What do I do? Pretrial Mediation

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

  In January my ex blindsided me with a restraining order after 2 days of begging me to take her snowboarding. We had been in the process of "splitting" since my parents visited for Thanksgiving and I spoke to them about what I had been enduring the last year. Daily accusations of me being unfaithful towards her, not being there enough emotionally, and having to put up with her emotional abuse. She had told me months earlier that if I didn't tell her "when I was going to propose to her", she would move and I'd never see our unborn (at the time) son.

Well, I didn't propose to her and she has moved to another state with my son, taken my dog, and claimed that I was abusing all three of them. She never showed up to court for the restraining order in my state however, she filed for another one in another state and it was granted...I appeared to fight it, without representation, the judge looked me in the eyes and told me it would have nothing to do with me seeing my son, so I agreed (my biggest mistake yet). It's one of the biggest "facts" -the lawyer, said I have against me.

I never did anything to threaten or harm my ex. I spent 3 years of my life trying to convince the person that I loved that I wasn't a terrible person. That's something that I have to live with and I need to figure out, why I was willing to love someone who abused me. I have evidence (voice recordings, text messages, video, vet statements, AKA registration) all showing either that she's lied or a pattern of behavior of her not letting me leave the house for work, one night I had to jump off our 2nd story balcony ( the video).

We're done with the court-ordered mediation. We have sent a proposal to my ex and haven't heard anything back. I don't think that she is going to agree and I've about lost all hope that we will be able to agree on something outside of court. I don't know what my options are but I feel that going to trial is going to be my only chance of telling my side of the story. Is this when an evaluator will get involved, a GAL, or something? It feels like this whole thing is going to end without me getting to say anything.

Any help/advice from anyone about what comes next? what to do? words of encouragement...Thanks!

[Priority1]

  In January my ex blindsided me with a restraining order after 2 days of begging me to take her snowboarding. We had been in the process of "splitting" since my parents visited for Thanksgiving and I spoke to them about what I had been enduring the last year. Daily accusations of me being unfaithful towards her, not being there enough emotionally, and having to put up with her emotional abuse. She had told me months earlier that if I didn't tell her "when I was going to propose to her", she would move and I'd never see our unborn (at the time) son.

Well, I didn't propose to her and she has moved to another state with my son, taken my dog, and claimed that I was abusing all three of them. She never showed up to court for the restraining order in my state however, she filed for another one in another state and it was granted...I appeared to fight it, without representation, the judge looked me in the eyes and told me it would have nothing to do with me seeing my son, so I agreed (my biggest mistake yet). It's one of the biggest "facts" -the lawyer, said I have against me.

I never did anything to threaten or harm my ex. I spent 3 years of my life trying to convince the person that I loved that I wasn't a terrible person. That's something that I have to live with and I need to figure out, why I was willing to love someone who abused me. I have evidence (voice recordings, text messages, video, vet statements, AKA registration) all showing either that she's lied or a pattern of behavior of her not letting me leave the house for work, one night I had to jump off our 2nd story balcony ( the video).

We're done with the court-ordered mediation. We have sent a proposal to my ex and haven't heard anything back. I don't think that she is going to agree and I've about lost all hope that we will be able to agree on something outside of court. I don't know what my options are but I feel that going to trial is going to be my only chance of telling my side of the story. Is this when an evaluator will get involved, a GAL, or something? It feels like this whole thing is going to end without me getting to say anything.

Any help/advice from anyone about what comes next? what to do? words of encouragement...Thanks!

[kells76]

Hey Priority1, glad we can be here for you.

One thought that sprang to mind while reading your post is that when we have legal conflict with a pwBPD, there are at least a couple of strands intertwined for us that are really important to untangle and deal with separately.

One strand is the legal process side, and the other strand is our emotional/relational side.

