Parentification and 9yr old emotional caretaker / facial expression

[Tangled mangled]

This community has helped me a lot. I have learned a lot from the experience of others and the advice received from members.

So I’m separated from ex husband and awaiting finalising my divorce. I have interim court order preventing my ex from having contact with my children. But the children have video calls over the weekends -when they want to.
Over the weekend my ex had a few minutes chat with the boys and s9 was accused of being angry with dad:

Dad : I know you you are angry with me because I can’t see you over the holiday
Son: ( probably distracted from wanting to end the conversation and carry on playing video games on tablet) I’m not angry dad .

Dad: you are angry with me, there’s nothing I can do, your mum has prevented me from seeing you, I have sent her so many emails and she’s not responding.

Son : I’m not angry dad, I’m sad that the holiday is almost over and I can’t visit you.

The call progresses for less than 10 minutes more as s9 is more interested in spending his extra screen time on games. They discuss sporting activities/club son did over the weekend

This morning, I tried to have a chat about the conversation he had with dad. My goal was to dispel any confusion.

I’m surprised at how mature s9 is emotionally, he understood that he was falsely accused of being angry.

But I’m also worried this a sign he is being parentified and becoming a caretaker.
I asked him how he felt when dad said he was angry at him (there was no proof of son being angry, except he might have had a serious facial expression or disinterested look of a 9 year old)
Son said, he was not angry at dad, why will I be angry at him? I’m just sad I can’t see him over the holidays that’s all. Son continued that he thinks dad wants him(s9)  to feel sorry for him(dad) that’s why he thinks he’s angry.

I’m just baffled that a 9 yr old can read through and identify the emotional manipulation.
I continued the conversation with my son reminding him that he can talk about anything he finds confusing or worrying in his interactions  with dad. I avoided talking about his dad but focused on s9 and what he took away from the contact with dad.


Parentification:
I was parentified by my parents and was told I was always moody. My facial expressions had to be perfectly smiley to appease both parents while I was being scapegoated.

Questions
Apart from providing validation, is there anything else I can do?
At what point do children get educated about a parent’s mental health? I know I could have used this education on cluster B in my teens.

[Turkish]

I think that you did a great job validating your son, and yes he is smart beyond his years, good emotional EQ.

Parentification is more task-based, taking care of adult things: like my ex being cast into the role to be proxy mom to her younger siblings, or me being relied upon as a little kid to wake my mom for night shift (and often being yelled at despite she ignoring her alarm, or being blamed at 11 for falling asleep and not keeping her awake driving at night so we ran off the road and hit an oak tree.

Emotional caretaking is this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

My ex struggled at lot when she left. She told me a story where she got very upset with the kids and feeling shame, she cried in the bathroom. Then S4 knocked on the door and said, "mommy, I'm sorry that we made you upset." I did a *facepalm* but didn't tear into her like I wanted to because at least she showed self-awareness and trusted me enough to tell me.

A year or so later, she admitted to me that she could only spend so much time at her parents' house because her mother emotionally dumped on her as her mom did her whole childhood. Mid 30s and she enacted boundaries. Though I didn't like her, I was proud of her.

Keep doing what you are doing. It's a fine line not to engage in parental alienation, but I think that you've handled it well.

[Notwendy]

I think the line between parentification and emotional caretaker could be a bit blurry and go together. In my situation, doing tasks for BPD mother meets an emotional need for her as well. She also would blame me and also confide in me.

I think you are wise to recognize this. I think it's unavoidable because of the dynamics and the pwBPD having "victim" perspective and projection. Since this is a parent, and there is contact with your ex, which includes these dynamics- doing your part- to not interact with your kids like this and to also validate their feelings ( without triangulating as Turkish said) is the best you can do.

In my situation, this was reinforced. Our family was focused on my BPD mother's moods and feelings. Mental health was not discussed - not much was known about BPD at the beginning of my parent's marriage. By high school, I wondered what was going on with my mother but didn't know what that was.  

I had a similar observation as you have with my own kids at about their early teens where BPD mother was beginning to interact with them as her emotional caretakers and I began to limit their contact with her.  I also had the mental health - what is BPD discussion at that time with them. I don't think it's possible to do this with a parent though- they will have contact with your ex and you would risk triangulation. It may be best to have a counselor or therapist discuss this with them. It's likely that by adolescence, your kids will have wondered- and mental illness is more openly discussed now.

[livednlearned]

Apart from providing validation, is there anything else I can do?

I found it helpful to read about covert narcissistic family systems, which I grew up in. It helped me figure out what was not normal and I tried to develop healthy parenting behaviors.

Bill Eddy has a book about Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids that had a profound effect on me. I can't remember if I shared it in your other threads ...? It helped me think about my own behaviors in terms of flexible thinking, managed emotions and moderate behaviors. I was wound so tight and worried/anxious that I wasn't very emotionally present for my son. I started to put more effort into being relaxed and having fun. I started to do a much better job at asking validating questions and using declarative language, and that helped strengthen our emotional bond because he learned he could trust me to take the time to not only validate him but to understand him.

