What can I reasonably expect from my BPD daughter?

[Ever Optimistic]

  This is my first post. I have a 20-year-old daughter who has severe BPD. She now has a two-month -old baby. I’ve done everything I can think of to help her over the last seven years. Meds, talk therapies, DBT therapy, electrode brain waves treatments, books, inpatient treatments, long-term residential treatment, and all to no avail.
She has gone to inpatient for a week while we watched her two week old baby, needed a break for a weekend again, and then two days later we had him for another four days. She lives 175 miles away, so these aren’t convenient grandma visits.
Daughter doesn’t have a car or drivers license (license was taken away when her therapist had to report her suicidal ideation and plan to drive her car head on into another car to kill herself. All driving is on our end.
She has burned every bridge and relationship. She is mean, especially to me. I set boundaries last year and reduced our contact. I now feel I need to stay involved now that there is a baby involved.
So I need some help in understanding what I can expect from someone with severe BPD. Can someone with severe BPD hold a job? She lives in an area that has very limited mental health resources. Can someone with severe BPD be safe as a parent? She fights with her fiancé and it has become physical. She is the instigator and makes things physical while the baby is right there. She has a domestic violence charge in plea-and-abeyance right now, and the cops were called by her fiancé again last week. She can’t live with me because we constantly argue when I ask her to do anything.
What advice does anyone have? I am lost and empty right now.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Ever Optimistic]

This is my first post. I have a 20-year-old daughter who has severe BPD. She now has a two-month -old baby. I’ve done everything I can think of to help her over the last seven years. Meds, talk therapies, DBT therapy, electrode brain waves treatments, books, inpatient treatments, long-term residential treatment, and all to no avail.
She has gone to inpatient for a week while we watched her two week old baby, needed a break for a weekend again, and then two days later we had him for another four days. She lives 175 miles away, so these aren’t convenient grandma visits.
Daughter doesn’t have a car or drivers license (license was taken away when her therapist had to report her suicidal ideation and plan to drive her car head on into another car to kill herself). All driving is on our end.
She has burned every bridge and relationship. She is mean, especially to me. I set boundaries last year and reduced our contact. I now feel I need to stay involved now that there is a baby involved.
So I need some help in understanding what I can expect from someone with severe BPD. Can someone with severe BPD hold a job? She lives in an area that has very limited mental health resources. Can someone with severe BPD be safe as a parent? She fights with her fiancé and it has become physical. She is the instigator and makes things physical while the baby is right there. She has a domestic violence charge in plea-and-abeyance right now, and the cops were called by her fiancé again last week. She can’t live with me because we constantly argue when I ask her to do anything.
What advice does anyone have? I am lost and empty right now.

[SaltyDawg]

Ever Optimistic,

   I hear you, and your story resonates with me.  I will respond later on in more detail as it is late where I am.

   You are not alone, there are a lot of people here who have similar stories that you do.

   Read the tools here, read other's stories, and respond to them as well.

   I know you are hurting really bad right now.  You can find additional resources at NAMI.org (in person support groups) with similar stories too.

   Take are with self-care.

[SaltyDawg]

I have a 20-year-old daughter who has severe BPD. She now has a two-month -old baby. I’ve done everything I can think of to help her over the last seven years. Meds, talk therapies, DBT therapy, electrode brain waves treatments, books, inpatient treatments, long-term residential treatment, and all to no avail.

That sounds very serious; however, it would appear that none of these treatments are effective as your dear daughter still wants to kill herself.   Has she been in these treatments by choice, or did you force her into treatment?  There is a very big difference in gaging her motivation to get better.  If she is in it by choice, then she has a vested interest in getting better, if she has been forced, she is only doing enough to get the heck out of the treatment, and has no real interest in getting better.


She has gone to inpatient for a week while we watched her two week old baby, needed a break for a weekend again, and then two days later we had him for another four days. She lives 175 miles away, so these aren’t convenient grandma visits.

That sounds tough and difficult.  May I ask where the baby's father's role in all of this?  It sounds like he has abandoned her and his baby.  175 miles is at least a 3 hour drive each way, if not more, that is a lot of time commitment on your part.


Daughter doesn’t have a car or drivers license (license was taken away when her therapist had to report her suicidal ideation and plan to drive her car head on into another car to kill herself. All driving is on our end.

That is pretty scary.  That is a lot of driving.


She has burned every bridge and relationship. She is mean, especially to me. I set boundaries last year and reduced our contact. I now feel I need to stay involved now that there is a baby involved.

Boundaries are good.


So I need some help in understanding what I can expect from someone with severe BPD. Can someone with severe BPD hold a job? She lives in an area that has very limited mental health resources.