I'm wondering if I'm seeing some crossover here:

We're done with the court-ordered mediation. We have sent a proposal to my ex and haven't heard anything back. I don't think that she is going to agree and I've about lost all hope that we will be able to agree on something outside of court. I don't know what my options are but I feel that going to trial is going to be my only chance of telling my side of the story. Is this when an evaluator will get involved, a GAL, or something? It feels like this whole thing is going to end without me getting to say anything.

We get better outcomes when we use the legal process to meet legal needs, and a therapeutic/counseling process to work through the emotional side (anger, injustice, grief, etc).

Kind of like trying to snowboard on a ski -- you could try, and you might kind of get down the mountain, but you'll have better results if you snowboard on the board and ski on the skis.

If you don't have a good counselor yet, consider finding one, because it's important to have a specific place to go to process this huge load:

I never did anything to threaten or harm my ex. I spent 3 years of my life trying to convince the person that I loved that I wasn't a terrible person. That's something that I have to live with and I need to figure out, why I was willing to love someone who abused me. I have evidence (voice recordings, text messages, video, vet statements, AKA registration) all showing either that she's lied or a pattern of behavior of her not letting me leave the house for work, one night I had to jump off our 2nd story balcony ( the video).

Lawyers are good at the legal process, but aren't good as sounding boards for our emotional processing.

The legal process, too, likely won't help with your closure or with feeling like you were heard -- at least, it's probably safer to bet that it won't, or won't fully, than hope that the legal side will be where you get to "set the record straight" or "tell your story".

That's not to say "don't pursue the legal side". I think in your situation, you're being smart to do so. This is more to help you get the most "bang for the buck" from each venue. Let the lawyers do lawyer stuff and they will be really good at that. And let your counselor do the counseling. Crossover dilutes the impact and power of either one.

...

So -- sounds like your ex is stonewalling and foot-dragging (I'm familiar with that). Was there a deadline on the proposal you sent her? On the legal side, let's start there -- I bet we can find a path forward.

[Priority1]

Hey kells76, thanks for the response!

Going to therapy is what ultimately led to me leaving her. I began to see that no matter what I did, she was going to believe whatever she wanted to, have outbursts, be apologetic, and then think I was her Night in shining armor an hour later. Thanks to work dropping my current therapist though, I do need to find another... and I like the Snowboarding reference 

[GaGrl]

Don't be disappointed that the mediation might not result in an agreement. Most people on this board have found mediation with a pwBPD to be just another step in the process and not an end in itself.

The next legal step might be to request a GAL to represent your son's best interests. The GAL might then recommend a custody evaluation.

[Priority1]

kells76, sorry I'm new to this and didn't see the rest of your response. Great advice about keeping them separate. There was no deadline for the proposal...technically I guess it was a Stipulated Decree of Paternity, but I don't know what's next. The lawyers did have a discussion and her's said that they were about to file a motion, but we don't know what that was.

She has claimed abuse against her, my dog, and "future" abuse against my son. She's asking for full custody, only supervised visitations at a care facility, no holidays, child support, legal fees, etc...my "Stipulated Decree of Paternity" says shared legal custody, shared physical custody (in 1 year), covers all the other above mentioned and Dismiss' the PTO with prejudice.

[Priority1]

Thanks, GaGrl! I feel like my biggest disappointment/depressor comes from hoping that meditation/reasoning will work. I am starting to understand what you said about it being another step.

When do I make the request for a GAL, is it before/after trial? I brought it up briefly with my lawyer and he didn't have much to say about it...

[livednlearned]

Some pwBPD aren't high-conflict personalities (what Bill Eddy calls HCPs - these are people who have a target of blame, are persuasive blamers, recruits negative advocates, and have a personality disorder). HCPs tend to be the people who jam up the family law court system. Your wife is an HCP.  

Often, judges will look at a high-conflict divorce and think both parties cannot put the needs of the child first. They think two adults who cannot set aside their differences to focus on what's best for the kids must both be losers.

