Ubpdxh is avoiding court proceedings and now wants mediation

[Tangled mangled]

Just need advise.

So I physically left my home with my children 4 months ago, awaiting finalising the divorce.

So far my ex has done everything to avoid court proceedings, he didn’t attend court proceedings to decide on child arrangement and refused mediation 8 months ago.

We are now close to a stage in the divorce where the court will decide on sharing the assets , mainly the family home and the first appointment is approaching.
All of a sudden, he now wants mediation to agree on sharing assets and child arrangement. He doesn’t want the children to live with him full time ( he only wanted to have children to keep me trapped) and enjoys their company short term. However following advice from services I have prevented contact with the children as he has not gone to court to contest the court order in place that prevents him from having any contact with the children.

My questions here are

1) is this an attempt to delay court process , pretending to negotiate
2) I’m guessing it’s not in his favour in terms of splitting assets: the government calculator states that I maybe entitled to over 60% of the assets as the children live with me.

I am reluctant to go to mediation because I see it as a data mining process rather than an a willingness to engaged in fair negotiations.
Any thoughts please?

[ForeverDad]

Few of us ever had successful mediation.  Usually it is ordered early in a divorce case and so we complied and of course made a sincere effort.  We tried to be reasonable, fair, Nice Guys or Nice Gals.  But we met manipulation, pressuring, stonewalling, almost making us sick.  So we moved on to the next step.

If court hasn't mandated mediation - and he wants it - then likely he would benefit more from mediation than you.

I suspect he wants personal contact.  So if you agree to mediation, can you state that one of the terms is to have separate rooms and the mediator then goes from room to room?  That might frustrate him, though.  He would be expecting to get what he wants while making you weak, as in the past.  One goal might be to get a piece of parenting so you're stuck with his presence regularly.

[Tangled mangled]

Few of us ever had successful mediation.  Usually it is ordered early in a divorce case and so we complied and of course made a sincere effort.  We tried to be reasonable, fair, Nice Guys or Nice Gals.  But we met manipulation, pressuring, stonewalling, almost making us sick.  So we moved on to the next step.

If court hasn't mandated mediation - and he wants it - then likely he would benefit more from mediation than you.

I suspect he wants personal contact.  So if you agree to mediation, can you state that one of the terms is to have separate rooms and the mediator then goes from room to room?  That might frustrate him, though.  He would be expecting to get what he wants while making you weak, as in the past.  One goal might be to get a piece of parenting so you're stuck with his presence regularly.

Thanks FD,

He sent me an email requesting child contact, I made the mistake of allowing contact with the children months ago ( against court order, this I regret) . He is now leveraging on that mistake to request that I allow the children to spend time with him over the summer holidays. The court order is only interim and apparently he’s contacted the court but has been informed that the order cannot be amended yet except it’s an emergency.

So he’s trying to use mediation to manipulate things to go his way.
In the Uk when DV is involved mediation is not recommended and I have relevant paperwork to avoid mediation. From experience in a different matter, mediation is done online/telephone and separately ( I think).

I’m tempted to go to mediation with an open mind just to encourage better communication/ relationship for coparenting. But I know this is my conscience urging me and in dealing with the disordered I’m learning to curtail my conscience and allow the heavy hand of the law to prevail.

I’m not a nice girl anymore , being nice is self sabotage: he is hoping I will play fair and go for 50/50 assets but what I’ve heard about other people’s experiences- fairness doesn’t work with the disordered. I see him leveraging on fairness.

Thanks for the heads up

[ForeverDad]

Also understand that division of assets may have little impact on parenting.

If you're concerned about your allowing brief contact with the kids (wasn't it only video?) in the past, you can take the position that it didn't work and you have since decided to continue following the order's terms.

If you appear wavering to him or to the court, then of course he may get more than he should.

Are you still feeling you have to be fair?  Yes, it's a hard habit to break, usually a good thing, but in certain circumstances we can't afford to be so fair.

[livednlearned]

I’m tempted to go to mediation with an open mind just to encourage better communication/ relationship for coparenting.

