Nearing the end of the road

[WitzEndWife]

I get what you all are saying and I guess another factor of this is that, while I'm tortured and depressed staying around, I also have been terrified of "doing the thing." I set a date to give myself time to prepare and process as much as I could, and to come up with a plan.

Only recently have I started to gel the plan and started to feel more confident about moving forward. So, maybe I'm making it an excuse that my waiting is about him. It's more about me and my need to set a plan and stick to it.

The good thing about me is that it may take me a while to make up my mind, but once I've made up my mind, it's made. I'm not wishy washy about doing this. I'm more and more sure the more I move toward the date.

Anyone who knows me knows that you cannot push me to do something before I am ready, no matter what. Of course, if he were threatening to me or something, I would leave faster, but most of the time, he's just nitpicky and gaslighting, and he might get angry and yell about something or other if I JADE (always MY fault, of course), but he is typically not a threat to my person. And I have dared him to hit me in his most roaring and rage-filled times when he's laying into me verbally, just to see if he would, and he just calls me "a sick person." At this time, he has not laid a finger on me. I think he more enjoys the verbal shaming and berating because it makes him feel better about himself. Hitting or physically harming me would not achieve the same satisfaction for him. When I decide to go though, who knows?

I do feel like I know what I'm doing and I know my path, even though, yes, okay, I am putting myself through this longer than I should be. But I'd rather go into this feeling confident and secure that I have a plan and that I've told multiple people my plan and they are well prepared for that plan, rather than just doing it at the spur of the moment.

Not everyone will agree with me and that's fine, but ultimately I'm the only person dealing with this particular situation. The point is that I'm getting out, right? After all this time of FOG and feeling horrible, I finally feel as "good" as I'm going to feel about it. I'm finally ready and I think that's a win.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m glad you’re feeling decisive. I can understand what you mention about taking a while to make a decision, but once it’s decided, you’re steadfast. I’m that way too.

Getting all your ducks in a row before you leave takes time and planning. And whether or not he finishes his program, you will feel like you gave him a fair chance to do so.

I think some of us were wondering if you’d really follow through. We’ve seen you  hoping that some external circumstance, such as the time when he was potentially studying an auto repair program away from home, would lead to a possible split.

Here, however, it seems like you are self-initiating the dissolution of your relationship, rather than hoping to get him to do that.  

[formflier]

One    is that I (we) definitely feel a different "vibe" from you.  So if we are "feeling" that through text on a computer screen...what do you think a pwBPD is "picking up"?

Can you remind me again of your status with a therapist?  Still have the same one?  How often?  Do you feel supported there?

Stay strong!

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

I think because he is also becoming more independent with school and his now part-time job, he's also not AS clingy to me as he was, which is to my advantage here. Of course, on his one day off, if I go ride my horse, I now get a litany of complaints about the horse and how I'm neglecting my dog because I am not proactively suggesting we go way out of town to go on an all-day hike with her. The translation, of course, is that he is feeling abandoned himself there and jealous of the horse and the people at the barn.

That being said, I think he interprets my own independence as being due to the horse and not as me gearing up to end things. I'm trying to be as "normal" as possible at home and not change anything I'm doing.

I've been in therapy weekly, this whole time, and my therapist is really the one who has helped me the most in my journey here. This particular therapist I've been seeing for about a year and a half. She and I get along really well and she "gets" me. It really helps to have a therapist that understands and supports you and also calls you out on your BS. As you all know, I've been "stuck" in this for YEARS and now I'm finally un-stuck. 

[formflier]

I am so relieved to read your last post...the part about a 1.5 year relationship with a therapist and that you and therapist are both feeling you are "unstuck".

Speaking for myself...I've been worried about you and also worried about "staying in my lane" as far as advice I give and all that.

I hope your primary source of advice is your therapist. 

These online forums are really better suited to general advice and "batting around" ideas about how to make plans to leave...or really plan out any kind of thing.

It certainly helps me to write out my plans...and then to have a group of people that can read and challenge my plans..super valuable.

