How to Help Best Friend With BPD Wife

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello,

I am new to the board and this is my first post.  My apologies if this isn’t in the right section but none of the categories quite fit.

My best friend’s wife was recently diagnosed with BPD and I am here trying to figure out the best way to help/support him.

The relationship has been going on over 40 years, since they were both 15.  The relationship is very abusive and controlling.  He is utterly obedient to her and lives in fear of upsetting her in anyway.  I really didn’t understand the depth of all of this until last August, at which point I started trying to help him understand that a lot of things he thought were “normal” were actually abuse.

Coincidentlally, about a month after I found out about the abuse, she decided that he was cheating on her (I don’t believe that he was) and kicked him out of the house. None of the control or abuse ended.  He’s essentially a prisoner in his apartment or office when he isn’t with her.  She tracks his phone and texts/FaceTimes constantly, berates and insults him a lot in their conversations.  Controls everything they do together.  Whenever she is angry he grovels and apologizes for as long as it takes for her to stop being angry. None of this is really new other than the fact that she used to largely leave him alone at work so he did have one place he got a break.

They’ve had a marriage counselor since last December that is very good.  In January he told my friend in a 1x1 session that his wife had several “cognitive distortions” that prevented her from having happy relationships and also said that they couldn’t really help her with those issues because she would fire any counselor who tried to diagnose her with those things.  

This was a huge win in helping him start to understand and process how bad things were.  It also made him brave enough to stop lying to the counselor about how bad her behavior was, at least when they were alone.  

Fast forward to the end of April and there was a really crazy incident involving 11 hours of raging and suicide threats including brandishing the knife she planned on using on herself.  After this, the counselor told my friend that his wife had BPD and suggested he read the Walking On Eggshells book.  

He read the book and really recognizes himself and his wife in the pages.  I also read the book so I could discuss and support.  We both loved the fact that it seems to lay out a clear path out of this nightmare.  

The problem is he’s still just so very stuck.  He knows he needs to do the “Safety First” boundary but he’s terrified to do it.  He still spends all his time trying desperately to jump through her hoops and do whatever it takes not to anger her.  

He’s tried smaller, less terrifying boundaries like insisting on going back to his apartment at a reasonable time each night to sleep. Without “Safety First” though she just verbally abuses him for days over every boundary and eventually he caves.

He’s totally isolated other than the counselor and myself.  This is part of the reason I am so motivated to help him.  

Any advice on what I should say or do to help him get started breaking out of this?  Does he just need more time?

[Leslie1]

Hello,

I am new to the board and this is my first post.  My apologies if this isn’t in the right section but none of the categories quite fit.

My best friend’s wife was recently diagnosed with BPD and I am here trying to figure out the best way to help/support him.

The relationship has been going on over 40 years, since they were both 15.  The relationship is very abusive and controlling.  He is utterly obedient to her and lives in fear of upsetting her in anyway.  I really didn’t understand the depth of all of this until last August, at which point I started trying to help him understand that a lot of things he thought were “normal” were actually abuse.

Coincidentlally, about a month after I found out about the abuse, she decided that he was cheating on her (I don’t believe that he was) and kicked him out of the house. None of the control or abuse ended.  He’s essentially a prisoner in his apartment or office when he isn’t with her.  She tracks his phone and texts/FaceTimes constantly, berates and insults him a lot in their conversations.  Controls everything they do together.  Whenever she is angry he grovels and apologizes for as long as it takes for her to stop being angry. None of this is really new other than the fact that she used to largely leave him alone at work so he did have one place he got a break.

They’ve had a marriage counselor since last December that is very good.  In January he told my friend in a 1x1 session that his wife had several “cognitive distortions” that prevented her from having happy relationships and also said that they couldn’t really help her with those issues because she would fire any counselor who tried to diagnose her with those things.  

This was a huge win in helping him start to understand and process how bad things were.  It also made him brave enough to stop lying to the counselor about how bad her behavior was, at least when they were alone.  

Fast forward to the end of April and there was a really crazy incident involving 11 hours of raging and suicide threats including brandishing the knife she planned on using on herself.  After this, the counselor told my friend that his wife had BPD and suggested he read the Walking On Eggshells book.  

