Parental Alienation - 1000 Little Bricks

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Has your pwBWP been successful in alienating the children from you?

Bill Eddy has a great description of Parental Alienation by high conflict personalities. In short, he says their alienating behavior is akin to building a wall between you and your child using 1000 little bricks of alienation. Each brick is a tiny little action like:

- Badmouthing
- Withholding
- Absconding with the child
- Making your child feel insure around you
- Alienating friends, family, & co-workers
- Lying to authorities
- Projecting, blaming, & denying
- Splitting

Which in their totality ultimately results in your child rejecting you. I'm trying to get a read on how successful a pwBPD can be at this.

Thanks,

BigOof

[BigOof]

Has your pwBWP been successful in alienating the children from you?

Bill Eddy has a great description of Parental Alienation by high conflict personalities. In short, he says their alienating behavior is akin to building a wall between you and your child using 1000 little bricks of alienation. Each brick is a tiny little action like:

- Badmouthing
- Withholding
- Absconding with the child
- Making your child feel insure around you
- Alienating friends, family, & co-workers
- Lying to authorities
- Projecting, blaming, & denying
- Splitting

Which in their totality ultimately results in your child rejecting you. I'm trying to get a read on how successful a pwBPD can be at this.

Thanks,

BigOof

[sterlingblue]

Yes.  I have two boys, ages 11 and 8.  S11 hasn't spoken to me since Christmas and refuses to visit.  I believe it is tearing him up inside.  It is awful.

Fortunately S8 is fine with me so far.  The two boys always had distinct personalities, but I think their ages are a factor.  Had I moved out when they were 8 and 5, I think they both would have been fine.  I regret waiting until recently to separate.

In my case, the alienation started while we were still together, with STBXW frequently undermining my authority and criticizing me in front of the children, especially S11.  This was a major reason I moved out.  Still, I didn't expect this level of alienation after separation.  I should have been better prepared.

[zachira]

"Divorce Poison" is a book that is a great resource for parent alienation.

[BigOof]

sterlingblue, I'm so sorry to hear that. You must be heartbroken.

"Divorce Poison" is good, but not very practical. Its advice is to enroll in an expensive program.

"Don't Alienate the Kids! Raising Resilient Children While Avoiding High Conflict Divorce" is super practical and much more based within the legal system.

[PeteWitsend]

Yes.  I have two boys, ages 11 and 8.  S11 hasn't spoken to me since Christmas and refuses to visit.  I believe it is tearing him up inside.  It is awful.

Fortunately S8 is fine with me so far.  The two boys always had distinct personalities, but I think their ages are a factor.  Had I moved out when they were 8 and 5, I think they both would have been fine.  I regret waiting until recently to separate.

In my case, the alienation started while we were still together, with STBXW frequently undermining my authority and criticizing me in front of the children, especially S11.  This was a major reason I moved out.  Still, I didn't expect this level of alienation after separation.  I should have been better prepared.

If my daughter was refusing to visit, I'd definitely fight it.  You can request the court appoint a 3rd party amicus attorney for the kids, do a custody evaluation, or do a psych evaluation (you'd have to undergo one too).  You have some options here... it sounds like a pretty extreme situation, and I think it calls for a more assertive response from you.

My daughter is a few years younger, and I KNOW her mom has been consistently bad mouthing me since I divorced her a few years ago.  It ebbs and flows, but (for now) my D has seemed to find a way to accommodate it without it affecting her when she visits me.  She did have some stressful visits a few years ago where I could hear her mom's accusations about me leaving, not wanting a family, not cooking her good food, etc.  But I think she's learning not to trust her mom (sadly, but also a good sign she can stand up for herself).

Her T had advised me a while ago, that if/when she confronts me with information that isn't true, or asks if what her mom says is true, to answer honestly, but ask her why she thinks that, or what she thinks about it.  Give her space to have her own opinions and feelings.

He said kids learn at a young age what's believable and true, and what is contrary to their experience, and if her mom tries to "override" her memory, her feelings, and her experiences by lying to her, or saying things my D knows to be false, her mom will only lose credibility with her.  

That's reassuring, but not a guarantee that her mom's efforts at alienation won't someday succeed.  For me, it's a matter of staying vigilant, and being more situationally aware than I'd like to be.  But losing contact with my D is not an option for me.

[sterlingblue]

Thanks, Pete.  There is a 3rd party attorney for the kids who supports my reconciliation with S11, but things have moved extremely slowly with her and the courts, and there is nothing yet in place.  I had to fire my first attorney for being too passive.  My new attorney is better but still not assertive enough, in my opinion, about getting things moving.  Maybe things always move this slowly, but it's frustrating to lose this time with my son.

As far as success rates, I've heard everything from "alienation backfires 95% of the time" to "alienated kids rarely reconcile, and when they do it's years later".  Does anyone know of a reliable data source about how often alienation "works"?  I'm afraid of the answer, but I'd still like to know.

[BigOof]

As far as success rates, I've heard everything from "alienation backfires 95% of the time" to "alienated kids rarely reconcile, and when they do it's years later".  Does anyone know of a reliable data source about how often alienation "works"?  I'm afraid of the answer, but I'd still like to know.

It is really a function of age. Preteen is when alienation is most effective as children start to individuate and develop strong morals. Little children forget the script quickly and have a good time with the targeted parent. Older teens have little morals, individuating anyway, and don't want to be told anything.

The problem you also face is your younger child will start to take cues from his other brother. You need to get out in front of this, too.

Have you considered retaining an alienation expert?

[PeteWitsend]

It is really a function of age. Preteen is when alienation is most effective as children start to individuate and develop strong morals. Little children forget the script quickly and have a good time with the targeted parent. Older teens have little morals, individuating anyway, and don't want to be told anything.

The problem you also face is your younger child will start to take cues from his other brother. You need to get out in front of this, too.

Have you considered retaining an alienation expert?

That's troubling.  Though I think there are so many factors unique to each case here, that I wonder if lumping them all together to come up with general statistics even makes sense? 

I suspect in some cases both parents aren't blameless, and the kids see that, and so it's harder for them to dismiss alienation attempts against one of their parents. 

In other cases, the alienation techniques might be obvious, and kids see right through them, recognizing them as dishonest and lies.  I assume in such cases attempts to alienate backfire. 

The really worrying some thing for me are subtle and devious techniques that really undermine kids' judgment though. 

All these things may occur independent of the age of the children.

[PeteWitsend]

I have a cousin who went through a divorce around the same time I did, and has had ongoing issues with her ex.  He (her ex-H) may not be BPD, but he's certainly got something wrong with him; some narcissistic traits, maybe, in addition to some bizarre social behavior.  He had been physically abusive toward their kids, and for a while was restricted to supervised visits only.  Anyways... she mentioned to me once that when he was calling their kids to talk, he'd sometimes ask them to listen to him very carefully, and then in a low register, repeat over and over to them that they were very special and he loved them a lot, and how no one would ever understand how special they were except him.  She noticed after such phone conversations, her kids would misbehave more, and cop more of a defiant attitude. 

We both agreed that was super bizarre, but clearly he was intentionally trying to screw with his kids & their relationship.  I think if you're not BPD or NPD or otherwise disordered, you really under-estimate the lengths to which people who are will go to attempt to distort and manipulate others. 

This was a wake up call to me that I had to simply remain vigilant on this stuff, and keep somewhat regular appointments with my daughter's T, just to ensure there's another adult in the equation to keep an eye out for red flags.