Lead kids to believe they can have something; ex changes mind

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all. I have kids in elementary school. Somehow I've managed to protect them from my ex-H's dysfunction. In the last few years, he's been relatively calm, but once or twice a year he's unraveled over weeks, kept calling me, etc., then got better again. My kids don't know he's mentally ill, has BPD, or how abusive he was when they were toddlers. (I left when they were toddlers and they see him EOW and he's usually calm at that time).

He used to do things when they were little like cancel their medical appointments. However, all of that has calmed down. They've had the same doctors and schools for many years. Generally I'm pretty careful not to give details too far in advance of other things, like family trips. I give him the 1-month notice in our agreement and that's it. He can't really say  no to trips, but he can do things like call incessantly while we're on a trip; he's done that before.

But basically I have hidden his dysfunction from the kids and they're relatively happy.

Anyway, he's been acting pretty normal for a year and I've been happier than ever in my life. The kids are healthy and have good friends. Considering COVID, we all got through it pretty darn ok.

One of my kids, as noted in a thread below, expressed an interest in a cool new school that's good for her interests. With a financial aid package we got, it'll cost us a little money, but not an unreasonable increase. Ex was supportive.

She went for a trial day a few weeks ago and fell in love with the kids and school even more. We pass the school all the time and she points it out.

At the last minute, my ex is saying no to the school and he doesn't want to contribute. While I could do it totally alone, we might not have much money for extras. The deadline to decide is this week. So we probably can't send her now. Next year she has to change schools anyway so with time to save up, we might be in a better position to go next year instead. But if ex is negative about it, he may not want us to apply again.

I feel terrible that my daughter is going to feel this loss always. Her present school is just fine and she has friends there, but she loves this other one. Sure, she's still young, but I led her to believe she could have something that my ex has now changed his mind on.

This is partly my fault for not continuing to remind her that this might not happen. After she had her school visit, I thought we could do it.

I'm wondering:
-How do I try to help my daughter so she's not as sad about this?
-Has anyone been in a similar situation, having to change a plan because of the other parent?
I take blame for this one. I am going to lose some of her trust now. Usually I'm more cautious about saying yes to things, and I think I got excited about this along with her.
PSSS I have to go in and talk to the school this week and explain why we're not coming too, and I hate that. (Will also ask about chances of applying next year, but not sure how they'll react. Anyone got any advice?)

[Mommeredith81]

Hi all. I have kids in elementary school. Somehow I've managed to protect them from my ex-H's dysfunction. In the last few years, he's been relatively calm, but once or twice a year he's unraveled over weeks, kept calling me, etc., then got better again. My kids don't know he's mentally ill, has BPD, or how abusive he was when they were toddlers. (I left when they were toddlers and they see him EOW and he's usually calm at that time).

He used to do things when they were little like cancel their medical appointments. However, all of that has calmed down. They've had the same doctors and schools for many years. Generally I'm pretty careful not to give details too far in advance of other things, like family trips. I give him the 1-month notice in our agreement and that's it. He can't really say  no to trips, but he can do things like call incessantly while we're on a trip; he's done that before.

But basically I have hidden his dysfunction from the kids and they're relatively happy.

Anyway, he's been acting pretty normal for a year and I've been happier than ever in my life. The kids are healthy and have good friends. Considering COVID, we all got through it pretty darn ok.

One of my kids, as noted in a thread below, expressed an interest in a cool new school that's good for her interests. With a financial aid package we got, it'll cost us a little money, but not an unreasonable increase. Ex was supportive.

She went for a trial day a few weeks ago and fell in love with the kids and school even more. We pass the school all the time and she points it out.

At the last minute, my ex is saying no to the school and he doesn't want to contribute. While I could do it totally alone, we might not have much money for extras. The deadline to decide is this week. So we probably can't send her now. Next year she has to change schools anyway so with time to save up, we might be in a better position to go next year instead. But if ex is negative about it, he may not want us to apply again.

