Can a slow approach to separation help?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello folks

This is my first post, although I have been reading others' posts on this forum for a few months now, and have found that incredibly helpful.

A little bit about my relationship... My spouse has uBPD, and they are in treatment for other psychiatric conditions. We have been together 4 years, married a little over a year, and we currently live together. We own a home together and do not have children.

Things have always been very volatile, as they are prone to episodes of rage, crying spells, and threats of suicide. As they have mostly driven off everyone in their lives with this behavior, I am currently one of the only people in their circles, and the one who has known them the longest. They are also heavily dependent on me, with day-to-day things like finances, house chores, their self-care, etc. It has become very codependent, and I do see the part I have played in making it that way.

We had two major conflicts, earlier this year, that finally made me realize the relationship was abusive and I needed to get out. I am, however, unable to leave them right now, as my ability to stay in the country is tied to our being married. This will not always be the case, so I am waiting for that to change before I can move out or ask for a divorce.

We have been going to therapy together the last few months, in addition to us doing therapy individually. In therapy, we have agreed that we are no longer romantic partners, and we sleep in separate bedrooms. I have started to express wanting to live separately and eventually get a divorce, and my spouse has mostly reacted okay, although there have been some explosions outside of therapy, and I am scared of more splitting episodes.

A few weeks ago, I read this article, and I was pleasantly surprised that it describes almost exactly what my approach has been with the separation so far!: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305771.0

I'm wondering if others have had any success with a slower and more impersonal ("it's not you, it's me") approach to breaking up? I'd love to hear from anyone who's tried it, even if it failed or backfired. I know many more episodes and explosions are likely before it's all over—but I'd like to avoid things getting so escalated that we end up in court, or having to involve the police. I just don't know how realistic it is to even hope for that at this point.

Thank you for reading 

[livethequestions]

Hello folks

This is my first post, although I have been reading others' posts on this forum for a few months now, and have found that incredibly helpful.

A little bit about my relationship... My spouse has uBPD, and they are in treatment for other psychiatric conditions. We have been together 4 years, married a little over a year, and we currently live together. We own a home together and do not have children.

Things have always been very volatile, as they are prone to episodes of rage, crying spells, and threats of suicide. As they have mostly driven off everyone in their lives with this behavior, I am currently one of the only people in their circles, and the one who has known them the longest. They are also heavily dependent on me, with day-to-day things like finances, house chores, their self-care, etc. It has become very codependent, and I do see the part I have played in making it that way.

We had two major conflicts, earlier this year, that finally made me realize the relationship was abusive and I needed to get out. I am, however, unable to leave them right now, as my ability to stay in the country is tied to our being married. This will not always be the case, so I am waiting for that to change before I can move out or ask for a divorce.

We have been going to therapy together the last few months, in addition to us doing therapy individually. In therapy, we have agreed that we are no longer romantic partners, and we sleep in separate bedrooms. I have started to express wanting to live separately and eventually get a divorce, and my spouse has mostly reacted okay, although there have been some explosions outside of therapy, and I am scared of more splitting episodes.

A few weeks ago, I read this article, and I was pleasantly surprised that it describes almost exactly what my approach has been with the separation so far!: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305771.0

I'm wondering if others have had any success with a slower and more impersonal ("it's not you, it's me") approach to breaking up? I'd love to hear from anyone who's tried it, even if it failed or backfired. I know many more episodes and explosions are likely before it's all over—but I'd like to avoid things getting so escalated that we end up in court, or having to involve the police. I just don't know how realistic it is to even hope for that at this point.

Thank you for reading 

[tranch]

As you know, we have some similar questions right now . I'm glad for you that you at least have some clarity and have gotten the ball rolling in the direction you think you need to go.

I'm totally with you in that accidental codependent situation. It feels hard to leave someone once you've allowed yourself to become their everything, even if you never really wanted to be. Something different in my case is that my wife is diagnosed. I'm not always sure this is a good thing. I guess it's good to know peoples' limitations, but I think she being "a patient" made it more justifiable for me to pick up more and more of the load, without thinking how lobsided that made the relationship.

Does your partner know/understand they have BPD? Or is this something you've pieced together but kept to yourself?

Which of the therapy do you think has been helfpul? I can imagine that your partner having that support person in place is a relief.

I read the article you linked to and it's very good to know. I honestly kind of cringe at seeing references to "The Borderline" like some hopeless case. I'd hate for my wife to see herself described like that; she has always been suspicious about mental health professionals not liking to work with pwBPD. BUT it's good for us to get that perspective about how to approach it from our own point of view. Maybe the point is you might have to be a little cold to allow yourself to stop holding on to hope and to allow them to start detaching. Ugh, so hard.

Best of luck, it really sounds like you're on the right track according to what you're aiming for.

[livethequestions]

Thank you for the encouragement, tranch! 

My spouse does not have a formal BPD diagnosis. Sometimes they can admit that they have BPD traits, sometimes they can't—or just disagree that BPD even exists. It's challenging. How long has your wife been aware of her diagnosis?

Both the relationship therapist and my spouse's individual therapist have been great at making my spouse feel heard and safe, and my spouse trusts them both, which is no small feat (and is of course subject to change). They are not trained in DBT, which is a bummer, but the relationship therapist is aware that I believe my spouse has BPD.

