Back in the throes of manipulation again

[LouiseC]

I tried.

I tried to put love first. Met her took her out, gave her a nice day. We sit down to have something to eat that I am paying for.

She tries to hold it in for as long as she can and then she tells me that I am responsible for her abuse and attacks because I forced her into hugging me when she was a child. Totally untrue and a rewrite of the lovely childhood I provided for her.

But I bit my tongue and took her to the next place I promised on my list after the art exhibition she wanted to see. And she had calmed and behaved better. And I always think- this is the time, this is the final time when she realises.

Two weeks later she was broken, husband found out she was cheating on line and she hit rock bottom. She was about to lose everything. She pleaded with me to have her daughter whilst she worked it out. She turned to his parents she asked me for advice too. I said I really believe you can change and I love you so much. She came to meet me when I was coming back from work at the bus stop.

She said I really want to change I know what I need to do and I told her all the things I felt about how she had been with me and she said sorry.

Then he wanted to give it another try. And I'm still looking after her child, even though I have work and an ill son I want to care for properly. I love my grandchild of course.

So she drops her off with her husband talks to me like crap, orders him around, and tries to pull it back for him and goes full out as usual on me. And I'm over a barrel trying to help safe her marriage.

It's just hell. I'm sick of her and myself for believing things will get better.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

LouiseC,

I wonder if your daughter is on the spectrum? I am working through this question myself.

My stepdaughter (26) has pushed me to the edge. Given own experiences with BPD in both my family of origin and then with my ex, I am certain she has BPD.

She was recently diagnosed with autism. I've spent time trying to understand if it's possible she could have both autism and BPD, and was surprised to find research that supports this.

I'm not saying ALL people with BPD have autism, only that SOME people with BPD seem to be discovering that the base genetics predisposed them to BPD, which is often rooted in trauma. Trauma being their experience of having undiagnosed ASD in a world they experience as "wrong planet." I have this described as the "double empathy" problem where pwASD don't understand neurotypical people and vice versa.

The research is a bit distancing and only made sense to me after watching this woman describe from lived experience what it's like for her to have both ASD and BPD.

I only mention this because your daughter says she found it "abusive" that she was "forced to hug you as a child."

My son has autism and he has sensory issues that were a bit baffling to me when he was young. Eye contact for him is painful, for example. He can "mask" and get by but it's exhausting so he hits his limits faster than someone who does not have autism.

Autism in girls presents differently and there seems to be quite a high rate of autism in women diagnosed with BPD.

I don't know what to do about discovering SD26 has autism. That part of her isn't what I find difficult and it doesn't change the BPD behaviors that are the source of our conflict. It's mostly trying to understand how the two work in tandem. Validation became a problem for me when I first learned about it, and now I think what might've worked better was declarative language. I learned about this from a speech pathologist who said that people with autism struggle with social learning and imperative language (as simple as "pick up your clothes" is challenging because pwASD lack context clues and their episodic memory is poor.

Right now, my relationship with SD26 is a hundred percent boundaries. I communicate with her through validating questions as simple as "Oh?" Sometimes if I'm doing ok and have the energy and willingness I'll ask questions like "And then what?" "What happened next?" But mostly it's boundaries. I think it's because her amygdala is on tilt most of the time trying to manage sensory issues including the sensations from experiencing emotions she finds challenging to describe. That makes her impulsive and she ends up like a pin ball bouncing off other people who push her away.

Anyway, just wanted to toss out a new reality I'm trying to puzzle through myself.

[LouiseC]

LouiseC,

I wonder if your daughter is on the spectrum? I am working through this question myself.

OH yes she does have autism. She was diagnosed with both within a few months of each other recently.

And she has been bullied and sexually attacked. And she didn't deserve any of all the horrible things I was unable to prevent. But she is also rewriting her past. I didn't force her to hug me. I'm lucky that I have two other grown children so I can't be convinced of the horrible things she tells me I am and I do.

The cocktail of both autism and bpd is pretty horrendous for loved ones. I can't believe her as I don't know which one is talking, the manipulative BPD or the unawareness of autism, or both, or neither.

[AcheyMom]

Wow this is really odd.  My daughter was hospitalized recently.  When we went to visit she kept saying she thought she had autism.  I thought she was just being in denial about her diagnosis of bipolar and borderline. She kept talking about how she was watching videos and reading about autism and she thinks she has it.  As you know, the bpd causes them to be master manipulators so I never know what’s true or not.  After each visit I felt like my head was spinning.  The deflecting and outlandish claims and stories were mind boggling.  But now today I’ve seen two different parents talking about autism.  I had no idea it was relayed to bpd.  I never would have thought about autism.  She spoke early as a toddler and was pretty social as a child.  She didn’t want her foods to touch on her plate and she wasn’t overly affectionate.  She didn’t really hug back.  She was very sensitive to little things like the line on her sock across her toes needed to be perfectly straight.  It was hard to pick shoes because she’d say one pair was too tight abut the next one up was too loose.  The had to fit absolutely perfect.  Other than that she seemed absolutely fine until she was a teenager.

[Leaf56]

It's very easy to get an autism diagnosis these days. Pros can make a lot of money that way. I took my son to very reputable pros at 5, 11, 16, and 24. None of them could give him an autism diagnosis because, guess what? He's not autistic. Acheymom, my son had all the same perseverative behavior as your daughter. He was probably worse. But I've come to realize--so what? So, let's say our kids are "autistic." What then? Why does it matter? Just like BPD, there's no remedy for this supposed low-level autism. It just gives them more excuses and something else to blame. He graduated from college and was reasonably social and has had several good friends throughout his life. All I can say now is just get the f on with your life! Get a job! Stop smoking weed! Stop blaming your life on anything but yourself!