Heading into Divorce with undiagnosed BPD

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I discovered BPD a few days ago and it has been a GODSEND to help me understand my soon-to-be ex wife.

We have been married less than two years and are currently in a divorce process. I was the classic no-boundary partner that thought I could just keep giving and loving to solve her issues of anger, rage, jealousy, etc. even though I knew they were irrational and misguided.
Of course, things kept getting worse, and the more I gave, the more I was blamed.

Now we are getting divorced, and she is on the warpath of accusations and lies. I paid for EVERYTHING in her life for two years, using money I made BEFORE we were married, and now she is accusing me of financial abuse, misappropriation of marital funds, and wanting what is "legally hers."

We have a beautiful community of shared friends, but what adds difficulty to the situation is that nobody saw this side of her but me. It was like living with an abusive alcoholic who didn't drink in public.

There's obviously a lot of healing, understanding, unpacking, (self)forgiving, etc. for me to do, but first and foremost, I need to handle this divorce process properly.

We haven't spoken in about a month, and I found out from a mutual friend(who was the one
 who told me about BPD) just two days ago that she had filed for divorce, because I "refused mediation." (The last email I sent her was me asking her for mediation).

She is not diagnosed with BPD, but whether she "has it" or not, everything I'm reading matches up exactly with my experience.

All divorces are sad/challegning, but this one has added delicateness and complexity, because she can be very accusatory of mistreatement, no matter how false it is.

Any advice on how to proceed with the divorce/mediation process, or anything else, would be greatly appreciated.

Very grateful for these resources, thank you.

[Gr8fulDad]

I discovered BPD a few days ago and it has been a GODSEND to help me understand my soon-to-be ex wife.

We have been married less than two years and are currently in a divorce process. I was the classic no-boundary partner that thought I could just keep giving and loving to solve her issues of anger, rage, jealousy, etc. even though I knew they were irrational and misguided.
Of course, things kept getting worse, and the more I gave, the more I was blamed.

Now we are getting divorced, and she is on the warpath of accusations and lies. I paid for EVERYTHING in her life for two years, using money I made BEFORE we were married, and now she is accusing me of financial abuse, misappropriation of marital funds, and wanting what is "legally hers."

We have a beautiful community of shared friends, but what adds difficulty to the situation is that nobody saw this side of her but me. It was like living with an abusive alcoholic who didn't drink in public.

There's obviously a lot of healing, understanding, unpacking, (self)forgiving, etc. for me to do, but first and foremost, I need to handle this divorce process properly.

We haven't spoken in about a month, and I found out from a mutual friend(who was the one
 who told me about BPD) just two days ago that she had filed for divorce, because I "refused mediation." (The last email I sent her was me asking her for mediation).

She is not diagnosed with BPD, but whether she "has it" or not, everything I'm reading matches up exactly with my experience.

All divorces are sad/challegning, but this one has added delicateness and complexity, because she can be very accusatory of mistreatement, no matter how false it is.

Any advice on how to proceed with the divorce/mediation process, or anything else, would be greatly appreciated.

Very grateful for these resources, thank you.

[SaltyDawg]

Gr8tfulDad,

Welcome to the forums.  There are plenty of threads that discuss this, just look around, and there is a wealth of information.  It won't be easy, and will require a bit of work, but only you can look after your own wellbeing.

There is a really good book on this topic.

"Splitting - Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline Or Narcissistic Personality Disorder"  By Bill Eddy, Randi Kreger, William A. Eddy · 2021

Get the books, best $$$'s you can spend on your defence now.  You can see the 'quick start guide' at https://www.google.com/books/edition/Splitting/WxQxEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PT8&printsec=frontcover

Ask questions.

Since this is stressful, be sure to take care with self-care.

[ForeverDad]

I cannot agree more with SaltyDawg that the SPLITTING book, though inexpensive, is just about the very best guide on how to survive a conflict-fueled divorce.  Whether she is diagnosed with BPD or not, the behavior patterns are there for you to see and act accordingly.

SPLITTING is essential to also properly interview prospective lawyers.  Not just any lawyer will do, you need more than forms filing and hand holding.  As Splitting notes, you need an experienced and proactive lawyer with practical strategies.  (I did not say "overly aggressive".)  Interview a few lawyers, ponder their legal opinions and which strategies they recommend, often their consultations are relatively inexpensive, though their retainers when hired are not.

Courts typically view all divorces as mere bickering and heightened emotions.  That's true for most cases but BPD makes it horrendous.  BPD and NPD probably make up most (85-90%) conflict -driven divorces.