Let me finish with another question?

What do you think you need most from us (bpdfamily) over the next couple of months?  What does your therapist think you need in the next couple of months?

Basically...how can we best help?

Stay strong!

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks, FF, and I really appreciate all your help over the years!

I think it will be helpful for me to have support as I go through this from people who understand, people who have been through similar situations. I have no idea what I'm walking into and my plan until then is to kind of build up my "fortress" around myself to help protect me from the inevitable attacks that will come from him. Even though it's a bit heartbreaking, I do thank my lucky stars that I was adamant about not having kids with him. I knew things would not pan out well if that had been the case.

I think the community can support by just allowing space for me here to vent and process what's to come.

[formflier]

  build up my "fortress" around myself 

Yes!  Fortress of planning and wisdom...correct?

I think the "text format" of BPDfamily easily facilitates "fortress building"...are you up for creating a list of things to be protected...and then under each one, list out several things which can be/should be done to protect them?

Probably best to leave the "getting emotionally ready" part to you and your therapist.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

It might be prudent to think of *worst case scenarios* and plan for them. I know it's unpleasant but better to have a plan than to be caught unawares.

When I was in the midst of divorce, one night I came home to my newly built little house, which I’d started after I split up with my ex. He’d been inside, as either I’d left something open or forgot to lock the door. We were still sharing the acreage and he had belongings still left in a trailer, so he did have reason to be there, but not in my house. A pilot light had been extinguished and when I opened the door, the house smelled of propane.

Whether it was intentional or an accident was never determined. However, at that point, a friend coerced me into borrowing a handgun and practicing at a shooting range. That was so out of character for me, but nevertheless, I kept that gun underneath my bed for a year, months after the divorce was finalized.Thankfully I never had a moment where I felt I needed it, but it was there anyway and that gave me some reassurance.

[WitzEndWife]

I'm REALLY good at coming up with "worst case scenarios" in my head. One thought I've had is of him burning the house down before leaving (he made a comment once years ago about the place being a s-hole that he was going to burn down), so I will take anything that matters to me as well as tip off police to at least drive by and check to make sure the house isn't smoking.

Another worst case is him offing himself, but I think having a letter kicking him out and then following up with a PO days later will at least kind of safeguard me from that if it does happen in the house. On the other hand, I really don't think he would do that, but it is definitely more likely that he'd do something to himself than to me.

Which brings me to the final worst case scenario, which is doing something to me. As in, breaking the PO and somehow obtaining an illegal firearm or something else to try to harm me. I should most definitely obtain my own firearm and learn how to use it, even though I have been to the range with him and am terrified of guns. I do have a friend who is an expert marksman and I'm sure she would take me to the range with her.

My gut tells me that he's going to be angry, but, at his very core, he is most interested in self preservation. Unless he somehow takes a nihilistic turn, my instinct is he won't want to break the law in any way that would send him to prison or get him deported, no matter how big a game he talks about defying police, etc. I imagine he will get very nasty in court, maybe even make things up about me, but he will be otherwise compliant. He is emotional but he is NOT stupid. Unless extremely intoxicated (he quit drinking to excess years ago), he definitely understands limits to his behavior.

His core concern will mostly be about being able to care for himself. If I give him some money initially to be able to rent himself a place and get set up, I don't think he will be AS vengeful, although I know he will be vengeful regardless.

[PeteWitsend]

I'm REALLY good at coming up with "worst case scenarios" in my head.

 ...
My gut tells me that he's going to be angry, but, at his very core, he is most interested in self preservation. ...

His core concern will mostly be about being able to care for himself. If I give him some money initially to be able to rent himself a place and get set up, I don't think he will be AS vengeful, although I know he will be vengeful regardless.

I excerpted a couple parts of you post, because I get the sense that you're overthinking some of this by continuing to focus on him & what he'll do.  Protect yourself for sure, but if he's all bark, no bite, don't concede things you need out of concerns for how he will react.  He's going to whine and complain and bad mouth you regardless of how fair you are in the divorce proceedings.  You can't make him happy. 

