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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Go3737
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« on: December 01, 2022, 06:28:23 PM »

Wife drinks and goes crazy. Verbal, emotional and physical abuse leveled against me.

She doesn't want to stop.

We are on the verge of divorce after 39 years.

Anyone found a way to get them to stop drinking and raging?
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kells76
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2022, 10:38:42 PM »

I do wish for both your sakes there were a way to make her stop. It would be so much better for your relationship.

Unfortunately, like you said, she doesn't want to stop, and she is the only person who can ultimately control her drinking.

That being said, there are things in your control that you can do to "remove opportunities for her to be abusive", in a way. For example, some people stay at a motel if their spouse has been drinking in the evening.

Finding ways to "decline to be available" for her drunken tirades is something important for you to think about. Other than that, she will have to want to stop and choose to stop. Some people do, so it's not impossible, just challenging. Many have to "hit rock bottom" and experience loss before making the choice to stop.

Again, I hope for both your sakes that you "declining to be available" is a wake up call for her.

I'm guessing you have already checked out Al-Anon?
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Go3737
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2022, 10:24:11 AM »

I attended Al-Anon for a year.
I found the mixed groups full of fearful and depressed men and women afraid to DO anything to extract themselves from their bad situations.

I attended a mens only group. WOW... sorry to say it was a room of 20 beaten down sad powerless men. It was both heartbreaking and sickening.

Living the a big city means high prices for hotels so that as a strategy is out of the question... even though I have done that - spent close to 20G on hotels and Airbnbs.  Not a good long term strategy.

Dealing with BPD/NPD, a disappointed, frustrated wife
 on Alcohol is daunting.

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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 11:27:18 AM »

I understand. My BPD mother has done this too, less so in her elder years but we don't really know if she does as we don't live close to her. We kids were terrified of her when she was drinking- and also when she isn't drinking.

I have spent time in 12 step groups from the other side- ACA and CODA. I agree, there are people at different places in their journey with this situation. Some are depressed and feel unable to do anything but there are others who have made significant growth in these groups.

Sitting in groups, listening to people share their stories is only a fraction of the personal work that could be gotten out of them. There is a benefit to that, but if that is the only thing someone does, I don't think they will get a lot more out of it. The most effective thing for me was working with a sponsor- and we choose our sponsors. Often there is more than one person in these groups- usually an "old timer" who seems to have it together- and are willing to be sponsors- those are the people you want to ask if they will be your sponsor.

The experience for me was a form of "tough love" where that sponsor turned the mirror on me and held me accountable for any behavior that was a part of the dysfunction. It wasn't always pleasant and sometimes I felt angry about it. Why should I be called out? I am not the problem here. I don't have BPD and I am not addicted to alcohol. But I can work on my part of the dynamics.

Alcohol addiction adds a certain difficulty to a relationship with someone with BPD, but the family dynamics are similar in both situations. I mention this because these dynamics include every family member, including your kids, who may one day find themselves being referred to a 12 step group if they seek out counseling for themselves due to these dynamics as I did.

All addictions are a form of escape from difficult feelings. PwBPD have difficulty managing their uncomfortable feelings. Alcohol has a numbing effect. It's possible your wife is self medicating with alcohol. From what I have learned, we can not make someone stop drinking. I wish we could- as we surely would have done that if we could.


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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2022, 01:24:09 PM »

In her youth, my wife abused heroin and various other drugs.  Most people like that don't gain sobriety - they die.  But though 12-step programs, she gained "sobriety" for 11 years.  Success, because she was still alive. 

On the other hand, I've learned that it is not really the substance, it is the underlying mental condition.  My wife still seeks out whatever will "fix" her.  Sure, it's not heroin, but whether it is food, reckless spending, marijuana, or medical treatments - her inability to accept life as it is contributes to her rages and abuse.  She will lash out at me because she has shame over what she just ate or what she just spent money on.  Example, she was upset with me for not telling her how much I spent to take her and the kids to a music performance (it was about $200 including parking), yet she spends $200 every other week on ketamine infusions. 

