Disagree with Marsha Linehan's take that those with BPD don't manipulate

[StepMothering]

I'm going to paraphrase some throughout my post since I can't directly site Marsha Linehan's feedback about how those with BPD aren't manipulative. I disagree.

Marsha Linehan, who developed dialectical behavioral therapy, states that "People with emotion dysregulation are not manipulative.  Pushing buttons is a desperate request for a connection in the worst possible way."

Sure, they are not being manipulative when they are threatening suicide because they are reaching out in desperate need to not be abandoned. And many times their responses aren't manipulative because they are in pain and only trying to save and protect themselves.

However, in many cases there is an overriding theme of manipulation. For instance, when they want something new to replace something that failed. 'It' could have failed because of outward circumstances that aren't their fault or cause. Or the failure could have happened because they didn't commit or show up or make any efforts to make it successful.

My adult stepdaughter wBPD (33 yrs old) continually tries to convince her father or mother to buy things or do things for her because they caused her to end up with BPD.  She tells the how do they expect her to get better if she doesn't take this course so she can have a solid career. Or take singing lessons so she can feel better about herself... and it never ends.  These acts are manipulation.

She finds fault with the doctors that we have taken her to that don't work out, the DBT programs we sign her up and pay for, the group sessions that she doesn't attend because everyone else is much sicker than her.  She tries to manipulate us into believing that in the end none of these was good enough so if we want her to get better we need to try a new doctor or new program.

Her current psychologist has called us a second time to request that we consider putting her back into an intensive inpatient program.  She is an adult so none of these places can keep her. The first one we paid for she left after three weeks.  It had a farm-like setting and she chose it because it was beautiful and there was animal therapy.
I feel like she is manipulating her current psychologist into believing that a new inpatient facility will work even though the last inpatient one didn't.
The last outpatient program didn't work for her as well, as that psychologist said she is beyond their scope. (And they were DBT focused.)

If Linehan trains that those with BPD aren't manipulative, then these DBT-trained psychologists are also trained with the same mindset. How do we make sure that their caretakers aren't being manipulated?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[CC43]

Stepmom, I feel compelled to reply because I'm in a similar situation, and I'm also a stepmom.  Maybe because of that status, we tend to see through some of the behaviors as manipulation.  Maybe stepdaughters don't dare try to manipulate us directly, because they know we aren't as driven by guilt.  I mean, we see a full-grown women acting like a seven-year-old brat sometimes, or worse.  Seven-year-olds usually manage to go to school full-time, and they can handle sharing a dinner at home, chatting about the day's happenings, and maybe even help clear the table.  My stepdaughter with BPD can't handle that; she's dysfunctional right now, though she's been worse. 

My stepdaughter has pulled all the tricks you describe.  For a time, I thought she just "went along with" expensive therapies, not because she thought she needed to change, but because she could abdicate responsibility.  I mean, she wasn't responsible for her blow-ups leading to the need for therapy--it was always someone else's fault.  And at the same time, she was able to get out of school or work.  She got to play the victim, the poor little girl who has been through so much trauma.  (It seems today that the definition of "trauma" has been diluted, and that it confers some social status.  My stepdaughter would characterize moving to a new home after high school graduation as trauma--and she didn't even have to change schools.)  I'm not saying that she doesn't have emotional issues; I just don't fully believe her stories of trauma and victimhood, because she twists facts.  She always portrays herself as a victim, though when you eventually get the full story from others, she's usually the perpetrator!

In a way, therapy threatened to become the center of my stepdaughter's life, and I think she liked having others take care of her and pay so much attention to her.  But if the therapy conflicted with something she wanted--spring break, a trip with friends--she would refuse to participate, or drop out.  And if the therapy required some tough self-introspection, she'd resist.  I think this is part of the manipulation.  She has also manipulated her father with guilt and fear to continue working years into retirement, so that she doesn't have to work and she can remain 100% dependent.  And yet she's resentful that "everyone treats her like a child."  Well, yes, basically she is still a child, because she hasn't hit the classic adult milestones (graduating, holding down a job, living independently, having a romantic relationship), and her emotional developmental age is still pre-teen, maybe young-teen.  She refuses to participate in some adult endeavors (working full time, paying taxes, voting, maintaining her car, paying some bills, etc.).  And she still has a child-like fantasy about what adult life is like.  She basically wants to be a princess, with all the benefits (fame, fashion, adoration, others catering to her) and none of the obligations.  That seems delusional to me.

