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townhouse
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« on: February 19, 2023, 05:02:09 PM »

I have been on and off this site over the past 15 or so years. I thank the members who have answered my posts in a heart felt way.

Once again I find myself writing here about the relationship I have with my undiagnosed husband of 25 years who, without a doubt, has Borderline Personality Disorder.

We are now both 75 years old. Getting on a bit. Who ever said this disorder gets less as people get older was perhaps being kind. Yes his dysregulations have become less often but when they occur they are no less nasty.

This latest is getting tedious very quickly. We had a blow up about painting a room a week ago. Got over that, sort of, but he is constantly in such a negative mood about the state of the world. Of course he speaks to no one other than me. I’ve been walking on egg shells more than usual lately and this latest piece of nastiness blew up over something so petty... me cooking some onions which he likes done in a certain way.

The hatred on his face as he told me how hopeless I am ( I am actually a really good cook). When I said hang on are you really looking at me like that and saying those things over onions he said ‘Oh stop whining, you’re always whining’... I’m not. I laugh a lot and try to see the best in things.

I sometimes feel I can’t bear to be with him anymore. I think I have lost respect for him. I try to engage with his negative views of politics gently putting my views across and quite often I agree with him.

I think he doesn’t like me anymore if he ever did. He does look after me when he’s in a good mood and then likes nothing better than to be helpful...

I have taken note of and do use all the tools suggested here but sometimes I inadvertently drop my guard and say the wrong thing then nothing can stop a dysreg if it’s going to happen. What a way to live. Thankfully I do have wonderful grownup children with whom I can be completely myself.

I didn’t want to be alone in my old age. Well I guess it’s here and now sometimes I think being alone would be better.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2023, 06:37:52 AM »

Yes his dysregulations have become less often but when they occur they are no less nasty.

This latest is getting tedious very quickly.

I’ve been walking on egg shells more than usual lately and this latest piece of nastiness blew up over something so petty... me cooking some onions which he likes done in a certain way.

The hatred on his face as he told me how hopeless I am ( I am actually a really good cook). When I said hang on are you really looking at me like that and saying those things over onions.

I sometimes feel I can’t bear to be with him anymore. I think I have lost respect for him. I try to engage with his negative views of politics gently putting my views across and quite often I agree with him.

I think he doesn’t like me anymore if he ever did. He does look after me when he’s in a good mood and then likes nothing better than to be helpful...

I have taken note of and do use all the tools suggested here but sometimes I inadvertently drop my guard and say the wrong thing then nothing can stop a dysreg if it’s going to happen. What a way to live. Thankfully I do have wonderful grownup children with whom I can be completely myself.

I didn’t want to be alone in my old age. Well I guess it’s here and now sometimes I think being alone would be better.



I don't know where it's said that BPD gets better over time. I don't think it has with my BPD mother but perhaps everyone is different with this.

Emotionally, I think there's a lot for people to be on edge about- Covid, inflation, and politics. Keep in mind that what your H says is often projections of his own feelings.

On your part, I think it would help to expand your interests and spend some time with people who can be more emotionally matched to you. Sometimes there are women groups who share hobbies, volunteer, church groups, exercise classes so that you do feel some companionship. If he wants to be by himself, then fine.

If you are the cook and he doesn't like the cooking, well too bad. He can cook something else, or eat out. I think it's good to not react to statements like this but also you don't have to tolerate it. Next time, maybe let him cook his own onions.

We don't have to prevent dysregulations by walking on eggshells. I think the idea is to not add to the drama, but you can let him manage his own feelings and disengage from them. If it's not a danger to you, and he's fussing, then let him fuss on his own and go do something else.

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ForeverDad
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2023, 12:07:20 PM »

We are now both 75 years old. Getting on a bit. Who ever said this disorder gets less as people get older was perhaps being kind. Yes his dysregulations have become less often but when they occur they are no less nasty.
I don't know where it's said that BPD gets better over time.

I don't believe there have ever been studies proving BPD gets better over time.  This is probably similar to the concept of old wives tales or unprovable truisms.  I'm sure there are better descriptive phrases but I'm getting older too and can't recall them at the moment.

From what is reported here by our members, poor BPD behaviors generally get worse over time.  And I haven't read anything to dispute that conclusion.

So, what might give the impression things get "better" eventually?
  • It is known that the closer the relationship, the more evident the BPD discord is.  If people get some distance apart, the conflict can decrease.
  • Much of the conflict is over minor children, issues of custody and parenting where the children eventually grow up, move away or age out of the court system.
  • Sadly, divorce seems to be the "less bad" option than sticking around and suffering.  Separation is generally an insufficient approach to gain relief, typically as a step toward divorce.
  • Or maybe some people just give up and live with the discord, giving others the impression it's not as bad as it once was.
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townhouse
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2023, 06:24:16 AM »

Thanks for your answers. I didn’t realise that what I had read about BPD becoming less as one ages was controversial. I’ll try and find the source as I am sure I’ve read that somewhere.