I had a previous girlfriend who would drink to excess, and it was like a switch went off, and she would rage at me and say really strange stuff.  I would simply leave when that happened.  The next day, she would not remember anything.  After awhile I realized she was the same way when sober, just a lot quieter.  The alcohol simply amplified what was already there.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2022, 09:27:47 AM »

In her youth, my wife abused heroin and various other drugs.  Most people like that don't gain sobriety - they die.  But though 12-step programs, she gained "sobriety" for 11 years.  Success, because she was still alive.  

On the other hand, I've learned that it is not really the substance, it is the underlying mental condition.

Alcohol addiction without a mental disorder is difficult for the with the addiction and their family members. The mental disorder on its own is also a difficult situation and the alcohol addiction could be self medicating.

Although I have been in CODA/ACA groups, where our own issue isn't alcohol, there are members in the group who were in AA. All addictions are a form of escape of painful or difficult feelings. The first priority for AA or drug addiction is to stop the addictive substance as it is physically harmful. But once the person is sober, they then still have to deal with the reasons they used drugs or alcohol to start with, now that their way of coping is gone- they need new ways to cope. Since these patterns are found in families- they then move to ACA or CODA to help with them.

These people though, are not mentally ill. They are self aware, and have taken responsibility for their drinking and now seek to work on the issues they were trying to escape from. They may have been addicts at one point but they have achieved alcohol/drug sobriety through the AA program and are motivated and self aware. Some of them are among the most emotionally stable people I know due to the work they have done.

Attempts at sobriety with my BPD mother have failed, because without alcohol she is still overwhelmed with her difficult feelings. 12 step groups are not treatments for mental disorders. They are not run by mental health professionals. Because they are open and public, people with mental disorders can find their way to them but unless someone is able to have insight and is willing to do some serious self examination, they won't be effective and a mental disorder can prevent that ability.

Max, your wife was able to get off heroin. That alone is accomplishment. But she's not sober and she still has BPD. She's basically changed from an illegal, and dangerous form of drugs for a legal and medically supervised, one which is safer for her. If 12 steps helped her to get off heroin, then that is a success. It's not that 12 steps didn't work- it did, but that it isn't a treatment for mental disorders.
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Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2022, 12:04:03 PM »

My BPD mother was a heavy drinker. She joined AA when I was 8yo, following a relationship with the owner of a bar she used to drink in. Today, I am convinced she finally figured out the man was molesting me, and she hit rock bottom. She said she stopped drinking for me, in the end. I still remember the look in her eyes when she took that 1year sobriety token. She looked directly at me, with such shame. Because she just couldn't stopped sooner. Because she knew she had put us all through hell.

The rages did stop with the drinking. She became awfully quiet and depressed. She would stay in bed for days on ends. It was quiet for a while. She was taking meds.

I kept growing and I can now see that the raging witch she was when drinking resorbed and gave lieu to a waify victim... I somehow became the one to blame because I had trauma of my own... I should have forgotten, I should have forgiven everything because she had stopped drinking. I still wasn't allowed to act out or feel angry. I still wasn't seen or allowed to be and tell my truth.

The raging and screaming was replaced by emotional manipulation, by guiltripping and shaming. By threats and invalidation.

Drinking or not, in the end, her illness renders her unable to take responsibility for what she is doing, for who she is. And without taking responsibility, one cannot change.

Now she doesn't drink anymore but she is somehow back at raging and screaming but WITH the new guiltripping and shaming abilities...  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Radical acceptance, friend. Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2022, 01:22:27 PM »

I was able to get my husband to stop abusing alcohol, and he quit cold turkey. I had begged, pleaded, asked, made a variety of what I thought were convincing arguments, but nothing worked…until I called his doctor and told her how much he was drinking. She had been prescribing him pain pills and sleeping pills, and he would drink heavily and use these pills to accentuate his *high*.

She told him that she could no longer prescribe for him if he continued drinking. He chose the pills instead of alcohol.