A mistake I made in my own divorce was giving my ex too much credit, and instead of fighting for things I needed in the long run, like certain parenting rights, I conceded them with a minimal amount of conflict, or "horse traded" them away more cheaply than I should have out of concern for how my BPDxw would react. 

Once you get into court, and away from them, the dynamic really changes.  Consider the following factors that weigh against pwBPD and in favor of those who are not: It costs time and money to fight for more than you're entitled to.  And pwBPD are often not patient enough to put in the time to draft terms for their attorney, draft allegations, respond to discovery requests, and collect bank statements, etc. and add up months of expenses. 

So while the pwBPD might holler about abuse and deception and stolen funds by the other party, when it's time for the rubber to meet the road, they'll likely just let things go, albeit with some grumbling about unfairness and things being stacked against men/women (whatever they are).  Their bark is often worse than their bite.

Plus, if they have a reasonable attorney, that will curb their tendencies a bit as well.  If you want to allege something and actually push that in court as a means to some end (for example, expanded custody rights, or a larger property settlement than 1/2), you need to have evidence that supports your position that will stand up in court.  Whining and complaining, and he said/she said statements do not. 

[formflier]

Hey...so do you want to make a "worst case list" and then see if there are ways to prevent or certainly limit his ability to do (fill in the blank).

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

When it comes to the legal battle, my attorney, who used to be a judge, is pretty confident that I'll come out on top. I'm not really worried about that, but I'm SURE he will throw fits and paint me as a horrible you-know-what to anyone he knows.

That being said, I'm building my emotional fortress to be able to deal with that. FF, I guess I could list out all of the potentially horrible things he could say or do, but also I know I'm never going to be fully prepared for what he would have in store.

Emotionally, I know he is going to paint me as a bad person. So, what can I do? I know he is going to do that, so I need to reassure myself constantly that I'm a good person, that I've done MORE than anyone could ever have expected me to do for him, and that I've hit my limit. And that he has been controlling and abusive for years and I don't deserve that.

It seems so obvious writing it out, but it's way more complex feeling than it is as a logical situation.

[formflier]

Emotionally, I know he is going to paint me as a bad person. So, what can I do? I know he is going to do that, so I need to reassure myself constantly that I'm a good person,

So...I think there is a lot more you can do, especially with time to plan and to work with your therapist.

Let's skip over the "letting him know" plan and assume that has been done.  Doesn't matter if it went well or bad...just that he knows and you can now move on with the next step.

So...my question to you is HOW exactly are you going to know what another person thinks or says about you/to you.  If you no longer live with that person and don't want more contact than is absolutely necessary.

Let's leave it there.  Once you get the list together of how you might have to endure "knowing" exactly what he thinks...then we can use boundaries and planning to essentially eliminate this.

How does that sound?

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

A mistake I made in my own divorce was giving my ex too much credit, and instead of fighting for things I needed in the long run, like certain parenting rights, I conceded them with a minimal amount of conflict, or "horse traded" them away more cheaply than I should have out of concern for how my BPDxw would react.

My magistrates in court always seemed to introduce themselves as "I don't know anything about the past history of this case so let's begin..."  They didn't care how nice or fair you are nor how mean the ex is.  They allow the parties to do a lot of bad stuff, well, as long as it doesn't becomes something "actionable".  The person behaving poorly seldom gets much in the way of consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets much credit.

So your Nice Guy or Nice Gal sense of fairness and niceness falls on deaf ears, certainly with your ex but also to some extent with the court.  As long as you are not behaving badly yourself, then you're free to protect yourself and your rights.

Divorce, by its nature, is a controversial matter, after all, one is a plaintiff and the other is a defendant.

[WitzEndWife]

So...my question to you is HOW exactly are you going to know what another person thinks or says about you/to you.  If you no longer live with that person and don't want more contact than is absolutely necessary.

Let's leave it there.  Once you get the list together of how you might have to endure "knowing" exactly what he thinks...then we can use boundaries and planning to essentially eliminate this.