What do you think about proposing he pay for mediation and/or structure it so that there is an option for separate rooms, with mediator going between rooms. That's if you feel it's necessary to give it a try. It's not likely he will show up in good faith so you want to make sure you aren't on the hook for something unlikely to work.

My ex made stonewalling an art form. If I were to do things over, I would try to structure all interactions in ways where n/BPDx was accountable for his own stonewalling.

You know him best, so the sense that he wants negative engagement is something you might be better able to gauge.

Sometimes, BPD traits can become so pronounced due to stress that I'm not entirely certain they have a master plan other than thwart what you want at all costs, even if it means harming their own case.

It's a high-stress, high-threat state of mind with possibility for paranoia (this can happen to us) and potential for psychosis. Even if he has moments of relative calm, this is unlikely to remain so for any length of time.

What can be helpful for coparenting is setting the stage for consistency. Be clear about your path and try to not waver. He will be inclined to pull things this way and that simply because it's how his emotions work. They drive his mind and behaviors.

If you are curious and want to try mediation, approach it like an anthropological exercise to see if your hypotheses about what to expect checks out.

I'm pretty sure my ex agreed to things like deposition, mediation, court appearances because he wanted 1) direct face-to-face access to persuade me of something; and 2) an opportunity to elevate himself in front of others (at my expense).

I eventually realized the only thing worthwhile was having a goal that was my north star, sticking more or less to a loose strategy, and trying different tactics until I reached my goal.

Your ex's goal is likely to always be different with little overlap so entertain what he asks for and participate as long as you see a benefit.

[Tangled mangled]

Also understand that division of assets may have little impact on parenting.

If you're concerned about your allowing brief contact with the kids (wasn't it only video?) in the past, you can take the position that it didn't work and you have since decided to continue following the order's terms.

If you appear wavering to him or to the court, then of course he may get more than he should.

Are you still feeling you have to be fair?  Yes, it's a hard habit to break, usually a good thing, but in certain circumstances we can't afford to be so fair.

FD

The foolishness/ naivety in me allowed the children to have a full week with dad - at drop off he manipulated the older child 9 , into showing him where we live,  over 300 miles away ( huge mistake I made) . The children were desperate to see dad and I thought I was meeting their emotional needs. School was concerned that I went against court order as the children had behavioural issues after  the visit.

I learned today that he actually went to court a week ago to contest the court order but the judge didn’t agree to amending the order as the purpose of contact with children isn’t on emergency basis. He tried to gaslight the court saying he was unable to join the conference video call 8 months ago. I’m glad he met a judge who is thinking really straight ( in the past bpd husband has manipulated the court with tears and being in ‘ distress’).

About being fair, I don’t know that I can get rid of the habit but one thing I know is that I have been advised against engaging in mediation and I know my ex is trying to take a short cut to reaching a decision that benefits him alone. He cares nothing about the children. He somehow believes he will be treated specifically and without spending a penny, he is hoping he can keep most of the assets to himself.

The memory of him crying in court is helping me decide against mediation. I will seek legal advice and proceed as advised.
My ex suggested we settle splitting the assets out of court like we are sharing a vanilla cupcake or something (he can keep his magical thinking to himself).

Thank you

[Tangled mangled]

What do you think about proposing he pay for mediation and/or structure it so that there is an option for separate rooms, with mediator going between rooms. That's if you feel it's necessary to give it a try. It's not likely he will show up in good faith so you want to make sure you aren't on the hook for something unlikely to work.

My ex made stonewalling an art form. If I were to do things over, I would try to structure all interactions in ways where n/BPDx was accountable for his own stonewalling.

You know him best, so the sense that he wants negative engagement is something you might be better able to gauge.

Sometimes, BPD traits can become so pronounced due to stress that I'm not entirely certain they have a master plan other than thwart what you want at all costs, even if it means harming their own case.