He read the book and really recognizes himself and his wife in the pages.  I also read the book so I could discuss and support.  We both loved the fact that it seems to lay out a clear path out of this nightmare.  

The problem is he’s still just so very stuck.  He knows he needs to do the “Safety First” boundary but he’s terrified to do it.  He still spends all his time trying desperately to jump through her hoops and do whatever it takes not to anger her.  

He’s tried smaller, less terrifying boundaries like insisting on going back to his apartment at a reasonable time each night to sleep. Without “Safety First” though she just verbally abuses him for days over every boundary and eventually he caves.

He’s totally isolated other than the counselor and myself.  This is part of the reason I am so motivated to help him.  

Any advice on what I should say or do to help him get started breaking out of this?  Does he just need more time?

[Turkish]

What's the Safety First boundary as you understand. We have this here as a resource: https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety-first-dv-1.pdf

How aware is she of your involvement or even level of friendship?

[Leslie1]

It’s from Chapter 9 of The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder. It is the first thing the book suggests you change about your interactions with your partner.   That is why we are thinking this is the first outward step he needs to take?

Excerpt below:

According to Christopher Bojrab, MD, people with BPD may be able to calm themselves down when the emotional level ranges from one to five. At six and above, without treatment, they may not be able to calm themselves down.  If your family member is at a six or higher, visualize the emotional centers of his brain going ka-ching! ka-ching! ka-ching! like a slot machine spewing forth tokens. Your family member’s thoughts and feelings are warped, and what he’s saying makes about as much sense as throwing away your hard-earned money in games you know are designed to put your cash into the casino’s pocket.

Don’t listen to your family member berate you and call you names. Right now, he can’t see your point of view or think through the effects of his interactions with others. It’s not that he won’t; it’s that he can’t. Verbal abuse harms you: ongoing, repeated verbal assaults can be every bit as emotionally devastating as physical battering—especially when it is meted out by an intimate partner or by someone in a position of authority. Anxiety, low self-esteem, and depression are all tied to verbal abuse.

Instead, bring the interaction to a temporary close. Say, “I will not discuss this any more if you continue to yell. I am willing to be supportive and listen if you can tell me what it is you want and need.” If the rage continues, leave immediately (or ask your family member to leave).


As for his wife… She has no idea that she has BPD (yet) or that he speaks about the abuse to me or anyone else.    

[Leslie1]

I think my initial post might have been overcomplicated.  I am just going to list out some very specific (and short  questions.

1. For those of you who have moved from enmeshment/codependency/being controlled to being capable of setting boundaries and walking away from verbally abusive behavior… how did you do that?  What changed?

2.  What did you most need from your friends and support system during that journey?

3.  Is there a glossary somewhere of the various versions of BPD that are used on this site?  Often there are letters before or after BPD and I am not always sure what they stand for. 

[Notwendy]

Beware of the Karpman triangle.

As much as you care about your friend, this could potentially backfire.

This is from the experience of trying to help my father in his relationship with my BPD mother. From my own experience, trying to "rescue" my father from my BPD mother resulted in her taking "victim" perspective, putting me in "persecutor" position and my father stepped in to "rescue" her against me.

These romantic bonds are complicated, and also strong. Be careful.

[kells76]

Hi Leslie1, I want to join with Notwendy and Turkish in welcoming you to the group.

It's clear you care about your friend's well-being a lot, and you'd like to be effective in your support for him.

I've been in your position before, too -- a long-time friend of mine and my H's was dating a woman diagnosed with BPD. While the isolation that a pwBPD often imposes on a partner showed up differently in his case than in your friend's case (in my friend's case, he stopped reaching out to me/other friends, and my attempts to connect went unanswered, whereas in your case, it sounds like you are still able to text/email/other?), we would see each other maybe once a year (it'd been every few weeks/months before). During one of those times, I tried to tell him that there was support out there, that he wasn't alone, and that there were groups he could join to help. As far as I know, he didn't do that -- all his emotional energy was directed towards making sure that just in case this time her suicide threat was real, he could drop everything and race to find her (she didn't tell him where she was, just that she'd kill herself if he didn't give her money).

