A support thread for those of us who have decided to go no/minimal contact

[Leaf56]

I've been taking a little break from the board but just need to talk. After my run of successful phone calls with my son since September, he called and threw it all away in a few minutes, calling me a b****, etc. Then he sent the inevitable long apologetic email. I'm not biting, but of course, but it's Christmas, my weakest time. Shunning my son during Christmas. Just goshdarnit (g-rated version).

Murmom, I agree that it's the history here on this board that helps open your eyes. I'm so glad you feel seen here. I know from experience how much that helps. Beatrice, yes, so so hard to go NC by choice. Showjumper, you and I have a similar thing going on with our adult kids. It sounds that while they both had their issues, one day they suddenly changed and became different people. My son was always so sweet and never raged at me. I was just his biggest supporter and helper. Now, like you, everything's changed, and I'm just left grieving my "dead" son. Holdingontohope, wow what a truly difficult time you've had recently. I hope everyone knows that you can't write "too much" and that someone will always read every word and even if no one responds you're helping by just adding to the collective wealth of experience here. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[4dognight]

New here, but what a helpful summary of the struggles being faced. Thank you for that Leaf, and I’m so sorry to hear of the emotional whiplash you recently experienced. It’s so familiar and so very painful.

We also are looking at HOW to do Christmas. At Thanksgiving she came upstairs, got a plate and isolated in her hoarder room. The same kind of request will be put in place for this holiday. While last month was sad, it was also freeing, knowing that the tension and worry of an explosive episode would be less likely.

[holdingontohope]

Hi, Showjumper.  I am sorry, I didn't see this post until now.  I am still learning how to use this site--and I think I may have to change something in my settings so that I know when a message has been posted?  I will work on that. 

Thank you for responding, and I hear you.  My husband and I have gone to AA meetings in the past, but have not gone for years, now.  Makes me wonder if we should begin again.  I hear what you are saying that we have to truly "let go" and I have had that "I am DONE" moment more than once lately.  I am not all the way there, though--working through it, and realizing I need to get to that point, too.  What makes it so hard for me is what I will have to do when he comes back to me as soon as something bad happens--like his car breaks down, or his roommate kicks him out, or he loses his job and has no money.  He will cry, and tell me he NEEDS me, and can't do this alone, has nowhere to go--am I to STILL say no and turn my back on him?  It goes against everything in me to do so, but I KNOW he needs the tough love, and NEEDS to feel the pressure to make a change, and NEEDS to learn and grow from this.  But, he is already so angry at us for doing similar things in the past, if I am truly done once and for all with enabling him (I truly thought it was support, but see now that it wasn't)--will he EVER see the truth of the situation, and know how much is HURT me to have to say no and detach from him?  I just get swallowed up with pain even thinking about it, it makes it hard to move forward or get through the day, sometimes.  It can be so very all consuming, and that is hard.  Thank you for the book title, I will have to look into it.

And, thank you, Leaf56--your response brought instant tears to my eyes.  Just knowing someone read my words and truly heard me takes  just a bit of my pain away for the briefest of moments.  I am sorry for what you have been experiencing lately, as well.  Tough stuff, for sure. And yes, especially during the Christmas season.  I live for the hope that it won't always be so.

[Tulipps]

My daughter is in jail... 5 words I never imagined uttering. My incredibly intelligent, educated and beautiful 36 yr old daughter has finally hit bottom. Leaf – you were correct. Apparently it wasn’t a big leap from throwing eggs to physical assault. I’m told there were multiple complainants (old boyfriends) and multiple charges.
After hearing the news, I didn’t sleep for about a week, and when I did sleep, I awoke in a panic, wondering what would become of her. She’s unemployed, broke (likely bankrupt), without her dog, and incarcerated. Lots of deep breathing and Alanon reading to get back to a state of relative calm...
Thanks to some folks I know with insights re her specific situation and "the system", I've been assured she is ok and has accepted her situation. Here's hoping she takes advantage of mental health resources that should be available to her.
Strength to all.

[Showjumper]

Oh Tulipps, I am so sorry to hear this about your daughter. My heart goes out to you. We think they’ve done the worst thing, and then there’s more.
The sleepless nights probably made it so much worse I would think. I know for me, when there’s a lack of sleep I can’t even think straight. You did so well though by doing Alanon readings and getting to a relatively calm state. I don’t know that I would have been able to pull myself back from it that soon.
I wish you well.

