Continuing attempts to communicate

[WitzEndWife]

So, the STBuBPDX is continuing to try to reach out through his IG stories. The cycle of messages has been nostalgia, shame and blame, fawning, bargaining, and despair. One message yesterday struck me: he had posted a photo of himself shirtless, scowling, and the message read that he had never filed for divorce, despite [a list of undesirable traits, the first of which being that I had "gained weight"], claiming that he was LOYAL. It struck me as absolutely disgusting. First, I don't want to be with someone who thinks so poorly of me, or who pats himself on the back for staying with me, despite the fact that he thinks I'm ugly or that my values are a joke. It really put me off.

After that, he switched gears to fawning and saying what an amazing person I am. He begged me to reconsider. He invited me (yet again) to dinner. He posted pics of himself crying. My FOG is acting up again, which compels me to respond in some way, but I also know communicating with him is fruitless. He will never wake up one day to understand my side of the story. If I JADE in response to him, he will just go back to shame and blame or he will beg.

I do feel horrible that he is hurting but it's not my job to heal his trauma, is it? Still, it does hurt to think that after all this time, after all of the agonizing about doing this to him, that his story is that I'm a horrible person and he has to hate me. In one of his stories he called me a "backstabber." That hurts me so much.

And I know I don't HAVE to look at these stories. My lawyer said not to block him, but I can ignore him. I just haven't been able to. I try and then I worry that he is going to self harm or something, so I peek in. I almost always regret that choice. I do think I'm getting stronger the more I'm away from him, but sometimes I need some extra support and reassurance. My therapist canceled this week, so I'm on my own there.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Wew-

First, ive been following your difficult story for quite a while and I need to tell you how incredibly proud I feel that you were able to get him to leave your home.  That took amazing strength.

And clearly your journey isn’t over.  He knows that and he’s playing it for all it’s worth.  He’s a showman.  Those IG stories are nothing, at least I don’t think so.  He had years to turn things around in your marriage and he CHOSE not to do a thing to show you love, kindness or to carry his own weight.  He chose cruelty.

Please think clearly about what you said:  “I don’t want to be with someone who thinks so poorly of me.” 

Oh my friend... you are the person who offered EVERYTHING to this sponge of a human.  And he responded like your worst enemy.  The mere fact that he is not working to change one morsel of his behavior shows you that the best thing you’ve ever done is to exit this relationship.

I truly believe that when we come to a place where we can see that we respect ourselves even less than our disordered partners do, we give them permission to continue.  I had to stop it, too.  The pain just becomes that intense...but it eases I assure you.

And no, my friend, he’s not going to harm himself.  He adores himself way too much.

Mystery:  Why on earth does your attorney tell you NOT to block this guy’s social media?  Sometimes we need a little “push” to disconnect, and a good lawyer will encourage that (I think?) - Especially from an emotionally abusive partner. When I was divorcing, my exH and I did not have social media and correspondence was through our lawyers. 

Can you please explain?

Please stay as strong as possible.  You tried for years with your H.  There is no reason to believe anything will change.  At all.  He only misses everything you did FOR HIM.  Just like my exH and my exBF.  I was incredibly “functional” to these men...in so many ways.  You’re so much more than that.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Cat Familiar]

You can expect to feel pain as you unravel the emotional bonds that kept you tied to him. You were all in. He wasn’t—he was all in for himself.

Still, there were some occasional good times and you will feel nostalgic for those moments. But now you have a clearer picture of who he is, one you couldn’t see when you were immersed in the relationship. And what you see is someone who is self-serving, who has a very limited sense of emotional intelligence, and who thinks of himself as a *victim* while he has spent years victimizing you.

I get it. I was with someone very similar. He had a sweet side at times when he wasn’t being a raging  . That *sweet little boy* side was a big draw, but it was merely a part that he often employed for succor. In the end, he showed his true colors and it was all about his own needs.

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks Cat and Gemsforeyes - it's so good to come here and get a "reality check" in a way.

My trauma bonded side wants to message him back and say, "I'm so sorry you're hurting. I don't want you to hurt. I wish you would seek out individual therapy. If you really wanted to stay connected to me you would do that."