I feel terrible that my daughter is going to feel this loss always. Her present school is just fine and she has friends there, but she loves this other one. Sure, she's still young, but I led her to believe she could have something that my ex has now changed his mind on.

This is partly my fault for not continuing to remind her that this might not happen. After she had her school visit, I thought we could do it.

I'm wondering:
-How do I try to help my daughter so she's not as sad about this?
-Has anyone been in a similar situation, having to change a plan because of the other parent?
I take blame for this one. I am going to lose some of her trust now. Usually I'm more cautious about saying yes to things, and I think I got excited about this along with her.
PSSS I have to go in and talk to the school this week and explain why we're not coming too, and I hate that. (Will also ask about chances of applying next year, but not sure how they'll react. Anyone got any advice?)

[Notwendy]

Finances are a reality with or without a BPD parent, and I think school age children are old enough to understand the basics- if something isn't affordable, one needs to readjust. Yes, kids will be disappointed but it's a bit of reality.

I think first, go to the school and explain why attendance isn't possible this year- be truthful- the reason is financial. Your child loves the school and it's a good fit. She'd be happy to go here but you just can't do it this year. Would they be willing to defer her admission a year, and/or look favorably on her applying again next year? Without saying anything negative about your ex, you can explain that you were expecting a contribution from him but he isn't able to do that.

I think most schools are understanding of families' finances. Who knows? They may readjust the financial package based on one income and not two. At the very least, you will see how they will consider admission for next year.

Once you know that, you can discuss this with your child. When you say "how to help her so she's not as sad"- if she's not able to attend, she will be sad. I know it's hard to see our kids be disappointed but we can't protect them from feeling disappointed at times. Support her with this but she will feel what she feels and help her learn to manage her feelings. You didn't deliberately try to hurt her feelings. You also hoped this would work out.

As to your H's pattern. My BPD mother does this on purpose. She will offer you something, then she changes her mind. As to why she does this? I have no idea. Maybe it gives her a sense of control, but it feels cruel. At this point my kids are used to this behavior. I didn't say much about BPD or mental illness to them when they were little. I didn't want to triangulate. However, at one point she began to do this with them. I could see them tear up when she changed her mind.

We form a relationship with kids/grandkids. They have their own boundaries. When I was upset over something my mother did, I'd hear "oh don't be silly, your mother loves you, and you should love her". Really? This kind of behavior resulted in my kids not being interested in a relationship with her. While you don't want to triangulate with their father- he himself is responsible for his relationship with them.

I know some grown children whose parents are divorced. I suspect the father has NPD. I don't know for sure. He was very controlling- not letting them play with friends on "his weekend" if the friend's mother was friends with his ex wife. He could have afforded to help with college but he chose not to. These kids were motivated to go to college, chose affordable ones and got enough scholarships to go without his help. Due to his controlling behavior, the kids don't feel close to him. I don't think their mother said much- she said she didn't want her kids to dislike their father, but they responded to how he treated them.

I have found personally, to not rely on my BPD mother for anything. If she has any of her finances involved, then she has control. She's known to change her mind. Sometimes she has called to offer to pay for something for the kids. I know not to accept it. My advice to you is to make all decisions within your budget and the legally awarded child support. If your H then chooses to assist financially- great, but if not, you can proceed with your plans regardless.

[GaGrl]

I agree -- there's no way to keep your daughter from being sad about something that didn't work out. Nor should you try to "save" her from disappointment. It's part of life and living, and it's one way children build resilience.

You said that the school had a special focus. Is it something like music, drama, art, STEM studies? Summer camp and then group or private lessons in that area over the next year could help her retain interest and involvement in her special intetest, while not costing as much as tuition.