[Leaf56]

Oh gosh, Tulipps, so so sorry this is happening. It just never ceases to amaze me that these kids of ours, who were given and born with every opportunity, make these choices. Nothing in my son's upbringing would ever have hinted that the state he's in is where he'd end up and clearly you feel the same way about your daughter. It's just astonishing on a daily basis. What are your hourly thoughts on getting involved?

[Showjumper]

Ugh, I am so sad, and I don’t feel like writing but I need to.
So today I made the mistake of picking up the phone when DD36 called me. We had talked a day earlier and it went well, though I think I instinctively ended it before it could devolve. It’s the holidays and she keeps indirectly mentioning coming up here. I’m so sad that’s not going to happen. My son and his girlfriend invited me to their house and I’m going. He casually mentioned “This will be your first time not seeing her for Christmas,” which just stabbed my heart.
I’m only 6 months into this and wish I had more experience dealing with it. Something has come up regarding her that I can hardly bear to talk about because it makes it somehow more real.
So I have a psych/neuro doc that I’ve had for more than 20 years (I have Bipolar, and it’s well treated. I live a pretty normal life). I’ve been talking to her about DD all these years so in some sense she “knows” her, and years ago did a consult for her and was the first to diagnose her autism. Anyway, in describing my DD’s complete personality change, and with what she knows about her and discussing other diagnoses with me (all this is second hand of course), she has been looking for answers for me and she brought up the possibility that DD may actually have Frontotemporal Dementia and really thought she needed to have a brain scan. She’s well respected in the neurology field and at present she feels this fits more than anything else.

I can’t tell you what that did to me. To think after these 6 short months of change in personality I may be losing her - who she essentially is - forever. She does have mental and physical trauma from being a soldier in Iraq, and one, possibly two TBI’s.
My doc brought this dx up a while ago and wants me to contact one of her docs at the VA and see if she can get a neuro workup, but DD gets furious at any hint I may be interfering in her care and feels I don’t trust her to make her own decisions about it and am “treating her like a baby,” which I do not do at all. I am so scared that if I contact somebody, she’ll cut me off completely, and then I would have no way of knowing if she had this. My worries all go to: what if she starts declining rapidly and can no longer care for herself? What if she loses her house, and on and on.
My son, 39 is very calm and level headed and told me he’s not going to worry until there’s a definitive dx.

When I talked to her today she seemed ok at first, then devolved into paranoia, talking about being stalked for ten years, sex trafficking going on in the Army and there is a big coverup, she’s joining the Canadian Air Force and is getting dual citizenship….all kinds of batsh*t (forgive me) crazy stuff. So that just seemed to me  to be confirming what my doc said. Doc said it’s fatal, and the course is usually in her experience 3-6 years.
I do not know how to wrap my head around this. I do not know how to be in this world right now. (FYI this is apparently what Bruce Willis has). Seeing those articles about him just makes me sad and numb. I can’t cry at all and wish I could as it would be some kind of release at least.
Thanks for listening. Any comments or advice is welcome.

[Leaf56]

Showjumper, how awful you must be feeling wondering if the diagnosis your psychiatrist proposed could be the cause of your daughter's sudden change in behavior. Have you discussed it with your daughter yet and if so is she willing to go for the imaging tests? From what I've read about it since you posted, it looks like it's super rare for that to happen to someone so young so I'm sure you're hoping for the best, but the fact that it has happened at all must make you wonder and worry. I hope you can stay in your sons' camp and keep it on the back burner of your mind until there is an actual diagnosis. Is it possible your psychiatrist just wants to rule it out with the tests but doesn't actually think it's a strong possibility? I hope so. When my son's personality suddenly changed 4 years ago I considered this type of thing or schizophrenia as the cause. Frankly I kind of wish it was, because then there'd be an explanation. But no, it was just the typical BPD reaction to my finally stopping overcaring for him and catering to his every complaint and no longer allowing him to threaten me with suicide. He can behave perfectly normally whenever he chooses to and especially if he thinks it'll get him something he wants.