Things have quieted down again. Luckily we have a small country cabin/holiday home in a nice part of the countryside and he’s gone up there for a few days. Last time he went there without me he was giving me the silent treatment and wouldn’t answer my texts or phone calls. I do like to know he’s alright as he had heart surgery last year and I worry he’s going to chop wood or something equally strenuous.  This time in answer to my question ‘was everything OK’ at the place at least he answered Yes.
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townhouse
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2023, 03:15:59 PM »


Well he came back home with the dysreg almost gone...glad to be home. There had been a lot of noise in the countryside near our holiday home. The farmer next door was doing some fencing all the days with his barking dog so  there was moaning about that from husband.  Farmer bad guy, me good guy.

Thanks for reading, just knowing that there are people out there who understand, plus putting my thoughts in writing helps a lot.
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Smedley Butler
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2023, 10:47:40 AM »

I'm 42 and been married for 12 years.  Your story really resonates with me and sound so familiar.  My wife gets utterly disgusted and contemptuous if I disagree with something or display a general negative emotion about something she wants (major blowups have been about bedspreads, children's rooms, house decor, etc), and after she goes nuts, she asks me why I'm so furious about <insert inconsequential issue>.  Of course I'm not furious about the issue, I'm furious at her ridiculous response to me disagreeing.  But that is never acknowledged, and now, twelve years later, she will bring up the time that I completely lost my mind in anger over <insert inconsequential issue>.  And then if i try to tell her that SHE is the one that blew up over the stupid issue, and that my anger was in response to that, she tells me I'm invalidating her feeling and gaslighting her.  This never ending circular insanity and chaos is enough to drive a man to drink. 

Excerpt
I think he doesn’t like me anymore if he ever did.
I have said these exact words about my wife many times.  I dont think she does or ever truly did.
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thankful person
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Formerly known as broken person…


« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2023, 05:55:06 PM »

I don’t think my dbpdw ever liked me either. When we met it felt like she agreed with everything I said, thought, or stood for. She listened in a way my ex never had. I jumped out of the frying pan into the fire when I left him for her. And now that I’m hers, nothing I ever do or say is good enough for her.
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“Maybe I’ll get it right next time…” from “Estranged” by Guns N’ Roses
townhouse
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2023, 01:57:15 AM »

It’s just so sad  thankful person and Smedley butler.that feeling of our partners not really being there for us as we are for them.
 
The latest with my husband and I is that I have traveled to another city to visit my grand children. Does he text or ring.? Never.

As I previously mentioned, he has not been well and I do worry about him. He doesn’t answer even my simple texts of ‘ I’m going good, how are you?’ He even missed sending me a message or a phone call for my birthday. I just get on with life and try to forget about him while we are apart for this 3 weeks.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2023, 05:09:58 AM »

This is sad to read but I have wondered as well- does my BPD mother like anyone?

Here's how I have decided to explain it, but knowing I can't really know what someone else thinks.

My BPD mother seems to have a large emotional need, and seeks to somehow get that need met in various ways. I think this is what occupies her focus most of the time. I think emotionally, she's in "survival" mode and there isn't emotional capacity to focus on other emotions such as caring or liking someone else when one is feeling like this.

It may help to keep in mind that it may not be that they don't like you, but that they don't have the emotional bandwidth to do that or show that. Whether or not they like anyone- it's not possible to know what others are thinking.

I think a trip to see the grandkids is great. Enjoy the visit and don't worry about him. He's a grown adult and can manage on his own.
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SaltyDawg
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2023, 06:07:21 AM »

It’s just so sad  thankful person and Smedley butler.that feeling of our partners not really being there for us as we are for them.
 
The latest with my husband and I is that I have traveled to another city to visit my grand children. Does he text or ring.? Never.

As I previously mentioned, he has not been well and I do worry about him. He doesn’t answer even my simple texts of ‘ I’m going good, how are you?’ He even missed sending me a message or a phone call for my birthday. I just get on with life and try to forget about him while we are apart for this 3 weeks.

I am going to chime in here, and do a #MeToo...

My pwBPD isn't quite as bad (wife).

For the holidays, take for instance this past Valentine's Day, my wife clearly neglected to get anything for me - I bought them for the children, and had her sign them, she was in some kind of funk so they were signed late.  I know she went out later on that day and bought me one later on in the day, and tried to sneak it in on my place setting at the table later on that evening [shame], even though she had a big blow up over a couple's therapy homework assignment the previous day - still unresolved.

My wife never says she 'loves' me, and when she did it was really infatuation from a bygone era in our relationship.

