Need Help

[Frustrated38]

I've been on here in the past but it's been awhile since I posted.  My wife has done her best to try to destroy every relationship with my side of the family.  My youngest brother is due to be married in less that 2 months and it does require taking a flight to go.  For context, my wife or 4 kids have not seen my brothers or parents for close to 4 years.  It is completely her actions that have caused this but getting a person with NPD to take accountability for that is almost impossible.  She is now making a gigantic stink about me going to the wedding because my brother had the "audacity" to schedule it 2 days after her birthday.  Even though deep down I know how hurt my brother is, he still invited both of us to everything from the rehearsal dinner to the wedding.  She said over her dead body she would go and I'm not even asking her to at this point.  I want to be there for him but of course my NPD wife has said he is a horrible person and has repeatedly wronged her.  Not true at all but I don't even argue at this point, it falls on deaf ears.  I've even compromised with her saying I'd fly down the morning of the wedding and fly back the next morning skipping the rehearsal dinner the day before.  That's still not good enough for her, supposedly this is taking away from celebrating her birthday.  I don't know what to do.  I know my brother and rest of family would be extremely hurt if I wasn't there and it would be a deep wound to heal.  It just feels wrong to give into her emotional ramblings when I know deep down I should be there.  He's been my little brother for 33 years, I can give him one day.  Any suggestions on how to handle this?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hey Frustrated38, glad you reached out again.

One way to think about it is:

she's going to be unhappy no matter what you do, because her feelings have nothing to do with what other people do; they come from inside of her.

I suspect it's also fallacious to hope that "if you just didn't go at all", she'd "finally" be happy. I think you can picture that you not going (or continually shaving off parts of the trip) isn't really going to make her at peace, not angry, etc.

You not going won't be the "magic wand" where she's like "aha! Now I finally know for sure that Frustrated38 is committed to me, and cares about my birthday. Now I can move forward without ever questioning his loyalty again".

We both know that wouldn't happen.

Until she chooses to work on and manage her own feelings, she's likely to have any number of intense reactions to things you do.

One way you can put that responsibility back on her is to follow through with your own choices, regardless of how big her reaction/protest is. Otherwise, it teaches her that her feelings are your responsibility  and are dependent on what you do -- which isn't true.

You going will gift her an opportunity to regulate her emotions without using demands on you as the way to do it.

What do you think?

[Frustrated38]

Thank you Kells for the insightful, well thought out reply.  I do appreciate it.  You are right, deep down I know I have to stay firm with going to this but it just gets so hard when your NPD wife is constantly berating you, especially as the day gets closer, saying that by going to this you are not "putting your wife" first, etc.  As if I don't have her and the kids in my thoughts for my actions almost 100% of the time.  It is just really tough doing this alone and I never thought I'd feel this lonely being married with 4 kids at 42 years of age.  She's a wonderful mother and we have 4 great kids but for some reason she needs this constant validation and drama with my family in her life.  I've learned not to react like I used to to her tantrums but it gets exhausting always trying to manage her.  I try not to worry about her reactions to thing but I am human and as much as I put on a tough face, it hurts inside.  I think that is saddest thing about our relationship, I'd love to really let her in but I just don't trust her to take my true self and try to manipulate my feelings.

[Emaanbillah]

Hi Frustrated,
It sounds like you are feeling cornered between placating your w and attending your brother's wedding.

While the decision will be up to you, for the sake of consistency, I would suggest that you hold on to whichever decision you make.

Prior to making the decision, you can certainly acknowledge her feelings, verbalize your own feelings and why this is also important to you, and offer the plan.

Do you think offering her to celebrate her birthday in the same city as your brother's wedding will be helpful?

Decide what would be the boundaries for you, try setting them with some leeway for you for final negotiation. Plan your conversation and use DEARMAN technique to avoid her from derailing you from the point.

[thankful person]

Hi frustrated,
Definitely go to your little brother’s wedding and have an excellent time, you won’t regret it! I have been working on rebuilding relationships with my family over the past couple of years and I have never regretted upsetting my wife over it. It has really been good for my confidence and mental health and I’ve also stopped making excuses for her and just admitted to my family that she’s often difficult, unreasonable, irrational etc. It has helped me to feel less isolated. Kells is absolutely right, your wife will be annoyed/angry/upset no matter what you do. In my wife’s case, if I so much as suggest something then depending on her frame of mind she might say, “I can’t believe you even suggested going to your brother’s wedding right after my birthday! You might as well go because you’ve ruined my birthday already by even considering it!” This used to be enough to make me change my plans playing ridiculous mind games to try and please her. But now I’m just like, “yes I’m sorry I’ve ruined your birthday like usual. It’s important to me to be at my brother’s wedding.” It has become easier over time.

[Frustrated38]

Thank you for all the great replies. So tough to stay strong when she’s in disregulation mode like she has been since last night. It’s 5 weeks away now and she’s using all her usual threats saying if I don’t cancel the flight now, I don’t love her, blah blah blah. I’m holding strong but it’s tough to take the verbal assaults ( even though I know anyone that would talk like that to their spouse really just hates themself inside). It had been quiet the last few weeks until the explosion last night. Trying to weather the storm but April is going to be rocky.  Wife’s bday and his wedding 2 days apart. Wish me luck, I’ll need it for the five weeks! 

[Frustrated38]

Another point:  anybody notice how toxic life coach’s are for people with BPD?  It almost reinforces their horrid behavior because the life coach is surface level and never really challenges my wife in any way. My wife talks to one and even though  the coach is a good person with good intentions, it’s the worst thing for her. She needs a real shrink that can cut through the BS. Same goes with her friends that just solidify her nonsense. It’s tough being the only person that says hold on a sec, that is not true.  Sorry needed to vent again rough night and morning so far.