But I know it would not have the effect I would want. He doesn't see things as I see them. Feelings are facts. He is the victim. I am the perpetrator. I'm the bad guy.

When we're with these people, we spend so much time caretaking their feelings. He was domineering, intimidating, coercive, and controlling. He used all of the tools in his toolbox to keep me right where he wanted me. Now that I'm not scared of him, he's turning on the sympathy tools.

I've spent a lot of my life trying to control how people think of me, controlling the narrative. In this case, I can't control the narrative and it's both terrifying and liberating for me to just let him think whatever he wants to think. This person, who at times put me on a pedestal, now has the capacity to think the very worst of me. It sears me emotionally. But I have to keep going. The only way past this is to stop engaging.

BTW - on the social media stuff, he really isn't supposed to be contacting me or trying to communicate with me at all. He kind of skirts around this using his IG stories. I am supposed to stay connected in case he tries to contact me or is threatening. I dropped the OP in favor of a consent agreement between us that is still enforceable. He isn't really harassing me, per se. *I* just need to stop looking.

[Gemsforeyes]

As long as we see clearly and keep the reality at the front of our minds, ALWAYS, we can continue to avoid the land mines our disordered exes continue to set for us.  The sad fact is that any sweet memories need to sit on your far back burner for maybe years.  Takes practice.  Those thoughts are dangerous to you, to all of us.  That’s what our exes count on.  And they play hard on our goodness.

Sorry for my ignorance, but can he see that you read what he puts on IG?  If so, is there any way to hide that you’re looking until you’re able to get yourself to block him?  And if he were going to “threaten”, wouldn’t he do that more privately, like email or phone message?

Also, do you mean that you *are able* to reinforce the Order of Protection at any time?  Did he start with these postings after you dropped that OP?  Any possible timing connection/ “bravery” from him there?  I think lots of these men are pretty chickensh$t at heart.  But give them an inch and they’ll intimidate all they can toward someone they view as “weak” who serves them well.

Sorry...  your thoughts?

Xo,
Gems

[Gemsforeyes]

Sorry to double post, but can someone else look at these IG stories for you?  Like a friend?  Are IG stories private or public?  I am really ignorant.  I have never looked at IG...

Xo,
Gems

[Cat Familiar]

I, too, was very dependent upon people thinking well of me. I think that is one of the many factors that kept me hooked in a dysfunctional relationship for far too long.

It wasn’t until I begin therapy after my divorce when I heard, “We’ve got to build you a self,” that I realized how dependent upon other people I was for my self-image.

Afterwards I went through a phase where figured that 1/3 of people would like me (for no good reason), 1/3 would dislike me (for similar reasons), and 1/3 wouldn’t care one way or another—and I’d focus on the 1/3 who liked me and not care about the ones who actively disliked me.

Now I don’t think about it at all, but rather enjoy when I have a pleasant interaction with someone. I can be assertive with people and not be invested in wondering if they like or dislike me. It’s tremendously freeing! 

[PeteWitsend]

...

I've spent a lot of my life trying to control how people think of me, controlling the narrative. ...

I know it's probably not easy, but you really need to find a way to let go of that.

Not only is it impossible to control how people think of you, it's pointless... it doesn't matter. 

You need to focus on how they behave and speak toward you; you have some say in that.  You can step away from conversations and you can call out behavior you don't like.  But you can't really know what someone is thinking.  And you can't control it.

[Notwendy]

You are the person who offered EVERYTHING to this sponge of a human.


I like this description.

While he may be acting like you are hurting him, consider that your enabling him kept him from the motivation to learn other life skills- and that hurt him in a different way.

That was the other side of being co-dependent that I learned about. On the surface, it appears we are the "good guy" the self sacrificing person, but it's actually self serving - controlling in a way, to enable someone who needs to learn how to take care of themselves.

He may not like it, in the same way that a kid doesn't like not being able to eat cookies for dinner. They want to eat cookies for dinner but we say no to them, because we know it's not in their best interest.

