Exhausted Trying to figure out next steps

[rum2020]

Need outside perspective any advice would be appreciated. We have been together 9.5 years married for 5. Me 39F him 43M I was trying to be supportive while using the SET communication technique. Here was an exchange we had yesterday by email. I am going with ADHD since he was “diagnosed” with that (telemedecine) however most likely occurring with BPD/NPD.

Could I have communicated things better? I always seem to make him defensive.

Me: I can see how frustrated, angry and depressed you are right now in life. Like nothing can go right no matter what you do. It seems like everything is against you. That must be so hard to deal with. I love you and see how much of a special person you are. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.  I know that therapy and meds were expensive and annoying, however if you are interested maybe he are some other resources to look at. (Linked three websites, one on low tolerance frustration, one for an adhd workbook for me and one for adhdcoaches.org)

Him: If it bothers you so much that I show my frustration I will try to keep it inside. And trust me by the time I do show I am frustrated I have tried to bottle it up. I can look into stuff but I hate doctors and have no luck with them. My stomach still hurts, felt like crap last night and the stupid NBA PLEASE READ wouldn’t work. Next time I can just go downstairs so I don’t ruin your night. I know you care, and I don’t want to make you mad or unhappy. So not really sure what to do.

Me: No, keeping it inside is not okay, you have every right to feel whatever emotions you are feeling. If you have no problem with the amount and the way you get frustrated and angry, then I am the problem. I want to spend time with you and show you compassion when you have stuff going on, and when things get too much for me, like when things are slammed, or thrown, or when things are said like “where’s your brain at” I’ll go downstairs and take a break since I am the one having issues.

Him: I don’t like getting frustrated or never having things go my way but everything I have tried doesn’t work. I just deal with it and it’s been this way my whole life, nothing works. Not sure what I said where is your brain, but I think it was supposed to be funny. I try not to take my frustration out on you. I don’t want my issues to make you unhappy, so I’ll go downstairs or leave to help. If me being like this is causing you pain or unhappiness then maybe we need to talk. You don’t feel comfortable talking to me in person and always send emails, but text can come across wrong. Our relationship is not getting better. I just want you to be happy.

Me: what have you tried? Have you taken courses on anger management or on communication? Have you really given therapy a chance? I am trying, there were things I needed to learn, I did therapy, I have read books on communication and books on how to deal with angry people. Do you want to meet me halfway and do some of the work you need to do?

Him: do you think your books on communication actually helped?

Me: yes, I learned to try to focus on the other person, I learned the differences between sympathy and empathy and how empathy is much more effective though much harder. I learned how some of the things I said or did could be considered invalidating and how important it is to be validating. I learned how what people say sometimes are their self-protection mechanisms at work and are not really about me. I learned different ways to handle criticism. I am still not a perfect communicator and will never be but I am glad to learn the things I did, especially things that were making it worse. I know you think talking through email is not effective but since it gives time for consideration and breathing, i can say what I really want to say and not feel like I am reacting in the moment.


That was the end of the emails. It was tense  and he was quiet when I got home. I told him I wasn’t trying to start a fight. He said I know. And that was the end of it.

Now I am thinking of talking to him in person by saying this:

I love you and I will always love you. We need to make this decision together. If you want to go to marriage counseling I will go and try as hard as possible, we need to split the costs and both commit to it. If you do not want to try counseling and do not want to continue then I am okay with that decision as well. What are your thoughts?

I am tired and emotionally raw, and there is always so much tension. Part of me thinks it’s in my head and I can just accept it and learn to be happy. But I don’t know if I have the strength to set better boundaries at this point.

[Mommeredith81]

 "I think it was supposed to be funny."

What he said isn't funny.

It's not you. You are trying to take the blame because he makes you feel bad. I don't know that taking the blame will help him. But it seems like you are the one trying. He says medicines and doctors don't help him. That sounds like giving up too easily.

I'm sorry you're dealing with. It's exhausting, but I know you want to give it your best and know you tried. I can see there's some love there but you shouldn't have to walk on eggshells or be afraid.