[Mommeredith81]

Thanks to both of you. You both gave good food for thought. I really got too complacent and thought exH would stick with what he said, but I also probably didn't think deeply enough about all this. This process starts so early in the year, who can know what's going to happen? I'm afraid of saying no (have to give an answer this week) and feeling regrets for a year, and having my daughter so sad over this. She is showing signs she is getting over it already, but any bad day she has in school the coming year, I know she's going to think back to this. I need to do more soul searching about it all.

[Mommeredith81]

Notwendy, another friend who has worked in school admissions gave me similar advice, to go to the school and ask if we can defer for a year or what her chances are next year. This school starts at her grade level next year, so next year would be the ideal year for her to start, and a special year. There won't be as many seats the following year. But it may be a good compromise to try.

I get myself worked into a tizzy over these things. Thanks for your support and ideas. Let me know if you think of anything else.

[Notwendy]

any bad day she has in school the coming year, I know she's going to think back to this. I need to do more soul searching about it all.

How old is your D? There will likely be some "bad days" in any school, particularly the middle school years. My kids are older now but there were cliques, and some drama between the kids at that age. A "bad" day could be that they didn't get to sit with someone at lunch, or a child said something mean to them.

I understand how you feel. I actually made a different decision that my child was disappointed about- changed schools and my child was angry at me because they missed their friends at the old school but also seemed happy at the new school too. As much as we try to make the best decisions, sometimes as parents, we don't always do things perfectly but being a loving and consistent parent is more important I think.

I would encourage you to speak to admissions. Each school is different when it comes to financial aid and admissions- and this applies to colleges as well. I don't know if you submitted a FAFSA or other financial report but I have known of colleges readjusting in a situation where finances changed and a new report is filed. Some schools defer admission. But all is up to the particular school you are looking at- and so speaking to them will know what your options are.

I understand not wanting your child to be hurt or disappointed. We can only protect them from so much. While we hope they don't face adverse situation, I think our best job is to encourage their own resilience and boundaries. You may feel badly about the divorce and a BPD parent and while I agree it's important to protect them from abusive behavior, it's not your job to facilitate a relationship with him and cover up for his behavior. Protect them from any abuse from him but if he's going to disappoint them, they will have their own feelings about this- and boundaries. I know you won't triangulate but also don't invalidate their feelings.

I learned over time that I could not rely on anything my BPD mother says or promises. When I was choosing a college, I made sure I chose one that was most affordable as I could not trust if my parents would assist or not with college costs. I learned to be resourceful, seek out jobs and budget. These are good skills to learn. If you need to rely mainly on the income from child support, then budget this with the kids. He doesn't need to know. When he does decide to contribute- maybe put that away for extras- vacation, college funds- and you will have that there when it is needed.

[Mommeredith81]

Very well said.
My daughter has lots of 'bad days' because she overthinks and always has friend drama and such. I don't want her to remember, each time she has a bad day, I could have been in that other school. (Not that it would have been a panacea by any means.) I hate breaking her heart and also hate that I'm so worried about ex, I'm partly leaning against sending her because of a fear of the unknown.

She doesn't need this other school, just wants it. But I hate the word "never" and I don't want her to think she'll never go if she puts her mind to it.

I'm going to see the admissions folks later so I can assess what her chances would be of getting in if she wants to go next year...but (you seem experienced with this) will they ever want to have us if they know there's some uncertainty? They liked my daughter a lot, sure, but they didn't know about our finances or family situation when they accepted her, and now they do. Do you think a private school cares enough about a student to give them a second chance if they apply again, and really mean it? (She's 9 btw)

[Notwendy]

My experience is at the college level and many colleges are willing to defer admission. In addition, if a student reapplies, I have not ever heard of them seeing this in a negative light as colleges are understanding of changing financial situations. Some colleges do have rules about deferring admission though and some don't defer but are fine with reapplying.

