Looking for Guidance

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I don’t really know where to begin, but I am deeply concerned for my wife of 10 years who I suspect suffers from undiagnosed BPD.

I recently discovered she has been having an affair which has brought to the forefront intense reflection on our relationship over the last 10 years. She suffered an extremely tumultuous childhood and upbringing with significant history of abandonment, suffered physical and emotional abuse as a child, has had rocky personal and familial relationships, has an inability to quell her rage even over seemingly minor infractions, intense need for emotional connection and validation, and has expressed twice her thoughts of killing herself. I do need to note that as far as I am aware, these have been passing thoughts instead of actionable ideas, but I do believe it is important that the second threat was far more specific than the first. “I feel like killing myself” turned into “I thought about hanging myself” in the span of two weeks, each time brought on by conversations that I believe triggered her fear of abandonment. Discussing these statements with her leads to her downplaying them as “just sad passing thoughts, don’t use them against me.” She admits and is obviously suffering with guilt and shame, but has flat out refused to discuss this pain with family, friends, a therapist, or psychiatrist. She says she’s fine and will get through it.

I am aware of the danger in labeling someone who has not been officially diagnosed with a disorder like BPD, and I am no physician. I can only speak to recognizing patterns in our relationship and in what I know of her other relationships. I have conferred with my own support system with psychology backgrounds and they also confirm my suspicion. I plan to discuss with my own personal therapist in my next appointment.

In the meantime, I’m not sure what to do. I am a methodical and fairly rational thinker, and am trying to plan details for a divorce with a largely unwilling and unreasonable partner while protecting the interests of our 3 children. She is a good mom who loves her children intensely, and the last thing I want to do is take them away from her. They need her, but she definitely needs them at this point. Maybe I’ve been reading too much in to it, but I am afraid that if this is BPD, our children could suffer a similar behavioral pattern in the future.

I guess I am looking for a few things-
1) considering the suicidal ideation, do I consider discussing BPD with a lawyer? In an ideal world, I do not want sole custody. The kids need their mom in their lives as much as I do. But in our state a judge will not sign off on 50/50 custody unless both parents agree.
2) to make sure I’m not crazy here. All of my own thoughts about how I project make me feel like it could be projection inception, in a way. Mirrors reflecting off mirrors.
3) How can I most effectively encourage her to seek treatment? 4) am I heartless for considering divorcing someone in such obvious pain? How do I manage the guilt?


Despite the hurt I feel due to these circumstances, I care deeply about this woman as the mother of our children and truly want her to live a happy and fulfilled life, even if that’s without me by her side. I know that even if she does suffer from BPD, it’s not her fault. I am happy to provide additional details with discretion if it is helpful.

Thank you for being a part of this site. The information has been deeply valuable and has given me needed perspective.

[CherryGarcia]

I don’t really know where to begin, but I am deeply concerned for my wife of 10 years who I suspect suffers from undiagnosed BPD.

I recently discovered she has been having an affair which has brought to the forefront intense reflection on our relationship over the last 10 years. She suffered an extremely tumultuous childhood and upbringing with significant history of abandonment, suffered physical and emotional abuse as a child, has had rocky personal and familial relationships, has an inability to quell her rage even over seemingly minor infractions, intense need for emotional connection and validation, and has expressed twice her thoughts of killing herself. I do need to note that as far as I am aware, these have been passing thoughts instead of actionable ideas, but I do believe it is important that the second threat was far more specific than the first. “I feel like killing myself” turned into “I thought about hanging myself” in the span of two weeks, each time brought on by conversations that I believe triggered her fear of abandonment. Discussing these statements with her leads to her downplaying them as “just sad passing thoughts, don’t use them against me.” She admits and is obviously suffering with guilt and shame, but has flat out refused to discuss this pain with family, friends, a therapist, or psychiatrist. She says she’s fine and will get through it.

I am aware of the danger in labeling someone who has not been officially diagnosed with a disorder like BPD, and I am no physician. I can only speak to recognizing patterns in our relationship and in what I know of her other relationships. I have conferred with my own support system with psychology backgrounds and they also confirm my suspicion. I plan to discuss with my own personal therapist in my next appointment.

