Did the right thing, I guess?

[LionGame]

Hello, just journalling a bit here for future reference.

My uBPDw has started drinking this summer in every free day she has. Beers or other light stuff, 2-8 pints per day so not that much but anyway.

Week ago was tough situation, my 2yo DD was having a dinner in her seat, W was upset again about something and had drank all day. DD was crying about food or tiredness and W exploded to me that I don't do anything about it, she screamed to DD and screamed to me. I tried to be calm, answer her in calm manner and tried to be physically in between DD and wife. DD dropped spoon on the floor and uBPDw started to hit me with pair of jeans or something multiple times while screaming very loud insults.

My MIL, who still lives with us, went to DD and I said I go outside for the thing to de-escalate, which it luckily did. W was still drinking, came after me pouring insults about me not taking care of the baby. We went back inside eventually.

She grabbed me by my shirt and stared me in the eyes (with that crazy look, pupils very small) she said that she won't let me ever again see the daughter, that this (my) country's system wont help me and she will always win if I started to play some game with her. I didnt reply, was very tired feeling in the moment. I almost grinned because it was so absurd statement. I left for my daughter to another room.

Next day I went to work normally. After few hours I thought had some kind of seizure, right eye had bright lights going and face felt like numbed in that side. My collegue called an ambulance, they took me to hospital for tests which came back normal.

Man in the ambulance asked did I have some stress or anything and I opened up about the situation what happened yesterday, I didnt see a reason to hide it anymore. He took it very seriously, and calmed me down about my W's absurd claims about the system not working for me. He called socialworker to visit me in the hospital and we talked few hours about my wifes behaviour.

They opened up official case about it, and I need to go for to talk to these people about situation in our home after few weeks. Later they will want to talk to my uBPDw, and I think I would need to have some sort of a plan ready when that time comes. She will become unhinged when she finds about it.

Last time when such violent situation occured and I said I will inform the officials about her verbal and physical violence toward me and our daughter, she threaned to kill us both.

I have this physical assault recorded among many others.

I still don't know is it the right way to go, but I cannot live this kind of life even though there would be calm in between these episodes. And this calm I mean that she mocks me and DD about everything and complains about everything in the world.
DD loves her mother when she doesnt have these episodes and when they have normal communication. Even though she speaks to her in very derogatory way most of the time, some times using very bad language.

I just hope I did the right thing, it all feels like one big mess in my mind.  It feels a step towards divorce because she wont admit her bad behaviour to anyone.

-Lion

[livednlearned]

LionGame, I'm glad you're ok. The episode with your eyes sounded scary and even though it isn't something physically serious, the fact your stress is so high that you can feel that way is worrisome. The person who helped you seems very attuned and kind, and it took courage to open up 

she said that she won't let me ever again see the daughter, that this (my) country's system wont help me and she will always win if I started to play some game with her. I didnt reply, was very tired feeling in the moment.

My BPDx said the same thing. Looking back, I think the worse his behavior became, the more he realized I would want to leave. Bullying me about how the legal system would trash me (my ex was an attorney) was a way to keep me in line.

How do you feel about gathering more information about the way things work where you live? Do you feel comfortable consulting an attorney? Gathering information is different than making the choice to divorce, although I know emotionally it can feel hard to separate the two.

[ForeverDad]

She grabbed me by my shirt and stared me in the eyes (with that crazy look, pupils very small) she said that she won't let me ever again see the daughter, that this (my) country's system wont help me and she will always win if I started to play some game with her.

Although it could be her inebriation or intoxicated state, it's very likely she was in what is called a dissociative state.  Afterward she might even deny it, but you know it did happen.

I am some 15 years since I divorced, but I'm convinced my chronic health problems I live with today all stem from my continual stress and coping reactions back then.  Do not discount the impact of long term stress.

When we separated, we both were ordered to have psych evals and report the results.  She never complied so far as I ever knew but mine was that I had anxiety, even though it was only one cursory session.

It is good that you opened up to the professionals.  Your spouse's intent is that her poor behaviors don't get disclosed and documented with the professionals.  Courts usually don't care about vague "he always..." or "she always..." claims and treat them as unverified hearsay, but documented incidents are different.  What you've done for documentation may not get the court's full attention, but it will definitely help.

Also accepted as documentation are the specific details of incidents you relate (dates, locations, what happened, etc) and you're allowed to use your private journals, logs or calendars for reference.  I also had audio recordings of some of my ex's more notable outbursts.  Beware that if she finds out about your records or recordings she will demand you delete them - or con you into doing so - so never discuss them and keep them where she has no physical or electronic access.  You have a right to privacy and confidentiality as you research and determine what you need to do to ensure a better future for yourself and your child.