How does that sound?

I think I can do that. I'll have to talk with my therapist about what that looks like. I'm sure I will get a barrage of texts and messages that include all of the worst insults he has for me: I'm old/used up, inconsiderate, unhinged (when defending myself against him), I'm going to leave him for [insert the most insulting and hyperbolic stereotype of a person here], etc. No matter what he says, I'm going to have to fortify myself to say, "That stings, but it's untrue." No matter what.

[formflier]

  I'm sure I will get a barrage of texts and messages that include all of the worst insults he has for me: I'm old/used up, inconsiderate, unhinged (when defending myself against him), I'm going to leave him for [insert the most insulting and hyperbolic stereotype of a person here], etc. No matter what he says, I'm going to have to fortify myself to say, "That stings, but it's untrue." No matter what.

Hey...perfect...PERFECT example!

Who controls whether or not you see incoming texts to your phone?  (note..I did NOT ask who controls what texts his phone sends...although that is a good thing to clarify)

Best,

FF

[formflier]

  I'll have to talk with my therapist about what that looks like. 

100% agree!  Whatever strategies/ideas we "find" on BPDfamily should be discussed with your T.  Important pick a strategy with your T and ALSO pick actions that support the strategy...and to avoid actions that "counter"...your well thought out strategy.

Best,

FF

[PeteWitsend]

When it comes to the legal battle, my attorney, who used to be a judge, is pretty confident that I'll come out on top. I'm not really worried about that, but I'm SURE he will throw fits and paint me as a horrible you-know-what to anyone he knows.

...

Just remember you still have to be your own advocate throughout the process.  All attorneys get bored of routine cases, and things tend to slow down after initial filings are made, and that's the time you need to stay on the ball and make sure nothing is slipping through the proverbial cracks. 

AND be sure to Focus only on the material results, not what people are saying or thinking.  Those things do not matter.

It's simpler for you since you don't have children with him & you didn't have a very long marriage, so there's less entangling the two of you than in other cases.  I imagine you just want it over with & without any ongoing obligations to him, which should be doable, given your situation.

Just beware of him trying to open joint accounts, taking out loans under your name, or blowing money really quickly; the day after I filed, my soon-to-be-ex quickly ordered a new $2300 couch on my credit card before I had a chance to close it.  Stuff like that.  Ask your attorney what you can do to monitor it.

You also can't control what he says and thinks about you, and it's better to just ignore it.  Don't burden your attorney with it... just costs you more money.  Tell a therapist if you feel you need to. 

In my own case, I was pleasantly surprised how many people took "my side" in the divorce, meaning they refused to go along with BPDxw's attempts to badmouth me. even couples that BPDxw served as the meeting connection stayed cordial to me, much to her chagrin.  And in fact, a couple of them even reached out to let me know my Ex was trying to force them to take sides, and they were not giving into her.  It told me a lot about who was a decent person and who wasn't.

Eventually, BPDxw moved to a very rural area to get away from it all.  She couldn't handle her own social scene knowing no one wanted to engage with her in her own vindictive campaign. 

[ForeverDad]

I think I can do that. I'll have to talk with my therapist about what that looks like. I'm sure I will get a barrage of texts and messages that include all of the worst insults he has for me: I'm old/used up, inconsiderate, unhinged (when defending myself against him), I'm going to leave him for [insert the most insulting and hyperbolic stereotype of a person here], etc. No matter what he says, I'm going to have to fortify myself to say, "That stings, but it's untrue." No matter what.

My ex did that too in the final months.  And of course got worse once we separated.  That was one of the reasons I was relieved to be the plaintiff in my divorce, I was the one trying to get away from an unhealthy relationship.  Her lawyer had no way to claim I was the controller or abuser, I had filed to end it.

A lawyer may tell you that in court it doesn't make a difference whether you're a plaintiff or a defendant, it just depended who filed first... but emotionally I was so glad I was the plaintiff.