In the meantime, I’m not sure what to do. I am a methodical and fairly rational thinker, and am trying to plan details for a divorce with a largely unwilling and unreasonable partner while protecting the interests of our 3 children. She is a good mom who loves her children intensely, and the last thing I want to do is take them away from her. They need her, but she definitely needs them at this point. Maybe I’ve been reading too much in to it, but I am afraid that if this is BPD, our children could suffer a similar behavioral pattern in the future.

I guess I am looking for a few things-
1) considering the suicidal ideation, do I consider discussing BPD with a lawyer? In an ideal world, I do not want sole custody. The kids need their mom in their lives as much as I do. But in our state a judge will not sign off on 50/50 custody unless both parents agree.
2) to make sure I’m not crazy here. All of my own thoughts about how I project make me feel like it could be projection inception, in a way. Mirrors reflecting off mirrors.
3) How can I most effectively encourage her to seek treatment? 4) am I heartless for considering divorcing someone in such obvious pain? How do I manage the guilt?


Despite the hurt I feel due to these circumstances, I care deeply about this woman as the mother of our children and truly want her to live a happy and fulfilled life, even if that’s without me by her side. I know that even if she does suffer from BPD, it’s not her fault. I am happy to provide additional details with discretion if it is helpful.

Thank you for being a part of this site. The information has been deeply valuable and has given me needed perspective.

[ForeverDad]

My ex too made suicidal comments in the last couple years of our marriage.  Guess what?  She never made such comments once we separated and divorced over 15 years ago.  Clearly, time revealed that she fit (2) below.

I'm no professional but if you read the literature there are two general categories for suicidal comments.

(1) The person is truly suicidal and needs professional assessment, a task for trained emergency responders or hospitals.  You are not trained to assess and no professional expects you to do so.

(2) The person is trying to manipulate you (your emotions or actions) in some way.  Try (1) above but be forewarned, by the time help arrives your spouse - especially if Borderline - is likely to Deny making such suicidal ideations and Blame Shift it onto you.  So either have witnesses or recordings to document what you heard.

As for your lawyer, discuss all relevant thoughts and conclusions.  Your lawyer can sift through everything and determine the stratgies to use at each stage.  The worst thing you can do is not share important matters with your lawyer... don't leave him or her in the dark and unprepared.  I recall my lawyer never once commented on my conclusions that my ex had acting-out PDs.  However, many times he called her crazy, bats--t crazy and far worse.

[livednlearned]

CherryGarcia, I'm glad you posted. These are not easy relationships and it can be a lot to carry the pain on our shoulders alone.

I would be less concerned about what label might get assigned (if ever) and more on the pattern of behaviors you witness, as you're doing. How long has it been since she expressed suicidal ideation?

Does your spouse know that you suspect infidelity or have you chosen to keep these suspicions to yourself for now.

What are the ages of your kids, and what kind of relationship do they have with their mom? Do you see signs of behaviors that concern you?

Have you interviewed lawyers yet?

A lot of us who are/were married to someone struggling with BPD are methodical, rational people. One of the more important things is to have a plan, and to document what you are experiencing to lessen the he said/she said dynamic if divorce does happen. Documenting can also be therapeutic for you, especially if you are doubting your judgment.

Do you feel her infidelity crosses a line for you? No judgment here. Some people can tolerate infidelity, others cannot. I would find it impossible to move past that kind of betrayal. You have a lot of compassion and empathy for your wife in spite of her infidelity, making me wonder if you have hope that the marriage is salvageable?

[CherryGarcia]

Thanks for the replies. She owned up to the infidelity after I’d suspected something was going on for a couple months. Her reaction to my anger and heartbreak over it was saying I’m overreacting and this is what she needs to feel happy. She has not taken responsibility or demonstrated verbally any remorse over the situation, and continues to talk to him.

Our kids are all 10 and under. 9, 8, and 6. Her suicidal ideation was first mentioned during a conversation a couple days after I confronted her, and the second was last week which was the more specific time. She is clearly suffering, but insists she is fine. I was so unnerved by my fear for her and our children’s safety that I removed weapons from the house and canceled a weekend trip away to be with my family. I sent my own therapist an email in part to document what is going on, but also to ask their input in how I should handle this situation.