He had to hit rock bottom on his own, despite us sharing information with him, but we were there on the other side to help him pick up the pieces.

Like Notwendy mentions, these are tricky relationships to navigate, and having healthy boundaries on our own side -- being patient with our friends' process, staying nonjudgmental and stable, being a listening ear without an agenda, neither overfunctioning for our friends nor ditching them for "doing it wrong" -- will have long term benefits.

My thought is that if she gets a sense that you are "too far in" to helping your friend, she may move to blacklist/badmouth you to him and isolate him from you even more. She does seem capable of exerting that kind of emotional control. So long-term, a good view could be -- how can I find that sweet spot of not being overinvolved (and potentially cut off), without ditching him?

Finding ways to coach instead of rescue will be key. Check out our section on the Karpman drama triangle for starters, and let us know your thoughts on it, especially the post comparing the "drama triangle" to the "winner's triangle" (coaching/centering).

You have a good plan in coming here to learn more about not only the "what" of BPD, but the "how" of effective support. Just like so many things related to BPD, effective support can sometimes be non-intuitive. This is a great place to talk through game plans and learn from others' experiences. We'll be here for you;

kells76

P.S. In answer to your question #3, yes, there is a thread on What do all these abbreviations and terms mean?! Hope that helps.

[livednlearned]

1. For those of you who have moved from enmeshment/codependency/being controlled to being capable of setting boundaries and walking away from verbally abusive behavior… how did you do that?  What changed?

Most of us who are codependent find it easier to care about others more than ourselves. Caring about someone at our own expense is our signature move. This includes caring about people who abuse us. It takes our attention away from gut wrenching insecurities and in many cases trauma. Caring about ourselves can feel dangerous depending on the family of origin context we grew up in. If your friend doesn't have a child to protect, and doesn't feel he's worth protecting, he may become stuck and you should prepare yourself for that. Like NotWendy mentioned, you cannot rescue someone who may not understand the assignment. It will depend on whether he has a scrap of self respect.

Also, if you demonstrate too much care for him, especially if he believes he's a piece of garbage, he might wonder what's wrong with you and begin to push you away.

2.  What did you most need from your friends and support system during that journey?

No judgment. No pushing. A lot of validation. A friend said to me, "Just so you know, if you decide to stay with your husband, I have no judgment and I'll love you no matter what." What a gift. I felt shame for staying in what I knew was an abusive relationship. Shame weighs a thousand pounds and can become crippling. He knows it isn't safe and he has to leave but he doesn't, so this is about more than straight up knowledge. It's an emotional handicap and it's probably hard for him to fathom given his own trauma.

Try to not get on the emotional roller coaster with him if you can. Emotions are contagious and since he's surrendered so much in his relationship, try to meet him where he is but then help him level up to your emotions. Be calm around him, help him discharge stress and anxiety. Giving his nervous system a short break from the stress he feels may help build strength for the bigger effort to protect himself.  

He's probably going to need professional help to deal with her, especially her suicidality.

Friends made all the difference in my journey. I can't imagine doing it without them. It's wonderful that your friend has you. At the same time, take care of you! He's the other side of a sick relationship, and that makes him unwell. Make sure he moves towards you versus the opposite. You don't want to give up what's important and healthy in your life to save him, you want him to see how steadying it is to be you and give hope that there's an island like that inside him too.

[ForeverDad]

Does he want his life to change, to improve?  You could invite him here if or when he really wants to better himself and his situation.

In my own experience, I was unable to share all my distress except with a few trusted friends and relatives.  I kept hoping the most recent rant/rage was the last.  But all too soon another trigger appeared and I was again back on that endless roller coaster.  For me it was me being forced to erect some self preservation boundaries as our conflict worsened.  Predictably, she resisted any common sense practical Boundaries and rather quickly it became a choice of seeking help (sought counseling and finally called 911).  The marriage imploded but I saved myself and my parenting.

Remember, recovery is a process, not an event.  But he does have to start somewhere.