Our challenge, as non-BPD people, is to show we aren't high-conflict people. Our job is to tell a story (which can be told over time, not necessarily a day in court kind of thing). We tell those stories with documentation. We also have to show up in court thinking like the judge thinks. Judges don't want repeat customers, they want problem solvers. They don't want to solve your problems for you. Understanding that last sentence is probably the most important lesson I learned about family law court.

Since your ex cannot solve problems, you have to signal to a judge that you're a problem solver.

I'm not sure what's in your proposal, but ideally it will recommend something to demonstrate that you are motivated to be a great parent. For example, you want both parents to take parenting classes by day/date. You recommend both parents take classes in healthy ways to resolve conflict. You might even recommend that both parents get a forensic psychiatrist to administer MMPI. In other words, you're a guy saying, "Ok, she says this and that and that. Here's a solution to show I'm motivated to alleviate those concerns." It can take some effort to figure out what those items are, but over time, as your ex continues to shoot down even things that seem to help her, it becomes clear who the problem is.

Our cases tend to be marathons, not sprints.

Mediation is even shorter than a sprint.

Think of going to trial less like a day in court and more like meeting an important person (the judge) for the first time. Getting to know this person, what they care about. How your L gets along with that person. I mean, it's not quite like that but it's also not that far off.

Think about supervised visitation as a chance to demonstrate to a third-party professional what a great parent you are. How devoted you are to your child. You don't want this forever, and you aren't going to totally roll over, but look at every angle of every situation to see if there's a way to find some leverage in your favor. Maybe you agree to supervised visitation for 4 weeks. Your ex won't like that and may try to expand it to 12 weeks. You just got her to go from supervised visitation until your child is 65 to 4 weeks with someone who can vouch for you in court if needed.

One of the things is my case that was super helpful was a deposition. My L came in with two large 3-ring binders filled with copies of emails and text messages that my ex sent me. He helped me document my case against me because sometimes pwBPD are great that way. My L didn't need the binders but they made a compelling prop. The binders signaled to the other lawyer that I might be a credible witness, a sign that he should keep his client out of court if possible.

The deposition exposed my ex's disordered thinking and gave our lawyers a chance to see what n/BPDx might be like in court. It wasn't a good look.

After that experience (cost about $800 for the transcription service + lawyer fees) my ex's lawyer was much more motivated to put pressure on my ex to negotiate.

That's just one example of how to make the different tactics work in your favor. There are many many others.

Also, I'm not sure why your L doesn't think a GAL is a good idea, however, there is a ton of variation in GAL quality that can be very different county to county, state to state. My L was appalled by GALs in our county and the havoc they wreaked on kids' lives. All you needed to be a GAL where we lived was a pulse. I saw one in court testifying on someone else's case that I wouldn't let babysit my child under my supervision.

If your L is not motivated to help you get some traction in the way you expect, you'll probably want to work this board over as much as possible to figure out how to light a fire, or maybe it's just understanding how the system works. Some lawyers are good at paperwork, some are good at trial, some are good at taking on too many clients. It can be a bit tough to know what's going on -- it's easy to get emotionally overwhelmed and that stress can make it hard to see what your L is doing well or not.

My L ended up helping me get sole custody in a state notorious for not granting it, but I had to learn how she worked and trust her at times when it was hard. At the end of the day, you are the boss. Your lawyer works for you. Be specific about your goal and ask for the L to help you understand different strategies and tactics available to you to get a better outcome for your child.

Last, some of the documentation you mention might not add up to as much as you think. What matters is documenting a consistent pattern of behavior that demonstrates how important it is to be in your child's life given the qualities you have. This is to offset the PO issue. Then have documentation to demonstrate how both parents can participate in reasonable classes/evaluations/efforts that show an intention to focus on your child. 20 percent of documentation should go toward "She says these things" and 80 percent on "Here's how I plan to demonstrate my commitment to this child. Let's figure this out. We can both participate at separate times by day date if that makes her feel more comfortable."