Dr. Phil had a program once where he said it's critical to distinguish between an irresistible impulse and an impulse not resisted.  Many times, my stepdaughter's behaviors fall into the latter category, an impulse not resisted, i.e. a voluntary action.  Hateful and threatening emails/texts to loved ones blaming them for her own dysfunction are examples.  She did not have to send those messages, which sometimes were days or years after the triggering event.  But she did anyway, because she was mad, and she wants others to feel bad right along with her.  If you ask her, what is she looking to achieve, she'll say she wants retribution, but using her own words with swears thrown in.  She's stuck in the past, blaming others for her own poor decisions, making herself out to be the victim.  There is manipulation in that, though I also think she's also manipulating herself.  She re-interprets events to make herself the victim, because admitting the truth, that she's responsible, that she messed up, is simply too painful to her.

[StepMothering]

@CC43
It sounds like our SDw/BPD have alot in common.
Each time a professional has decided that they can do no more for her or if she doesn't make the commitment needed to get better, she is moved to the next category of issues. She moved from anxiety, to an official diagnosis of BPD (which fits so many traits), then addiction (to Nitrous Oxide), suicidality, to trauma / PTSD to the latest which is autism. All of these are co-existing diagnoses, but also typically require our moving along to the next specialist.
Her last psychologist who was running a DBT therapy program did tell us she had a pervasive sense of entitlement. Yes, many of this generation do, but she more so than others.  So it can be a trait of those with BPD and it certainly is in our case.
 
I will play devil's advocate with you though.
I truly believe my SD was an overly sensitive child. Being raised by an absent, single-mother who left her with numerous family members growing up aggravated her development. The fact that her father honored her mother's wishes letting her move closer to her family for help and away from him and let her take the lead in raising her.  He only saw his daughter with visitation a couple of times of year because of the type of jobs each of them worked.
So yes, his daughter pulls at the heart strings because he was not there for her, but he did not recognize he was not being an ideal parent until many years later. This is a common cause of childhood trauma and sense of abandonment even without the case of a sensitive child or later developing personality disorder.  She too claims that some of her trauma came out of abuse by her grandparents but the current psychologist can not get into a long enough pattern of consistent therapy sessions to be able to work through this with her since she still cannot regulate her emotions at all.  (Moving on to Autism as to why she may not be able to continue Trauma therapy.)
So I feel like your SD as well as mine definitely have BPD which we have to treat differently than just a spoiled adult-child situation.  However, they also have the extra trait of manipulation which I believe can exist in a BPD individual.

This was plucked from a Quora forum with the poster identifying himself as Michael Davies of ALIVE!
"So, it's a no then. Entitlement is not a recognized Borderline trait...More often though, people with BPD struggle to feel deserving, and/or entitled."

I disagree with this completely. BPD can also struggle to feel deserving while lashing out expecting to get whatever it is they want.
Thank you for referring to Dr. Phil. I always loved his common sense statements. I'm going to go digging around for some of those.

[PearlsBefore]

It's always important to remember that DBT was developed by Linehan (who acknowledges that she was institutionalized for BPD herself) in order to make BPD less judgemental toward pwBPDs so that it would be less off-putting to them and thus result in a higher acceptance rate and achieve results.

It may increase the efficacy, but it does so at the cost of cognitive dissonance, for example by inventing these "legal fictions" to reassure pwBPDs things/they are not as bad as they actually are...because that would make them worse.

It's also worth remembering that although DBT/CBT has a near-monopoly on mainstream BPD treatment these days, there are older, newer, and better treatment models out there as well.

[zachira]

PearlsBefore,
What are the better treatment models for BPD?