Be careful, this is a peer support site for those in or recovering from relationships with people with Borderline Personality Disorder (pwBPD).  Under no circumstances should you or he share this site with his disordered spouse.  No good would come of that.

[Leslie1]

Thank you for the warm welcome and all the helpful comments. I am a little overwhelmed in a good way.  This post will probably be all over the place.

My thought is that if she gets a sense that you are "too far in" to helping your friend, she may move to blacklist/badmouth you to him and isolate him from you even more. She does seem capable of exerting that kind of emotional control. So long-term, a good view could be -- how can I find that sweet spot of not being overinvolved (and potentially cut off), without ditching him?

Finding ways to coach instead of rescue will be key. Check out our section on the Karpman drama triangle for starters, and let us know your thoughts on it, especially the post comparing the "drama triangle" to the "winner's triangle" (coaching/centering).

Thank you everyone  for the warnings/information on the Karpman Triangle.  

First, there is no risk of them getting into this triangle with me or any other third party at this point.   For decades he hid everything about the abuse and her issues from everyone.  He knew it would go very badly if she ever heard that he had said a single negative thing about her to anyone.  The two friends of his who know would never even hint that they do because it would not be safe for him.  Even his counselor is still hiding that at this point.
.
Secondly, thank you for the link kels76!  It was very helpful.  I can see him very much in section about Rescuers.

To clarify… he is in counseling for this and is very committed to healthy.  He’s just trying to figure out why this is all going so slow and why wanting to be healthy isn’t translating into being healthy.  

 I shared the link with him and the statement about having to face your outdated fantasies, feelings and beliefs  and let them go is where he feels he is stuck.  Specifically, the following beliefs and feelings…

1. The belief that it is his job and purpose to caretake and rescue her from her emotions and bad behavior.  
2. The belief that he is less worthy of a good life than she is.

They are both pretty stubborn beliefs for him. Does anyone have any advice on how to let these go or anything… any questions, conversations etc I can do to best support and help?

 Specifically on feeling worthy…
LivednLearned was spot on in her assessment that he would need some self respect to get better… I do believe he has a scrap but clearly needs more. His counselor has him working on his inner voice by rewriting his shame statements with words he would tell his adult child or a friend if they said those things about themselves to him.  I am trying to do my part with being very purposeful with a lot of genuine and heartfelt compliments.  

Is there anything else that worked for any of you?


The Caring section of the Winning Triangle says…

Be caring, but don't overstep. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the rescuer  and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer  has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

This is an excellent goal for him in his relationship but honestly a very good goal for me as well.  As ForeverDad pointed out… being here at all when he isn’t is a sign of over functioning and doing the thinking.  It also just reflects that I am in a bit of researcher role for him now as still spends an insane amount of time and energy just reacting to her.  

He has devoured the books though… I need to find out why that hasn’t extended to forums and try to get him on here.  
  
LivedNLearned I also really appreciated your advice on how to help him without losing myself and to be careful about bringing him to me rather than me going to him.

[Leslie1]

Does he want his life to change, to improve?  You could invite him here if or when he really wants to better himself and his situation.

In my own experience, I was unable to share all my distress except with a few trusted friends and relatives.  I kept hoping the most recent rant/rage was the last.  But all too soon another trigger appeared and I was again back on that endless roller coaster.  For me it was me being forced to erect some self preservation boundaries as our conflict worsened.  Predictably, she resisted any common sense practical Boundaries and rather quickly it became a choice of seeking help (sought counseling and finally called 911).  The marriage imploded but I saved myself and my parenting.

Remember, recovery is a process, not an event.  But he does have to start somewhere.

Be careful, this is a peer support site for those in or recovering from relationships with people with Borderline Personality Disorder (pwBPD).  Under no circumstances should you or he share this site with his disordered spouse.  No good would come of that.

ForeverDad, thank you so much for sharing your experiences!  It gives me hope to hear how you got out. 

I will certainly not share this with her, nor would he, as any hint of any of this would be very unsafe for him at this point.

That being said, their marriage counselor is planning to tell her at some point when my friend is farther along in his recovery process.  I am starting to get the impression on this forum that most BPDs are not ever told.  Is that true?