[LionGame]

LionGame, I'm glad you're ok. The episode with your eyes sounded scary and even though it isn't something physically serious, the fact your stress is so high that you can feel that way is worrisome. The person who helped you seems very attuned and kind, and it took courage to open up 

Thanks livednlearned, I think I am a bit better. There was one week a bit more calm after that incident and now the tension is back up again, cycles are true thing in this disorder. Man in the ambulance was really kind and helpful, he said he could offer peer support in this case because of his past experience.

My BPDx said the same thing. Looking back, I think the worse his behavior became, the more he realized I would want to leave. Bullying me about how the legal system would trash me (my ex was an attorney) was a way to keep me in line.

How do you feel about gathering more information about the way things work where you live? Do you feel comfortable consulting an attorney? Gathering information is different than making the choice to divorce, although I know emotionally it can feel hard to separate the two.

I contacted an attorney in the spring, it was a kind of toll free first time talk, but they said situation was very difficult to solve with just one short meeting. I would need to hire somebody for sure. It is not automatic that woman gets custody here, as I thought earlier.

I think my wife also sense that I am not in to this relationship so much anymore, it more feels overwhelming.

Although it could be her inebriation or intoxicated state, it's very likely she was in what is called a dissociative state.  Afterward she might even deny it, but you know it did happen.

I am some 15 years since I divorced, but I'm convinced my chronic health problems I live with today all stem from my continual stress and coping reactions back then.  Do not discount the impact of long term stress.

When we separated, we both were ordered to have psych evals and report the results.  She never complied so far as I ever knew but mine was that I had anxiety, even though it was only one cursory session.

It is good that you opened up to the professionals.  Your spouse's intent is that her poor behaviors don't get disclosed and documented with the professionals.  Courts usually don't care about vague "he always..." or "she always..." claims and treat them as unverified hearsay, but documented incidents are different.  What you've done for documentation may not get the court's full attention, but it will definitely help.

Also accepted as documentation are the specific details of incidents you relate (dates, locations, what happened, etc) and you're allowed to use your private journals, logs or calendars for reference.  I also had audio recordings of some of my ex's more notable outbursts.  Beware that if she finds out about your records or recordings she will demand you delete them - or con you into doing so - so never discuss them and keep them where she has no physical or electronic access.  You have a right to privacy and confidentiality as you research and determine what you need to do to ensure a better future for yourself and your child.

I think she might have the dissociative episodes, but she downplays them afterwards and usually put the blame on me why they came in the first place. I second to your opinion about health issues. I have had migraines and heart arrythmias during this relationship, I can put them easily under stressrelated symptoms. Sometimes when I even think these episodes I can feel heart start to jump all over the place.

About the documentation, I asked about how courts usually relate to that, it is depending very much of the case. I have recorded the incidents mostly because if law enforcement arrive they might not believe me, especially because my uBPDw is so good at playing totally different person. I do hope they are accepted as evidence in the court room if we need to go all the way there. Sometimes I write them down when I have no way to record. I keep backups of recordigs in remote place where she has no access at all.

Btw, I do like when you say 15 years since divorce, just makes me feel good. I hope I could say the same in my mid-50's

-Lion

[LionGame]

Just a small update, CPS contacted my uBPDw today and as I thought, she went on total defence mode. They scheduled her appointment next month, she really need to be there. She was complaining just about everything that could have been the reason why she act like she acts. Lack of my family's support, bad hospitals that don't take care of her (she refused all the help offered btw). She's so much afraid that they will judge her as bad parent.  There start to be cracks in the perfect appearances of our family. She threatend me all evening with all kinds of consequences, and declared that I am dead person to her from now on. I think her personality more leans to NPD because of her obsession of perfect, spotless public image. She and her mother are now completely against me, very  exhausting time to be under the same roof. My next appointment with T is still way over a month away. I wish that she would follow throught with her divorce talks.
-Lion

[ForeverDad]

Just a small update, CPS contacted my uBPDw today and as I thought, she went on total defence mode... She threatened me all evening with all kinds of consequences, and declared that I am dead person to her from now on.

This is not surprising.  This sounds like an extinction burst where she will do anything and everything to get you to retreat back to prior appeasing behavior.  The problem with that is that she will demand you defend her or retract what was reported.  Don't.  That would just delay getting your life and parenting on a better path.

I wish that she would follow through with her divorce talks.

You do know that either spouse can initiate a divorce case, right?  However, it doesn't matter whichever spouse files for divorce first, you need to be proactive for yourself and your children, have local legal advice and be prepared for your spouse to do literally anything, with you as the target.

[LionGame]

This is not surprising.  This sounds like an extinction burst where she will do anything and everything to get you to retreat back to prior appeasing behavior.  The problem with that is that she will demand you defend her or retract what was reported.  Don't.  That would just delay getting your life and parenting on a better path.

