Trying to hold strong

[Stuck2023]

I mentioned on my intro post that I'm conflicted on continuing with my marriage as it is. I mentioned it and he's agreed to some couples counseling so we can discuss things with a witness/mediator/referee. It was not a fun conversation to have and was followed by 2 days of emotional nightmare where I was verbally sniped at, or ignored, my pictures taken down and generally feeling awful.

We're now in the stage of trying to find the right counsellor who has suitable space and time and in budget, and the husband is being... well what I would consider normal. Upset but functional and polite and helping around the house and caring (not overly so like clingy, but like just the right amount). We're 4 days into this and my stupid brain is already throwing in the doubts...

"See he's not mad he's just upset", "maybe he's always been productive and you've just not seen it", "maybe you can just talk it out yourselves", "maybe you're seeing things too cynically"...

I have to hold out until we actually get into counseling. I need a proper 3rd party independent witness on our relationship and to come to a proper informed decision over whether it's going to last or not. I keep telling myself a couple of days of good does not appropriately counterbalance the months of exhaustion. Its like quitting smoking all over again. It doesn't matter how good it looks don't do it, don't give in...

Has anyone got tips for this?

[ForeverDad]

Yes, a couple days of good or not-so-bad behavior does not a pattern make.  Your spouse is making a special effort not to act out, short term.  So now you're walking on egg shells, not knowing precisely when the egg shells will break.  Sadly, it may be a matter of when, not if.  Be prepared for either scenario.

You know the long term pattern, it is inconsistent and more or less predictably unpredictable.  Your spouse may hold it together during the sessions, or not.  Your spouse may hold it together after sessions, or not ... probably not.

[livethequestions]

I have been there many times. It's especially hard because the person with BPD may act like this is how they always are—pleasant and helpful. Even when you know better, it's so tempting to let yourself believe that.

There is a reason we married them. Sometimes, they are truly wonderful, charming—and everything we thought we wanted in a partner.

I think somehow we have to be able to hold both truths. This is the wonderful person I married, and this is also the monster who treats me like crap. And they are one and the same.

I almost let myself believe for a while recently—they had not had any outbursts in a few weeks. And sure enough, another outburst came, and I remembered why I am leaving them.

Stay the course. I don't have many tips other than that. If you like to journal, or if you have someone you trust that you can talk to about this, it can help. You can write/say statements that objectively summarize the situation, to remind yourself of everything that's gone down. (Like him taking down your pictures, taking off his ring, etc.) Hope this helps some!

[kells76]

Hi Stuck2023;

Great thoughts from ForeverDad and livethequestions about:

a couple days of good or not-so-bad behavior does not a pattern make.

and

If you like to journal, or if you have someone you trust that you can talk to about this, it can help. You can write/say statements that objectively summarize the situation, to remind yourself of everything that's gone down. (Like him taking down your pictures, taking off his ring, etc.)

Maybe those ideas can help you find a balanced place from which to make some decisions. For example, it could be OK to think about the good days and not to have to discount those -- "Yes, it is nice to have good days", without having to add right away "but they don't mean anything". It could just be recognizing that you appreciate having low conflict days. It is meaningful to you to have a break with the good days.

And you can balance that with journaling or record keeping, where you see those days as part of a longer pattern, and you can look at that pattern over the years to help you decide how you want to move forward. Kind of like -- "Well, over the last four years, we typically have five calmer days in a row, then two days where the conflicts typically last three hours or more".

It could be tied together by balancing the fact that you recognize that the good days are positive and are part of a larger pattern at the same time, and that as you gather more information both by journaling and by the new variable of MC, you know that you will be getting closer to getting the information and big picture you need to make some choices.

It is okay to be where you are right now, where you are in this limbo of appreciating the better days, being exhausted by months of conflict, and waiting for a counselor. You can know that that's all true, and that you will continue to gather information to help you know how to proceed.