[livednlearned]

That being said, their marriage counselor is planning to tell her at some point when my friend is farther along in his recovery process.  I am starting to get the impression on this forum that most BPDs are not ever told.  Is that true?

I think it's all over the place. People who have partners with diagnoses might be getting more help in real life. Some people have partners here with diagnoses who came into the relationship with it. It seems most common for a therapist or marriage counselor to suggest it to the non-BPD partner.

There is a memoir written about a woman with BPD (Buddha & the Borderline) where she discovers later in her 20s that she was diagnosed in her teens with BPD but no one disclosed that to her. There's a lot of ignorance about treatment for BPD, and a lot of stigma. There would probably be less stigma if there were more skilled therapists for both diagnosing it (as in, the correct PD) and for treating it.

Honestly, the best way for her to receive something even close to a diagnosis is to have her hospitalized when she's suicidal. Most of the research about BPD tends to be about suicidality given how serious it is. A lot of the data about remission and whatnot is actually about recovering from suicidal ideation and attempts and threats and self-harm. Psychiatrists who see people in crisis are probably more likely to look for BPD given how high SI is for them.

This might not make sense for your friend if he's still in rescue mode, but when I realized that my presence was so triggering to my ex it made it easier to walk away. I don't think it was 100 percent me causing his anguish of course, and I don't even think it was 25 percent. I think I became the screen on which he could most quickly project his repeating trauma. It's odd to say, but I was able to console myself with the thought that I was helping him by removing the trigger, and what I came to represent to him.

I do think it's a different conversation when your BPD partner is dangerous (mine was). Your codependent brain has to figure out a way to make it through the fog maze (fear, obligation, guilt) and your victim brain has to realize you're in real danger and figure out how to get out safely. Both seem to need attention when your partner is a threat.

How did the knife/suicidal night end? It sounds like neither of them reached out for help.

[Leslie1]

Honestly, the best way for her to receive something even close to a diagnosis is to have her hospitalized when she's suicidal. Most of the research about BPD tends to be about suicidality given how serious it is. A lot of the data about remission and whatnot is actually about recovering from suicidal ideation and attempts and threats and self-harm. Psychiatrists who see people in crisis are probably more likely to look for BPD given how high SI is for them.

This is very interesting.  Thank you! I did not realize that about the data. 

We did quickly realize that google is little to no help with this one. So much of the data out there is about conventional BPDs and isn’t apples to apples with unconventional BPDs like his wife.

This might not make sense for your friend if he's still in rescue mode, but when I realized that my presence was so triggering to my ex it made it easier to walk away. I don't think it was 100 percent me causing his anguish of course, and I don't even think it was 25 percent. I think I became the screen on which he could most quickly project his repeating trauma. It's odd to say, but I was able to console myself with the thought that I was helping him by removing the trigger, and what I came to represent to him.

I’m definitely going to mention this to him.  It echos another quote I saw on these boards that said their ex had so much less material with them gone.  I have often said to my friend that if she were single she would only have relationships with people who have good boundaries with her and would probably be much healthier for it. 

How did the knife/suicidal night end? It sounds like neither of them reached out for help.

Not that night no.  It was so awful and traumatizing though that he did end up with a little bit of leverage over her for the next couple of days, which I have never seen before.  That led him to be brave enough to tell their marriage counselor and led to the diagnosis. 

The counselor spent some time just with her during that session.  He told my friend in my friend’s next alone session that he believed she has BPD.  The counselor also seems to believe that her suicide threats are more about control and manipulation than a genuine desire to hurt herself.

[ForeverDad]

The counselor also seems to believe that her suicide threats are more about control and manipulation than a genuine desire to hurt herself.

Although there have been some members who reported their person with BPD (pwBPD) did actually commit suicide, it appears most make their threats but don't really follow through.  Yes, their "suicide threats are more about control and manipulation than a genuine desire to hurt self".

However, the professionals advise us that we in the general population are not trained nor expected to discern the difference between real distress versus control and manipulation.  They advise seeking trained help, whether it is the therapist or hospitalization.