There are no children from the marriage?  (Your user name makes me wonder...)  Lack of custody and parenting issues removes most of the conflict.  That leaves just financial issues such as who owns what, and possibly interim support.  Hopefully you can limit it to those matters.  Court is used to handling those fact-driven and formula-handled matters.

With such a short two year marriage she is not likely to get any alimony, or at least very little and if so then only to help her to transition back to single life.  During the divorce she may get spousal support but that would end with the final decree.

Be exceedingly careful that you never vent on her.  Always, always behave as though the family court judge or a police officer is looking over your shoulder 24/7.  She likely will try to goad you into losing your cool, don't fall for it.

In a manner of speaking, she is trying to make you look worse than her.  Don't fall for it.

Since she has already filed, you're best served by getting local legal advice reducing contact to the bare minimum so she is less likely to entrap you into overreacting or — in our cases as the Nice Guys and Nice Gals here — into making unwise promises in an effort to pacify the beast.

[Gr8fulDad]

Thank you so much for the insight Salty Dawg and ForeverDad, I'll check out the book and incorporate the other considerations.

Correct, we don't have any kids together, each of us have kids from first marriage. Truthfully the only thing we need to settle on is financial, but instead of telling me what she wants or go to mediation, she chose to file for divorce without informing me.

The "facts" of the case are so overwhelming in my favor, even without any of the BPD-related items considered, but as I'm seeing from a lot of these stories, you never know how things go down in court.

I'm still holding out the possibility that we can go through mediation, but either way, there is excellent advice here to follow, particularly around how to communicate, what to say -  and more importantly -  what not to say, what to look out for, etc.

The mental/emotional support is really beneficial, because I (like seemingly many others) are working through questions if things will change, or if only I could get through to her, or if someone could validate me etc. all of which can be detrimental. I definitely have that savior/martyr energy that is a perfect match for BPD - keeps "feeding the beast" as you say Not any longer.

[EyesUp]

@Gr8fulDad - I'll add some tactical suggestions...

- Greyrock it.
Do not react to anything, especially provocation. Nothing can disturb you or engage you. You show little if any emotion toward your stbx. From this moment forward, you're a sphinx. If necessary, turn to friends and family and this forum for support. Do not engage your stbx. Sidenote: never use your atty for emotional $upport.

- Keep a journal.
Document everything. Manage your case and manage your atty. Keep a concise log of any noteworthy interactions with your stbx. Avoid long narrative descriptions - just the facts. It will be easier for you to refer back to later, if needed. Keep this journal in a secure location. Consider using a password protected file or app. Address the journal to your atty so that it becomes privileged communication - even if you never use it with your atty.

- Remain beyond reproach.
Avoid any interaction that could result in a charged interaction, or which could be reframed or distorted in some way as an example of your poor behavior.  With disordered individuals, there's a good chance that they will project all their negative behaviors on to you. The best way to avoid this is to refuse to participate. Try to limit interactions to written only - email or text.

- Know your local laws, but consider having a DVR running 24/7 when your stbx is present. This is to mitigate false accusations. You're already facing a financial abuse accusation - don't assume it will stop there.

- Stay sharp on savior/martyr awareness - this one is tricky. I gave my uBPDxw more than 50% in the divorce settlement because it helped to "grease the skids" with her atty, and candidly, because I hoped that it might help me earn some goodwill. Nope!  Someone with a persistent blame / victim mentality is never going to appreciate, well, anything. It's never enough. So while there may be something to be said for paying more than guidelines require in order to avoid litigation or to reduce legal fees associated with a protracted negotiation process, my advice is to remain pragmatic.

Some questions (sorry if I missed this):

Are you separated? Cohabitating?
Do you have an atty?
You mentioned kids from a prior relationship - how old are they?

One note about mediation:  It's definitely a good option for reasonable people. But when one person has disordered thinking, it can be very difficult to make the process work.  In theory, no one knows your stbx better than you - can you envision a process in which she will be motivated to end the conflict quickly and fairly?  Are there significant assets at stake?  Do you know your state guidelines re: division of assets in a relatively short marriage? 

Start to think about the process in terms of state guidelines and in terms of what you know about your stbx. If you're still in the atty selection process, carefully consider if you will be better served by a litigator or a negotiator.  It sounds like your stbx has selected an atty, but you're still hoping to use a mediator. That mis-match will need to be addressed sooner rather than later. and I would guess that you'll need your own atty, with or without a mediator in the process.

Let us know how you're doing.

[Gr8fulDad]

Thank you so much for this great feedback and insight, it's deeply appreciated.