Some self-talk could sound like: "I do like the break I get on days where my H is polite and helpful. That is okay for me to like in the middle of very hard months. It is okay for me to not know right now if this will last. I have confidence that in the future, I will have the information I need to decide."

livethequestions summarized it well:

I think somehow we have to be able to hold both truths. This is the wonderful person I married, and this is also the monster who treats me like crap. And they are one and the same.

Let us know your thoughts on journaling/record-keeping -- would be interested to hear if you think it'd be helpful.

-kells76

[Stuck2023]

Thank you for the replies. I've been off here for bit as life caught up and I notice already the difference in my mental state from not having access to reference material from others in similar situations.

I've been journaling - I do it anyway for unrelated reasons, but from our first fall out when I mentioned marriage counselling I started jotting down what he'd done as well. Not enough to log a trend maybe but its a start I guess.

We have a first counselling session booked for the end of this week. Yesterday there was another "upset" where he broke down in tears about how he "doesn't know what he's doing wrong". I managed to not get into it though and say I would only discuss it in the session. I think if I had, he would just talk me in circles again and nothing will change. In fact that particular outburst ended smoother than many others, so that's a sign I did it right I guess?

Trend note I just realised; just before the outburst housework was dialing down again, starting directly afterwards he's picked up and even done full on DIY jobs he hates unprompted.

[livethequestions]

We have a first counselling session booked for the end of this week. Yesterday there was another "upset" where he broke down in tears about how he "doesn't know what he's doing wrong". I managed to not get into it though and say I would only discuss it in the session. I think if I had, he would just talk me in circles again and nothing will change. In fact that particular outburst ended smoother than many others, so that's a sign I did it right I guess?

"Not getting into it" I think is key. As I am navigating the separation, there are many times my spouse gets upset, or has outbursts. I apply the Support Empathy Truth model a lot, and that seems to work well. Like with your husband, my spouse tends to calm down faster. I don't get stuck on the details, I don't try to argue; it's pointless anyway. It might be the world's longest break-up, but I'm patient.

Let us know how the first counseling session went, if you'd like!

[Smedley Butler]

"I'm not going to argue" has become my absolute go-to. If applicable, I'll state my opinion or feelings on a matter, and then if / when she starts demanding explanations for why I feel the way I do, I just tell her I'm not going to argue. She dropped a last minute task on me this weekend (taking daughter to a birthday party) that she had known about and just didn't want to go to herself. It annoys me when I get last minute taskers to begin with, but sometimes stuff pops up and I get that. But this was simply a case of she didn't want to go, and asked (told) me to do it. Add to it that I work all week and Saturday is my one full day to do stuff around the house, and I was, think justifiably, annoyed. She immediately went into her "why does that make you so angry just to take Kate to a birthday party" misdirection/strawman BS. Historically I would have responded to THAT with ACTUAL anger, then the fight becomes about whether or not I have a right to be angry, and eventually settles into the same ol "you never see anything wrong in yourself" argument, and then I find myself explaining once again why I did what I did or said what I said or whatever in 2012, 2016, 2020, last month, last week, or whenever. And then I sit there losing my mind trying to understand what we're even fighting about.

But this time I just said "I'm not going to argue. Next time please give me a little more of an advance notice on stuff like this" then just repeated "I'm not going to argue" to everything she said. Inside, of course, I was raging. But I kept it up until she eventually burned out.

It's all madness.

[Stuck2023]

"I'm not getting into it" is becoming my mantra, since it seems to work pretty well so far.

We've had our first session which was mostly paperwork and the usual warnings about confidentiality etc. A lot of background information gathering on us both. When we finally got to talking briefly about why we were there, he was honest about not really wanting to go. I was doing my best to explain my point without being blaming (if he does have BPD that's not his fault), but I felt he went a bit on the attack first, he expected me to be mean he admitted it later. I just kept my mouth shut for that one to avoid issues with only a little bit left of the session. I think the counsellor noticed, guess we'll see what happens this week with our first full session.