There is one situation where the response is negative, but this doesn't apply to K-12. If a student applies to an early admission college that has a binding agreement ( if they get in, they will attend) and they get accepted, they are expected to accept and withdraw their other applications to other schools. If they then turn the school down for another college, this is violating this agreement. If the student turns out to have unexpected financial issues come up- but did follow the rules, then they need to discuss this with the college- and it becomes a mutually discussed situation and decision. Most important is that they honored their agreement with the college.

I have also heard of students being able to renegotiate financial aid if their finances change.

I don't have experience with this at K-12 private schools. I think they all are different but I don't think it hurts to ask. While they all need full pay students to support the school, some have financial resources to offer aid to students. Again, I think the only way to find out is to ask them.

I do think in the grand scheme of things, 9 year olds may not have the best judgement about their "wants". I did have a child around this age that changed schools. It was more my decision as I felt the teaching there would be better for them. My child had friends in both schools. In addition, there was drama and "bad days" in both schools because this is the age this kind of thing starts. There were good days too. Yes, I feared hearing the complaints and blame "you made me go to this school". You will hear this kind of thing ( and more through the pre-teen and teen age years!). This is the age they do that. Keep in mind that kids and teens need loving and consistent boundaries, even if they get upset with us over them.

[kells76]

I was deeply involved with dance as a kid through college, and when I was around your D's age, or a little older, a few classmates and I -- not the whole class by any means -- were chosen to be in a show with the local professional company. I felt special, noticed, and positively singled out. It felt like validation of the abilities and talent that I hoped I had.

My mom, though, told me I could not be in it. I was so disappointed, and it didn't make any sense to me. It rankled me to know that my friends and a couple of "frenemies" were there getting "noticed" and I was not. My mom didn't talk with me about the "why" at that time.

Later on, I was able to understand why she said no -- it was a show where thematically we would have been representing characters with a seductiveness/sensuality that was not appropriate for children of that age. It wasn't overt, but it was close enough, and my mom didn't want that for me. Although though my mom didn't talk to me about it at the time (and I do think she could have in an age-appropriate way), even if she had, I would still have been so disappointed and angry.

I say this to contextualize that kids of that age -- even if you do "explain" to them why you're saying No, they just aren't wired yet to understand the long term plusses and minuses. You can explain and explain and explain, and even if they could logically get it, and some can, they will still center their own short term disappointment, loss, anger, and feeling of being slighted. It's just what happens, and it is normal and age-appropriate for a 9 year old to be frustrated in that way. Part of our task of being parents & stepparents is to make those executive decisions -- when it's a safety issue or adult issue (i.e. finances, custody agreement, legal stuff, etc), the fact that it doesn't make sense to the child, or that the "making sense" doesn't outweigh the emotion, doesn't mean it's the wrong decision. It's just really hard.

[Mommeredith81]

My gosh, you both helped so much. I have been feeling so guilty about my daughter loving this school and my taking it away from her. It is still partly my fault because i probably shouldn't have showed her so much of it, and didn't get x-H on board early on. But maybe she will be ok. Still, she told her doc tonight she has depression from it. She may say the same to my ex-H. So maybe we will have to broach the topic anyway, but I'm not sure sending her to a new school cures her depression...but it is my fault for leading her on about this school. Still, hearing that she's going to say those things anyway, that is a big help. I think I have to talk to her more though.

[Notwendy]

This sounds like there is more to this situation than the school. While there may be some excellent features to this new school, it seems her current school is adequate for a 9 year old level education. I don't think a 9 year old can fully grasp all the aspects of an education at this age. School to them means seeing their friends, liking their teachers and some favorite subjects and activities.

She may have some ideas about the new school that may not be realistic. In every school there are other kids who she may not like and teachers who may not be her favorite. Maybe she thinks a new school won't have these things.

With her feeling depressed, it makes me wonder if something is going on at her current school that she wants to get away from. Bullying these days can extend to some vicious social media bullying. If that were the case, this could happen at either school since it is virtual. Are there issues with a teacher? Some "mean girls" ? 9 is on the brink of adolescence where this kind of thing starts.