Holdingontohope, as has been said here many times, "it's the hope that kills you." I'm pretty sure I've given up hope, but I try to remain openminded about his future even if that won't include me. This time of year is incredibly painful because you look back on a lifetime of happy cozy Christmases and really can only feel extreme sadness and disbelief that it's even happening at all. This is now my third Christmas without him. It's easier in some ways now I guess. Mostly I try to just not think about it and focus on my family that is with me. His brothers don't really want to talk about him, which I respect. At first I found that really hard, but now I feel like it helps. I really don't want to wallow and ruin their time either. After all, I've allowed too much of my brain time to be spent on him over the past 4 years, and they deserve a mom who's fully present in the moment when I'm with them. They've moved on and so should I.

[Showjumper]

Thank you Leaf for what you wrote. I am still at a stage where all of this feels so unbelievable. But yes, it’s happening. Glad to see the board back up. I have been getting so much out of all I’ve read. Yes, FTD is rare, that’s for sure. And with the BPD, I kept thinking, would someone in their mid 30’s just suddenly develop it? She’s always been just a sweet, sunny person. Volunteered at lot. She’s has though, always been a little too driven in the achievement department. I run a farm, and so growing up she was not catered to, it was more like all hands on deck here. My husband left after a 23 yr marriage (cheated, married the person he cheated with) so both kids went through that.
At this point I’ve thrown up my hands and just told myself it’s ok not to know right now exactly what she has, it’s more about symptoms.

I read over a journal I’ve been keeping since last July and it was eye opening in that what stood out was how much I’ve been either agonizing over this or madly searching for info, or using my whole therapy time to talk about her. And I need to stop. It’s killing me. I need to detach and take care of myself and not pick up the phone when she calls. We always have what I think is a “good” convo, but it always ends with some anger on her part that ruins it. (Or should I say, bursts my bubble that I can have good talks with her and then I tailspin).
So Christmas makes it worse for sure and possibly she’ll call less after, which would be good for both of us.

Leaf no, I don’t think she’d be open to any neuro testing, and she sure is not open to being dx’d with BPD either.  She accepts her C-PTSD dx. My doc is the only one bringing up the FTD dx and so cannot order any tests. DD will not let me contact her docs, so I don’t know what’s going on there, what they have or haven’t done.
At this point I’m resentful that I’ve let it take up so much of my time that I honestly feel like whatever happens, happens. I need to step back.

Funny you mentioned hope. I have a little sculpture of a bird sitting on a rock and it says hope on the rock, like the Emily Dickinson poem. I’ve always loved it, but now I find myself not liking the word.
I feel angry and cynical.

I took heart from what you said, Leaf, about just being there for your other kids and taking their lead in not wanting to talk about your son with BPD. I’m just going to try to have as good a time as I can with my son and his gf at their house.

[holdingontohope]

I am so sorry for all that I have read--so sorry for what we are all going through in our different ways.  When I say I have hope, I guess I mean hope that ONE DAY this will all work itself out, and the truth will be known.  Now, that means on this side of heaven or the other--I am not naive enough to hang everything I have onto the outcome of my son doing what I want him to do.  I realize he may, and he may not--I can pray everyday for the best possible outcome, and try to find my peace regardless of what he does or does not do.  Some days are easier than others, for sure.

[Leaf56]

I'm feeling extra sad and hopeless tonight. I've had vertigo for 5 weeks, and it's just worn me down so much. My son just texted me from his dad's phone asking if I'd gotten the apology email he sent. I replied that yes I had and that I didn't feel much like responding since he'd called me a bitch the last time we spoke. As we always say, if anyone else treated us like these kids do we'd cut them out of our lives in a heartbeat. Sorry, I'm just so sick of this spinning head.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Leaf56]

Hi livednlearned,
It started 5 weeks ago after a very long car ride to visit son number 3 at college. I went to the ER, and they thought it was BPPV and said I should see an ENT. I just did the hearing and balance testing this past week and doc says it's not BPPV because I don't have nystagmus, and he referred me to orthopedic to see if it could be cervicogenic, so I guess that's next. I haven't really been dealing with it long enough to know if stress makes it worse, but I'd imagine it doesn't help  I just hope it stops soon!! Have you been dealing with it long?

[once removed]

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