You do know that either spouse can initiate a divorce case, right?  However, it doesn't matter whichever spouse files for divorce first, you need to be proactive for yourself and your children, have local legal advice and be prepared for your spouse to do literally anything, with you as the target.

You knew that, actually that is exactly what she said yesterday. Like, I should've said that things already calmed down and there's no need to contact her. Anyway, and fortunately also, it's not in my hands anymore. When the process is started it's ran by officials and they will investigate what kind of procedures they will apply. Child and her safety comes first, so they said.

I'm well aware that I could initiate the divorce. There has been calm already for sometime and I just tried to relax and rest in the mean time to gain some power. Need to contact legal advice next week and ask for advice how to proceed.

[Augustine]

Regarding your symptoms, it’s most likely the second/third phases of a stress-induced migraine. Ocular migraines also present with similar symptoms. 

[LionGame]

Regarding your symptoms, it’s most likely the second/third phases of a stress-induced migraine. Ocular migraines also present with similar symptoms. 

During this time we´ve been together I started having these ocular migraines but they were somewhat different from what happened last month, that's what's got be scared and to get medical help. They just probably changing in nature when this load of stress increases.

Just got open letter from my MIL, who lives with us. Really pushing this time, feel more  then ever. I felt I needed to share it here, it's translated anyway so:

I thought for a long time about what to tell you, because I was shocked by this situation.Why did you do this to ----? Apparently you thought more about yourself and not about her feelings.You have to start with yourself. A year ago I wrote to you that we need to talk to each other every day, every evening. I see that you and ---- don’t communicate at all. On the phone all the time. Your relationship is more like neighbors than husband and wife. I have never seen you feel sorry for her, or console her, or hug her.Really, in 6 years you haven’t gotten to know ----, what kind of person she is!The best mother, she loves ---- more than life itself! How can you not understand this? And the fact that she had a breakdown before is the reason for this. Try not to sleep for at least a few nights and I'll look at you...What you told the doctor has far-reaching consequences. And you continue to be silent. The wife must be protected, not blamed.How she behaves depends on how you treat her. She should feel your love and respect.I don't mean cleaning the house and washing the dishes. Your attitude towards ---- does not depend on this.I don't know what you should do to stop social services from harassing ----.---- began to sleep more, and ---- became noticeably calmer.Why did you start all this mess?

uBPDw doesn't speak to me anyway anymore, we had somewhat normal-ish communication but because of her behaviour it broke down, can I say I would be interrested in heart-to-heart discussion after all this? Just venting..

-Lion

[LionGame]

Updating a bit

Today came letters from the CPS. There was conclusion that they dont take action for now. But they put all the discussion in the document what I said in the interview. There was information about past incidents and violent acts including this current one. Needless to say, we had a fight, and I left the house before she read the letter through. I think she did read it because she hasnt contacted me at all, full radio silence. Probably she had a huge hit in her ego. I am in safe place now, need to apply for divorce this weekend. I dont know should try to make contact to her or just inform about the divorce? She is very angry, that much I can tell.


I'm messed a bit, thinking and missing my DD. She will be ok with MIL I think. I made myself a primary target for uBPDw so she wont be taking hits.

- Lion

[kells76]

Hi LionGame, welcome back -- thanks for the update on how things are going.

Today came letters from the CPS. There was conclusion that they dont take action for now. But they put all the discussion in the document what I said in the interview. There was information about past incidents and violent acts including this current one. Needless to say, we had a fight, and I left the house before she read the letter through.

Was the fight you had about the letters, even though she hadn't read it yet? Or about something else?

I think she did read it because she hasnt contacted me at all, full radio silence. Probably she had a huge hit in her ego. I am in safe place now, need to apply for divorce this weekend. I dont know should try to make contact to her or just inform about the divorce? She is very angry, that much I can tell.

Sounds like you're weighing options -- one is to file for divorce first and inform her later. The other is... to tell her beforehand? Did I get that right?

Given that you have a 2 year old daughter, maybe we can think through together which option would be best with regards to your child, or if there are other options that haven't been thought of yet. It also sounds like while your MIL may generally be safe for your D2 to spend time with, she is fully on the side of your wife, which isn't surprising. That is important to keep in mind.

Can you remind me if you've talked with a lawyer or solicitor yet? In many areas you can get a free or low-cost initial consultation. I would recommend looking into that before making any decisions about if/how to announce a divorce to your W. There is strategy involved that is often unintuitive.

Really glad you reached out and posted here.

[ForeverDad]

You know your spouse better than us, though on the other hand we've worked with numerous members and brainstormed all sorts of cautions, reactions and overreactions.  It ranges from surprisingly mild to the extremes of raging and calling the police to put you in jail for at least the weekend if not forever.