As much as we wish to protect our kids from these kinds of things, I think our best approach is to support their feelings and give them a strong loving foundation home, and assist them in learning the best way to deal with this. First, I would check all social media she may be on and limit it. First I would check it for any cyberbullying and address that immediately. I'd also be sure there were parent controls on it and check it frequently. Ideally the internet/computer/phones would not be used much at this age, but with the pandemic and virtual learning, I think that's been a reality. If she's on a computer or phone, there's potential she's on social media.

I would also ask her what may be going on at this school that she thinks might be better at the new school. If it's social issues, or academic performance, or an activity she wants- this can be addressed by talking to the teacher, supplementing with after school tutoring or lessons in the activity she's interested in.

In addition- you feeling guilty for this. I don't know what your family of origin was like. For me, I tended to over compensate for how I grew up. I have a BPD mother and our relationship has been difficult. I wanted something different with my kids and didn't want them to feel about me the way I felt about her. We aren't perfect at parenting. Our kids will be angry, disappointed sometimes, and critical sometimes. They are kids and sometimes we have to say "no" to them- for their own benefit. Teens especially can be critical as they attempt to assess who they are.

There was a book I read with a comical title that said it best. "Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me & Cheryl to the Mall".

In addition, ( having gone through the college selection process). Kids talk about colleges and schools but a child has no realistic concept of the sum of money needed to pay tuition at their age. This can become very tough during senior year if the culture the child is in aims at the very competitive colleges. A child who doesn't get accepted and/or ends up attending a less prestigious state ( but affordable ) college may feel inferior or excluded. In actuality, once they get to college, there's a mix of students- the very bright, the studious, and kids who prefer to party- at every school. If the school provides the basics- the subjects the student needs to accomplish their major- college becomes more about what the student makes of it than the name/ranking of the college. Over extending the family budget to pay for a school that is too costly causes strain on the family. Finances are a consideration when choosing a school and children can grasp the concept of working within a budget.

If the school your child is currently in can meet her educational needs and is a safe and supporting environment, she's going to be fine. The wish for the other school may be based on something else- social, expectations, wanting to get away from a bully, or "mean girl". I think it may help to explore these possible situations.

And you Mom- hold on for the wild ride of the adolescent years. Yes, my kids got angry at me, disappointed sometimes, had some social drama with "mean kids" and some teachers they didn't like, but they also made good friends, had some great teachers. In addition, I realized that the interactions between me and my mother didn't repeat themselves because we are not the same person. It's OK and sometimes necessary to say "no" to our kids. They probably won't like it. There were also plenty of "yes" as well and lots of love. You can get through this!

[ForeverDad]

This may not apply here, this was about custody, but this is what I remember about my then S9.

We had separated and then divorced when he was getting close to 4 years of age.  At exchanges he would consistent come running to me and jumping into my arms.  Upon his return he would be crying and trying to come back to me.  As the months morphed into years, it wasn't so extreme yet he consistently was happier to come to me than return to her.

Well, due to continuing conflict and disparaging, I had filed for custody and majority time.  ( With the GAL's "split the difference" approach to give us each a partial win, I did get custody but remained at equal time for a couple more years.)  Here's what I wrote years ago, though on a different topic:

I agree with LnL, children of that age are easily swayed...  I recall what happened when my son was 9.  I was seeking custody and had just accomplished getting the court's ruling that there was a Change of Circumstances.  Until then he had always said he wanted more time with me.  Always.  But when that happened and his lawyer (Guardian ad Litem - GAL) was assigned, he returned from his time with his mother and within moments of getting in my car he piped up, "I want 50% time with my mother" - the schedule in place at the time.  He was not advanced enough at that age to use those words.

That was out of the blue, not what this 9 year old would have said historically, so I believed it was at ex's prompting.  I saw it as a time he could be more easily influenced whereas before it was over his head.  A couple years later he was okay overall with me getting majority time.