Ejector seat

[ViciousCircle]

  Really really struggling with a partner of 20 years who increasingly trampled my boundaries and red lines to point I need to escape as it's suffocating hypocrisy,  I believe they are BPD and ill and trying to get them help from a qualified therapist or Dr.

To get some respite I have a video chat and meet with friends a couple of times a week l, I have offered to include partner in this if they wish and spend one drink money for coffee, soda or beer so it's not expensive and nothing untoward.

I have asked them to seek help when they are calm with therapist / doctors and they smirk, as I believe their behaviour to be escalating to point they will make situation impossible and then scapegoat anyone to avoid responsibility of their destructive behaviour.

Said I will support them to get medical help or set up independently, if that is what they want-they come up with narrative that it is all my fault and I am so terrible, don't leave me.
(I believe deescalation and support to live independently is help as support and far from abandonment)

There seems to be a fixation on I'm the worst of the worst-but I must not leave no matter how badly they treat me.

[ForeverDad]

There seems to be a fixation on I'm the worst of the worst-but I must not leave no matter how badly they treat me.

Why?  Why must you not leave no matter how badly they treat you?

You've offered solutions but those have been rejected.

The way you've been treated is evidently terrible, you're in distress, so why can't you leave or separate yourself to regain peace?

[ViciousCircle]

Why?  Why must you not leave no matter how badly they treat you?

You've offered solutions but those have been rejected.

The way you've been treated is evidently terrible, you're in distress, so why can't you leave or separate yourself to regain peace?

I don't believe our children deserve the negative effects of a broken home and by throwing in the towel, I believe I will fuel and further enable the "you abandoned me" BPD behaviour and lose oversight of impressionable children.

[ForeverDad]

I don't believe our children deserve the negative effects of a broken home and by throwing in the towel, I believe I will fuel and further enable the "you abandoned me" BPD behaviour and lose oversight of impressionable children.

I will address your concerns one by one.

She claims you would abandon her, yet it is her very behaviors that are pushing you away.

Rather than lose oversight of impressionable children, you would probably set a better example for them by not appeasing so much.  Remember, when they grow up they'll seek out their own adult relationships.  Quite possibly they wouldn't be as healthy as they ought to be if they see her as controlling and unreasonable and you as appeasing and walking on eggshells.  If you continue on this path of dysfunctional coexisting, they may seek some example they're comfortable with... someone unreasonable like her... or someone too accommodating and suffering like you.

Yes there can be negative effects of a broken home when the breakup is on relatively minor issues.  But you know your adult relationship is highly dysfunctional and unhealthy.  Even if you protect them from most of the conflict, the kids are still impacted since "the walls have ears".

There are many here too who viewed divorce as a disaster, I was one of them.  I was married for about 15 years and the last couple years I suffered with divorce threats, whipsawing ups and downs, even threats she'd disappear and I'd never see my preschooler again.  The ups became fewer and the downs more common.  I'd go off to work wondering whether the calm spouse I'd left would be a raging one when I returned.  Other days I'd go off to work wondering whether the raging spouse I'd left would be a calm one when I returned.  Predictably unpredictable.

Then one weekend I called the police and the two officers responded, interviewing us separately.  They gave her a booklet on DV and me they asked me to hand our quietly sobbing son of to her and to step away.  Didn't look good for me.  We got past that and later CPS stood up in court and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  The rest is a long, long story but as much as I feared divorce it was really a protection for me and my child.  About that day when a little boy wouldn't go to his angry parent...

I called emergency services when my ex threatened my life, both before the call and afterward.  Fortunately I could discern her growing rage that day and it was recorded.  However, the speaker didn't work, I think the headphone jack was messed up, and no one heard it that day.  The officers spoke more with her than with me.  Then when one came to me, he asked me to pass my preschooler (quietly sobbing in my arms) to his mother and "step away".  Months later my lawyer's comments about that day connected the dots for me, that I was about to be carted away, perhaps even being arrested.  He said the police officers' first priority is to defuse the immediate situation, in my area that's taking away one of the spouses.  Well, when I tried to comply, my 3yo son screeched and clung tighter to me.  My spouse was just fuming at me.  I turned to the officer and shrugged as though "I tried."  He stared at me for a long moment, said "work it out" and they left.  I now say, My son saved me that day.

Here's a post I made years ago.  That member's dilemma may not have been exactly what you're dealing with, so not everything may apply in your case.  Ponder the various aspects that do apply.  What you do is your decision, we here in peer support can only relate our experiences, what we've learned, and address your concerns with our collective hard-won experience.

The only advice that I can give you is that you must take some sort of action or action will be taken for you and you may or may not like the results, but you will have to live with them.

I think this is the principle where... .Inaction is a choice too.  Do you want that choice or would some other choice be better?

I believe most of us here tried to stay, until it became impractical, impossible or even dangerous.  (I was one of the many high conflict cases facing endless allegations meant to sabotage us and our parenting.)  Perhaps you can stay and manage things?  You have to ponder whether that is possible or even practical.  Is your situation low conflict or increasing conflict?  Is there risk of it worsening?  (Another truism about increased conflict:  If allegations or obstruction has been threatened or even contemplated, then it will happen, given enough time.)

