I heard things like "courts favor mom's over dads when kids are young" and took that as a truth, rather than just opinion, like it is.

[GaGrl]

Your wife's condition endangers your child at this point. You are the responsible adult. Time is critical -- the faster you can get a protective order that requires supervised visitation, the safer you and your child will be.

[ForeverDad]

Hi, ThanksForPlaying, I'm replying here since your post below was on a rather generic Depp/Heard topic.

I just had this happen tonight, which brought me here for a dose of support.

uBPDgf got out of 45 day rehab today. For the past 30 days it's been wonderfully stable. 10 minute phone calls at 730pm was our only contact. She was supposed to get out of rehab either today or tomorrow. No phone call at 730pm today so I assumed something was going on. She called at 1030pm saying she just got out at 9pm and went to the grocery store. Then called back at 11pm saying she really got out of rehab at 1pm but they made her go back to sign paperwork. And then she bought cigarettes for people and delivered them back to the rehab center. But it still all doesn't add up. So I'm just slowly letting her spin this "lie". And then she says "oh and also I ate two cheeseburgers".

My assumption here is that she has been drinking and who knows what else for about 9 hours since she got out of rehab. The story keeps coming out in pieces about other things she says she was doing. Who knows if any of that is true. It's like I can hear the falsehoods and omissions being created as she speaks.

The GOOD news is that I have full custody right now and we don't live together. So I don't have to be involved with this. I'm getting too tied up with trying to untangle the lie when I don't need to do that.

The bottom line is that we had a 730pm phone call scheduled for today and she missed it. That's the boundary. I shouldn't talk to her until tomorrow.

Answering her late phone call at 11pm and listening to her long-winded story about where she's been for the past 9 hours is irrelevant. Not a path I even need to go down right now, even though it's frustrating and it makes me feel satisfied if I can untangle the web and know the complete story. Doesn't matter.

I need to focus on the boundary and the consequences moving forward and not get stuck litigating the timeline.

Sadly, it appears she relapsed her first hours after her rehab, though likely she'll deny it.  Statistically, that ought to be a very risky time.  We mourn with you, her life and sober future are in her hands.

Your priority remains your own future and your baby's future.