If toddlers had IG there'd be all kinds of posts about how their parents are mean poopy faces for not letting them eat all the cookies. Think about it- who posts that kind of garbage on IG?  Your ex's posts are emotionally immature and manipulative. The rotating through these "nostalgia, shame and blame, fawning, bargaining, and despair" are all manipulations. They have worked for him in the past, maybe even before he met you. Now, your task is to not reinforce this behavior by continuing to take care of you, and let him learn to take care of himself.

[WitzEndWife]

I've been listening to a podcast about BPD called "Surviving a BPD Relationship Breakup" and there have been some really great insights that I've picked up there. The BPD relationship wasn't real. It was rooted in my trauma and his trauma working together to try to meet our needs. What's weird about BPD is that they use others as a mirror to reflect the self, but so do codependents, in a way. So, here we are, holding up two mirrors, but reflecting nothing, really.

I think we get stuck in thinking that, underneath all the disfunction is some rational being who is going to wake up and say, "Hey, wait a minute, something isn't right here!" But because they were wounded so early on in life, they never had a chance to develop that rational sense of self. So, essentially, reasoning with or trying to get someone with BPD to see a different version of reality isn't possible if they are untreated.

What's interesting is that I did (ugh - I KNOW) respond, just to say that the only way to change dynamics is individual therapy and self work, and the messages stopped completely. I doubt that will be forever, but it's interesting how setting a boundary with therapy had that effect.

[Notwendy]

Interesting idea and I have read similar- that we choose partners with whom to act out our childhood trauma.

Well you did respond and probably the silence won't continue but I hope now you know you have said all you can say. You have spoken to him in the past in hopes of fixing things but you see now that it didn't work, and doesn't work with him.

Telling your ex he needs therapy isn't the most effective boundary because a boundary is actually an action on your part. Imagine you are standing at your front door, it's wide open, and a burglar is there wanting to rob your house. Which one is an effective boundary?

You say to him "Hello Burglar- you need to not come in his house!" and the door is still wide open.

Or, you close the door and lock it.

Your boundary is when you choose to not discuss the relationship further with your ex.

[WitzEndWife]

I know you're right, Notwendy, with the boundary. I don't know WHY I keep doing that. It's hard to stay strong 24/7, even though, logically, I know it won't make a difference and will probably just keep the communication threads going longer I want them to.

The latest news: he got fired from his job. I don't know what that will mean for me financially. Hopefully, in this job market, he will find something else fairly quickly. Now that he has an apartment in his name and his own bills, he'll have to pound the pavement, I'd imagine, unless his mom is willing to fund him indefinitely, which I imagine she won't.

Maybe once he gets a new job, he'll be more focused on that than on me. This is going to be a really challenging trauma bond to break, but I know, as the more stable one, I'm going to have to do whatever it is in my power to stay strong and stop engaging.

[Notwendy]

I think the finances would need to be worked out legally, so your lawyer would know what that would entail.

Regardless- you are not responsible for supporting him or his inability to hold on to a job. He has a mental illness. If he's truly incapable of supporting himself, then perhaps he needs to go on disability. You are not social services. If his mother wants to continue to support him, that's her choice, not your responsibility.

You have done all your can for this person. Even if the finances change, it has to be better than the financial cost in addition to the emotional toll of continuing this relationship. You now have the chance to recover and work on your own trauma that kept you in that situation. It's hard because it did take the focus off your feelings but you deserve that focus too.

Take some of that hard earned income to reward you. I don't mean go crazy but even doing things like a mani pedi, or order take out from a favorite place to eat. Likely you've been thinking "oh no, can't do that, too expensive" while your ex spent the money you earned. It's time to stop thinking like that.

You are totally worth investing in you!

[WitzEndWife]

You're speaking sanity right now, Notwendy. I did buy myself a ridiculous sequined jacket for Fall that I'd been admiring for a while. I also rescued another dog, although that may not have been the smartest thing to do at this time. He is very cute but also has separation anxiety, which adds yet more stress and less time to focus on me. But each day is getting better with that, so I'm sure I'll get back to me. This is a really rough time. I keep waiting to feel better, somehow, but the stress keeps building.

