New Member- How to keep going

[MatchaGirl]

I’m new to this board. This is my first post.
My husband was diagnosed with BPD and bipolar after years of marriage counselors and therapists.
I won’t go into the dynamics of how the BPD plays out in our relationship because it seems like the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde Cycle is a common theme here.
It’s been a year and a half since his diagnosis. He sees his psychologist and psychiatrist regularly and takes his medications every day. (I see it.)
But there’s not been much change in the cycle. I don’t see him implementing the techniques the doctors give him for grounding and de-escalating.
And I’m asking myself a lot of questions about the future of our marriage. All of the things I read about having a relationship with someone with BPD make me feel like I have to be practically supernatural to be in this relationship- to set aside the pain this has caused me and be some hybrid of Wonder Woman, Mr. Rogers and Oprah.
And I’m just not.
Am I being unrealistic in expecting bigger changes by now?
What are signs of improvement?
Are there any real life examples of marriages that didn’t just survive but found happiness?
How did you do it?

Signed,
Definitely Not Wonder Woman Mr. Rogers or Oprah

[ForeverDad]

It’s been a year and a half since his diagnosis. He sees his psychologist and psychiatrist regularly and takes his medications every day. (I see it.)
But there’s not been much change in the cycle. I don’t see him implementing the techniques the doctors give him for grounding and de-escalating.

So he's going through the motions but apparently not much more?  Have you met with his doctors and discussed his lack measurable improvement?  Probably they can listen to your concerns, but he would of course have to approve whether they can tell you anything.

As for meds, they may help moderate his behaviors but it is crucial that he apply meaningful therapy in his life, actions and perceptions.  Others here can confirm that merely attending sessions is not enough.  And even if he does diligently apply the therapy, he will likely always have some perceptions and behaviors that don't fully resolve, just to a lesser extent.

Are you sure he's swallowing the meds?  A common reported behavior with any mood modifying drug is that the side effects become wearisome or more over time.

As for what you do going forward, a major consideration is whether you have children together.  First concern, the children do see the dysfunction.  Second concern, having children complicates divorce with custody and parenting issues.

[MatchaGirl]

Thank you for your response!

I do believe he’s swallowing the meds because 30 minutes later, his eyes go glassy and he’s out like a light. He’s also gained weight. Before meds, he rarely ever slept or gained weight.

I like your suggestion of my speaking with the doctors. I’m not sure how that will go over with him but at this point, what’s there to lose.

We do have a child and I am deeply struggling with what will hurt her the least. No matter what, she’s going to experience pain. I do my best to shield her from Mr. Hyde but she knows. Kids are smart. But she’s also deeply attached to her dad. Separating will bring its own pain and trauma to her.

I’ve thought of a trial legal separation to give him space to see if he’ll start implementing techniques, but in all honesty, I doubt reconciliation would be possible after that. I can only imagine what that sense of abandonment would trigger in him.

Thank you again for your thoughtful response!

[livednlearned]

We do have a child and I am deeply struggling with what will hurt her the least. No matter what, she’s going to experience pain. I do my best to shield her from Mr. Hyde but she knows. Kids are smart. But she’s also deeply attached to her dad. Separating will bring its own pain and trauma to her.

That's sort of where I focused too when I began trying to figure things out, whether to stay or go and how it would affect our son. I mentioned to a therapist how much anxiety and stress and dread I was feeling and she said, "Imagine how your son is processing the same." 

I took my son (7 at the time) to visit with a child psychologist. Actually 2. The first one did a personality assessment using structured and unstructured prompts. He was a wonderful psychologist and my son liked going (4 sessions). The outcome of that was a lengthy personality assessment that demonstrated things in our family I found truly surprising to hear. It was like the psychologist had lived in our house for several years, watching what went on. That psychologist determined S9 to be "at risk."

I took him to another child psychologist when my son was 9. She met with me, then met with S9, and determined he did not have a bond with his dad.

Regardless of what you do, I think it's essential that someone in the family is getting therapeutic support to process what's happening. In retrospect I wish I had done family counseling with my son, just the two of us. It ended up moving in that direction almost by accident, and those sessions were priceless. But I don't know if it was so profound because of my own healing and what I had come to terms with, or whether it was development age-appropriate stuff.

Do you think your daughter feels safe?