I’ve interviewed a lawyer recommended by my financial advisor, but I hve not retained one yet as this consultation  was before I’d dug in to BPD and identified it as a serious possibility. After the rage subsides, we are generally able to hve reasonable conversations and begin discussing plans for our inevitable divorce. The infidelity definitely crosses a line, though I’d offered her a chance at reconciliation which she declined. I’d insisted she cut contact with her affair partner and pursue counseling, and she was not willing to do that. I suppose that’s the one thing that gives me pause with my suspicion of this disorder- she does not seem to circle back to me as a romantic partner, instead insisting that she be allowed to pursue her romantic interest while retaining the safety and security of the life we’ve built together. Whenever there is some event that triggers what I assume to cause feelings of abandonment, she defaults to rage and shuts down. She has diagnosed anxiety for which she is medicated.

[CherryGarcia]

Forgot to discuss relationship with kids.

She adores them, but this is seldom shown I would say. I am of course biased, but the way I’d characterize her relationship with them is almost like they are a crutch for her. She definitely needs them, insists that they need her. I don’t disagree they need their mom, and I don’t want to take them away from her.  I would say that for at least the last few years since COVID shutdowns, I have done the lion’s share of parenting duties. I do most school drop offs and pickups unless I’m unable to do so dude to work. It’s a minimum of 3 days a week I’d say. I do most bedtimes, bath times, and am at every sports game and do most practice drop offs. This is of course my perspective, and again I am biased and feeling hurt by trying to make such an effort to help in the ways she needed while she ran to an affair. But she is more than happy to let the kids watch TV and play on games for hours a day and pays attention to them when I believe she needs the attention. I do not think it’s fair for our kids to be used as a crutch for her emotionally.

[SaltyDawg]

CherryGarcia,

Welcome to BPD family,

sidenote:  I love the nickname, I am a big Ben and Jerry's fan

Two resources that you may want to read, I've read both, there is some overlap.  The first one concentrates on the alienating issue, the 2nd one is a more general guide on divorce.

"Don't Alienate the Kids! Raising Resilient Children While Avoiding High Conflict Divorce"
By Bill Eddy · 2010

"Splitting - Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline Or Narcissistic Personality Disorder"  By Bill Eddy, Randi Kreger, William A. Eddy · 2021

Get the books, best money you can spend on your defence now.  You can see the 'quick start guide' at https://www.google.com/books/edition/Splitting/WxQxEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PT8&printsec=frontcover along with several other pages to get you started... while you are waiting for your copies.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[livednlearned]

Suicidal ideation is not uncommon and it's understandable that it creates distress for you. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Does your therapist help you put it in context or give you a sense of what to do when it happens again? Sometimes it's best to focus on what you fear most and gather as much information as you can to help quell anxiety and emotional flooding for when/if it happens again. Otherwise it can become the thing that dictates everything else, and in BPD relationships and divorce, it's important to center things on what is best for you and the kids, since your wife is likely to struggle with that perspective. She may be able to focus on what's best for her, for you and the kids in fragments but it will be hard to do so consistently.

What kind of arrangement do you think is best for the kids? Would you consider therapy for them?

[ForeverDad]

3) How can I most effectively encourage her to seek treatment?
4) am I heartless for considering divorcing someone in such obvious pain? How do I manage the guilt?

While a person can be supportive of the other spouse, it is impractical to 'fix' them.  Especially when BPD, there is too much past emotional baggage of the relationship for the spouse to really listen.  That is why an emotionally neutral therapist is so invaluable.  There are no guarantees, but that's the best help.  With BPD there are also issues with Blaming, Blame Shifting and outright Denial that also sabotage meaningful therapy.

You are not heartless.   Marriage is a relationship between two adults.  Adults are expected to be reasonably normal and capable persons.  You don't have to "raise or excessively coddle" an adult spouse.  You don't have to be Superman or Superwoman either.  Reasonable accommodations are appropriate but the extremes a person with BPD (pwBPD) can demand or pressure or manipulate can and do distress their spouses.  If you've reached your limit, then so be it.

Do not be surprised if your spouse, when facing a divorce, turns out to be surprisingly strong.  In the final year of my marriage my spouse was consistently moaning, groaning and crying - when she wasn't ranting and raging.  As soon as we separated, she turned into a very strong woman, willing to make any allegation however farfetched (to try) to make me look worse than her.  That was nearly 20 years ago, I never again heard any suicidal ideation again.  I look back and discern she wanted to guilt and manipulate me.

We're not here in professional capacity, we're peer support.  But we've also "been there, done that".