I’d tried this with his previous doctor, but she didn’t confront him.

He was furious, but he hasn’t had any alcohol since February. Unfortunately he had a stroke a few weeks ago, so perhaps his current sobriety might have saved his life. He is seriously disabled, and at this point, how much physical ability could return is an open question. Fortunately his cognitive ability is only slightly affected.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2022, 01:42:27 PM »

I recall that I called an alcohol hotlne to talk about my BPD mother's drinking. I was about 13-14 at the time. The lady answering the phone was in tears. I can't imagine what she was thinking- that a kid called her. To me though, I was already parentified. It was a normal thing to look out for my mother and call the hotline for advice.

Where were the adults in my life? Nobody. We did go stay with my father's family at times but they didn't live close enough to intervene on a regular basis. Dad was probably in denial. He didn't leave us with her like that when we were little. As teens he did- assuming we were old enough. She's a small lady and we were large enough to not be physically harmed but not emotionally equipped to deal with that.

It was a family "secret" - we were not allowed to tell anyone but I was trying to call attention to it. Calling the hotline was one time but nothing came out of that. One time, she threw something at me. I wasn't hurt but pretended I was and screamed as my father to take me to the emergency room. Once there, I told them what happened. Nothing came out of it either- presumably because she actually didn't cause any physical harm. I think it was clear that I wanted someone to know what was going on at home, but I wasn't allowed to say anything about it to people we knew.

Go3737- you mentioned you fear your kids would be angry at you if you left their mother, but likely, they have seen enough to understand why you may not wish to tolerate this. I hope they are old enough and have left home on their own, so you don't leave them with her like this alone though.

Cat- I am so sorry to hear about your H. I hope he gains some recovery.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 01:48:06 PM by Notwendy » Logged
Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2022, 02:33:12 PM »


Where were the adults in my life?

It was a family "secret" - we were not allowed to tell anyone but I was trying to call attention to it.


Interesting... For us it was the contrary. All the adults in my life knew me mother had a drinking problem, so I figured it was normal, I knew no one would ever do anything about it. It wasn't secret, yet no one cared. So indeed : where were all the adults in my life?

I have this memory of my bus driver, who had known my mother for many years (was an old neighbor), leaving me on a high traffic Boulevard. My mother wasn't there yet. So he said : are you sure you are ok? And I said : yes, I'll just wait for her at the bar. ... So I crossed the street, went into the bar, and sat down. The barmaid made me an orange juice with grenadine. And I waited for mom with the other drunks. I was in grade 2, if memory serves right... So about 7 or 8 years old here.

It was all so normalized around me that to me, it was just business as usual. Everyone seemed to just accept it, so why would I have questioned it? Now I look at my own children and I am completely appalled that no one even tried to lift a finger about it, but people didn't care at the time. People were pretty much free to do as they pleased, I guess?

Sorry for the hijack. I think it is the first time I read you share your mother alcoholism, Notwendy. Right there with you  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2022, 03:53:14 PM »

I don't say a lot about it. It was a very difficult thing to deal with, but if the topic comes up and also 12 step groups and I feel I can add a perspective to that, I try.

I think that drinking is normalized in bars and pubs. Drinking can still be a problem for some people in bars but it's not a problem for most people who go to hang out with friends there, and in a social context when it is normal- everyone is drinking in bar- there's company and it's normal to drink there.

BPD mother drank alone when nobody could see it. It wasn't much of a secret to us that she was drinking at home while we were in school when we came home. I can tell if someone has been drinking a mile away. That's how sensitive we are to even mild signs- her facial expression might be slightly different and we have noses like bloodhounds for the smell of alcohol so we knew to stay out of her way if she'd been drinking.

Nobody else in the family drank like that. Dad occasionally had the rare glass of wine but he didn't drink much or to excess. I was actually afraid of anyone who drank too much. Moderate drinking in social situations doesn't bother me, but I knew that the kind of drinking my mother did wasn't normal or moderation.
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2022, 04:35:59 AM »

I do wish for both your sakes there were a way to make her stop. It would be so much better for your relationship.