It's a high-stress, high-threat state of mind with possibility for paranoia (this can happen to us) and potential for psychosis. Even if he has moments of relative calm, this is unlikely to remain so for any length of time.

What can be helpful for coparenting is setting the stage for consistency. Be clear about your path and try to not waver. He will be inclined to pull things this way and that simply because it's how his emotions work. They drive his mind and behaviors.

If you are curious and want to try mediation, approach it like an anthropological exercise to see if your hypotheses about what to expect checks out.

I'm pretty sure my ex agreed to things like deposition, mediation, court appearances because he wanted 1) direct face-to-face access to persuade me of something; and 2) an opportunity to elevate himself in front of others (at my expense).

I eventually realized the only thing worthwhile was having a goal that was my north star, sticking more or less to a loose strategy, and trying different tactics until I reached my goal.

Your ex's goal is likely to always be different with little overlap so entertain what he asks for and participate as long as you see a benefit.

Thank you for this LnL,

I’m working on being goal oriented myself: This YouTuber Richard Grannon made a video on this.

I need to be thinking about what effective steps I should be taking to reach my goal rather investing my effort into a situation that doesn’t benefit me in any way.

Over here, mediation will not cost me a penny due to historical DV, and it will be done online I can imagine with no contact with my ex.
I can see him stonewalling and controlling the process with his victim narrative that I abused him financially by going to medical school. Even though he was busy changing cars while we were struggling financially.

Mine too has the mindset to resisting any meaningful suggestions just to ensure I do not benefit from it even though it means he will lose more. So I might as well leave it to the court to decide and get a solicitor to fight my case.
Thank you for the suggestions, it helps to hear from others who have been through this mess

[livednlearned]

Congratulations on completing a long degree like that 

I did the same with a Phd throughout some of my marriage. I finished after we divorced.

There are similarities in what you describe your ex saying to what my ex said.

When people low on empathy feel emotionally injured, it is not uncommon to focus on transactional issues like who paid for what, how much things cost, whether you did this or he did that. Without empathy and self-awareness, life can seem a sum of small transactions to them.

I hope you know that you and your education are worthwhile. He may focus on these things because he knows it gets under your skin but over time, that type of narrative will become less likely to stick. If anything, he may feel upset to not benefit from what he perceives your profession will mean financially. I guess he should've thought of that when he was being mean to you.

In my current marriage, nothing is transactional and it's the first time in my life I've experienced someone who shares the same values I do. We pool our resources and take care of each other and make financial decisions together.

Keep moving forward one step at a time. You'll get there 

[Tangled mangled]

Thank you


[/quote]

[Tangled mangled]

Congratulations on completing a long degree like that  

I did the same with a Phd throughout some of my marriage. I finished after we divorced.

There are similarities in what you describe your ex saying to what my ex said.

When people low on empathy feel emotionally injured, it is not uncommon to focus on transactional issues like who paid for what, how much things cost, whether you did this or he did that. Without empathy and self-awareness, life can seem a sum of small transactions to them.

I hope you know that you and your education are worthwhile. He may focus on these things because he knows it gets under your skin but over time, that type of narrative will become less likely to stick. If anything, he may feel upset to not benefit from what he perceives your profession will mean financially. I guess he should've thought of that when he was being mean to you.

In my current marriage, nothing is transactional and it's the first time in my life I've experienced someone who shares the same values I do. We pool our resources and take care of each other and make financial decisions together.

Keep moving forward one step at a time. You'll get there  

Our experiences are truly similar.

Thank you for sharing and for the support, it’s truly appreciated.
I have had to delay qualifying due the ongoing stress caused by my ex. I am glad Im not a doctor yet for all kinds of weird reasons. I can’t imagine it will be in my favour in court in terms of negotiating finances if I was a doctor. Mine was grooming me to meet his needs while pretending to be the hardworking, long suffering martyr/ rescuer.
He has threatened my career saying I will not qualify and was doing everything to sabotage my efforts.
Encouraging to know there could be a brighter future after all this- in terms of future partner. I can imagine you have done a lot of self work.
Thanks again