Advice on Filing Divorce

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi all.  I'm nearing the 12 month separation mark with my wife and I plan to file for divorce in a few weeks.  That's a requirement in my state unless there was adultery involved...then you can divorce at anytime.  My wife did leave me for another man but I figured the fireworks of saying the truth out loud would be worse than waiting out the year since she's so worried about what her family and church will think.

We've yet to consult an attorney and my wife has consistently demanded for me to pay off her new car (roughly 26k left) and her credit cards (roughly 15k).  I've tried to pin her down about getting an agreement in writing for the judge, which she's refused to do.  So this past week I sent her an email recapping the above ask and telling her that if I didn't hear from her in the next week, that's what I'd put in the court paperwork.  Naturally I haven't heard anything.

My wife has never really cared about "stuff" and neither of us are focused on money.  She makes $35k a year, I make $125k, and her friends have been pushing her to seek alimony and an attorney.  So far she's thought against that since she knows that if I tell the actual truth in court, it will not play in her favor.  The kids are grown so that's a non-issue, we've already divided up what little savings we had, and there's nothing else of value except for our home, which I plan to keep since we just refinanced and cashed out before she left.

I know I should at least speak to an attorney and I'm not asking for that type of advice.  Instead, my only real question is if I should trust my wife to continue to being civil and making this a simple divorce?  I've been asking for about two months now to write out and sign a financial agreement, and she has been receptive but consistently said, "I'm just really busy."  I think she wants a speedy divorce as well so she can officially start dating the new guy in public without being seen as a complete whore.

Any advice from your personal experience?  Do I trust her to remain civil or do I start by filing the adultery route and invoking a war?

[Pook075]

Hi all.  I'm nearing the 12 month separation mark with my wife and I plan to file for divorce in a few weeks.  That's a requirement in my state unless there was adultery involved...then you can divorce at anytime.  My wife did leave me for another man but I figured the fireworks of saying the truth out loud would be worse than waiting out the year since she's so worried about what her family and church will think.

We've yet to consult an attorney and my wife has consistently demanded for me to pay off her new car (roughly 26k left) and her credit cards (roughly 15k).  I've tried to pin her down about getting an agreement in writing for the judge, which she's refused to do.  So this past week I sent her an email recapping the above ask and telling her that if I didn't hear from her in the next week, that's what I'd put in the court paperwork.  Naturally I haven't heard anything.

My wife has never really cared about "stuff" and neither of us are focused on money.  She makes $35k a year, I make $125k, and her friends have been pushing her to seek alimony and an attorney.  So far she's thought against that since she knows that if I tell the actual truth in court, it will not play in her favor.  The kids are grown so that's a non-issue, we've already divided up what little savings we had, and there's nothing else of value except for our home, which I plan to keep since we just refinanced and cashed out before she left.

I know I should at least speak to an attorney and I'm not asking for that type of advice.  Instead, my only real question is if I should trust my wife to continue to being civil and making this a simple divorce?  I've been asking for about two months now to write out and sign a financial agreement, and she has been receptive but consistently said, "I'm just really busy."  I think she wants a speedy divorce as well so she can officially start dating the new guy in public without being seen as a complete whore.

Any advice from your personal experience?  Do I trust her to remain civil or do I start by filing the adultery route and invoking a war?

[EyesUp]

Pook,

Sorry I don't know your backstory - However, if you're here, it's because someone in your life doesn't play fair. Given your STBX's infidelity, is it fair to say it's her?  If yes, then I think you already know the answer to your question:  At some point, disordered thinking is going to come into play - formally filing for D could be the trigger.

If STBX is n/BPD, some of things that can be major triggers are abandonment, loss of status, or any threat or insult - real or perceived.

My advice is to interview as many attorneys in your area as possible to identify one who demonstrates real experience with your specific situation.  As a practical matter - If you already have an attorney, what have they advised you re: the court's disposition re: the marital home, or the proceeds from the recent cash out?  How long were you married?  If your kids are emancipated, you may still be on the hook for alimony depending on the guidelines in your state and what your STBX will or won't accept.