One thing you have in your situation that I didn't have is that things are in the open. You have a diagnosis (or two). Does your daughter know about these diagnoses and how they affect her dad?

[MatchaGirl]

My daughter is only 4 so communicating is hit and miss. But she has found a way to tell us how she feels. She told us that “daddy has a dragon inside of him”.
It was heartbreaking to hear but also a relief that she can identify it in a way that makes sense to her. Makes it a bit easier to discuss.

I’ve not taken her to a therapist officially but I’ve discussed her experiences and any behavioral concerns with my therapist and I have a therapist friend who unofficially keeps an eye on her.

I know I should be thankful that there’s a diagnosis and meds and everything is out in the open but it’s been over a year and not much has changed. Our marriage still hangs by a thread. And everyday I question the difference between genuine hope and false hope.

[livednlearned]

I believe experts who say BPD is stigmatized in part because many therapist haven't known how to help. Over the years I've changed my mind about whether someone with BPD can be cured, or whether it's more about symptoms going into regression. Most of the research on BPD seems to be about treating suicidal ideation and self-harm. There aren't a lot of (or any?) studies about minimizing the maladaptive behaviors to the point it's easy to live with that person.

DBT is perhaps the most evidence-based treatment but it's quite rigid and demands high compliance.

But there are other methods, and experts seem to agree it can take years, anywhere from 5-10 before symptoms go into regression, with weekly visits (sometimes 2-3 times) with strict rules about not canceling and being on time.

Driving all this the person with BPD accepting the dx and then being committed to recovery.

There is another approach which is to look at family systems and family skills approaches (like Alan Fruzetti's work, or NEA-BPD Family Connections) that tries to help family members understand BPD behaviors so small changes create a more tolerable home environment, not exacerbating the BPD but of course not curing it either.

I think we also have to look at the specifics of our own capacities. Many of us reach the final stage of relationship where there is so much damage. We become so severely damaged that it can feel insurmountable to get the relationship to the place where it needs to be. I could do a better job now, after a decade in therapy and time alone. But in the marriage? No.

If you have a dangerous BPD spouse, that's a different story again. I'm speaking for myself when I say this because it's not as easy as saying get out, but for me it was delusional to think the marriage could survive when the threat level is high. At that point, the sole focus in safety. It's not walking on egg shells at that point, it's walking on razors.

If your spouse is not dangerous, then the tough path is figuring out whether you are ok being married to what is in effect a grown child. He may hold down a job and put his own trousers on and tie his own shoes but developmentally there was some kind of interruption that prevented him from individuating properly and getting past the needs, wants, and fears that stopped that from happening. His waking efforts are spent repeating something in the past and grafting it onto interactions in the present. There is a stage, a scene, a script and you are an actor cast in roles from his story. Lucky us, we are a bit more in the present, and can recognize that good people occasionally do bad things, and bad people can become better. It's not so easy for people with BPD. They have to trust in a reality that is just a hair out of reach and that's a big leap to take.

It's not an easy choice.

I had to wait until the choice was made for me. It's not uncommon to coast.

What is great in your situation is that you know what you're dealing with and there are so many good resources to help guide you through, whether it's to learn new skills to help yourself or to choose to live separately or both.

[MatchaGirl]

Thank you! Truly. For speaking so honestly and delicately.
I’ll look into the family systems approach you mentioned. That sounds  helpful.
 I can see and admit that at times I could handle things better and don’t. It is an extremely difficult thing to navigate a BPD episode when I’m in so much pain from all of the other episodes.
He’s not physically violent and doesn’t threaten violence.
But the verbal and emotional abuse have taken their toll. I’ve recently learned to set boundaries against that. I’m not perfect at it and I feel a lot of embarrassment for the years I didn’t recognize it for what it was and tolerated it.
Anyway, I ramble.
Thank you for “listening” And for some resources and a sharing your journey!

[ForeverDad]

He’s not physically violent and doesn’t threaten violence.
But the verbal and emotional abuse have taken their toll. I’ve recently learned to set boundaries against that.

Just because the abuse is verbal and emotional doesn't make it "less bad" than physical abuse.  Sometimes it seems so because there aren't physical cuts and bruises, but the effects are deep and devastating.