The only ways things can get better are:  (1) You establish solid boundaries and she abides by them.  This does not mean you tell her to do or not do things.  That doesn't work, the BPD pattern is to steamroll over or bust boundaries, it's like a challenge.  Rather, your boundaries are what You will do or not do.  Example:  "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  Does that make sense?  Your boundaries are how you will respond to her actions, particularly her poor actions and behaviors.

Or (2) she lets a therapist or counselor disarm her Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting enough so she will listen to expert therapy (usually DBT, CBT or similar), apply it diligently in her life, thinking, perceptions, moods and behaviors, and do so long term, possibly for the rest of her life if need be.  Sorry, she can't attend a few sessions and declare herself recovered.

If she doesn't do either of the above then odds are the marriage and relationship is failing or has failed.  Then it is up to you to Accept that fact.  Then your decisions need to move forward from there.  Keep in mind this is always your decision to make, we're here to provide information, education and, of course, peer support.  We've lived through it, we have a huge amount of collective wisdom to share.  Just keep asking and learning.  In time you will find you can make more informed and more confident decisions.

Often we parents feel it is best to stay together "for the kids".  (Don't guilt yourself, nearly all here started out with concerns and ethics dealing with that.  Unfortunately, in many of our cases that is an uninformed and unbalanced perspective.)  Well, if the family dynamic is unhealthy or dysfunctional, staying together may turn out to be reinforcing that family dynamic as normal.  In other words, do we want the kids to feel this current situation is 'normal'?  If this is all they will have known growing up, how will they become prepared for balanced adult life?  How will they become prepared to be reasonably normal adults and choose reasonably normal adults as their marriage mates?  Most of us have been acquiescing appeasers and the disordered spouse the demanding tyrant ruled by erratic moods and emotional perceptions.  Not a great mix.  Which parent do you want them to be like, appeasing you or the controlling other parent?  Who do you want them to marry, someone like appeasing you or someone like the controlling other parent?

Another problem you'll face is second-guessing yourself wondering whether divorce is the right thing to do.  Ponder that well and resolve that now, for yourself and for the kids, because the stress and push-back you get during the months ahead will surely test your resolve and decisions.

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Staying together would mean that's the only example of home life they would have known — discord, conflict, invalidation, alienation attempts, overall craziness, etc.  Over 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation (the earliest quote I could find) on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives going forward, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.  And some of the flying monkeys too.

[SinisterComplex]

I don't believe our children deserve the negative effects of a broken home and by throwing in the towel, I believe I will fuel and further enable the "you abandoned me" BPD behaviour and lose oversight of impressionable children.

FD provided great perspective as usual so I do not need to go too in depth here. So I will be succinct and ask you to expound on why you feel there will only be negative effects if you were to leave?

Additionally, ponder this...do your children not deserve to see you at your best and your happiest? You want them to see the best version of you correct? Can you be honest and say you are happy and that you are able to be the best version of yourself with your children?

My friend...all I am asking for is some critical thought. By all means, please take no offense as what I am doing here is opening more discussion and perhaps a different perspective.

In the meantime please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC

[ViciousCircle]

Thank you for your replies and many months ago I spoke to a mens domestic violence charity about my partners gaslighting and it was suggested I change the locks on the property I own by lady on phone- I am responsible for my inability to act.

The problem I have and I accept that grabbing a nettle isn't nice being children innocent in this.
I also accept that a corrosive environment isn't healthy for children either.
In one of her calm phases I have talked and discussions that I don't have to do everything her way, in fact if so dreadful being with me she could do better separately.

Her friends a doctor or nurse in A&E at hospital has somehow talked her into doctors appointment.

I believe person only changes when they are willing or able, your experiences suggest that my strategy will be see what doctors intervention has and eject myself from situation if no improvement for own and children's welfare.

My concerns disengaging if needed without provoking the situation and instability for my children.

Will make contact with council to understand how it works if I need to change locks at later date.

Thank you for replying and sharing experiences, validation that I shouldn't be putting up with toxic situation with an unwell person.

[livednlearned]

My ex was violent and nothing changed until I did.

Not all people with BPD are violent. Some people with BPD react in violent ways because violence becomes a way to manage BPD. It becomes tolerated by people around them. Many of us lose our capacity to think clearly when we're under threat, even when it's intermittent.

If violence has gone on for a while, it starts to become a solution to a problem.

Asking someone with BPD to regulate emotions and make good choices when the disorder does everything to prevent that is sort of like asking a cat to bark.

Your partner gets to behave how they want and there are seemingly no consequences. Why should they change?

At an NEA-BPD Family Connections session the facilitators (volunteer family members with severely BPD loved ones) said repeatedly that we cannot change people with BPD, but we can change ourselves, and that can change our BPD loved ones.

Change your behaviors for you, and maybe those changes will change her. No guarantees.

Your partner feels enabled to act badly and there are no consequences. It can feel terrifying to be this out of control (despite smirks or protests to the contrary).

When you ensure your own safety, and the safety of your kids (they are being harmed as witnesses), you begin to reclaim a small piece of control over an untenable situation.

Mostly what kids care about when growing up in a violent household is safety.

Safety, safety, safety, safety.

Everything else is secondary.