Desperately need to vent and get some advice

[Manifest32f]

Hi all, I’m desperately in need of some advice. I have an udBPD daughter (46yrs) who has the traits that she directly aims at her parents but is very capable of handling herself in a very dignified manner towards outsiders. She is a professional and has a very good job where she does very well and is greatly appreciated and respected. She considers us, especially her mother (me) her arch enemy and almost all the time believes that we don’t love her and don’t care about her. She is single and has a difficult time finding a partner since she finds everyone she has been dating the last 10-15 years not suitable. She broke up with someone she was very close to marrying, giving in to her ‘friends’ advice and regrets about that. However she takes out her frustration by lashing out at her parents. Anything we do, say or think is wrong and we are always at fault. In 2019, we decided to move away and visited her just twice due to Covid. Our visits were miserable and we were asked to leave almost every day. We had traveled a long distance and so decided to stay despite bad treatment and ultimately went back. Suddenly she informed us that she was undergoing back surgery but when we offered to come to help her, told us that her friends were going to help her. Recently, after much hesitation, my husband decided to go visit her and she is treating him terribly every minute of his stay there. He is due to return in 2 weeks and we can’t wait for that day to come. Every time he talks to me, he is telling me that she complains how we have not done a, b, c, …& how much she is upset with us/me for all the things I failed to do.She now wants me to find her a partner accusing me of not following up with some alliance about 20yrs ago, etc. I am very confused & saddened by her accusations since she had never shown any interest in the boys I suggested for her, but now she is accusing me of not following up with someone she was never interested in at that time. She also has terrible mood swings and anger issues besides anxiety and now she blames me for being single.
Sorry I have been rather lengthy and all over the place!
Setting limits is a challenge with her and she blocks me out when I do that. My husband is miserable there and I worry about him. He is 82 and he has aged terribly since he went there 3months ago. I just don’t know what to do…Thanks for allowing me to vent. Take care.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

What a silver lining that she's employed and respected. Phew. Although in some ways I imagine that makes it doubly confusing because she can hold it together professionally and dysregulate like a toddler with the people who love her the most. The whiplash of this can feel so maddening.

You mentioned setting limits with her. Can you say more about what the limits are and how you set them?

With my uBPD stepdaughter (26) I found it was more effective to set the limits non-verbally because verbal ones gave her the exact coordinates for where to find my weaknesses.

Being blocked is painful. Sometimes all that we can do is manage our own anxieties and fears when this happens -- it's the one thing we have control over. To touch earth and get grounded. She may be using that time to get her emotions regulated and return to baseline. Does it help to frame it that way? You get to take a deep breath while she takes hers.  

Would your husband consider coming home early? 2 weeks is a very long time to stay with someone, family or not. Add to that a stream of nonstop grievances and its a wonder your H isn't driven around the bend.

Would you consider working toward a goal of visiting for a shorter period of time, or staying somewhere else so you can recharge and limit the exposure to her rages? Maybe take her at her word (in the moment) that she wants you to leave. It could be similar to the above, that she needs to remove the trigger so she can regulate her emotions. It's not an ideal way to interact with people. It's also important that you limit your exposure to her abuse.

Unfortunately, when there is no change in our behaviors, it makes it unlikely there will be changes in theirs.

[CC43]

Manifest, obviously you're hurt by your daughter's behavior, after all the care you show for her.  Though your daughter may be moody and bitter about how her life is right now, it seems to me that she's thriving in many areas.  She has a good job, she's self-sufficient, and she's respected outside her family.  She has friends.  Those are great accomplishments and things to be proud of.  Maybe she needs to hear that from you.

I understand how it can feel hard to be single.  Society doesn't really like single women.  Historically they were witches.  Then they were old maids.  Others constantly ask, are you seeing anyone?  Parents often exert pressure to produce grandchildren.  It's hard to go to events solo.  Her peers are probably busy raising children, and it's easy to feel left out.  She might feel sad or depressed about that, and she's taking it out on you, especially now that she has some health issues.  Maybe she's upset that she hasn't had a baby, and she realizes it's too late.  But I think that it's way better to be single than unhappily married.  And it's not too late.  She might get married someday.  Maybe she'll adopt.  Maybe she'll be a fabulous aunt.  Maybe she can mentor younger people in her profession.  There are many paths in life that are fulfilling!

As for visits with family, she's probably lived alone a long time, and she's probably developed her own support system.  Having someone stay with her could feel disruptive, maybe even invasive.  Maybe her living quarters are best suited for one person.  I'd suggest that you consider shortening the visits or maybe stay at a hotel.  That might help smooth things over.