Before I came here I thought Boundaries were placed on the one behaving improperly.  However people with BPD (pwBPD) resist boundaries.  Therefore, your boundaries probably will have to be your boundaries you place on yourself.  More specifically, your boundaries as stated to your spouse would be what you will do in response to poor behavior.  Read the two topics on Boundaries here on the Tools & Skills workshop board:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0

[Torimagic]

“to set aside the pain this has caused me and be some hybrid of Wonder Woman, Mr. Rogers and Oprah.”

This is just perfect! I completely feel the same. My person just did something reallllly hurtful and thinking of all the things that I can say to express my hurt but to not upset her in the process which is impossible. I feel like I need to be a superhuman magical being. It’s so hard.

[MatchaGirl]

“to set aside the pain this has caused me and be some hybrid of Wonder Woman, Mr. Rogers and Oprah.”

This is just perfect! I completely feel the same. My person just did something reallllly hurtful and thinking of all the things that I can say to express my hurt but to not upset her in the process which is impossible. I feel like I need to be a superhuman magical being. It’s so hard.

Oh I’m so sorry! I can deeply commiserate.  the pain is real and the mountain seems insurmountable. I’ve signed up for the friends/family support program one of the above posters sent. I’ve not started the program yet but their website is giving me some tips and comfort.

[Priority1]

Don't let yourself feel like you are not the one doing or being enough. Especially if he is not practicing the techniques of de-escalation and grounding. I'm not familiar with the recovery aspect of BPD as I am new to this myself. However, I am a recovering alcoholic for 4 years and I can say that "programs only work if you work em". I know there are several medications used to treat the symptoms of BPD, maybe a different combination/strength? I also believe that medications are used to treat the symptoms (emotional outbursts) whereas therapy (de-escalation, grounding, changing perspective) is used to treat the disease.

The questions you're asking about your marriage are normal. I would say your already qualified as "Wonder Woman" for what you've endured already, don't question your strength. I tried to make my relationship work for three years. I had to finally accept that I wasn't the cause of my ex's emotions. I was told that I could end my relationship and deal with the "short-term" pain or I could continue the relationship and live the rest of my life in pain. I will say that despite the issues I have now after separating, I feel like I have my life back and the weight that was lifted off of me was incredible!

Best of Luck!

[Joaquin]

Hi!
Your post resonates with me. I have an uBPDw and we have a daughter age 2.5. My wife is high functioning so other ppl in her life think she’s normal and mature, but her BPD has done so much damage to me with its emotional blackmail. For the first 2 years I completely lost myself in her constant criticisms and FOG, killing myself in hyper vigilance to try to please her which never worked. Year 3 I hit my breaking point after our daughter was born and my wife got injured; I was WFH full time, taking care of the baby all by myself, taking care of the house and cooking and taking care of my wife, and with all that she still managed to be controlling and demanding. It all started pouring out of me which she took as another persecution, but it did start to set some messy limits. Year 4 I learned about the BPD and things have improved A LOT.

My story is both encouraging and discouraging. Weve made a lot of progress and it’s nothing like the beginning, which was a pure living nightmare for me. We can enjoy each other and have some good quality time.

That said, her dysfunction still pops up and gives me ownership for her feelings and anything she perceives as a slight and god forbid if there’s an actual argument. We just had another conflict and she’s dysregulating hard rn.

It seems I can never really relax and let my guard down; I have to stay focused on the BPD and remain a perfectly zen, nonreactive emotional caretaker. When I think about the long term I have a really hard time seeing how I can sustain this. Idk what will happen. The idea of splitting up scares me for our daughter and finances, but I also know it’d be much healthier for me to be alone.

Some days I feel like my story is encouraging, some days cautionary. But the progress we’ve made makes it feel like at least a possibility that we can hold it together for the long haul.

And I’m asking myself a lot of questions about the future of our marriage. All of the things I read about having a relationship with someone with BPD make me feel like I have to be practically supernatural to be in this relationship- to set aside the pain this has caused me and be some hybrid of Wonder Woman, Mr. Rogers and Oprah.
And I’m just not.
Am I being unrealistic in expecting bigger changes by now?
What are signs of improvement?
Are there any real life examples of marriages that didn’t just survive but found happiness?
How did you do it?

Signed,
Definitely Not Wonder Woman Mr. Rogers or Oprah