Unfortunately, like you said, she doesn't want to stop, and she is the only person who can ultimately control her drinking.

That being said, there are things in your control that you can do to "remove opportunities for her to be abusive", in a way. For example, some people stay at a motel if their spouse has been drinking in the evening.

Finding ways to "decline to be available" for her drunken tirades is something important for you to think about. Other than that, she will have to want to stop and choose to stop. Some people do, so it's not impossible, just challenging. Many have to "hit rock bottom" and experience loss before making the choice to stop.

Again, I hope for both your sakes that you "declining to be available" is a wake up call for her.

I'm guessing you have already checked out Al-Anon?
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2022, 04:50:31 AM »

Hello.

I am new here and grateful to have found this group. My husband does not have a formal diagnosis of BPD, but from what I've read here, it seems to fit his behavior exactly. He drinks by himself and when he does, he picks on or teases the kids, then punishes them. When I try to step in, he rages even more. I would rather he rage at me and belittle me than target them, but it is still unhealthy for them to see this. It happens every time he drinks, but I have noticed it happens at other times as well.

I'm not quite sure what to ask here, or to do. I think just maybe trying to find a way to not feel so alone.
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Go3737
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2022, 10:18:01 AM »

The worst part of all this raging is she has no memory of what she does when she is blackout drunk raging. I get the pleasure of remembering everything she said or did.

I am beginning to hate alcohol. It is everywhere, even in the local diner. They put in a sitting bar!

Every TV show and movie celebrates it. Every social event is planned around it.

YUCK!
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2022, 11:37:30 AM »

That isn't unique to being drunk. When my BPD mother dissociates sometimes it's like a "reset" for her thinking. Once it's over, she feel fine and acts like nothing happen. Those of us on the receiving don't feel OK.

The next day, after the rages, my parents would be in the kitchen acting as if nothing happened. We knew not to ask- they'd say it was nothing or they'd get angry if we said anything. We all had to pretend nothing happened. Sometimes I'd question my own perception.


One of the interesting chapters in the AA Blue Book is written "for the wives" which could really be for any gender now but in that era, it was husband alcoholic and enabling wife. Like you, and my father, it was the other way around. What the authors noticed in the early days of AA was that the men would make progress but then not get better. The wives were "so supportive" and turned out to be enabling which kept the men from experiencing the consequences of their drinking. Economically, it made sense if the men were the wage earners. They'd cover for the husbands and say they were sick instead of hungover as they needed the men to keep their jobs in those days. I think CODA evolved out of this observation. The wives' caretaking was actually hindering their husband's recovery in a way.

They found that someone isn't motivated to stop drinking until they hit bottom and even then sometimes it doesn't happen. They needed these men to wake up feeling so awful after a binge they may want to change. As long as they were reasonably comfortable, they had no motivation to change. They had to hit bottom.

I don't know how your wife will hit bottom. I don't think any of us could see a loved one homeless or in dire straits. We may not be able to let it go that far. But we can start handing over some of the responsibility to them for some things. If this means you decide to end the marriage, well that is a consequence for her behavior.



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Go3737
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2022, 02:41:40 PM »

Stupidly the hardest part here is the money split of disability in a divorce.

One part of me feel she doesn't deserve any of the disability payment (and certainly not by law) because she refuses to stop the drinking or get help for her rages. She is blowing up the marriage so let her pay. I guess it is a manipulation on my part to make divorce very uncomfortable for her and maybe motivate her to get better. She was under the impression that she was entitled to half of it. Now here dreams of a financially secure future alone has been shattered.

On the other hand I feel very guilty putting her in that position since we paid for the policy from marital funds, she is the mother of my children, we've been together for 39 years and I still have very deep feelings for her and dont want to see her suffer anymore than she suffers from her condition.

All said and done, If I didn't give her half I would be very comfortable and she will not.