To all:
Every person with any kind of mental health diagnosis is unique in their own ways. Two people with the same mental health diagnosis can look very different whereas two people with the same physical health diagnosis will likely have many similarities.
I believe that people with BPD are at times deliberately manipulative and other times, may not know what they are doing when having a severe emotional meltdown. What people with BPD often learn early on is that their behaviors scare other people and often other people enable these behaviors out of fear and not knowing what to do. Over time those of us who have close family members with BPD learn not to reward the severe emotional meltdowns, as it only makes things worse for everybody including the person with BPD.

[Hopeless419]

I can relate so much to what you ladies are experiencing. ♥️

[26and3]

Very interesting. Several valid points already. Adding a thought here myself.

I believe that we ALL use manipulation to some extent - whether knowingly or unknowingly. My BPD kid relayed to me a subtle example of me using manipulation (facial expressions and body language) to discredit their experience. Of course, my first reaction was NO! I don't do that, YOU do that!! But instead, I sat quietly and thought about it. It was true. I didn't realize I was employing a learned behavior from family and society to get what I wanted - the silly argument to stop and let's get on with the day!! Not an excuse. So I have been more thoughtful about how I could be using subtle manipulation without even realizing it. And that makes me feel good because it opens the dialogue to talk about how people with BPD often have more extreme behaviors than those without, but at the core, we are all working on being better. And this takes away the "demonization" that so often comes up when we describe BPD. It's degrees of difference, not BPD-only traits. I think that's what ML was trying to do. Help us understand that they are not alien creatures, but they can have extreme emotions and fewer filters. I have had psychiatrists tell me to throw my kid out of the house (at 13 yrs old) and family members tell me to cut off my only child. Because they think it's a lost cause. I believe they are wrong. And if more people understood BPD and the power of DBT, they would show more empathy, ultimately leading to those poor souls with BPD receiving better treatment and living more connected and fulfilled lives. Not to say there are no other therapies that can also help, but I do still get a lot of good from DBT.

Of course, I am a work in progress! And NOT a psychiatrist or psychologist.
So take this as just my thoughts, shared with "family."

Hugs to all of you working on being better human beings. Which is all of you!!

[Pepper76]

I agree with you on this. Very similar behaviors with my teenage daughter. Very attached to being a  victim and the overuse of feeling like they are traumatized. My child talks about childhood trauma so much. The trauma she claims was me going downstairs at night to sleep in my own bed when she was ten years old. I slept with her for many years because she was scared but would tell her I was going downstairs so I could occasionally sleep in my bed with my husband.  she could always come get me if scared.  And she would sometimes. And I always came back upstairs if she was scared. So that is her trauma.  It’s almost like she has rewritten history so that she has something that was traumatizing. I think that’s common with bpd as well. It used to make me crazy that she latched onto that but I just say I’m sorry that was so difficult for you. I’ve realized this is part of their mindset and if it wasn’t that she would have found something else.

[SaltyDawg]

My short version of this answer is that they do manipulate, they are just not aware of it.

My pwBPD gaslights, DARVO's, and does about 80 other forms of emotional/psychological/physical/verbal abuses to get their way, or manipulate their way.

For gaslighting to be gaslighting, the person must be aware, if they are not, then it cannot be called gaslighting, even though the behavior from an outward appearance is identical, and the effects are too.

[PearlsBefore]

PearlsBefore,
What are the better treatment models for BPD?

Again it will be different for different patients, there's not a one-size-fits-all, but the five modern methods of treatment are DBT, Mentalization-based treatment. Transference-focused psychotherapy. Schema Therapy and STEPPS; it's not easy to find local practitioners of anything other than DBT in small areas though...DBT gained a LOT of ground seemingly in cornering the market since 2010 onward (it existed before then but not with quite the monopoly, its meteoric rise presumably mirrors that of CBT from which it's derived). Of course the Kernberg crowd of fifty years ago advocated strictly Freudian psychotherapy and from what I've read it wasn't without its successes as well. Emil Kraepelin wasn't really into treatment so much as study, but is worth reading if you can find translations - but he'd be one of the most under-rated researchers on "BPD" to my mind.