great book-and also a question for parent(s)

[LotusS]

Hello dear parents of BPDchildren,
first a great book - although I am sure many of you have read it ir are reading it
« Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder-A family for Healing and Change » by Valerie Porr, M.A.
Next, my (albeit akward) question to you: my DD20 is back at home. It’s not going too badly so far. Of course, rollercoaster of emotions. I’m trying not to sink with the lows. You know how hard it is.
Anyway, she has a new therapist she really likes-she told me that she does DBT (she used that as one of the « filters » to select her) and working first on her PTSD with her. Fine.
Because I am trying to learn about BPD I am seeing that she probably is not doing enough therapy-for sure- to change deepset habits and thinking… and so : How do I word this to her? How can I congratulate  her on all her efforts and also encourage her to do more in depth, so that she can confidently set up goals for her life?
 It is a minefield-as you know!
Thanks for reading

Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide for Healing and Change Author: Valerie Porr, MA Publisher: Oxford University Press, USA; 1 edition (August 12, 2010) Paperback: 424 pages ISBN-10: 0195379586 ISBN-13: 978-0195379587

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi LotusS
Thanks for passing on the information about the book. Re your question:

I think it would be taking quite a risk to try in some way to get dd to take on more therapy. At the moment there seems to be some stability and some progress and there is a therapist who does DBT involved and relates well to your daughter. I'm sure it's now all smooth sailing though!

DD is 20 and to be at this point at 20 is pretty good. The reasons why I think it's risky are:

BPD folk can only move at their own pace and are very likely to chuck everything if they feel an added pressure
BPD people like to feel what is happening is within their control: from what you said dd used filters to select this therapist and that's working well
At age 20 there can be a big resentment at parental suggestions, and this could override the congratulations to a point where she only feels that you are criticising her.

BPD parents are constantly faced with seeing the consequences of our children's wrong choices when they still go ahead and make them. We can also see how things could be better if only . . .

I of course am only talking from my own experience and your relationship and journey with your dd will be very different from mine.

I just immediately felt that there was a possibility that what you had achieved so far could be put at risk - it would do so in my situation.

If you decide to go ahead and find the best way I would be interested to know how it works out. It might change my way of thinking on this.

[LotusS]

Thank you Sancho! Really
I think it is wisdom. I also know that is what my husband-her dad-says too.
You are right of course. I can’t seem to find the right « opening » so it is best to wait.
 In the book, the author does give some tips about how to engage in a conversation with our bpd  kid-it is basically starting with asking questions (instead of telling what we think they should do) like: « what is your goal? or « what do you really want/don’t want? » and how is your behavior now get you to that goal? »  I hope it helps a parent here .
So DD answered my question just today before i saw your post! she was coming back from an AA mtg.. and I always wait up for her (yes, i know ;) and ask her to come in and talk a bit -which she does and did-so i asked how her mtg was -and this is really because she has been saying to me how she does not really like AA or feels like she completely belongs -plus the religion part does not fit-anyway-she says that it was actually good and she liked the shares..so i wanted to bring up the info i had sent her last week about alternatives to AA- (namely « women for sobriety » ) and as usual she refuses to talk abt that and confirms «  I know what’s right for me «  and left the room to make clear that is not a conversation we ll have.
But, she comes back in to show me the beautiful sweater she bought today. So what do I have? I have communication, and the challenge to « trust »!
Just like 2 weeks ago she came back in the room after an exchange where I voiced my disappointment in her actions on my bday-and she apologized ! Also  she was getting upset at my asking that she sleep at home each night because of the past (and how it is trauma for me and safer for her) -and she left 5 min. to calm down then came back and said sorry-« yes I understand why and it s okay. »
So yes, Sancho, you are right. Thank you so much for your advice.
And what is the take away?
Work on staying there-in their life-showing love when possible . Forgive, open doors for them when you can. Stay still when you cannot. Stay still.

[Sancho]

Thanks for the response LotusS. I am so pleased to hear the examples of the communication you are having with dd - it's really great to read this! (have you read Only Human's post?)

I am going to copy your 'Take away' and put it somewhere as a reminder - really good, thanks!

[Pook075]

I would echo that concern- it's impossible to know how much or how little therapy will benefit your child.  We could guess, maybe more is better, but maybe more stresses her out and she quits going completely.  That's not a gamble worth taking.

With BPD, this is not a scenario where someone is "cured"...their problems will always be there.  It's the ability to deal with those problems in a healthy way to overcome them that's the key takeaway.  There's no way to rush that and it will take as long as it takes. 