Now I have done an experiment from both my individual therapist, and my current couple's therapist - keep track of the amount of time you do their top two love languages and how much they do of your top two love languages - this is an eye opening experiment.  I suggest you guys might want to try the same...

Ideally the ratio should be around 50:50, but we don't live in an ideal world, so 60:40 is considered okay; however, when it exceeds 80:20 it is not.  My perceived numbers is nowhere near any of those ratios.  Try 74:1 to 165:1 with a mean of 99:1 for me = It is all 'give' to them, and receive at best 'bread crumbs' of affection from them, this is the tale of a codependent, specifically me.*  It wasn't always like this, during the 'hook' love-bombing phase, while there was a risk of me leaving, her effort was twice that of mine, even though I didn't track the specifics back that it was likely a 33:67 ratio in her favor with her hypersexuality and my number one love language is 'touch' - it is part of that 'all' or 'nothing' mentality that they have.

* There can be legitimate scenarios where there's a hundred to one ratio for instance if you are your wife are in hospital and are incapable of performing those love languages - or if one's work takes them away on a business trip - like my livelihood did, where my wife has expressed that my communication was better with her when I was away, than when I was face to face [her communication face to face is the impossible to do 30 hours worth of work per day 'honey do' list, I wind up doing 10-16 hours per day of 'acts of service' her top two love languages, and it is still insufficient to her].  I have found one book that describes that 15 hours per week [not day] is optimal that is split between her and your immediate family unit, and each partner is responsible for doing their share per week +/- 2 hours per week, not happening in my situation.

I am just venting my frustration, on apparently the same topic, with you guys as it seems, at least from my perspective that it is 'all give and no take' even though she gaslights that it is she who is in this situation and I do absolutely nothing, in front of the counselor who told me to do this 'log' in response?  wtf?  My 'work log' with detailed descriptions of my loving acts of service tells me otherwise that only highlights symptom number 9 of 'disassociation'.

Opinions?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2023, 07:09:49 AM »

I think pwBPD have a skewed sense of fairness. To me, it is best explained by the Karpman triangle dynamics and I think the preferred perspective is "Victim". The benefit of "Victim" is to not be accountable. You don't blame the victim, it's not their fault. This avoids shame which is a difficult emotion.

Since "Victim" is the valued perspective in relationships, interactions that don't align with victim may be discounted. I also think their emotional need is very large so what feels like a nice deed from you might be like putting a drop of water into an ocean for them.

I don't think it's possible to change how someone perceives things, and while it may be that we think we are doing something nice for them, they may see it differently.
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seekonlypeace

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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2023, 11:09:55 PM »

townhouse, I read with interest what you said about this disorder getting less as people get older, and others' responses to that.  We are also in our 70s, and I had also read somewhere (I think it was in the Appendix of the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells") that age results in decreased symptoms.  Just now I did a quick Internet search and found two articles about BPD in old age.  The first one is a 2008 study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629076/) that suggests that maybe it gets better through 40s, but might reverse (get worse again) later in old age, but maybe only partially worse.  Earlier studies didn't follow people long enough to find out what happened after age 50.  The second article (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11920-019-1040-1) also points out that not much is known about BPD over age 50, but that the symptoms are expressed differently in old age than at younger ages.  The article talks about "late-onset personality disorder" triggered by placement in a long-term-care facility and/or death of a spouse.  It's hard for me to think about how long-term-care situation would interact with my partner's personality disorder.  I think he would angrily refuse any care, but at some point that might become impossible.  I plan to get some advice ahead of time from the local council on aging organization.  It's good that you and your husband can take vacations from each other to help take the pressure off.  I wish you the best.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2023, 06:23:26 AM »


I think at what drives BPD behaviors is that they are coping mechanisms. Dysfunctional ones, but still a way for pwBPD to manage difficult feelings. In addition, BPD is on a spectrum. So different situations might result in seeing more or less of the BPD behaviors.

The need for assistance in the elder years might lead to more behaviors as an attempt to maintain control and autonomy or it might meet emotional needs and reduce them. I think it can vary depending on the person.
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townhouse
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2023, 11:45:24 PM »


As a follow up to my previous posts. I was away visiting my grandsons for 3 weeks and never heard from Husband until the day before I was due to fly home. This was the text.

“Happy to pick you up tomorrow. Can you text flight details so I can check plane is on time. Safe travelling”

I guess time away from each other can be beneficial.
He is back to his ‘easier’ to get along with self, as long as I surreptitiously stick to the ‘rules.’


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ForeverDad
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2023, 12:29:19 AM »

The old saying, "Distance/absence makes the heart grow fonder" doesn't quite apply to BPD, but it does seem that sometimes time and distance may reduce the conflict but typically the triggers are still there under the surface, and will appear again given some time.
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