Based on my experience (n/BPD X - including infidelity on her part), I filed for a no-fault D and gave X every opportunity for a no-conflict agreement.  She was dating while we cohabitated for a while - that's a minefield (be ready for false DV accusations to get you out of the house so she can squat and/or retain the marital home - depending on how dirty her attorney wants to play) - but eventually moved out when the financial aspect of the house became clear (i.e., in my case there was no scenario in which my X would be able to afford the house, including her income + CS + alimony).  So I was able to retain the marital residence - but D took more than 12 months and $40k in atty fees, and I agreed to keep a chunk of her debt as part of the deal.

My gut feeling is that your STBX will respond well to financial incentives, so at the right time, if you can afford to let her off the hook for her own CC debt - that might be a strong bargaining chip.

If you haven't already, read Splitting by Bill Eddy and be ready for anything.

Good luck!

[Pook075]

My gut feeling is that your STBX will respond well to financial incentives, so at the right time, if you can afford to let her off the hook for her own CC debt - that might be a strong bargaining chip.

If you haven't already, read Splitting by Bill Eddy and be ready for anything.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the advice, I will consider all of it.  A recap of my story- married a few weeks under 24 years, marriage fell apart suddenly when she secretly pursued another man out of nowhere, she refused all forms of counseling.  Doc diagnosed my wife with BPD around the separation, she was previously treated 5+ years for chronic depression.  My kids are 24 (also BPD like her mom) and 22 (normal kid), both living on their own, so they don't really play into this.  Both kids are on my side but trying to stay neutral because of their mom's instability.

The thing that gives me hope that my ex wife will play fair is because she's insisted on a divorce as quickly as possible this entire time (so she can stop hiding her secret love affair).  She told me about it, my 22 year old, and her mom/dad...but nobody else knows.  I've kept my mouth shut to avoid her escalations.  I still care about her but very ready to move on.

[ForeverDad]

I will preface this by reminding you that you are asking whether you need strategies, therefore what we tell you is for your eyes only, don't go blabbing just any comments to her.  Why?  You can't be sure which information you share with her may turn out to enable her to sabotage you.

If you were striving to repair the marriage, then yes you would share.  But if you've concluded the marriage will end, then be cautious what you share, usually only everyday matters and about the children, though yours are grown now.  The point is that you need to beware of sharing TMI.  That said...

Does she imagine that you two will use one attorney.  It may be legal to do it that way if you reach a settlement beforehand or perhaps use someone like a divorce mediator.  But I think she hasn't pondered it and may decide to hire one once she realizes it.

Ask your lawyer whether she needs her own lawyer.

As EyesUp suggested, do get consultations with other lawyers, you'll get a variety of strategies which is good for you.  However, if lawyers have consulted with you, it may block her from hiring those lawyers.  That itself can be a strategy.  Ask your personal attorney, not the "our" attorney.

Long marriages in some states were lifetime alimony but that's yesteryear likely.  These days alimony is usually a few years (no more than half the marriage's length and often much less) to assist the disadvantaged spouse to transition to single life or find a career.

If she is expecting alimony and wants a lot for a long time then try to have it include a remarriage or cohabitation clause to put a limit to any alimony length or amount.  As you said, she wants to remarry...

[Turkish]

Supporters (enablers) are expected, whether or not they know she has a Beau. Eat, Pray, Love is unfortunately accepted 

Strike while the iron is hot! She's into her new r/s. My ex was and despite loving police and courts, she was reluctant to go to court.  This was likely because she might be exposed as being a cheater, though that is legally irrelevant in California. No way was I going to do a "handshake" agreement on child support (in our case) with a 1 and 4yo. I met with one, then hired the 2nd lawyer to write and file the stipulation and CS order. It took 5 months.