[Notwendy]

My view on this is a bit different because it's from being an adult child of a BPD mother and father who has been in similar situations.

First, you do have my empathy for your situation and I understand how difficult it is to say no to your wife and go to that wedding, as I have a BPD mother with NPD traits and saying "no" to her is extremely difficult. However, appeasing her also doesn't solve the problems in the long run because, it reinforces her controlling behavior. This kind of behavior is driven by her own anxiety. Your going to the wedding raises her anxiety for some reason ( may not be a logical one) and so she will attempt to stop you from going to ease that anxiety. Reasoning with her, ( only going for part of it) isn't helping because this is emotional for her, not logical, so reasoning doesn't help. The only thing that will temporarily ease her anxiety is for you to not go at all. However, since the cause of her anxiety is her own feelings, not anything you do, this is a temporary fix for that moment, not the next ones and it also reinforces her behavior that you have to do something or not do something to ease it the next time. But it's not about anything you do or not do, it's her seeing an external reason for her own feelings.

I don't know of any kind of solution that's going to make everyone happy. Of course your family will feel hurt if you don't go, because you matter to your family. This isn't OK and you know it. A reasonable spouse would not insist you forgo your family for them. Your wife is not invested in them, you are. You are not going to be able to convince her that it's OK for you to go to the wedding. You are the one who has to decide it's important enough for you to stand up for it regardless of her reaction.

It's about boundaries. How far are you willing to compromise your values to avoid your wife's reaction. Now, if her reaction will cause you or your children physical harm or herself,  that's a different situation which needs professional intervention beyond the realm of this discussion. If it's to get angry, rage, cause a scene, that can be pretty rough.

It all comes down to your boundaries. What is worth standing up for- even if it is difficult. You already know it isn't OK to miss your brother's wedding. I know this isn't easy and I wish you the best with this. I hope you choose to stand up for your relationship with your brother.

[Frustrated38]

Thank you NotWendy.  I have made up my mind that I am going to the wedding no matter what.  As you said appeasing her only reinforces her controlling behavior.  It is very difficult but if I don't adhere to my values, I feel like I'm losing a part of myself and that's not fair to me.  This is also a selfless act (in my opinion) in going to my brother's wedding and being there with my family and whether she agrees or not, I wish she could see that.

[Notwendy]

.  This is also a selfless act (in my opinion) in going to my brother's wedding and being there with my family and whether she agrees or not, I wish she could see that.

Even if you wanted to do something for yourself, it would be OK. If she thinks it's selfish, that doesn't make it true. Something doesn't need to be selfless to be acceptable and one can confuse "self less" with "no sense of self " which is going too far.

[thankful person]

Good luck, I don’t envy you but I hope you enjoy the time with your family. I now have very low expectations of my wife having a good birthday so I’m sure your acceptance of this reality at least means it won’t be as bad as you think. I’m dreading my wife turning 30 this year because of course her expectations will be even higher. But if I can’t make her happy on a regular day then how would I manage it on her birthday?

[Frustrated38]

Well, she's still acting like a petulant toddler.  My 10 year old daughter acts more mature than she does when she gets in these spirals.  I'm trying to brush it off but it's not easy when she's hurling insults at me, my parents, my brothers, etc. over incidents that she from the past that she was the main cause of.  She'll never admit that but she was, it's really frustrating.  My parents haven't seen their grandkids in almost 4 years and I think it's slowly killing my mom.  She's a very loving non dramatic person and she'd do anything to fix this but the goalposts for "fixing" this relationship seem to keep getting moved by my wife.  She is a mentally broken person, there is deep trauma in there and she'll continually blame anything she can on my family. 

[Notwendy]

It's interesting that you observed this with your 10 year old daughter. I recall feeling this way too. I was about 12, and we were at the dinner table and I was telling my father about something I learned at school that day. Dad seemed interested in what I was saying. BPD mother started to act all cute and silly- seemingly to get the attention back to her. I had this moment of "I am acting more mature than my mother" which was puzzling to me.

Keep in mind that for your 10 year old-  being emotionally more mature in ways does not mean she's fully grown. She needs to be able to be a kid too.

[thankful person]

My 3 year old has delayed speech, but she knows exactly what she’s getting at when she tells my wife, “calm down Mummy!” Sometimes when things are getting heated between us, my daughter will come to me and quietly put her hand over my mouth. I rarely shout in front of the children, but it’s more about her reminding me not to JADE. 3 years old. It breaks my heart. I also struggle with the effect my wife’s selfishness has on my own mother, in making it so difficult to have a relationship with her grandchildren.

[Notwendy]

With my BPD mother, I think enabling this kind of behavior served to perpetuate it. I know that my father probably gave in to it, just to get some kind of peace. When she wants something, she's persistent, and her behavior crosses the line of what we could deal with. It is so much easier to just give in but that also reinforced the behaviors that get them what they want.  I find it very difficult to say no to my BPD mother.

And it's so much easier to say no to the other family members because, we won't react that way. But that doesn't make it OK to do so. Still it seems to be the choice of the partner anyway- they are the ones dealing with the reaction. We were all enlisted in that goal of keeping mother from dysregulating (not that it was always possible to do so).

My best advice is to stand up for your own boundaries and values because, giving in will reinforce the behaviors. These "wants" are presented as individual possible solutions. "We need this vacation to save the marriage" type of thing or if you go to this wedding you will be responsible for making them feel bad but going on that one vacation, or not going to that wedding isn't the one solution.