Another however is that if you do call for help, such as for emergency response, the person "recovers" quickly and tells the responders that she is okay and denies ever making such comments.  Without proof otherwise the responders may just make sure everyone seems okay and then depart.  The only way to counter such (predictable) Denials is with facts, to either have witnesses or have a recording documenting the incident.  That's hard to do since such threats are usually in private and often difficult to start a recording.

I did manage to record myself (oops, her too) when for the first time I called and the police responded.  She of course was angry with me, denied doing anything wrong and said I was the one misbehaving.  Thankfully, I had a recording to prove what really happened.  It turned out that ended our marriage, which in turn was a healthy outcome for me and my parenting.

Some have commented that after a couple times caught lying or getting billed that they stop or reduce such threats.  On the other hand, it could also heighten the already high conflict environment and end the relationship sooner.

[Leslie1]

Some have commented that after a couple times caught lying or getting billed that they stop or reduce such threats.  On the other hand, it could also heighten the already high conflict environment and end the relationship sooner.

Thank you ForeverDad.  Also may I please just comment on how much I appreciate how you reference your parenting in your comments about getting healthy.  I love your focus on being a Dad.

Honestly I don’t know that ending the relationship sooner is such a bad thing… so much I have read about BPD in the books and on this forum… just makes me realize how BPD in and of itself is challenging enough… but the level of control in his relationship is off the charts. 

Did your self esteem take a hit in your relationship?  If so, how do you think you were able to overcome that enough to get out?  It seems like such a Catch-22…the relationship kills your self esteem and getting out requires self esteem.

[livednlearned]

the relationship kills your self esteem and getting out requires self esteem.

You saw a glimmer of strength when your friend sort of tipped the balance in the relationship and eventually reported it to the counselor.

That's the good part. He did it once. He survived. There's a chance he can repeat this.

He has a counselor. He must care about something in him to engage in therapy. It might be small but it's there.

It's so hard to describe the inner thinking of people who end up and stay in abusive relationships. I struggle to explain it to myself. Part of the challenge for me was that the coping mechanism I created sort of prevented me from seeing myself as a victim even though I most certainly was. People with BPD create false selves as a way to adapt to painful traumas, but this isn't something only they do. We create entire worlds with our thoughts and believe them.

His thoughts are as real to him as hers are to her.

Does he ask you for help? Does he seem to feel shame when he discusses his situation with you?

[Turkish]

It's so hard to describe the inner thinking of people who end up and stay in abusive relationships. I struggle to explain it to myself. Part of the challenge for me was that the coping mechanism I created sort of prevented me from seeing myself as a victim even though I most certainly was. People with BPD create false selves as a way to adapt to painful traumas, but this isn't something only they do. We create entire worlds with our thoughts and believe them.

His thoughts are as real to him as hers are to her.

To this day, I don't know why. Oh yes, I do given a mother with BPD, Depression, Anxiety and PTSD: you don't know what you don't know. Familiar coping mechanisms are just that. I had an out before we had a kid, then another. I didn't take it because I was afraid of failure and I thought I could fix myself to do better. These are powerful emotions and don't underestimate them.  In retrospect, I feel, what the hell was I thinking? That took me a few years post relationship to really understand.

[ForeverDad]

Did your self esteem take a hit in your relationship?

Yes, I had been an elder in the congregation until it got too much in the final couple years together.  The stress before, during and after the divorce hurt my health and I never tried to reach out again.  Oh, and I'm still single.

If so, how do you think you were able to overcome that enough to get out?

Well, I did a few things right in the final months.  I sought a marriage counselor which turned into personal counseling for a few visits.  I started putting my paycheck into a personal account.  (Long story.)

But the fact is that I dithered far too long before seeking help.  Our marriage imploded in her final blow-up.  Separated for several months and then forced into divorce.  I did file but really it was after our initial separation temp orders were dismissed and when court stepped back she blocked my parenting.  I had no choice but to proceed.

[Notwendy]

Your friend sounds a lot like where my father was in his relationship with my BPD mother.