For my BPD daughter, it was about 14 months of DBT once a week, in hourly sessions...so around 60-70 hours total.  But my kid's success was because she was putting in the work and actually trying so hard to improve.  Again, it can't be forced and it is definitely a process.  I hope that helps!

[InTheWilderness]

LotusS, first I want to say that it seems very encouraging to me that your daughter is going to therapy and that she’s found a therapist she feels she can work with. And AA too, even if it’s not a great fit. I’m always amazed when I read posts about young adult pwBPD who is open to seeking treatment. My 20 yr old son refuses it all.

What Sancho said about the importance of the perception of independence rings very true with my son too. If he feels that my husband and I are in any way threatening his independence, he will pull away. Our suggestions will also be resented unless he is coming to us for help. In some areas of his life I will very gently suggest, and he won’t be offended, but in others, I have to back entirely off or risk a fracture in the relationship. Eggshells are everywhere!

It’s difficult because we parents are required to be patient and  keep our anxieties in check, while they live their life with all the painful consequences. Sometimes I think we are back to the terrible twos and threes, where, “no” and “I can do it”, reign supreme.

Thanks for sharing a few examples of how your daughter has done things right. It is a good reminder for me to acknowledge the positives in my son’s recent behavior too, even the small ones.

[Methuen]

Anyway, she has a new therapist she really likes-she told me that she does DBT (she used that as one of the « filters » to select her) and working first on her PTSD with her. Fine.
Because I am trying to learn about BPD I am seeing that she probably is not doing enough therapy-for sure- to change deepset habits and thinking… and so : How do I word this to her? How can I congratulate  her on all her efforts and also encourage her to do more in depth, so that she can confidently set up goals for her life?

I’m usually on the PSI board because I have an 87 year old mom with UBPD, but I’ve spent a career working with young people and teenagers.

Right now your daughter is seeing a T she likes, doing DBT, and communicating with you.  That is a LOT to celebrate.  

Something is working.

I would just keep supporting your dd, and stay focused on the positives and the current successes, and resist the urge to want her to do more to get better, faster. Personally I don’t know if there is a way to word it to bring up the topic, without risk.  

Be patient.  She needs to do this on her schedule.  If she gets a feeling that she’s not measuring up to your hopes or expectations, there could be a set back. If pwBPD feel stress or pressure, it can trigger behaviors. Just keep supporting her and keep it positive so she continues to feel safe and supported in your home. It sounds like she’s making progress.

As parents we love our kids so much we desperately want the best for them, and we would lay down our own lives to save theirs.  But we have to also let them find their wings in their own time.  That is another way I believe we can show love.

[LotusS]

Thank you very very mych for your responses.
It is amazing  to see and confirm how we are dealing with the same behaviors from our kids  and the same monumental challenges and heartbreaks.
I really needed your experiences and words if wisdom.
And I hope you are all doing okay too.

[kells76]

Hi LotusS;

Just checking in to see how this last week went for you and your D20. Hope you are getting into a good routine and finding some peaceful times.

-kells76

[LotusS]

Hi Kells76
thanks for checking up in me!
This week was horrid. I kept thinking about other parents and sending kind thoughts to you all through tears.
We had typical  BPD exchanges-me and DD20- (my husband keeps it very « light » with her always- so he dies not have any of those).
She was roofied at a party and ended up at hospital-and slept over at the friend who helped her and took her to hospital after they left the ER -(she still refuses to have her phone location  « on » so we didn ‘t know that happened till the next day when she came home (she told us in details) -heartbreaking-not her fault -if all true. She recovered  fine.

She seems to have formed yet another « attachment » with friend. And I see the patterns..

I can’t sleep and very emotional  myself. and soooo tired. but can’t sleep when i think about what i want to tell her/ask her.. and how it always goes wrong and back to typical BPD exchanges.
Sooo I m going to try with SET (support/empathy/truth) when I talk to her…

How are you doing?

[kells76]

Good to hear from you again, even though it was a difficult week 

This week was horrid. I kept thinking about other parents and sending kind thoughts to you all through tears.
We had typical  BPD exchanges-me and DD20- (my husband keeps it very « light » with her always- so he dies not have any of those).

It's hard when you have some good days or weeks, and are hopeful that things could be turning a corner, and then it goes back to conflict and disorder.

She was roofied at a party and ended up at hospital-and slept over at the friend who helped her and took her to hospital after they left the ER -(she still refuses to have her phone location  « on » so we didn ‘t know that happened till the next day when she came home (she told us in details) -heartbreaking-not her fault -if all true. She recovered  fine.