FOG for sure.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2022, 04:11:13 PM »

I think this depends on the laws and her situation. If the two of you both contributed as a team to the benefit of the family, and she is reasonable with money, then a 50-50 split would seem fair.

However, this isn't the agreement I have seen with BPD and it's not what you have with your wife.  What I have seen with BPD is that it's mostly one spouse doing almost all of it and poor money management is a factor for the pwBPD. In my parents' situation, BPD mother is too impaired to have ever held a job. I don't know if your wife is able to work or not. I know my mother isn't able to and she also mismanages money.

After nearly 40 years of marriage I would assume the two of you are closer to retirement and if your wife has not worked, it could be a challenge to enter the workforce at her age. I don't think you, or the law would let her be in dire straits financially- but she could still potentially do that to herself with any amount of money she has.

I don't know your whole situation so I can't say what to do, but from observing what my mother does with money, I would be inclined to only let her have what she's legally entitled to now- not to punish her or be resentful because, the two of you may need it later in your elder years and if she gets it now, it might not be there when it's needed.

I will share what I think my father did right and what I wish he'd done differently if it were possible. My mother is elderly now. My father is deceased after a long illness. When he first became ill, I feared what my BPD mother would do if left on her own. I knew he wanted her to have all he had earned but I was afraid she'd mismanage it and not use it for when she needs it. I tried to get him to make some kind of arrangement for her finances that might be managed or supervised. He wouldn't let me do that, but it could have been anyone in that position who would be trustworthy.

He didn't and after he passed, BPD mother was left with enough to be comfortable. This is a good thing as she needs a lot of care and supervision. This also turned out to be a gift for us kids, as she doesn't treat us kindly and so we won't be her caregivers, yet, we are glad someone is taking care of her and she has what she needs.

However she's also not being wise with it.

I am glad my father made these arrangement, I just wish she didn't have as much control over it so it was managed better.

I wouldn't hand over extra money to an irresponsible drunk, but I think if you can put it in a savings for your retirement, and then, if you choose to (and she hasn't remarried) you could help her in her elder years ( or also help your kids if they are assisting her)  if you don't need it yourself. In her hands, it might go all to alcohol. In your hands, it could be saved as a safety net for later on.






« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 04:31:30 PM by Notwendy » Logged
Go3737
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2022, 08:50:35 PM »

I am 69. She is 64 and works part-time from the house. She says she is not afraid to work. She was counting on the money for her future life without me. I think it was a justification for splitting up. Now that the reality has set in she is reconsidering how she is treating me.

We've both been sick this week. She with a cold, me with COVID. (dont ask me how that worked). So she has not gone out and gotten her booze. The result is calm and peace for now.

I am hoping that she sees the light and gets the help she needs to save the marriage. I've been told she'll do that just because of the money and not because she loves me and wants to be with me.
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« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2022, 03:09:12 PM »

As your spouse for more than 10 years, she can apply to Social Security and tap into your SSA earnings history without impacting your personal SSA history.

I sometimes observe (can't really joke despite the temptation) I could have married as many as 4 maybe 5 times in the past, 10 years in each instance, and had at least 4 ex-wives and perhaps a widow, all enabled to tap into my earnings history.

Reality is I have just one ex.  Haven't made any progress since.
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2022, 09:19:51 PM »

Update.
All talk of divorce stopped cold as we both got laid out bad with COVID.

Damn we were so careful till Thanksgiving.

Ive been as sick as I've ever been. If not for the vaccine and three boosters I'd be in the hospital, not recovering at home.

She got sick first and started healing when i got sick.
She is the best caretaker. and so far no booze so no rages.

I dont hold out much hope that after this and the holidays pass we wont be back at each others throats.

Wish me luck...

AND WEAR MASKS EVERYWHERE YOU GO!
May have caught it at Thanksgiving dinner or the OUTDOOR Tree lighting event that was quite crowded.

You do not want this disease. Trust me.
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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2022, 12:21:54 AM »

There is quite a difference of opinion on how to approach COVID.  Until the pandemic people were advised to take zinc tablets and vitamins for common viruses.  Mainstream media and the governments advocate only the shots and boosters and never mention prior advice.