At what point do children get educated about a parent’s mental health? I know I could have used this education on cluster B in my teens.

With my son, I told him his dad drank alcohol that made him mean. I can't overstate how much this helped my son put things in perspective. However, I didn't mention mental health issues until n/BPDx crossed a line and all I said to my son was that some adults have things in their brains and hearts that need treatment and medicine, and maybe that was happening with his dad. But if it was, he was an adult and had to figure it out on his own.

On my part I stopped not only being codependent but also cutting down codependent thinking. I modeled an expectation that people are responsible for themselves, and if they do mean/bad things, that's not for me to fix. My job is to keep myself safe and keep my son safe.

[Tangled mangled]

I think that you did a great job validating your son, and yes he is smart beyond his years, good emotional EQ.

Parentification is more task-based, taking care of adult things: like my ex being cast into the role to be proxy mom to her younger siblings, or me being relied upon as a little kid to wake my mom for night shift (and often being yelled at despite she ignoring her alarm, or being blamed at 11 for falling asleep and not keeping her awake driving at night so we ran off the road and hit an oak tree.

Emotional caretaking is this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

My ex struggled at lot when she left. She told me a story where she got very upset with the kids and feeling shame, she cried in the bathroom. Then S4 knocked on the door and said, "mommy, I'm sorry that we made you upset." I did a *facepalm* but didn't tear into her like I wanted to because at least she showed self-awareness and trusted me enough to tell me.

A year or so later, she admitted to me that she could only spend so much time at her parents' house because her mother emotionally dumped on her as her mom did her whole childhood. Mid 30s and she enacted boundaries. Though I didn't like her, I was proud of her.

Keep doing what you are doing. It's a fine line not to engage in parental alienation, but I think that you've handled it well.

Turkish , you make a good point about the difference between emotional care taking and parentification. I was under the assumption that it’s all parentification whenever the roles are being reversed between a child and a parent. So in my sons case his dad was doing the emotional dumping and and expecting a 9 year old to comfort him.

The most painful aspects of my childhood trauma lie in being used by my mother as a therapist from the age of 8 and being harshly criticised for not being a good babysitter / proxy parent, to my younger siblings. I felt very helpless and today I still feel wound of being robbed of my childhood- I m a very serious parent most of the time and find it difficult to enjoy being a parent my own children.

 The helplessness sometimes floats to the surface when I’m stressed out. I can relate to your ex’s struggle. Another negative impact of being parentified is that I didn’t get a chance to develop healthy bonds with my siblings because I was their resentful mini parent to them.

What you described about your experience was horrible. I can imagine how lonely it must have felt to be blamed for causing an accident. My ex did something similar with my children but didn’t require them to keep him awake, he used s9 as emotional support- sitting in the front seat on a cross country journey ( over 300miles) . Now for some children that may not sound as a problem but s9 can get overwhelmed very easily and sitting next to dad wouldn’t have been fun. S9 had a massive melt down in school after that trip.

Thank you the response

[Tangled mangled]

I think the line between parentification and emotional caretaker could be a bit blurry and go together. In my situation, doing tasks for BPD mother meets an emotional need for her as well. She also would blame me and also confide in me.
.

Notwendy
Our families are so similar.

In my foo  both parents are disordered- dad is more of the covert/ malignant narc and mum a covert high functioning bpd. I grew up in a war zone- they use to argue and fight atleast once a week. I was mum’s therapist and forced to take sides and when she split dad white- usually when he had enough money in the bank, I had to be split black and she would not say or do  anything when my brothers would attack me physically. I was the rude one if I fought back because I was supposed to be the quiet scapegoat.

This all explains why Im on high alert for similar kind of treatment of my sons by their ubpd dad.


I will raise this matter with his therapist and schools pastoral team. Atleast for now I have created distance from their dad and will continue to limit contact with the children. On their own they refuse to join video calls with him. I won’t encourage them to call him when they refuse.
Thank you

[Tangled mangled]

LnL,
Thank you for the book recommendation . I will check it out.
I’m with you on the anxiety around parenting. That’s a constant struggle for me at the moment. As a single parent, I find myself torn in several ways trying to make ends meet, while shielding them from the negative impact of their disordered parent. It takes a toll on me sometimes and learning to let go of what I think it should be and celebrate little wins.

Eg yesterday my s5 had a full blown meltdown in store while doing grocery shopping over a Lego set. He is use to being spoilt with toys as dad can never say NO. I’m the mean mum that’s not ashamed to put her foot down in public.
In the past I would have raised my voice or atleast not handled it sensibly. This time I gave him the option of returning the toy back to the shelf, of course he refused , so I handed it to the lady at the till as a return. He decided he won’t come home with me unless I get the toy. I gave him a hug and walked away to the front door. He changed his mind really quickly.

I’m still struggling with my codependence especially with parenting. My children walk all over my boundaries and I find myself doing everything for them. It’s going to take a while for me to overcome this but I’m focused on making tiny gains like ensuring that my children are respectful to each other and to me  and that they can follow rules and know that No means No.

Thanks again LnL