You can picture yourself as having an invisible "force field" umbrella to protect yourself and deflect all the attacks.  Whatever mental gymnastics or exercises work for you.

[formflier]

Might be a good idea to do a "freeze" on your credit.

Maybe close to time you need to "inform" him you can report your cards lost and have them send out new ones...anything with your name or joint.

Come up with a plan on "closing" joint credit so he has no access.

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

I'm definitely going to close the joint account we have (remember when he took a chunk of money out of it and said he would replace it? Ha - there's like $28 in it now) and replace any cards I have, as annoying as that is. I have to change passwords to any accounts he might have access to and all of that.

I will have to check with our insurance regarding anything he might try to do to the house. Since he is the primary name on the insurance account (even though I pay for everything - he set it up), I don't know what would happen if he destroyed things or tried to burn the house down (worst case, wild scenario).

There are a bunch of technical holes I need to plug for sure.

[formflier]

Hey...did you ever think through the question on who controls what texts appear on your phone?

Hoping we can take some stress and worry off your plate..

Regarding insurance, probably best to start shopping for something new.  I would ask your insurance and also I would ask your lawyer how destruction by him would be handled.


Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I second formflier. Get your name on the insurance policy ASAP. It’s your house, right?

[WitzEndWife]

Well, it's technically OUR house because his name is on the loan, even though *I* pay for everything. The home insurance gets paid through the loan, so that makes things complicated. I will have to find out through the insurance agency and the lawyer what will make sense.

It's funny, I thought if I kept our finances separate, we would not have that complicated a divorce, but things got tangled up anyway. It's hard not to when you have a controlling and financially abusive partner.

[PeteWitsend]

I second formflier. Get your name on the insurance policy ASAP. It’s your house, right?

Well... wait a sec.  If he damages everything in the house, does this make him more likely to potentially get in trouble for insurance fraud or not?  

or maybe if he threatens to destroy everything she can more credibly bluff him that his name's on the insurance, and it's only going to hurt how he comes out of the divorce.

If keeping him from torching everything is the goal, maybe this is better, assuming Witzendwife can still file a claim if he does/ is still on the insurance.

Just my opinion here: His anger is going to be entirely focused on witsendwife.  So as long as she takes efforts to keep out of harm's way, I don't think he's going to go completely "scorched earth" here, and destroy the house

Presumably, his own financial interests in the divorce settlement are at stake in the house.  So if he damages its value, he's only hurting himself.  he may very well smash and destroy any personal property she leaves in the house, and break a few things, but I don't expect him to smash up all the drywall or anything like that.

My fiancee has a friend that just went through a divorce with a guy who was possibly NPD; definitely not a stand-up guy and he's definitely lied through his teeth about his income and assets throughout the process.  

He was staying in their second home while things went down.  and this 2nd home was going to be hers (the house had been in her family previously, but since they bought it as a married couple it was subject to the divorce settlement), BUT she would have to buy him out.

Well, She had already removed any personal belongings at my advice, but left all the furniture and fixtures like window blinds and curtains there.  She didn't expect he'd take the time to really do anything to that stuff.

When she eventually got back in the house, it was completely bare... no furniture, no curtains, no blinds no rugs, nothing.  he either tossed or sold EVERYTHING out of spite, but didn't damage the house otherwise, which would have only reduced the price she paid him.

[formflier]

Just my opinion here: His anger is going to be entirely focused on witsendwife.  So as long as she takes efforts to keep out of harm's way, I don't think he's going to go completely "scorched earth" here, and destroy the house
 

Certainly it's possible to work out this way, yet generally pwBPD go back to things that worked for them in the past..when they are angry and want to lash out.

He has "already crossed the line" of destroying personal property and damaging the house...so there is really no "barrier" to him doing that again.  It will just be a "normal" behavior for him..since he has done so before WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE.

At the end of the day, there is no way to know for sure.

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

I will have to check with our insurance regarding anything he might try to do to the house. Since he is the primary name on the insurance account (even though I pay for everything - he set it up), I don't know what would happen if he destroyed things or tried to burn the house down (worst case, wild scenario).