I am older, have a bad heart and other chronic issues.  (No marathons for me, not that I ever could before!)  I didn't want to risk further heart damage or reported blood clots, so for almost 3 years I've been taking zinc, magnesium, vitamins D, K and C.  No colds this whole time.  I did get COVID in the summer but besides isolating more intensely it was more like a feverish cold for nearly a week and then some limited lung congestion and evening fevers for another two weeks.  Sorry, I can't mention my other meds, that would be politically incorrect.

So there we have two approaches.  Unfortunately neither side wants to do the other approach.
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« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2022, 08:12:48 PM »

I was referred by someone I trust in the pandemic planning community to take Nattokinase a soy extract to reduce the possibility of mini-clots COVID causes months after infection.  It cant hurt.

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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2022, 12:28:22 AM »

Obviously, blood clots are not good.  There's a D-Dimer test that can indicate whether a person has been breaking down clots.  Over on Rumble (they don't ban, at least not as much as YouTube and other social media) I've seen some videos positive about Lumbrokinase or Nattokinase.  I really don't know much about it.

I really don't know whether or not COVID itself causes an uptick in persistent blood clots.  However, it's been reported that the vaccines have a list of long term negative consequences including clots.  Since anything vaccine related is highly disputed, you should inform yourself before deciding.

Senator Ron Johnson did a "Second Opinion" seminar earlier this year, that might be a good place to start.  This past Wednesday he hosted another series of doctor testimonies, including the Florida Surgeon General.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 12:40:20 AM by ForeverDad » Logged

Go3737
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2022, 10:07:31 PM »

Update in my ongoing alcoholic tinged BPD/NPD/PTSD situation.

Ive been sleeping on the couch recovering from COVID. She had the bedroom. She was getting better so she started taking care of me after i had taken care of her through the worst of it.

So today she wants to go out shopping. Of course I know thats code for lunch and wine which raises all sorts of red flags for me. So she leaves at 11 am. She had asked if i wanted to move to the bedroom before she left so she could prepare it... never mind it wasnt a big deal

She was gone for four hours. I know what she was doing.
As time went on i got sicker and texted her that i felt worse and would head to the bed. She texted ok.

I moved paying close attention to reusing my bedding not to disrupt her sanitation of the house.

As i lie down she comes storming in screaming about her boundaries and privacy being trampled on and that I wasnt in charge. Mind you I am now under covers shivering and feeling like death warmed over. She proceeds to start raging screaming at me how abusive i was to move to the bed. Screaming at the top of her lungs and all I did was whimper please stop I'm so sick. This went on for 15 minutes. I put my fingers in my ears to stop her voice from entering my brain. It got worse and worse and I broke down crying and shaking violently to leave me alone i was so sick. She calmed down. then she walked out of the apartment.  I later found out that before she left she had calmed herself as i was still freaking out, video taped that small section of the event and sent that small snippet to friends saying how crazy i as. Never mind the recording I have of her 15 minutes raging on my in my weakened state.

So the smear campaign begins. Seems i am the abuser and an asshole.

She is staying at a friends house today taking care of them who have covid but letting her 70 year old husband suffer at home alone.

I am done. I cant do this anymore. Her true colors came out today. I cant stay with a woman who does that to her older sick husband. Kicks him in the head when he is at his lowest.



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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2022, 10:01:50 AM »

I saw my mother treat my father the same way and it was very upsetting. You said you were concerned about your kids being upset with you if you divorced their mother, but they are also likely to be upset if they saw this kind of thing too.

They are adults now and will be OK with whatever you decide. This is your decision to make. I naively stepped in to try to "rescue" my father - that was stupid and naiive. My BPD mother responded as "victim", Dad "rescued" her from me. They both got angry at me. But also, at the time, I felt I couldn't do nothing either.