Update: I just received the petition today from her lawyer. It includes a request for a restraining order that I do not contact her in any way. That's fine with me.

I have not hired a lawyer yet, was waiting until it was necessary. It appears that time is now.

She moved back home 3 months ago, out of state. I helped co-sign the lease for her, and she is refusing to pay her rent, so I am needing to continue to pay her rent or else have it ruin my own credit.

In the email from her atty, she said that they are hoping to avoid litigtation. As for separation of assets, the petition says that they hope to come to an agreement that the court finds acceptable.

The only question here is money. This feels like a case of extortion, although that is quite common I'm sure for these cases.

My kids are 8 and 11.

Appreciate you all

[SaltyDawg]

Since there are two states involved, the laws can be very different on the division of marital assets.  Talk to your attorney (use the advice in the book to find a good one), and figure out which state is more advantageous to you in this regard, as some states will take half of ALL of your assets, others will only do the assets that you accumulated while married (you want this state to have your divorce in, or have the laws of that state apply to your case).

Do your homework, do as much legwork as you can, as this will be a costly affair.

Take care with self care.

[ForeverDad]

I have not hired a lawyer yet, was waiting until it was necessary. It appears that time is now.

That Splitting paperback by William Eddy has a section on how to hire an experienced and proactive attorney with solid strategies.  Even if there are no custody/parenting issues, you may still need a lawyer with that experience and perspective.

She moved back home 3 months ago, out of state. I helped co-sign the lease for her, and she is refusing to pay her rent, so I am needing to continue to pay her rent or else have it ruin my own credit.

The only question here is money... This feels like a case of extortion, although that is quite common I'm sure for these cases.

Sounds like you're stuck with paying her lease as co-signer, hopefully it's no more than a year.  She wants negotiation?  Then any money she wants ought to have the lease costs deducted from it, after all it's her lease.  Ah, if only life was fair.

Sounds like she's done this before and knows her way around marriage & divorce tactics.

[engiebpd]

I am revisiting this forum and reading this breaks my heart for you.  There are some videos on YouTube with specialists discuss how to Grey Rock and what to expect can happen.   I would avoid texting her anything that can show you were "verbally abusive".

I assume she went 1 month talking to lawyers and possibly trying to find ways to extract the most.  Did she ever call authorities on you for any domestic abuse?  If not, your lawyer may be able to argue that there were no calls to authorites during the relationship and that it is a lie if she claims you were abusive in any way, I believe.  Def talk to lawyers that have experience with high conflict divorced and narcissistic individuals.

I would consider reviewing your finance history and credit card because if this is about $, her lawyer will likely force you to subpoena your cc expenses, income etc..  2 years doesn't seem that bad but you may have to pay something.  Your lawyer should be able to get her financial reports to.  If she had no income and was freeloading off of you, she may claim that you were supporting her while she was "caring for your children"

I went through a divorce but I have a 3 year old and I was stuck having to live out my lease with her for 8-9 months.   It was the most mentally exhaustive soul sucking situation ever. 

Try your best to not react to any of her provoking methods.  I hope that you may have avoided this in the past and not text her anything negative that she can use against you in court.

Also, I would consider assessing what you may have done in the past that she may exaggerate of financial abuse or any kind of abuse.

It is very good that you don't have a child with this woman.   I have to research and strategically coparent properly still.

[ForeverDad]

I would avoid texting her anything that can show you were "verbally abusive".

Anything you "admitted" that puts you in a bad light could be used against you if it was emailed, texted or recorded.

For example, this is very troubling:  "I'm sorry I was..."

However, this skirts the issue of whether she claims you were abusive:  "I'm sorry you feel I was..."  I don't recall anyone ever getting in legal trouble for hurting another's feelings.

[livednlearned]

I'm still holding out the possibility that we can go through mediation

In my state mediation was not court-mandated but it was frowned on to not try that first. We had a busy family law court and judges didn't want to see people unless it was necessary. They definitely did not want to see repeat customers. Lawyers worked hard to counsel their clients to settle.

If your spouse gets a reasonable lawyer and you're in a state with a similar process, hopefully there will be some momentum to at least try mediation. If she has a restraining order you can be in separate rooms with a mediator going between (pros and cons to that way).

What I learned from mediation is that it's a good idea to have pie in the sky goals, then a reasonable goal, then a bottom line goal, the one you refuse to compromise on. Start with the pie in the sky goal so you have some room to negotiate down to the reasonable goal. When I divorced I knew nothing about codependence or BPD and my mediation approach was to give my spouse everything so he would stop fighting me. This doesn't work and actually makes things worse. It's like saying you don't want someone to come through the door by swinging it wide open. 