[Notwendy]

Actually, I think a needy dog might be a great way to direct your caretaking tendencies. Habitual behaviors take some work to change. Considering that this has met some kind of emotional need for you, maybe this is helping you manage changes more gradually in a far less emotionally destructive way. Maybe it's similar to chewing nicotine gum to stop smoking. Eventually one needs to not need it at all, but it's more doable than an abrupt change.

And your furry friend appreciates it.

Hang in there!

[ForeverDad]

The latest news: he got fired from his job.

Interesting timing.  Maybe he vented at his work.  Maybe he purposely neglected to perform his duties.  But he's an adult and responsible for his own behaviors and setbacks.  It's not a reason for you to let him come back into your life.

[WitzEndWife]

I feel so awful, depressed, and alone through all of this. Like I have no comfort to help me get through this hardship and I just have to bare knuckle things by myself. Financially, I'm really in a pickle, knowing full well that the lawyer is going to ask for more money eventually. Just filing everything has cost me an arm and a leg.

I just had to fork over half of my checking account to him and then I had to borrow more money to pay the rest of the bills. I know this is a temporary state of affairs, but I'm stressed out and overwhelmed most of the time. I don't know what to do with myself.

[Cat Familiar]

Spend some time with your horse and your dogs.   

[Cat Familiar]

You cannot think yourself out of this mess. It will take time and you’ve got legal counsel. Surrender to the notion that it will eventually be done and will all be worked out.

[Notwendy]

Cat is right. You will feel what you feel but it's in the process of working out. Divorce is expensive, but continuing to support your ex for the long run would cost you more, and emotionally, enduring his abuse has an emotional cost. It's difficult now- but for a reason- to be in a better situation for you.

Who do you have for support? What interests have you put on hold due to the time and energy you spent on your H? Hobbies, religion, exercise, seeing friends? Any groups out there you might want to join? I think one issue in these relationships is the sense of losing oneself, not even knowing what you like or want to do, but think of something you might want to try.

[I Am Redeemed]

I get what you mean about trying to control how others feel about you and feeling awful when someone has a negative view of you that you know is unfair. That hook kept me sinking time and energy into my ex for years.

When I left, the guilt I felt over his pain caused me to cave in and still try to fix his feelings as much as possible and it put me in an extremely dangerous situation. Even after that, I still felt awful that he was experiencing pain (as a direct result of his own actions).

I eventually got to a place where I could feel sad for him and his situation while not feeling responsible for it or feeling the overwhelming urge to fix it for him. I'm not perfect at this, and after nearly five years I almost get sucked back into his emotional manipulation from time to time (we only have contact because of S6). I have to step back and remind myself to separate sadness for his situation from the responsibility to fix it. One is mine - I can feel sad about it because it is sad. One is not mine - I don't have to take action to make his situation better. That's his job.

I'm with Not Wendy on the support group suggestion. Most are free and it would give you a chance to develop relationships with others, something to do with your time so you aren't just trying to muddle through this all by yourself, and give you an extra layer of support in between therapy sessions.

[WitzEndWife]

I can look into support groups. The challenge I have right in this moment is that the dog I adopted is exhibiting isolation distress, so the course of treatment for that is not leaving him alone except when I'm working with him to desensitize him. If I have a sitter, great. If I don't, I can't do anything. It won't be like this forever, but it's definitely contributing to the isolation.

I have a lot of friends all over the country and the world, but locally, there aren't many people who can actually come over or help and support me. And I don't want to annoy the same people over and over.

I'm doing my best here, I guess, with the resources I have.

I Am Redeemed, there's still this need to caretake his feelings, I think. It's not even logical, it's like a compulsion. I do it before I even think about it. I do feel less and less responsible for his situation, but there's still that tiny bit of guilt that remains.

[Notwendy]

Some 12 step CODA groups are still probably online. You can attend with your dog right there. I really recommend them. They have helped me a lot.

Just like when an alcoholic is craving a drink- they can call their sponsor, they can attend as many meetings as available to get the support they need.