This is your decision to make. Hopefully they will understand but even if they can't- they are not in your circumstances and don't know the whole of it.
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« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2022, 10:42:17 AM »

I just wanted to add this little tidbit.  My undiagnosed BPD husband abused alcohol for 13 years before he quit.  For all those years, I blamed the alcohol for his bad behavior and anger.  When he quit, the anger became significantly worse.  I’m not saying that drinking is ok.  Obviously, it’s not.  But sometimes stopping isn’t the cure. 
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« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2022, 07:48:47 PM »

I am so sorry you are being treated this way ...

My BPD mother stopped drinking 20+ years ago now... But still, last time I visited, my stepfather was sick, coughing. He was cramping, he has very bad back issues, and... I honestly don't think he has much time left... And I have seen her snap at him because he requested she put a specific cream on his back to help with the cramping. While doing it, she kept telling him how an idiot he was, in an angry tone, like his pain and suffering was somehow his fault and he deserved it and she was tired to help him out with it.

I was standing right there and I remember wondering how she was with him when I wasn't there. (I did say something, and found myself needing to leave her house not too long after...  Way to go! (click to insert in post))

I am pretty sure she abused my grandmother too while she lived there... Because my stepfather confessed he would clean any mess my grandmother did before BPD mother got home to prevent the rages. I felt he was somehow scared and trying to protect my grandmother...There is also an event where my grandmother has hurt her foot, and I asked if she has a walker, and she mentioned she had one but couldn't use it. And when I asked my mother at grandma didn't have a walker to help her with her foot, she acted all innocent...    Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) not sure what happened there, but pretty sure I wasn't told everything.

All this to say : stopping alcool doesn't stop the physical and verbal abuse...

The most dangerous my mother was to me, was when I was a young, vulnerable kid... The most dangerous to her mother was when her mother was old and frail...and the most abusive I've seen her on my stepfather is these days, while he is getting frail and sick...

I am not sure why... But this is a pattern I observed with her. Might be that sickness triggers her fear of abandonment via death.. but I think it is also related to power, and a need to be a martyr.

She won't change. Even if she stops drinking.
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« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2022, 08:22:53 PM »

I am so sad at the thought of not spending special occasions with the family intact.

Both very angry and very sad.

I've been behind a closed door in bed recovering since yesterday. She came home today. Hasn't opened the door to see how i am.

Told her friend when i was coughing badly that I was a drama queen and faking.

I hate her now for what she has done.
I dont know what to do.
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2022, 01:03:12 AM »

Most here, once divorced, don't do shared holidays with the kids.  Just too risky for the ex to create incidents or force the event to devolve into Blamefests.

Often custody orders specify that parents alternate holidays.  One solution is to schedule a duplicate holiday (if not your turn for that holiday) on your own parenting time.  Side benefit is the kids get two of each holiday... few kids are saddened to get two, such as two birthdays. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Graduations, weddings and anniversaries can't be doubled, so more planning is needed to avoid predictable "incidents".  Years ago one member married and related she made sure two security guards (off duty policemen) were stationed near her acting-out and center-of-attention PD mother.  That must have been a hoot!  But it worked.
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2022, 05:56:11 AM »

I understand how you feel sad and angry.

How old are your kids? Unless they are very young, I find it hard to believe they don't have a clue what is going on. We knew when BPD mother was drinking, even at a young age. We didn't know about BPD at the time but we could tell when she was drinking or not.

If your kids haven't said anything about it, it may be that they are afraid to or haven't been allowed to (our parents got angry if we did).

It could be that they visit during the holidays but also have some fear of the situation they may be encountering. Holidays with my parents have often been chaotic, due to BPD mother's behaviors.

Seeing that cold side of your wife is a shock.  I suspect your children have as well. They have been living with this too, and if they left home by now, they had about 18 years to see what was going on.

I don't recommend you begin discussing your marriage with them- that would be triangulation. My father didn't cross that line but my mother did, but I would not have told my father what she said. If your kids are older, and considering how long you've been married, I think they must be, you don't have to explain anything to them, and you shouldn't triangulate. They probably know more than you realize.


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