Some can; however, most will eventually have an episode, and leave for some reason or another.  From what I have read, most of the pwBPD can hold a job for a few weeks to a couple of years, with most averaging around 6 months.  You know your daughter the best.  How long has she been able to keep a job in the past?  Use this information as an informed indication on how long she might be able to hold a job in the future.


Can someone with severe BPD be safe as a parent? She fights with her fiancé and it has become physical. She is the instigator and makes things physical while the baby is right there. She has a domestic violence charge in plea-and-abeyance right now, and the cops were called by her fiancé again last week.

That sounds very serious and the courts are involved - depending on the jurisdiction will determine how much they are involved and which agencies are involved.  At least the fiance has got some boundaries (he calls the police on violent behaviors), I am assuming that the fiance is the father of the baby.  I urge you to talk to the fiance about the baby and his relationship with your daughter.  Does he plan on staying, is he going to leave, if so, what custody arrangements does he want?

Has CPS been notified?  If so, has CPS done an investigation?  If CPS recommends placement in foster care, or your care, are you willing to accept this long term commitment?

Do either of them (daughter / fiance) have substance abuse issues?  Alcohol?  Weed?  Other?

If your daughter is breast feeding, how does this factor into all this?

A lot of questions... with very few answers.


She can’t live with me because we constantly argue when I ask her to do anything.

This severely limits what you can do for her, unless you are willing to support her financially.  Is this something you are willing to do for her?


What advice does anyone have? I am lost and empty right now.

I feel your pain, and can only imagine how incredibly hopeless you are right now.  I do have a few suggestions...

Since the fiance is still around, talk to him.  If the fiance's parent(s) are known to you, contact them, and loop them in as well, since it is their grandchild too.  Both I would imagine have a vested interest in the wellbeing of your grandchild if you are unwilling to take your granddaughter in with your daughter into your home - which is very understandable given the circumstances you have shared.

If you are not getting the answers you are looking for, then contact an attorney that specializes in child custody issues.  Some states recognize grandparents, while others do not.  A local attorney will be able to give you more advice and paths to follow specific to your location.

Two resources that you might want to read, I've read both, there is some overlap as both deal with children and custody.  The first one concentrates on alienating the children predominately by one parent to the other, but also covers grandparent alienation as well.  The 2nd one is a more general guide on custody arrangements that are specific to divorce, but applicable in your scenario as well.  While there has not been any indication of alienation in what you wrote, the conditions are ripe for it to occur (using the grandbaby as a hostage to you, so you release resources to her - housing, money, etc.)

"Don't Alienate the Kids! Raising Resilient Children While Avoiding High Conflict Divorce"
By Bill Eddy · 2010

"Splitting - Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline Or Narcissistic Personality Disorder"  By Bill Eddy, Randi Kreger, William A. Eddy · 2021

Have more questions, please ask.

I am sure this is very stressful for you.  Please be sure to fill your cup with self-care, so you can take care of your grandchild. 

Take care with self-care.

[Ever Optimistic]

Depending on the day the fiancé wants to stick around, but within a day or so they are fighting and calling it off. He also told my daughter that if they break up he will sign away his rights to their new son, my grandson. He has already done so with his now three-year-old, who I still consider my grandson as well per the little boy’s mom’s wishes.
We are willing to take my grandson in, but would need to hire a nanny because we work full-time, although it is remote work from home.

[SaltyDawg]

Depending on the day the fiancé wants to stick around, but within a day or so they are fighting and calling it off. He also told my daughter that if they break up he will sign away his rights to their new son, my grandson. He has already done so with his now three-year-old, who I still consider my grandson as well per the little boy’s mom’s wishes.
We are willing to take my grandson in, but would need to hire a nanny because we work full-time, although it is remote work from home.

Sounds like a mess that your daughter is in as the father doesn't want to be there for his children.  I hear you, and I can empathize with you on how difficult and frustrating this can be for you.

You and your partner need to have a talk between yourselves, as that is a 20-30 year commitment, and do what is best for you - and your daughter's new son.  If you think there will be any legal issues, you may want to start looking for a local attorney in family law that might be able to help you out, especially with child support from the father.  Check with local mental health agencies, they often can give you good referrals, or the social worker at the local women's shelter they have a list of resources.

If you don't already have one, consider getting a good couple's therapy for you and your partner so you can sort out your feelings on this as this will be a multi-decade commitment.

Just giving you some direction to find a place to start on the challenging journey that you are about to embark on.

Remember to keep your cup full, by taking care of yourselves first, so you can take of your daughter's child.  Take care with self-care.