Is he violent? Do you feel safe?
From the emails it sounds like he is trying, but probably not enough.

[rum2020]

He's has never hit me, but he loves throwing things and slamming things when he is angry. I told him once I was scared because I didn't know how far he would go when he gets like that. It just never is his problem. He thinks I can't communicate and that "I never listen" and that is why we have problems. I learned a lot since I posted here I think a year ago, and sometimes it seems like if you learn the communication techniques, emotional distance and set boundaries it can work. But then he gets critical and judgmental of everyone, it is so weird to listen to him berate the neighbor for not taking his advice about the weather, etc. There is definitely a point of no return when you realize there are significant mental health problems and that there is nothing you can do, but it is hard when you are stubborn and it can be crazy-making if they just won't accept that they have things they need to work on. I am getting tired of cycling through knowing I need to leave to thinking I can totally do this and stay.

[ForeverDad]

Many new members shared when they arrived that they "stayed for the kids".  Which means the marriage would have ended sooner but for their children.  (By the way, staying for the children is not a good strategy since it multiplies the number of persons suffering the other parent's poor behaviors.)

There are no children in the marriage, so thankfully there are no custody or parenting issues.  Since you have concluded that a 6 year marriage with you hasn't improved his behaviors and he isn't inclined to do the hard work of therapy, etc... what are you staying for?

[rum2020]

I guess it just feels hard to give up, to finally and truly accept defeat especially when it comes to someone I love and a life I had invested in. As sane or not as that is.

[Cat Familiar]

Me: I can see how frustrated, angry and depressed you are right now in life. Like nothing can go right no matter what you do. It seems like everything is against you. That must be so hard to deal with. I love you and see how much of a special person you are. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.  I know that therapy and meds were expensive and annoying, however if you are interested maybe he are some other resources to look at. (Linked three websites, one on low tolerance frustration, one for an adhd workbook for me and one for adhdcoaches.org)

Unsolicited offers to help and sharing of resources seldom goes well with pwBPD. To accept advice and help, they must admit they have a problem, which is very painful for them to do. They already have tremendous shame and self loathing and really don’t want to communicate that with their romantic partners.

Him: If it bothers you so much that I show my frustration I will try to keep it inside. And trust me by the time I do show I am frustrated I have tried to bottle it up. I can look into stuff but I hate doctors and have no luck with them. My stomach still hurts, felt like crap last night and the stupid NBA PLEASE READ wouldn’t work. Next time I can just go downstairs so I don’t ruin your night. I know you care, and I don’t want to make you mad or unhappy. So not really sure what to do.

Black and white BPD thinking: It bothers you so much. I won’t show my frustration. I hate doctors and have no luck with them.

It does seem like he wants to not upset you with his behavior, but is unable to control his frustration.

Me: No, keeping it inside is not okay, You are telling him what is OK and what is not OK.  you have every right to feel whatever emotions you are feeling. If you have no problem with the amount and the way you get frustrated and angry, then I am the problem. Don’t accept responsibility for things that aren’t true.  I want to spend time with you and show you compassion when you have stuff going on, and when things get too much for me, like when things are slammed, or thrown, or when things are said like “where’s your brain at” I’ll go downstairs and take a break since I am the one having issues. No, you’re not.

Him: I don’t like getting frustrated or never having things go my way but everything I have tried doesn’t work. I just deal with it and it’s been this way my whole life, nothing works. Black and white BPD thinking. Not sure what I said where is your brain, but I think it was supposed to be funny. I try not to take my frustration out on you. I don’t want my issues to make you unhappy, so I’ll go downstairs or leave to help. If me being like this is causing you pain or unhappiness then maybe we need to talk. You don’t feel comfortable talking to me in person and always send emails, but text can come across wrong. Our relationship is not getting better. I just want you to be happy.

Me: what have you tried? You’re starting to come across as argumentative. Have you taken courses on anger management or on communication? Have you really given therapy a chance? I am trying, there were things I needed to learn, I did therapy, I have read books on communication and books on how to deal with angry people. Do you want to meet me halfway and do some of the work you need to do? Yikes, this would piss me off.