It's better to be assertive, and help the other party negotiate with themselves, if that makes sense.

If she says "pay my rent for life and give me 90 percent of everything you made before we met and 100 percent of what you made while we were married" you come back with "we weren't married long enough for me to pay you alimony but I'll give you $50K as a parting gift. Except I've been paying $40K for this lease since day/date, so we'll subtract that. When you've transferred the lease to your name I'll give you the remaining $10K."

Your reasonable offer might be that you plan to cut your losses on the lease and give her $50K but she'll become focused on the $10K and work from there. Like coming back with "that's not fair, you need to give me the full $50K" in which she just went from "give me everything" to working with your terms. Haggling on your terms, even if you lose something, can help you both get to a place that's located somewhere in reality.

It's also important to figure out where you have leverage. I truly believe this helps prevent pwBPD from sabotaging not only you but themselves. Then use that leverage wisely because it's precious and often there is not much to go around.

Closing loopholes can create leverage. Lawyers tend to be terrible about helping you close loopholes because they don't feel the emotional pain of hemorrhaging money and they certainly don't mind getting paid more to go back to court. Ethically, they'll say they want to help keep you out of court but financially it's just another day's work. It stunned me how lawyers tossed around numbers to the tune of $10K like it was made of paper.

Closing loopholes is also necessary because pwBPD tend to stonewall and obstruct, even when compliance with the court order or settlement benefits them. If you end up getting a mediation settlement, that's half the battle. The next half is getting her to comply, which will be hard because her contrarian streak is likely to get activated, even if being contrarian harms her. Hurting you might be more important than getting hurt in the process. It sort of depends on how her BPD traits present and why she's leaving. If there is an affair partner lined up this can actually be advantageous even as painful and gutting as it may feel in the moment. She'll be more likely to sign things and get stuff done so she can move on.

An example of using leveraging and closing loopholes is if you want her to sign over the lease. She has leverage even if you have a court order because this isn't something you can easily enforce. Your leverage might be that she gets buckets of money only when she takes over the lease, plus the extra bits she managed to "win" in mediation (that you were all along prepared to give). The consequence for not complying with the settlement/order is that she doesn't get paid. If she signs over the lease, she gets paid. Lawyers won't necessarily include that language or structure it that way so you may have to advocate for things to work this way.

The restraining order actually gives you space to not engage and this can also be advantageous.

However, it's important to pay attention to the RO, though, because she's signaling high-conflict behaviors and you don't want to see where she's capable of taking this. Some members here took precautions to time stamp their whereabouts by keeping receipts and taking photos to document time/location in case their ex spouse tried to use the restraining order to make things worse (accusing them of following them, stalking them, breaking the RO). The he-said, she-said problem is real -- there is nothing to stop someone from showing up in court and saying "I have an RO against him and he showed up at my door last night at 3am drunk, screaming and pounding on the door." Even though she didn't call 911, and even though there is no documentation of the incident, she has the advantage of believing her feelings like they're facts and convincing others to go along with this -- after all, there is an RO and you went along with it so the rest of the story must be true.

Document if you can, even if she is not in contact with you. This isn't necessarily a common problem, it's just insurance to make sure the BPD behaviors don't create new problems when they start to mix with court processes.

If you have to go appear in court for the RO it might be worth asking the judge to apply it both ways, too, just in case she shows up at your door step. "I'm not sure what drove my spouses' request for the RO but if it helps both parties feel more comfortable then I agree it's not a bad idea" is better than saying yes to something that makes you look like you have an anger management problem (assuming you don't).

[Gr8fulDad]

Thank you so much for taking to the time to share this detailed response, it is incredibly helpful and appreciative.

What has happened since my last post would be of no surprise to anyone, and has played out with lies, manipulation, and hemorrhaging money to lawyers.

Incredibly, tonight I got a call from her ex-husband, who is the father of her kids. He was tipped off by something his daughter told him, and he felt compelled to call me and tell me the truth. I'll spare the details but to say that the lies of her life go deeper than I thought, and he offered to write me an affidavit or do anything else he could to help. He said he wanted to say something sooner, but didn't feel it was his place, and also was genuinely hoping she would find stability.

His call was a Godsend, and the last piece of validation I need to put a stop to this once and for all.

The next move is to file an emergency hearing for extortion and manipulation. I have clear evidence of her lying under oath and plenty of documentation to show manipulation - And now I have corroboration from others who have experienced the same.

Will see how it goes, but to be honest this is the most clear and certain I have felt through the entire experience.