[Sancho]

Hi Everoptimistic
I imagine you are very sad and anxious at the moment. Things are surely on a knife edge!

Years ago when my dd briefly saw a psychiatrist, his report back to her GP stated that it was unlikely she would be able to hold down a job or function in any consistent manner. DD was about 15 at that time. he was spot on!

Around 20 years old dd had a baby. I was in the background,  - where dd wanted me to be because she was getting a lot of attention for a short period of time. But she absolutely couldn't cope. The child is now 13 and has been week on week off with her dad and his family and myself until she was around 11 when she refused to go back to her dad's because her step mom was really gaslighting her (the effect has been severe).

The current facts seem to be the your dd isn't coping on several fronts. From what you say, it seems to me that you anticipate the child will need someone else to care for them, and you feel you would be able to do this for your grandchild - and this would be wonderful for the child.

If I can make one suggestion? If this is how things pan out, in my opinion it is better to have the child formally placed in your care. It is easy at times to make an informal arrangement with the parent - your dd - and this can often happen on the basis that it is temporary and it becomes long term.

I am sure you can imagine the complications that can occur when you don't actually have formal, legal custody of a child, especially when BPD folk can be so erratic and blaming.

Perhaps doing what you are doing at the moment might be the best way of seeing how things go in the next month or so - or when the DV matter is addressed there might be action taken in relation to the child.

You have clearly thought things through. Your dd is only 20 and seems very unwell, so it is highly likely the care of gs will become a very real situation. I am not sure how the process of formally placing the child in your care would start and proceed, but I think it would be much better in the long run if you are able to have legal authority.

[Randi Kreger]

I think you’ve gotten good advice from people, especially that of getting custody of the children. That shouldn’t be too hard if the mother is suicidal and homicidal, and the father has no interest. I’m getting the feeling that that’s why you’re hanging in and if you don’t get custody, Someday she may rip the child from you. She may not know how to raise a child.

The first thing I would recommend is understand how to stop fights. Refuse to Jade, which is justifying, arguing, defending, and explaining. You have to remember that you were talking to a severely mentally ill person, and getting into an argument with her is like getting into an argument with a three year-old emotionally, speaking, people with BPD are stuck at that level. Is it more important to be effective, or is it more important to be right?

Instead of debating issues, make decisions. You can’t make decisions for her, but you can make decisions for you, such as not having her live at home. That is a good boundary. If you are not paying for her, I would advise that you not start. Once you start that, it’s like putting a patient on the ventilator. They never get off the ventilator.

Do you want to know what to expect from her, but that is asking a very general question. What you really want to know is what can you expect from your daughter specifically, not people like her.

I can tell you that all of us have scary things that we have to do, and sometimes we don’t know that we can do them until we accomplish it. my second year of college at UW Madison I was terrified and lonely. But it got better. But I had to endure loneliness and heartache. I didn’t know that I could do it before I did it. But I did it.

Likewise, your daughter won’t know what you can accomplish until she does. Rather than argue with her, problem solve with her. Don’t assume responsibility over her problems. Instead, support her in solving her own problems she needs to get some success under her belt. She will build confidence along the way.

The one question I have for you is, does she want to get better or not? That is a lot of therapy to go through and have nothing work, and nothing works. If you don’t want to get healthier. Every single one of those therapies requires work, especially DBT. If she doesn’t want to get better, is that because of depression and suicidality?

The suicidality, I think is the one significant problem that you can get involved in. Whenever she talks about being suicidal, tell her you were going to call emergency services and they will take her to the hospital. If she really is suicidal, that’s where she needs to be. If she isn’t suicidal, she will think of some reason why she doesn’t need emergency services.

I hope this is all right, but I know of another resource for you and it’s on Facebook and it’s called children with borderline personality disorder or something like that. It is run by a woman named Donna Toone. She has run that place for a very long time and she has a great deal of wisdom, and I think she might be able to help you.

The second resource I would direct you to is the NEABPD, which stands for the national education alliance for borderline personality disorder.neabpd.org is their website call them. Ask for a woman named Abby. She runs a place. She’s also a therapist of which particular flavor I don’t remember. I would talk to her. The NEA BPD, specializes in Treating women like your daughter

The NEABPD may want to ask you some questions about the DBT course that she took. There are certified DBT courses in which the people have actually done the training and taking the tests and can truly call themselves a DBT therapy. A DBT therapy should have a time once a week when the staff get together and help each other with problem clients. I remember listening to seminar in which, the NEABPD said that every good DBT program should have one.

I hope this has been helpful. You have a really tough case. Remember to keep taking care of yourself and set boundaries when you need to.