I swallowed my pain and used her new luv to my advantage to encourage her to sign an objective, boilerplate order. The L filed and it was signed by a judge, no court Appearances. I was also able to have her served by Mail to avoid the humiliation of a process server. She seemed relieved by that. I also used the communication tools to help reduce conflict.

If I hadn't have pushed her, she'd likely have stayed in the home for half a year more. The delta between our incomes wasn't as significant as yours, but close.

[Turkish]

About incomes... I was $96k and she about $50k in 2013. We provided pay slips. What I read online a few months before was to reduce my pre-tax 401(k) contributions, and I did only to get my company 4% match. I had previously been maxing out. My L also asked about bonuses. I said, truthfully, that it was variable and I couldn't provide a number. I'm not sure how this would work with alimony, especially since the GOP tax law in the USA  eliminated the alimony deduction, but I'd ask your lawyer. It's not mean or unfair to reduce your liability. She chose her bed, let her lie in it.

[yellowbutterfly]

In my case the answer was NO. I should have heeded the advice and not trusted him to be civil. He ruined everything with me trusting him in  divorce process: from false allegations, to me losing my apartment, to a lot of financial pain, abusing the system, wasting my money and dragging out the legal fees.

I’m not going to recap my story but instead warn you in my experience nothing about divorcing a pwBPD was easy, civil, or sane.

Wishing you the best in your experience - keep yourself grounded and guarded.

[ForeverDad]

There is a spectrum of poor behaviors respecting BPD, they may be severe or less severe.  A few may even be somewhat mild, though those reported by members here (we who were so impacted that we desperately sought out peer support) indicate what the others stated, the risk is very high for sabotage and obstructions.

If you manage to divorce with fewer disasters, then count your blessings.  Hope for the best, but plan and strategize to handle the worst.

[Pook075]

Thanks everyone- that is humbling.  My ex was on the more mild side of BPD most of the marriage, but a switch did flip last year and she was highly abusive for maybe 3 months.  Then she started being subdued and very quiet around me, maybe guilt for what she did?  Not sure.  Or maybe it didn't work out with the other guy (she's a caretaker in his home for another person there, so hard to tell).  In any case, she's been very civil for the last nine months but contact has been highly limited.  I only reach out over our kids and we have short, fairly normal conversations.

I'll go see a lawyer this week.  If there's a chance to avoid court and just end this, I'd be all for that.

[ForeverDad]

I'll go see a lawyer this week.  If there's a chance to avoid court and just end this, I'd be all for that.

Get consultations with a few lawyers, then decide which have the most experience and solid strategies.  Look for proactive, not aggressive.  William Eddy's SPLITTING handbook is the best guide.

Most here, but not all, found that a divorce fosters brinkmanship, who will give in first, then just when you conclude there will never be a meeting of the two minds and it's time for the court trial, at the last minute a settlement is devised.  (However, if you can settle equitably without Gifting too much away, then great!)  For me, I entered the court house on Trial Day ready for the trial to begin and was greeted with news I never expected to hear, stbEx was ready to settle.

[Cat Familiar]

My ex had found a new girlfriend when I began the divorce. I started the process with Legal Aid thinking it wasn’t complicated and we could both come to an agreement. At issue was the property I purchased with an inheritance, so the next step was talking with a separate attorney about that. At first, I had the naive notion that we could continue to share the property and I would build my own house and he could build his. Win/win. But the title should be in my name since all the funds came from me. California law agreed with this…but he didn’t.

Unbeknownst to me, he hired the most pit bull local attorney he could find and went after me for half the property, and financial support.

It got incredibly ugly, with him making claims against things I had bought with my own money after our separation, such as my truck.

In the end, my interests prevailed, though I still had to pay him more money than I thought reasonable. I ended up paying off the credit card that he maxed out, which still had my name on it, though he had lied and told me that he had removed me from the account. I learned it doesn’t work like that.

Anything can happen with a pwBPD in the midst of divorce, so I suggest you protect your interests and don’t concede anything at the beginning, as you might need to use that as a bargaining chip later.