Subtle mind games and control…

[thankful person]

 I do like what you said about "we have to assert what we expect from them… you have to pretend you believe they can and will comply, otherwise you have no hope. With my wife, I have finally unlocked something similar." -- I will definitely want to explore that, it sounds very interesting.  Do you have any resources [books/videos/etc.] so I can learn more?

I don’t really have such resources, it’s more just a “fake it ‘til you make it” mentality. I worked with children for 20 years before I met my wife and worked with many autistic children. They are far easier to communicate with than my bpdw. One particular young adult with autism I worked with was brain damaged at birth. I learnt that what worked best with her was to confidently say, “I know you can do it because I’ve seen you do it before…” Even if I hadn’t seen it, she believed me and I would then find out the extent of her abilities because she would stop having me on.

With my wife, the biggest problem was her trying to control every aspect of my life. Always due to jealousy. It seemed that she disliked me feeling any form of happiness or even just pleased to have completed a chore. Like one time she raged at me because I’d been washing the dishes (with her permission because I always needed permission back then as she would rather I was with her than doing chores). She came in as I was cleaning the hob (to me this is part of what you do when doing dishes!) But I honestly thought she was jealous to see the satisfaction I get from cleaning… because she said, “maybe I wanted to do that!” Of course, I then didn’t do it for a month and who did it? Nobody.

I had become an extremely nervous, anxious, pathetic individual, constantly asking my wife’s permission to take a photo of the baby, have a shower, vacuum the house, phone my mother, the list goes on. So for me “ fake it til you make it” meant faking self love, self care, self respect, self compassion etc etc. This also enabled me to stand up for myself and walk away from the screaming at times. The incredible outcome in my marriage is that my wife has actually become (presents as) more sane. The irony is that I had finally accepted I could never change her. But she actually has changed her behaviour and treatment of me.

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[Couscous]

But I honestly thought she was jealous to see the satisfaction I get from cleaning… because she said, “maybe I wanted to do that!”

So this to me doesn’t sound like jealousy. To me it sounds like she was trying to shame you, (I know I would feel shame if my spouse said something like that to me) and the only reason she would do that was because she herself was feeling shame. If you do the lion’s share of the housework even though she is a stay-at-home mother, this will more than likely trigger a lot feelings of guilt and shame in her, even if you have made an agreement with her that you will shoulder more of the load while the children are tiny. Her feelings of guilt and shame will likely be amplified if her mother was a martyr and would make her feel  guilty for all that she did for your wife, and she’s projecting that on to you.

What do you think?

[SaltyDawg]

 

Thank you, thankful, for your explanation of 'fake it till you make it' -- it kind of make sense as a portion of the BPD mind is stuck at a 2-3 year old level.

I would tend to agree with couscous assessment of guilt and shame, unless she truly finds cleaning an enjoyable task.  I personally would find it a chore, and shaming.

I am going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that you may want to examine the following article for an additional perspective on an additional dynamic going on:  https://thehealthycompulsive.com/introductory/types-of-obsessive-compulsive/ with attention to the

The OCPD dynamic is also at play in my relationships.

[thankful person]

So this to me doesn’t sound like jealousy. To me it sounds like she was trying to shame you, (I know I would feel shame if my spouse said something like that to me) and the only reason she would do that was because she herself was feeling shame.
What do you think?

Couscous, that is incredibly insightful, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. The shame part of the bpd is something I think I have often missed with my wife. She has conventional bpd as in, she was diagnosed following self harm, and she still has severe scars on her arms from this which continued for several years. So when we met online, I thought she would be “like me” as in, “I hate myself and I’m a worthless sh1t person and everything’s my fault.. I’m sorry for ruining your life…”

She was nothing of the sort and very rarely expresses any disappointment in herself as a person  (only her self image). So she seems to me more like those unconventional and undiagnosed pwbpds which many on the forum have found themselves with.

I totally think you’re right though about the shame. My wife certainly doesn’t love cleaning hahaha. I like it to be done and would be more than happy if she did more. I do like cleaning and I’ve done it for a living but tbh it was more to learn how to be more efficient cleaning my own home. I wonder how many others of her vicious verbal attacks and rages have come from a place of shame, which I misinterpreted as jealousy.

I am going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that you may want to examine the following article for an additional perspective on an additional dynamic going on:  https://thehealthycompulsive.com/introductory/types-of-obsessive-compulsive/ with attention to the
The OCPD dynamic is also at play in my relationships.

Salty Dawg, I will read the article about OCPD. My wife’s mother has often been told she has OCD because she is obsessive about her home cleaning routine, to the point that she would rather get it done than see her grandchildren. She didn’t let my wife do anything for herself, would clean and tidy her room even until she left home at age 21. Also of note is the fact her parents were claiming disability benefit for her. She was statemented and went to special needs school. But as an adult there was no real need for this. I refused to help her fill out forms saying she needed help with personal hygiene and other such things. I felt it was wrong that she was getting the money. She doesn’t claim anymore. But it’s a thing in her family. Both her sisters get disability benefits and are trying to get their children diagnosed to get more money. I’m so glad she doesn’t want the same for our children.

[Couscous]

Good grief…her family sound very disturbed. I wonder if they all have Munchausen syndrome by proxy in addition to anti-social personality disorder. Good for your wife for not following in their footsteps.

[thankful person]

Good grief…her family sound very disturbed. I wonder if they all have Munchausen syndrome by proxy in addition to anti-social personality disorder. Good for your wife for not following in their footsteps.

Couscous, absolutely, I had thought of Munchausen’s by proxy too. All those poor kids hear of is how their parents think they have ASD, ADHD etc etc, it damages a child’s self esteem to hear what a problem they are. One of her sisters always puts pictures of the child crying on Facebook having screaming tantrums. No wonder with a mother like that! My wife went to special needs school. She says it’s because she had “understanding problems” but her parents have no paperwork to show her. As a professional, I know this is no diagnosed condition. My wife’s other sister is looking at that school for her child. She has delayed learning but is so keen and asks for my help when I go round. My wife really doesn’t want her niece going to school there because they don’t challenge you and the kids don’t leave with any qualifications. I think that school has a lot to do with how my wife is now, along with the parenting.