What do you think?

[GaGrl]

As to the GAL and trial...you would file a motion to have a GAL appointed to represent your son's best interests and then have the GAL do his/her due diligence in order to make recommendations to the court PRIOR to trial.

Once you've gone to trial, what the judge rules is what you will be living with for quite a while. You don't want to rush to trial.

[Joaquin]

Hey priority1,
Just wanted to say what you describe reflects a lot of my experience (and that of many others here). Spending years desperately, futilely trying to make your BPD partner see past their irrationality horrible opinion of you and let go of their high criticisms, all the while deprioritizing yourself. Losing yourself in the process. It did a lot of damage to me and many others here. You’re not alone and I’m happy you got to a place where you’ve reclaimed yourself and your life. The legal process is just a process, which means it’s temporary. It may be messy, but at least you have yourself again.

Also, I second what livednlearned said about family court. Family courts can vary even within the same state, but one almost universal constant is that judges do not want to be there and they don’t want you there. They want your case off their docket. Their top priority is to conclude the case. If they see you as obstructing that, they’ll dislike you. If you can convince them you’re reasonable and a problem solver, they will be grateful.

[ForeverDad]

So, if you didn't propose. then you're not married?  Then this is not a divorce case but a custody and parenting case?

When did she move to another state?  I ask because it takes 6 months for her residing in another state to have basis to file for custody/parenting orders there.  So where is the case, in your state or hers?  This is an important question.  If it's in her new state and she has resided there less than 6 months, then unless you've signed away your rights to have custody issues in the pre-existing state - yours - you have little time to have the case assigned to your county of residence.  Did your lawyer explain this to you?

Moving on...

I appeared to fight it, without representation, the judge looked me in the eyes and told me it would have nothing to do with me seeing my son

In one sense the judge was correct, her restraining petition was likely for her benefit, and was separate from parenting.  But by not fighting it then, it also made your struggle to be an involved father more difficult, since a TRO automatically is a ding against you.

She has claimed abuse against her, my dog, and "future" abuse against my son. She's asking for full custody, only supervised visitations at a care facility, no holidays, child support, legal fees, etc...my "Stipulated Decree of Paternity" says shared legal custody, shared physical custody (in 1 year), covers all the other above mentioned and Dismiss' the PTO with prejudice.

If you have even the least doubt of your paternity, that should be settled now.  It's not to make her look bad - you're apparently not married - but simply to clarify and document it is your child.

What would be the "shared" details of custody and parenting time?  Very likely her concept of shared is her having nearly everything.  There is No Excuse to delay parenting for a year.  Bonding with your child is important.  (If her excuse is that she is nursing the baby, there are many breast pump products that she can use to pump her breast milk and freeze it to pass along at child exchanges.  Millions of working or separated mothers do this, it is totally reasonable to request it.)

Her supervised demand is a huge red flag.  The worst that should happen is that it may occur for a short time while the local children's agency determines you're no risk to the baby.  (In my case, my ex demanded that but within two weeks the CPS investigator stood up and told the court they had "no concerns" about me.)  Supervised demands to be months or a year or longer are totally unreasonable if there is no basis.  Period.

If she does get your parenting delayed for a year then she will surely claim that you need to be introduced very, very slowly to your child for another year or more.  Totally unreasonable but court might buy into a gradual introduction schedule to your child if you allow unnecessary absence now.  (Yet more delay tactics.  She will try to delay every little thing as long as it is to her benefit.  Sorry.)

Are you sure you've got the right lawyer for you?  You need more than one capable to fill out forms and hold hands.  As already mentioned, William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a must read.  He helps us to avoid common traps, missteps and mistakes in the legal arena.  It's inexpensive.  Even if you're not married, everything else explained and advised will apply to your custody and parenting efforts.

I worry that you may have given in too much in your mediation offer.  As has been stated here, most of us never had successful mediations.  I sure didn't.  It's okay if sincere mediation attempts on your part fail.  It's not you, it's the unreasonable parent.