Him: do you think your books on communication actually helped?

Me: yes, I learned to try to focus on the other person, I learned the differences between sympathy and empathy and how empathy is much more effective though much harder. I learned how some of the things I said or did could be considered invalidating and how important it is to be validating. I learned how what people say sometimes are their self-protection mechanisms at work and are not really about me. I learned different ways to handle criticism. I am still not a perfect communicator and will never be but I am glad to learn the things I did, especially things that were making it worse. I know you think talking through email is not effective but since it gives time for consideration and breathing, i can say what I really want to say and not feel like I am reacting in the moment. This is a lot of Justification. Remember Don’t JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).

That was the end of the emails. It was tense  and he was quiet when I got home. I told him I wasn’t trying to start a fight. He said I know. And that was the end of it.

Now I am thinking of talking to him in person by saying this:

I love you and I will always love you. This is a big promise. Are you sure about this? If you’re not, then best not to promise. People with BPD can sniff out incongruency. We need to make this decision together. If you want to go to marriage counseling I will go and try as hard as possible, we need to split the costs and both commit to it. If you do not want to try counseling and do not want to continue then I am okay with that decision as well. What are your thoughts?

I am tired and emotionally raw, and there is always so much tension. Part of me thinks it’s in my head and I can just accept it and learn to be happy. But I don’t know if I have the strength to set better boundaries at this point.

You’re trying too hard. Part of what’s exhausting you is to attempt to deal with him as an emotionally healthy person. Accepting that he’s not and that you need to focus on yourself, rather than trying to change him will give you that needed strength to set better boundaries. In addition, you are crossing his boundaries by trying to assist him with suggestions, articles, and then taking responsibility for his bad behavior.

Let him be him and work on you. If he is behaving in an unpleasant way, just let him go downstairs until he works through whatever is bothering him.

[Cat Familiar]

Have you read https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries ?

[Ozzie101]

Hello, rum.

So much of what you've written is familiar to me and my situation with my uBPDH. I don't have a ton of advice because, honestly, I'm still in the thick of it. But I know what you mean about it being hard to give up. Boy, do I know what you mean.

Also, my H has a tendency to yell and throw things. A couple of months ago, he put his hands on me (not hitting, but physically grabbing to keep me from leaving). I mention that because I want to make sure you're taking care of yourself and doing what you can to feel safe. I can talk more about it, but don't want to overwhelm you.

He, too, has turned things around on me, said things that almost seem designed to make me feel guilty. He complains that doctors and meds don't work.

For a long time, I felt like I was constantly pleading with him, taking all blame on myself, doing everything possible to soothe him. It doesn't work. What's really troubling him, the root of the problem, isn't you/me. It's within him, buried deep where we can't reach it. Cat is right. Focus on you, your boundaries and making yourself strong. In my case, part of that has been learning that it's ok for me to leave the house for a night or two. But it may be something different for you.

Anyway, keep posting, and hang in there. We've got you.

[Mommeredith81]

Rum, I can relate to all of what you said. I know there is love there. It's frustrating because you can see the person he *would* be, if not for the episodes of anger, throwing things, etc. I'm glad he hasn't hit you, but that does sound scary, and I'm guessing you're worried you could get hit with something someday, if not his fists. Relationships are investments and I'm sorry for the spot he has put you in.

Trying to figure folks like him out, and all of the ways we could respond, and what would result, IS exhausting. I still have to do it long after our divorce because we're coparenting.

I guess you have to figure out how far you're willing to go, what you want him to do, and which sacrifices to make. He seems to have slightly more self awareness than what we see around here (I rarely see any of people's SO's or exes taking any blame) so that's hopeful, but probably not enough.

[Hope4Joy]

Are you ok without marriage counseling? What would you do to help your situation if he does not agree? How does he handle boundaries?

My husband refused counseling for years. I just left our home a week ago and magically we have a session scheduled Monday. I think I made the right move for me, I can’t say it’s right for you. I’m getting the chance to set boundaries I desperately needed.