I agree some of the language in the article is cringe-worthy, and I feel like it could really use an update, but like you said, still helpful for us as loved ones. I have "completed" pretty much every step of the detachment phase, and some steps in the ending phase. I feel guilty at times, because it feels manipulative/calculating, but I also don't feel like I have much of a choice, as attempts to do it differently have led to so much escalation and conflict.

[ForeverDad]

Sometimes we can pull the band aid off slowly, too often it escalates and the other spouse forces it to be ripped off quickly - in a slow divorce process.  Each person's results may vary.  Be prepared either way.

[tranch]

I'm still mulling it over, whether I could do the "it's not you, it's me." I mean I have been feeling more low at times so I could do it without exaggerating. If it's working for you, and it sounds like it is, that's great, but I just feel like the approach in the article makes most sense when you've "detected the issue" early and know you're just trying to back away slowly.

In my case, I don't think we can unsay or unfeel everything. I don't think I could back away without an explanation. I think I'd have to tell her I'm unhappy with "the" progress or with the state of our relationship, and I honestly think she'd have better closure and ability to move on and improve afterward (an aspect totally ignored in that article) if I was honest about what's not working for me.

Today was a good day by the way, and I'm finding myself still in it, with full hope. I almost feel hypocritical because this is as fickle and fair-weather hopeful as she is.

We found out about BPD together, when we were very young, must have been 25, (15 yes ago) in a book store. I think Stop Walking On Eggshells caught my eye because that's exactly what I felt. I'm pretty sure we literally giggled out loud together when we read the diagnostic material like...omg this was her exactly.

 

[tranch]

How did you start to realize that they seemed to have BPD? Did you have previous experience?

[livethequestions]

I'm really glad today's been a good day for you, tranch. I hope you get many more of those, with or without her in your life!

It sounds like you wife has generally more insight and self-awareness than my spouse does—which I imagine helps in many ways, but I know you've mentioned it can be a curse, too (with the learned helplessness).

I studied psychology and counseling in college (not currently my career, though), so that's why I knew a little about BPD, and I have a family member with strong BPD traits.

What first led me to suspect BPD for my spouse was the splitting. From what they have told me, all of their friendships and relationships, before me and since knowing me, were very intense, then ended just as intensely—usually with my spouse discarding them. I have watched them block people's number over minor arguments, and never look back, time and again. They are currently not talking to their family, and they do not have any friends. Other than me, they have one friend they've known a couple of months, and I'm expecting it will end soon enough, unfortunately. (That's been the pattern.)

Then, there are the episodes, that almost always seem to come out of nowhere, and that have been there since the beginning. One minute they are fine, the next they are screaming, hitting themselves, talking about suicide, and (more recently) being verbally abusive toward me.

There's also a lot of impulsivity with spending, driving, etc. They have a higher earning potential than I do, but they have not been able to hold on to a job for longer than 6 months (at least since I've known them), and they tend to spend all of their money right away. I am usually left with all the bills.

It does sound like our situations are different in many ways, tranch—you've known about her BPD for a long time, been married a long time, and (hopefully) she is not currently abusive toward you. Likely your approach will need to be different than my own.

Thank you, ForeverDad, for the words of wisdom. Rationally, I understand the most likely outcome is a high-conflict separation, and it would take a small miracle for my spouse to agree to part ways amicably. But, I have to try. If it fails, it fails. I'm also fine with them discarding me; but I'd rather have that happen once my status in the country is not tied to our marriage, and once we've at least somewhat figured out housing and pets.

We had some good conversations today. They know I want to live alone and we are romantically no longer together and will get a divorce eventually. We talked about where they might want to live, since I paid for the place we currently share, and how they might be able to afford it, with a little bit of my help at first. I am keeping my fingers crossed for more positive chats like that.

[livednlearned]

What happens probably depends a lot on whether your partner is a high-conflict personality in the way Bill Eddy describes. Someone who is a high-conflict personality (HCP) tends to recruit negative advocates, has a target of blame (you), is a persuasive blamer, and has a personality disorder. You can have a PD and not be HCP, but someone who is HCP always has a PD.

Eddy also classifies PDs by difficulty/danger:

*generally cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, not dangerous
*not cooperative, dangerous

By dangerous, he means domestic violence, substance abuse, false allegations, child abuse, sexual assault. He includes suicidal ideation as a form of danger.

How would you describe your partner?

It might help to think this through with you to know the degree of danger (if any) you feel is present, and how it manifests.

[livethequestions]

Hi livednlearned,

Thank you for the framework. I read parts of "Splitting," but have not spent much time looking into high-conflict personalities.

I would consider my spouse to be "generally cooperative, not dangerous" on a good day, and "not cooperative, not dangerous" during an episode—with the notable exception of how often they threaten suicide.

I have seen them in MANY major conflicts with others, and they tend to dig their heels in and have what I would call a litigious mentality, but the follow-through just isn't there. Usually, they fail at recruiting steady advocates. Some people may agree with them at first, but then quickly realize how unreasonable my spouse is being, and abandon the crusade. Once that happens, my spouse tends to 'resolve' the conflict by doing a mass discard, and washing their hands of the whole situation. Even when we've called the hotline together (due to their threatening suicide), the counselors saw through their bullsh*t real quick (they were trying to convince the counselors I was "crazy and abusive").

That's always given me some hope that I could get out of this situation, well, not unscathed exactly, but... possibly without involving the court or the police.