One thing you can do consistently at court and elsewhere is to be the person advocating practical solutions.  Eventually, perhaps not now, the professionals involved with court will notice you're not the one obstructing reasonable progress.

Court won't try to fix her.  They'll likely not even try to figure out why she's obstructive.  They will probably deal with her as she is.  You would be wise to do the same.  Courts focus on documentation.  But the hearings are so short that you will have to present your documents in priority order.  What's most important?  How about getting through the BS she's throwing at the court and getting past any safety concerns the court may have about you.  (I always say to always to picture yourself with the judge looking over your shoulder.)  Don't let her trigger you to shout or even the least bit threatening.  Be calm, cool, etc 100% of the time.

Remember, she has no proof of you being abusive.  Sure, there will be "he always..." and "she always..." thrown back and forth but court can't act upon such vague and undocumented claims, it will be "hearsay" and (mostly) ignored.

Remember also that any overly nice/fair concessions you Gift her will not make a person disordered with BPD behave better.  You'll have to be firm for your rights as father or she'll trample you underfoot.  Sad, but realistic.

[Priority1]

livednlearned,

I just finished reading "Splitting" and I agree with you that she is a HCP. Throughout our relationship, she would tell me how abusive her ex was to her, now I question the whole thing because she's doing the same to me now.

I think you're right about it having to be a story told over time and has helped me to see it in another way. I have been documenting everything and have all of our text messages, phone logs, etc. My plan is to present everything (to someone...?) with facts and to show them her patterns of behavior through documentation.

Who do I make the requests to for the classes and the MMPI?

What you said, has made me feel better about the supervised visitations as well. Made me see them as the opportunity as you say, to use it to my advantage. Thank you. I think they are pretty firm on the supervised visitations, my proposal doesn't have any supervised visitations currently but I am willing to do some.

One of the biggest things I got out of "Splitting" was the information about a deposition, I believe that will work in my favor. I am not sure if I will be able to use it for the custody case, but during her testimony at the PTO hearing, she made more accusations, most of which I have since gathered texts/documents proving she lied. Any idea if that would be allowed?

From what I understood is that my L wants to try and settle things outside of a GAL right now, he thinks that we have a few things to try first and I do feel comfortable with our proposal. I will have to have another discussion about it with him, I'm sure.

Your response helped a lot thanks!

[livednlearned]

Who do I make the requests to for the classes and the MMPI?

I would save that for when you file a motion. I'm assuming mediation won't work, although there are ways it can work a bit. In my case, we were able to resolve 90 percent of everything in mediation but we could not agree on that final 10 percent, which was joint legal custody. I knew it wouldn't work. So the order said, "LnL and n/BPDx agree to x, y, and z but item a is not resolved and must be heard in front of a judge." Then it sat there until enough happened to show it was in the best interests of our child for me to have sole legal custody.

The judge is technically the "supreme witness" in a case. Which just means that a clock kind of starts once you file. Now the judge is witnessing the problems that impact your child. It's always, always, always, always about the child. If you have a beef about the other parent, no one cares. Unless it impacts your child.

Dockets for family law court are overflowing and judges don't want dumb cases because there are many horrible ones that need immediate attention and can't be heard because of people like our exes. Mediation is a way to try and keep you out of court but HCP traits make that all but impossible. Give it a go but don't worry if it's unsuccessful.

What you said, has made me feel better about the supervised visitations as well. Made me see them as the opportunity as you say, to use it to my advantage. Thank you. I think they are pretty firm on the supervised visitations, my proposal doesn't have any supervised visitations currently but I am willing to do some.

Whenever a third-party professional is involved, do as much research as you can. For example, find out if there are reputable agencies, how they train people, whether you have any say in which supervisor you get, etc. Can they be subpoenaed, will they testify, are there cameras in the facility. I have a research background so this might sound obsessive but there are a lot of nutty people involved in child custody stuff and I didn't want them having an out-sized opinion on what was best for my child unless they were reputable.