Thank you all for your continued support, this message board is truly a gift.

[SaltyDawg]

Thank you for sharing an update with us.  It sounds like you have been through hell, and you are now on your way back.


What has happened since my last post would be of no surprise to anyone, and has played out with lies, manipulation, and hemorrhaging money to lawyers.

I am not an expert; however, from what I have read, and seen in my own wife, their feelings are on overdrive (way out of proportion to the perceived slight) - so in order for their feelings to be justified they will adjust their facts to match their feelings (they actually believe their facts, so they are very convincing), unlike a normal person who will adjust their feelings to match the facts.  So the false narrative that they generate becomes lies, and in-turn this becomes manipulation so they don't feel that way.  In order to defend against the false narrative, especially the more dangerous false narratives require you to literally defend yourself in court and that requires expensive attorneys.  It is a very vicious process.  The most incredulous part of this, is that once they state their facts, those facts will shift, much like moving goal posts once they are called out on their fallacy to match their current misperceived belief.


Incredibly, tonight I got a call from her ex-husband, who is the father of her kids. He was tipped off by something his daughter told him, and he felt compelled to call me and tell me the truth. I'll spare the details but to say that the lies of her life go deeper than I thought, and he offered to write me an affidavit or do anything else he could to help. He said he wanted to say something sooner, but didn't feel it was his place, and also was genuinely hoping she would find stability.

I did something similar for the dude who was dating my exgf who is uBPD/uNPD/u+, I sent an anonymous tip to him to read the front page of the largest newspaper in the state for a story on her - my first borderline relationship was on the extreme end of the scale, dumped her, only to land in one that was very subtle (which I am still in).


His call was a Godsend, and the last piece of validation I need to put a stop to this once and for all.

I am glad that you found the closure you needed to validate your feelings and perceptions.


The next move is to file an emergency hearing for extortion and manipulation. I have clear evidence of her lying under oath and plenty of documentation to show manipulation - And now I have corroboration from others who have experienced the same.

It sounds like you have a good direction to move forward against your wife.  Borderlines rarely change, unless they can gain a self-awareness that they are the ones who are messed up, my wife knows she is messed up, she just doesn't know the extent of it, and for over half of the issues she is still in denial, so her recovery process has hit a wall - I am going to try a few more approaches before throttling back on her recovery and plan for a divorce.


Will see how it goes, but to be honest this is the most clear and certain I have felt through the entire experience.

There is something very validating when there is concrete evidence, in your case, your wife's ex, in my case a newspaper article and websites (didn't talk about that one) that you are not the one who is messed up as they assert.  This is the 'crazy-making' aspect of having a relationship with a cluster-B (BPD/NPD/HSP/ASPD) where they tell you that you are the crazy one.


Thank you all for your continued support, this message board is truly a gift.

Yes, this board is a huge gift, it has been instrumental in helping me figure out the borderline mind along with experts in the field I have interacted with and hired, in 1-1/2 years I have learned so much about borderlines, I can accurately predict their behaviors as I can understand what goes on in their neurodivergent (polite way of saying 'bat-sh!t-crazy') minds.  They have my pity; however, they are very dangerous, just like a wild animal, but they don't know they are dangerous and think they are cute and cuddly but can turn on you in an instant and bite your ______ off.

My biggest piece of advice I didn't mention, whatever that looks like for you, be sure to do self-care, as these kinds of relationships are mind fu*ks. 

Once again, thanks for the update.  I would be curious as to the outcome of your upcoming court hearing, and if there was anything that didn't go your way or not as anticipated - I am taking notes for myself.

Take care.

SD

[ForeverDad]

The next move is to file an emergency hearing for extortion and manipulation. I have clear evidence of her lying under oath and plenty of documentation to show manipulation - And now I have corroboration from others who have experienced the same.

The need for reporting extortion and manipulation is for you and your lawyer to assess and determine.  My impression from my divorce and many others described here is that courts are most interested in just getting through the divorce cases with the least action necessary to unwind the relationship and get on to the next.  To describe the professionals as more like referees than arbiters of justice may be more accurate than not.

That you don't share any children makes the divorce much simpler, it should be more about separating finances, assets and debits.  There are typical formulas courts use.  A two year marriage is definitely considered a short term marriage, probably no alimony will result.  (These days alimony is more about providing for a transition to post-married life.  Two years is a mere blip in life.)

However, there is likelihood she wants to delay the divorce, many pwBPD try to sabotage the other's life.  Depending on the impact she is putting on the divorce process, it may be necessary to seek legal relief.