Most members want to try the less triggering way first.  As kells76 wrote, best to have a few lawyer/solicitor consultations first.  Not only can you get an overview of where you as a father stand when entering the legal court arena, you may also be able to determine which lawyer fits you best.  Do you have William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder handbook?  It's essential yet inexpensive but be forewarned it might be best to have a relative or trusted friend to order it.  If your stbEx learns of it from perusing your accounts/bills or it arrives at your door and she grabs it first, oh my.

Now that she knows you can go to the next level - contacting children's services - it may become a race to file.  Or she may try to make you look worse than her.

Her seeing the response letter can't be undone.  If you're going to do something, step up the pace.  First step, get legal consultations, privately & confidentially.

Perhaps you can discuss your concerns with her, that may calm things.  Or not.  Remember you have a right to privacy and confidentiality, she cannot demand to know what your plans or thoughts pondered are.  The inquisitions are long in the past, though my then-spouse way back then didn't think so.

[LionGame]

[

Hi LionGame, welcome back -- thanks for the update on how things are going.

Was the fight you had about the letters, even though she hadn't read it yet? Or about something else?

Sounds like you're weighing options -- one is to file for divorce first and inform her later. The other is... to tell her beforehand? Did I get that right?

Given that you have a 2 year old daughter, maybe we can think through together which option would be best with regards to your child, or if there are other options that haven't been thought of yet. It also sounds like while your MIL may generally be safe for your D2 to spend time with, she is fully on the side of your wife, which isn't surprising. That is important to keep in mind.

Can you remind me if you've talked with a lawyer or solicitor yet? In many areas you can get a free or low-cost initial consultation. I would recommend looking into that before making any decisions about if/how to announce a divorce to your W. There is strategy involved that is often unintuitive.

Really glad you reached out and posted here.

Thank you kells76, it already helps that I can write out these things. Yes, I was thinking how to tell her about the divorce, should I just say that I applied and waiting her to move away from the house. I cannot see that we could be living together anymore. I believe she couldn't take the fact that it was written in an official document how she was/is behaving. I talked to one lawyer and she said it is pretty straight forward process with the divorce, albeit things with D2 will be hard to agree. I think my wife also applies, she said yesterday that she wants me out of her life permanently.That means probably her view with the D2 is the same, I shouldn't be able to see her which is nonsense.

[LionGame]

You know your spouse better than us, though on the other hand we've worked with numerous members and brainstormed all sorts of cautions, reactions and overreactions.  It ranges from surprisingly mild to the extremes of raging and calling the police to put you in jail for at least the weekend if not forever.

Most members want to try the less triggering way first.  As kells76 wrote, best to have a few lawyer/solicitor consultations first.  Not only can you get an overview of where you as a father stand when entering the legal court arena, you may also be able to determine which lawyer fits you best.  Do you have William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder handbook?  It's essential yet inexpensive but be forewarned it might be best to have a relative or trusted friend to order it.  If your stbEx learns of it from perusing your accounts/bills or it arrives at your door and she grabs it first, oh my.

Now that she knows you can go to the next level - contacting children's services - it may become a race to file.  Or she may try to make you look worse than her.

Her seeing the response letter can't be undone.  If you're going to do something, step up the pace.  First step, get legal consultations, privately & confidentially.

Perhaps you can discuss your concerns with her, that may calm things.  Or not.  Remember you have a right to privacy and confidentiality, she cannot demand to know what your plans or thoughts pondered are.  The inquisitions are long in the past, though my then-spouse way back then didn't think so.

Yeah, I think my W surely will want to make me look bad as a person and a father. She said she already has a lawyer, she has threatened me with that a long time now. One month ago she openly said that she will make my life a hell, when this case with the CPS came up and I am sure she's going to pull every trick she has.

i need to check that book, thanks for the tip.

You are right about stepping up the pace, that's why I would like to initiate the divorce this weekend, she is probably figuring her plans already too. We never had such communication breakdown, she usually has reached me if I am away even 3-4 hours. That means she doesn't care my whereabouts anymore.

[SaltyDawg]

LionGame,

Two resources that you may want to read (if you haven't already done so), I've read both, there is some overlap.  The first one concentrates on the alienating issue, the 2nd one is a more general guide on divorce.

"Don't Alienate the Kids! Raising Resilient Children While Avoiding High Conflict Divorce"
By Bill Eddy · 2010

"Splitting - Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline Or Narcissistic Personality Disorder"  By Bill Eddy, Randi Kreger, William A. Eddy · 2021

Get the books, best money you can spend on your defence now.  You can see the 'quick start guide' at https://www.google.com/books/edition/Splitting/WxQxEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PT8&printsec=frontcover along with several other pages to get you started... while you are waiting for your copies.

Take care with self-care.

SD