If there is room for you to have a say, pick three of the supervisors/facilities you feel comfortable with and let your ex pick which one she thinks is ok. Don't let her pick a family member if you can avoid it for what should be obvious reasons    And if you ever offer a choice, always have a consequence for non-compliance. Meaning, if you pick three supervisors and she gets to decide which one to go with, give her a deadline to do so.

If she hasn't picked someone by day/date, then you get to choose. pwBPD are masters at stonewalling, so anytime you can close a loophole, do so! It can save you so much misery, time, and money. Lawyers will not automatically think this way. I used get a draft of whatever the motion was, then go through and look for places where I could add a sentence that closed loopholes. My L found it amusing but she also drove a Mercedes SUV and went on cruises all over the world. I'm pretty sure I put her daughter through 4 years of private school. She grew to respect me and toward the end did pro bono work to help me get my case over the finish line.

One of the biggest things I got out of "Splitting" was the information about a deposition, I believe that will work in my favor. I am not sure if I will be able to use it for the custody case, but during her testimony at the PTO hearing, she made more accusations, most of which I have since gathered texts/documents proving she lied. Any idea if that would be allowed?

It isn't so much about what is or isn't allowed. It's more about the story your L thinks will work. My L happened to be a better lawyer in trial and not so great with paperwork. Your L will have a relationship with the judge, most likely. Although it works different depending on where you live. I had the same judge for 4 years and he was a "Southern gentlemen." My ex liked to send texts and emails called me a whore, b!tch, c@nt, and other nice things. I had about 80 of these emails, some of them just had one swear word on them. Those became part of the story my L told, but only after a year or so when most people have cooled their jets. Her point was, "This guy cannot pull himself together. My client is impeccable. This is not a duo that can make joint legal decisions for the minor child." Then she had other things to round out the story. "Here he is stonewalling the child psychiatrist. Here he is stonewalling the psychological evaluation for the school. Here he is intimidating the school principal if they allow the minor child to attend a class trip."

The lawyers in our case agreed to a deposition because it was cheaper than a custody evaluation, if I had to guess. I think my lawyer and ex's lawyer were collegial, and mine kept saying, "Dude, you're wrong about your client. Here's what's going on here." And ex's lawyer wasn't sure. So the deposition was a way for them to get to the bottom of things. Our deposition was extra damning for my ex because he's a former trial attorney and he said tried to laugh off some pretty disturbing behavior. What happened, in effect, is that the L started to reign n/BPDx in, saying things like, "Look, I think you need to accept this proposal because the alternative is that this other thing is going to happen."

I hope that makes sense. Meaning, it moved a pebble in my direction. It wasn't a smoking gun. It changed the calculus of how the other lawyer represented his client, containing his worst impulses rather than storming the gates. We never used the deposition in court because it was already useful and other bad behavior started to show up that was more useful to focus on.

It's unfortunate that she has a bit of a leg up with the PTO but sometimes that's just two people fighting and judges know that. Me, I would focus on my character in other ways and change the narrative. Volunteer. Teach. Take a parenting class. Or a class on healthy child development. I'd ask your lawyer what he/she thinks.

pwBPD have a hard time focusing on what's best for the kid. It's really important to catch when this is happening -- yes, you might have to defend yourself and have documentation. (There are people on these boards who kept every receipt in a binder to show timestamps of where they were in case they were accused of violating the RO.) Don't let her take your focus off being a great parent. She probably prefers chaos to peace because peace means letting the bad stuff in. When you notice the chaos is rising, take a step back and think about what is best for your child and take that path.

From what I understood is that my L wants to try and settle things outside of a GAL right now, he thinks that we have a few things to try first and I do feel comfortable with our proposal. I will have to have another discussion about it with him, I'm sure.