There's no easy way to deal with that situation, and I get what you're saying when you say "if at all true". If it is, of course you would never have wanted your D to go through that, and if it isn't, there's no good way to raise that issue.

Do you know much about the friend who helped her?

I can’t sleep and very emotional  myself. and soooo tired. but can’t sleep when i think about what i want to tell her/ask her.. and how it always goes wrong and back to typical BPD exchanges.
Sooo I m going to try with SET (support/empathy/truth) when I talk to her…

In an ideal world, what would you want her to know (assuming that it got through to her)?

How does she respond to SET statements, usually -- or is it unpredictable?

How are you doing?

Thanks for asking 

While the pwBPD in my life is my H's kids' mom (though undiagnosed, she is married to someone with many uNPD traits), the kids have many challenges because of the long term conflict between the families. SD17 had more challenges when she was younger, and is doing as okay as she can right now (in school, has a job, generally cooperative with spending time us according to the parenting plan).

SD15 used to have fewer challenges, but now is actively avoiding spending time with us. Unfortunately the kids' mom does not support following the PP, so H and I are at a turning point of trying to figure out how to maintain that relationship without pushing SD15 further away. While I don't think she has BPD, there are other factors at play making it very hard for her to hear anything besides "Mom good / Dad bad". She avoids any kind of emotions-related conversation with us, does lie about things, and says that "the only time that was available" for many activities is only during her time with us.

I don't know if we'll be able to make it to her being 18 while still having her follow the PP, as there is no support from Mom. It is hard to know if having a "soft touch" and just not fighting it is better in the long run or not. She is in a lot of pain and I wish she were open to knowing that family therapy could help make things "less bad". Mom has decision making about therapy, and in our state teens that age basically have 100% control over MH treatment as well.

Guess that's a bit of a novel -- thank you for listening.

...

Can you remind me what your D20 does during her day? Therapy -- how frequently during the week? Is she doing any kind of college classes or job?

And do you have things that get you out of the house, too, or get you time alone at home? Can you remind me if you're seeing a counselor/therapist right now?

It's good that she feels like she can live with you while she gets treatment. I just wonder if there are ways to minimize the opportunities for the "BPD interactions" between you two -- maybe if you're busy with other interests/obligations, it would mean fewer, but more neutral/positive interactions between you two?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[LotusS]

Hello Kells,
thank you for reading and reply .
I am not sure what PP refers to in your post(sorry -not great with acronyms in general:)
 It’s great to read that at least  your SD17 is doing better now. Your SD15 might be very challenging for a few more years(!) But you have been down this road before-and even though the mom’s element certainly complicates things for you -and I’m sure a big stressor for you and H- the best predictor of possibility to overcome bod is still-to the researchers’ surprise I read- one supportive person in their close circle/family.
So we don’t have to react to everything they say or do. And this way we can also avoid lots if triggers . If which there are sooo many
As for me, I do work full time- so I am busy during the day. DD20 is doing therapy ince a week, going to Punk music shows, catching up with some friends, lioking for a job (perpetual), and has goals of eventually getting a driver’s license. As you know-for pwbpd, and many youths,goals can just remain that -goals -if no actual steps are taken towards  their realization. My daughter knows  this. 
She is also in pain (mentally and sometimes physically) from bpd, and ptsd. So what good would it be to put that extra pressure - that will most certainly be felt like judgement,misunderstanding,, lack of acceptance, rejection, abandonment, etc.. by her- if I mention school,work, etc. to her?
It did not turn out great when I did! She wants more than anything to be independent and not be a burden in me and dad or anyone.

[LotusS]

Kells, my reply post got cut short somehow (?!)
I wanted to add I am doing a bit better this week.
I am not in therapy. I have been a buddhist for 25 years but my faith has been very very shaken this year-by daughter’s situation and loss of my mom. Lots of grief.
So I’m trying to figure out what’s working /will work for me.
I am deciding to trust as much as I can. To trust that my daughter will find her way through this terrible illness and ptsd. To see her incredible strength, and to try to downplay the ugliness -to survive.
She’s home now, she’s « sage », she is sober, she is trying, doing the best she can-I have to work in not judging and comparing -(I am a high school teacher so it’s hard-I ‘m constantly facing the mental problems of our youth- and also ny DD20 was with me at my HS (and dropped out 3 months before her graduation
Anyway, courage Kells, hope, which is stronger than everything.