The relationship has been going on over 40 years, since they were both 15.  The relationship is very abusive and controlling.  He is utterly obedient to her and lives in fear of upsetting her in anyway.

The way you see your friend is very much like I perceived my father- a genuinely nice man who got involved with a very emotionally disturbed woman and somehow was the victim of her behavior. Like you, as an adult, I wanted to help my father.

What changed my own perspective was that, as a child growing up with these dynamics, we were all walking on eggshells and emotionally caretaking my BPD mother. This was my "normal" growing up. I didn't know any other way to act in relationships. I also didn't see anything wrong with this. Dad was the good guy in the family and I wanted to be that good person too.

These behaviors were functional in my family but dysfunctional in my adult relationships. As Kells said, I also "hit bottom" with the chaos and went to a counselor who told me I was co-dependent and referred me to CODA and ACA groups in addition to counseling. It was only when I looked at my own behaviors that I was able to understand my father's role in his relationship. Good guys can also be co-dependent and while this kind of caretaking appears to be doing the right thing, it is actually controlling and enabling.

Humans are like any other living organism in that our behaviors follow a pattern of "cost of behavior" and "reward" or reinforcement.  As long as the reward is greater than he cost, the behavior will persist. Some behaviors, like addictions, can have a very high cost, but the reward to the person is greater somehow, and so the behaviors persist. Sometimes the reward to the person isn't obvious to an observer, but it's there for the person, and so the person continues the behavior even if we don't understand or see it.

How does someone put up with this kind of relationship for 40 years? Your friend is a grown adult. My guess is that he's competent in many areas of his life. He can make a decision and follow through with it. That's my father- accomplished in his career, wage earner, parent. Yet, somehow my mother controlled him and he was an extension of her and seemed unable to say no to her. This relationship had a high cost to it but--- somehow he must have gotten a higher reward, or he would not have put up with her behavior.

I understand the resistance to the term co-dependency, and I think it's due to the "dependent" part of it. The people I know who are also co-dependent are independent people, self sufficient, wage earners. They are not dependent people. But in this relationship, they are focused on the other person, reacting to the other person rather than deciding their own actions- they have a sort of emotional tie to them that is complicated and hard to understand from the outside. For the pwBPD- they have no incentive to change their behavior because the behavior is being rewarded when their partner enables them. They also may not have the capacity to change. Change has to come from the partner.

This is what is meant by "hitting bottom" - when the cost of their enabling behavior is greater than the reward. Or they have just tried everything they can and they seek help- and while it seems the person with BPD is the problem, the partner may be the one more likely to make their own changes.

One of the reasons we don't encourage posters to stay or leave is that each person has their own path to take in this decision process. Each person has their own unique circumstances in their relationship. I can't decide for anyone else here- I couldn't decide for my father. It was his relationship. Same for you. You want to support your friend but it's his relationship to decide on. He's also been in this pattern for 40 years. This is a long time - he may not even know how to be in a relationship any other way. Even if it's a difficult one, we tend to choose familiarity over the unknown.

Friends, or other family members, may have all the best intentions but may actually be enabling the partner themselves, but not know it. Support from friends and family is important. Your friend needs to know that you care about him. The problem is that- for him to make changes, he needs someone to challenge him, turn the mirror on him, and that requires someone in a different relationship to him. When we vent to a friend, it helps us feel better, and friends validate us.  It took someone to turn the mirror on my own behavior for me to know what to change. That person wasn't a supportive friend in the traditional sense- it was a tough love relationship that I asked for- a counselor, a 12 step sponsor. It wasn't always comfortable but until I did this, I didn't see the dysfunction in my own behaviors.

Your friend can continue with the MC if he wants, but after 40 years of these dynamics, I think ( and this is only my opinion) - he needs his own counselor. Let the counselor be the one he discusses his relationship with and you, be his supportive friend but let the counselor and/or 12 step CODA counselor do the "tough love" process with him. You be his friend in addition. This kind of friendship is essential but it doesn't take the place of counseling. Yes, he will vent to you and you can validate him, but  I think he also needs someone like a counselor to help him to make changes. If you can encourage him to do this, that is another way to help him.