Sounds reasonable! You're at the beginning of this. If your L doesn't know the other L, he'll be starting from scratch and has to see if they can get something reasonable accomplished.

[ForeverDad]

What you said, has made me feel better about the supervised visitations as well. Made me see them as the opportunity as you say, to use it to my advantage. Thank you. I think they are pretty firm on the supervised visitations, my proposal doesn't have any supervised visitations currently but I am willing to do some.

Of course they're firm on the supervised visits.  Gifting that to ex puts virtually everything in ex's favor.  And that's the problem. If the other side gets stubborn about it, then let the court decide.  Truism: If she agrees to a mediation settlement, then you probably Gifted Away too much parenting rights.  It's okay to agree to some things but let the court rule on the matters that unfairly would make you appear worse than you are.

If court does order supervision - if the child is believed to be endangered - then that's on the court, it's not you.

Another problem is that you can't be sure how long supervised will go on.  What if at the end of the specified time, generally only a few hours at most per visit, and a report from the supervisors you did okay, then ex complains child came back every time upset, filthy diaper, etc?  Ex would probably continue casting you as Mr Evil Personified.

I previously wrote that the only reason for supervised is (1) initially the agencies need time to assess you or (2) there is a serious problem with you or your parenting.  Which do you want it to appear as?

Just because she doesn't like you any more is NOT basis for supervised.

Sorry if I appear overly concerned.  My then-separated spouse tried to end my parenting, claiming to be protecting our preschooler.  I suffered through only two weeks at first while CPS checked me out.  Then when I was in between temp orders (one for the initial separation and the other for the divorce) I didn't see him for over 3 months.  Afterward court didn't bat an eye. No make up time for me nor consequences for my then-stbEx.  Even after more than 15 years, it is still concerning to me.

[livednlearned]

That's a good point FD made.

I wasn't thinking about how you're mediating the supervised visitation piece.

There's not really a reason for supervised visitation is there?

It's ok to say no to stuff that's garbage in mediation. If it's a deal breaker for you, don't agree and prepare for things to move along the conveyor belt.

But if the court ordered supervised visitation, that's different

[Priority1]

ForeverDad and livedandlearned

I haven't given her supervised visits that's not what was in the proposal. The proposal has 4 phases of visitation, until I am able to move closer in 1 year, due to contractual requirements at my job. Phase 1 - 3hr visits, once per month for 2 days. through Phase 4 - Me being able to bring him to my house a weekend. When I move back, visitation will be the state's assumed physical custody (50-50).

I know she's going to be firm on it and so will I. There's absolutely no reason that I need supervised visitations and it does make sense to let the courts decide like FD said. (There's so much back and forth in my head, I never know if I'm doing the right thing).

Thank you both for your responses, I've definitely got some different things to think about and consider. Super grateful that there is a place like this. She might respond today, I'm not going to sit around and wait though, I'm going to go up the mountain and fish for a couple of days. Hope y'all have a good weekend.

I'll keep posting!

[ForeverDad]

One of the values of peer support (not ever excluding the value of your counselor and other trusted people in your life) is that you permit others to see your dilemmas "from outside the box".

We've been there, done that.  Since we aren't emotionally involved in your situation, we're able to avoid looking from the inside to outside, instead looking from the outside to the inside of your situation.  That allows a less subjective and more objective perspective on everything.

You do have your natural instincts to be a man and to be a father but you're facing pressure from a once-loved now obstructive woman.  It's nice to have others validate what really is normal and healthy versus abnormal and unhealthy.

A way for you to do that yourself now is to imagine what you want your life to be 5 years from now, 10 years from now, etc.  Then just adjust your current decisions and goals to reflect that perspective.  Hopefully you should have fewer regrets later.

[Priority1]

It really help to have people who can give me advice and help me look at things in different ways! Thanks again!

I got to my camping spot and she responded to my proposal by filing a motion with the court. The hearing won’t probably be until mid august.

I’ll start a new post