There's still this need to caretake his feelings, I think. It's not even logical, it's like a compulsion. I do it before I even think about it. I


This is your version of alcohol addiction. This is your "drug" or "drink". I recognized this when if someone wanted me to do something, I'd automatically do it. Not even think about it. Then I found myself in the middle of doing something that was caretaking someone else even if I didn't want to do it. It's the mere suggestion that got me to do it. And the feeling behind this was fear- but I didn't even tune into that, because I was on automatic. What is this "automatic"? It's like when someone has a drinking blackout, or is so drunk they don't remember what they did. I have never had these experiences with alcohol or drugs and so I thought this was only about people who were addicted to alcohol but one can get emotionally addicted to co-dependency.

Once I understood this, whenever I felt the urge to emotionally caretake or start to JADE or any of the compulsions to fix someone else's feelings, I visualized someone handing me drugs or a drink and I know to not pick up that drink but I had to learn to not pick up this either.

When your ex plays on your emotions, he's handing you emotional heroin.

This is your drug. You've been on drugs for a while. Now, you need to get "sober" and there's help for this in 12 step CODA groups.

[Cat Familiar]

Here ya go:  https://coda.org/find-a-meeting/online-meetings/

[PeteWitsend]

Interesting timing.  Maybe he vented at his work.  Maybe he purposely neglected to perform his duties.  But he's an adult and responsible for his own behaviors and setbacks.  It's not a reason for you to let him come back into your life.

Yeah, I'd double check that... call his prior employer and have them verify he was fired and didn't quit.  

BPDxw lied over and over again during our divorce... on things big and small, important or irrelevant.

It sometimes helps their cause... in an effort to seem impartial, judges and mediators try to ensure they make some concessions to both parties.  So they may disregard a bunch of absurd obviously false lies, but feel like they have to go along with at least one (1) thing to keep them happy and avoid allegations of bias.  So one thing goes against you, where the pwBPD's claim seems more reasonable, but it's based on as much of a lie as the others.

During my divorce, BPDxw threw out a bunch of absurd figures of what her monthly expenses were and claimed basically, my entire salary should go to her.  The mediator laughed all those off, but it didn't seem to harm her credibility.  

When it came down to a division of personal property left in the home, she claimed it was "all junk" with a value of $0, and the mediator agreed with that and refused to assign any value to it for purposes of figuring the settlement.

So by leaving her all the furniture, I got nothing...

[kells76]

Yeah, I'd double check that... call his prior employer and have them verify he was fired and didn't quit. 

I'd been refraining from commenting, but I'm with Petewitsend. pwBPD say all kinds of things. I seriously doubt he "happened" to be fired... right at this very moment. Curious how the news got to you?

[GaGrl]

I'd been refraining from commenting, but I'm with Petewitsend. pwBPD say all kinds of things. I seriously doubt he "happened" to be fired... right at this very moment. Curious how the news got to you?

I don't think it matters. Either he quit, which was irresponsible, or he did something that caused him to be fired, which is irresponsible. Key word -- irresponsible. Meaning also it's not your responsibility.

I doubt the former employer will release information regarding termination of employment.

[PeteWitsend]

I don't think it matters. Either he quit, which was irresponsible, or he did something that caused him to be fired, which is irresponsible. Key word -- irresponsible. Meaning also it's not your responsibility.

I doubt the former employer will release information regarding termination of employment.

Well, they'd have to if subpoenaed (granted that costs money)

She might be able to get some info by calling and asking around, especially if he left under bad terms and they're not happy with him.  

the information could possibly be helpful if he's being difficult over the property settlement and looking for cash for support.  His claims will appear to be in bad faith if he was fired for cause or otherwise just stopped showing up one day.

It can't hurt to ask & find out.  

[Cat Familiar]

If you really want to be sneaky, ask a friend to call his former employer for a reference.

[WitzEndWife]

I'm pretty sure he was fired. He made a TON of mistakes, even when he first started. On top of that, he was crying at work and not really focused on the job, per his Instagram. I would not in any way doubt he was fired. It was a good, union job too. Those are apparently rare in his industry.

I do need to focus on myself. Thankfully I have T this week, so that's good.