One of our members faced a very similar scenario, though both of them were on the homeowners insurance, and theft was the claim, not destruction... so get legal advice now.

My ex ran away back in 2007. She took both of our boys (7 and 5 at the time). I went to a friends a week later and came home around 2 am. Ex took most of the things in the house. She took all the door locks too so I went to my brothers that night. I returned two days later and the house had new locks. We were going to court so I waited until then. The court gave me the house since ex left. That is considered abandonment in legal terms. Ex wanted me removed but that didn't go her way. The next day she showed up with the police, She convinced them I had to vacate the property. I literally called my attorney in the driveway and gave the phone to the police. Ex said she misunderstood what the judge said.
A few weeks later I received a letter from our homeowners insurance. I had to read it three times because I couldn't believe what it said. Apparently ex filed a claim and said I emptied the house and made it look like she did it. The letter said, since both our names were on the insurance, that you can't rob yourself and then make a claim. It took three times before it sank into my head and then I laughed so hard my sides hurt.
We finally divorced in 2012. She filed in 2007 but kept stalling things in court ? I will never understand that. During equitable distribution she claimed we had 1.2 million in assets that I took from the house. Fortunately, when I got access to the house in 2007 I found a disposable camera. I had the photos developed and one was a uhaul truck in our driveway. I went to uhaul , told the guy we lost the receipt, and needed it for our taxes. He gave me a copy. Ex also rented a storage unit for all the things.
We were still friends on facebook in 2007 and she started posting pictures of her new apartment. Every photo had things from our house. I printed them all out. Her petition for equitable distribution listed things she claimed I had taken back in 2007. It was four pages long and in her handwriting. The photos showed, if I recall correctly, about 70 % of the stuff on her list. I actually wrote the reply to her petition. I agreed with her 1.2 million evaluation and said she could keep it all and just give me my half in cash. It honestly was worth no more then $25,000. My lawyer liked it so much we went with that. We had sold the house and had the money in an escrow account. Because of the photos and ex's paper trail, her attorney wanted nothing to do with going in front of a judge. She took ex out of the conference room. When they came back we settled for what I actually wanted. Her attorney did not want to get in front of a judge...

[PeteWitsend]

Yeah, I think she definitely should talk to her attorney about this.  I'm not sure how it shakes out, or what the risks are.  

But I just don't see any way to accomplish switching the insurance  without tipping her husband off that divorce is coming, which she's hoping to avoid.  

Plus She's already on the insurance, if I read her post correctly.  Not sure being the primary name changes anything.  

if insurance companies look at destroying your property the same as they do theft of your own property, it's possible he could destroy or damage things and they wouldn't cover it, but again... since it sounds like he's going to need the property settlement in the divorce for support, since he's barely employed and has no career, and so he's not going to damage his own interests here, unless he is just completely insane, not just BPD.

[PeteWitsend]

Short of employing the legal equivalent of a blitzkrieg (i.e. changing locks, hiring security, and getting a temporary restraining order blocking your Ex's access to the home), I really don't thing it's possible to eliminate the risk they break/steal/destroy things.

And how many people even have property to protect worth the cost of the "Blitzkrieg" above?

And how common is it for a spouse on the receiving end of a divorce to destroy the same marital estate they are entitled to half of?  I've heard of spouses blowing money to minimize the assets they have to share, but straight up destroying a house... is that common?

I think you be brave and move through it, and you can only control yourself.  So keep out of harm's way, and let the courts and lawyers do their jobs.  

personal property is all replaceable, and preserving it is not worth the cost of staying in a miserable marriage.  

[ForeverDad]

We have only our opinions, past experience and suggestions as peer support.  So... bring a copy of your insurance paperwork to your lawyer and you'll get experienced legal advice, even if it too is a (legal) opinion.

Be sure that before you leave you take photos of everything in the house and/or a video on a walk through.

Also, stbEx can be advised by your lawyer after/when notice is served that if he damages anything in the home it may not be covered by insurance claims.