Petulant BPD, adult child

[A Soul]

Hi--First post here. My adult daughter was diagnosed with cyclothymia in the 1990s while in elementary school--before BPD was considered a potential diagnosis for those under 18. When she turned 18 (she's in her 30s now), she stopped receiving CBT and taking her prescribed meds. Her emotional lability increased exponentially after that with very rapid mood swings and anger outbursts to benign issues. (One example: Lengthy crying, accusations and berating of me when I felt ill and didn't feel I'd be up to going to the zoo with her and my grandson.) My modus operandi was always to try to reason with her and show her choices (a la CBT), which I now realize (after reading a bit about BPD) was perhaps the least effective thing I could do.

Not knowing about BPD, we family members had been trying to remain neutral and tiptoe around to avoid her outbursts (neither, of course, productive nor helpful). Then unexpectedly this year, she estranged herself from her father, me, and her sweet 89-year-old grandmother via text message, and blocked our phone numbers. She also dropped a very close friend.

I recently found info on petulant BPD and was shocked to see how many of her behaviors fit several of the signs/symptoms. The splitting with us really brought this to light.

Oh gosh, this is getting long. Sorry. Here's my question:

According to several sources, shame and guilt are the overarching emotion experienced by those with BPD. But my daughter has never overtly shown shame or worthlessness as far as I know. She has always come across as extremely self-assured, in charge, always with an opposing viewpoint/quick answer, always right, no gray areas.

Is it possible for someone with petulant BPD to have a strong sense of self confidence/identity--or is there always an underlying sense of shame/inadequacy (something that is there but not ever overtly expressed)? Perhaps this happens when BPD co-occurs with NPD? I'm confused about this symptom.

I know that I cannot diagnose her myself, but I am planning to take a course for families with BPD children to learn DBT and Mentalization so I can wrap my head around how to support her if she ever chooses to reconnect.

I am an introvert and a recovering codependent (probably the worst match for someone with BPD!) with a loving nature, and of course I'd love to have a reciprocally loving relationship with my child. I realize it may be too late in the journey for a recovered relationship, but at the very least I want to try to understand what she is experiencing.

This disorder has created a brick wall between my daughter and her ability to live a happy life. It has been devastating to see this over the past 25+ years. I do not know if she will accept a diagnosis if one is ever forthcoming.

Thanks to any of you who can provide any comraderie and insight along this difficult journey.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[A Soul]

Hi--First post here. My adult daughter was diagnosed with cyclothymia in the 1990s while in elementary school--before BPD was considered a potential diagnosis for those under 18. When she turned 18 (she's in her 30s now), she stopped receiving CBT and taking her prescribed meds. Her emotional lability increased exponentially after that with very rapid mood swings and anger outbursts to benign issues. (One example: Crying, shouting and berating me when I felt too ill to go to the zoo with her and my grandson.) My modus operandi was always to try to reason with her and show her choices (a la CBT), which I now realize (after reading a bit about BPD) was perhaps the least effective thing I could do.

Not knowing about BPD, we family members had been trying to remain neutral and tiptoe around to avoid her outbursts (neither, of course, productive nor helpful). Then unexpectedly this year, she estranged herself from her father, me, and her sweet 89-year-old grandmother via text message, and blocked our phone numbers. She also dropped a very close friend.

I recently found info on petulant BPD and was shocked to see how many of her behaviors fit several of the signs/symptoms. The splitting with us really brought this to light.

Oh gosh, this is getting long. Sorry. Here's my question:

According to several sources, shame and guilt are the overarching emotion experienced by those with BPD. But my daughter has never overtly shown shame or worthlessness as far as I know. She has always come across as extremely self-assured, in charge, always with an opposing viewpoint/quick answer, always right, no gray areas.

Is it possible for someone with petulant BPD to have a strong sense of self confidence/identity--or is there always an underlying sense of shame/inadequacy (something that is there but not ever overtly expressed)? Perhaps this happens when BPD co-occurs with NPD? I'm confused about this symptom.

I know that I cannot diagnose her myself, but I am planning to take a course for families with BPD children to learn DBT and Mentalization so I can wrap my head around how to support her if she ever chooses to reconnect.

I am an introvert and a recovering codependent (probably the worst match for someone with BPD!) with a loving nature, and of course I'd love to have a reciprocally loving relationship with my child. I realize it may be too late in the journey for a recovered relationship, but at the very least I want to try to understand what she is experiencing.

This disorder has created a brick wall between my daughter and her ability to live a happy life. It has been devastating to see this over the past 25+ years. I do not know if she will accept a diagnosis if one is ever forthcoming.

Thanks to any of you who can provide any comraderie and insight along this difficult journey.

[LifewithEase]

Welcome!

To help with camaraderie, something that has been very helpful for me (relatively new), I can comment on the mind-bending contrast between deep inadequacy and super confidence.

"extremely self-assured, in charge, always with an opposing viewpoint/quick answer, always right, no gray areas."

My uBPDw is amazingly self-assured, professionally accomplished, incredibly intelligent with amazingly quick wit and higher-order use of words/language.

With this, big triggers for her include simply having an opposing view, diving into vulnerabilities, being intimate (in all manners), not being good enough (in her eyes), weaponizing regular mistakes, approaching life in a different way...

uBPDw logic and word use during a dysregulation is amazing yet crazy-making because it seems real / correct (especially for those of us who are "Caretakers' wanting harmony, resolve).

After lots of learning and reading books, this board, therapy, etc. I've really learned that BPD [dysregulated] feelings are hard facts for them.

It is not logical. Hard to accept.

I still struggle with the root cause of BPD and how it physiologically controls how pwBPD function.

[A Soul]

This sounds so similar to my adult child. Thanks so much for responding. It is good to feel I'm not alone. I'm in a space between grief and acceptance right now, looking forward to reading more, learning, and getting some therapy for myself. I am going to have some Brainspotting sessions to see if they can help with unresolved trauma over the verbal & emotional challenges I've experienced from my loved one over the past many years.

I especially related to your comment about how responses during a dysregulated period can sound logically cogent (and do from her POV), but there is a disconnect in perception (of my conversational response or to a situation), and emotional reactions are much more extreme than what you would expect.

I'm not sure what updw means. Can you explain?

The fact that "dysregulated feelings are hard facts for them" makes things especially difficult, as there apparently will be no end to the (unintentional) conversational miscues and false assumptions that take place in with pwBDP. I guess there's no getting away from the sense of being gaslit. It's good to know, though, that apparently one can learn how to adapt what you say & do in order to dampen the feelings of shame that apparently are always there.

Thanks again for sharing with me.

[kells76]

Hello A Soul, I join with LifewithEase in welcoming you here. So glad you found the group.

Just wanted to briefly answer your question about the acronym "updw" (or "uBPDw") -- I believe that Lifewithease is referring to "undiagnosed BPD wife".

Check out this link to ALL the acronyms, I hope it helps you!

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0

Cheers;

kells76

[A Soul]

Thanks for clarifying, Kells! Also thank you for the acronyms link!