[Manifest32f]

Hi cc43 & Livednlearned,
Thank you for your support and understanding. Your suggestions and feedback are greatly appreciated. I will definitely keep it in mind to commend her for her achievements, big or small. I don’t always do it and have to do that regularly. I did tell her that she has great friends who are there for her and as a token of appreciation and gratitude, i got them some gifts. I have always treated them with homemade food when I was there since they are also single and fending for themselves. I understand her terror being on her own but there’s no guarantee that relationships will work either. It was her choice
Re the decision she made when I suggested anyone that I know. However I am shocked that she accuses of not finding her a partner when she had been seeing ppl on her own, dating sites, etc. but didn’t find the right one. She would never elaborate on what went wrong when she broke up with someone and would lose her temper if I asked any questions. So I practiced staying quiet except for very brief and basic questions. Now she is turning around and saying I didn’t care enough to get all the details when she broke up with anyone. I am confused. You have nailed it when you said about having a child, because she brings it up often. She is very upset that I admitted that I can’t babysit/bring up her child for her. I was terrified that she would find fault with anything I did when she has a baby and make my life miserable. Also With her volatile personality , I was not sure that is a good idea.
Re setting limits, I have said that I would not allow any raised voices, foul language or badgering, over the phone or in person but she expects that I should stand around and take it all in, raises her voice and commands ‘don’t walk away’. I usually keep my voice even and suggest that she should stop at this time and come back later when she is in a better mood to speak. She doesn’t like it and I don’t respond to her however much she tries to provoke me.
Things are going downhill and I’m trying to provide my husband with some support until he gets back. He did not plan on staying for long but she insisted that he complete all legal paperwork before heading home since she is afraid (rightly so) things will get complicated if one of us die without leaving a will. We agreed that is a good idea since we don’t want to add to her stress.
For next time, if we visit her, we will look for alternate accommodation and not overwhelm her. However I am not sure it’s ever going to happen. All I want is a little peace of mind and knowing that she is doing ok.
Thanks again and stay well.

[CC43]

Hi Manifest,

Clearly your daughter is upset about her breakup, and she's taking it out on you when she can.  It's understandable that she's upset if she wanted a baby, and maybe her boyfriend didn't want one, which could have instigated the rupture.  She might feel too upset or ashamed ("nobody wants me, nobody wants to have a baby with me") to explain why the relationship failed.  Maybe they just weren't right for each other.  But since they were close to marrying, it sounds like she's able to sustain a committed relationship, which is a positive.

That she's blaming you for her dating history is clearly not fair.  It's a characteristic of someone with BPD to blame others for their problems, because taking responsibility themselves is too painful.  I've observed that people with BPD will often project their insecurities onto others.  So if my theory is correct, your daughter's accusations about not setting her up with the right boyfriends would be a projection of her insecurities about her dating background and her desirability as a potential mate.  At any rate, that's not your fault.

To have a daughter in her mid-40s implies that you are of the baby boomer generation.  My mother is from that generation, and she was a full-time mom, a fantastic one.  But she always thought that a woman's proper place was not in the workforce, but in the home rearing children and taking care of her husband.  That would manifest in our relationship as persistent questions about dating, as well as criticisms about professional work ("You're taking a job away from a man.  Men don't want to marry independent women.  You're never going to find anyone if you're too successful, it's intimidating.  Don't buy any household items, you'll want to let your husband pick them out with you").  When I bought my first house in my 30s, my father basically criticized me, saying it was too big, too expensive for me (I paid in cash!), and that I couldn't handle it.  This is a longwinded way of saying that my parents expected me to be just like them--get married young and have babies--and they seemed oblivious to the different path my life took.  It took them decades to notice that I had professional success, was completely self-sufficient, had a healthy social life, was close to siblings, was a responsible citizen and homeowner, etc.  Their focus was mainly on my marital status (my father's conversation starter was invariably, "Any hot dates lately?").  I'm not saying that you're treating your daughter that way, but if she's sensitive like most people with BPD, she might feel that you don't really "get" her, and that you're not proud of her because she's not married yet.  That could be partly why the boyfriend disappointment stings so much.

You sound like a really great mom.  I hope you see that your daughter does have a lot going for her, even if she's not treating you very well right now.  I wish you peace and happy holidays.

[Manifest32f]

Happy holidays everyone! Thanks a lot CC3. You are right. I am from the boomer generation. However my parents were very advanced for their times (my dad was born in 1894, college educated, theosophist who was very close to many great leaders of his time and very respected by those who knew him). He encouraged us to study and work as well which was unusual for that time. Similarly we were very encouraging of our daughter (an only child) although we wanted her to have a professional career and be self sufficient since days were changing and we knew marriage was not a guarantee. She told us that her exBF and she had decided to have children and that was not an issue. However it was a long distance relationship and they both were very supportive and committed to each other (I had family who were very close to him and knew how much she meant to him). Her so-called friends at that time (now they are not around) tried to push her to get him to move near her knowing full well that he would not be able to do that ( he runs private business and has a # of employees depending on him). She realized that her demands were unrealistic and unreasonable but was too proud or embarrassed to accept her mistake and apologize. Now she realizes how foolish she was. I also suspect that she has him as her yardstick when she comes across someone and doesn’t feel they measure up to that. She is very particular and has OCD characteristics which makes it very difficult for her to compromise. That’s very sad because she’s an extremely sensitive person and highly emotional and affectionate to a fault and she misses having a family of her own. On the other hand, I don’t know how her BPD traits would create havoc if she was married and had a family. My husband is having a terrible time with her on his own and we are constantly trying to diffuse the verbal attacks from her. I am really sad and don’t know how to handle it at this time.
Thank you so much for all your support and encouraging words. Have a wonderful Christmas and a great New Year!!

[Titch]

Dear Manifest
I too have a 40year old BPD daughter. Baby boomer as they say. I also have 3 other daughters. I worked/work and encouraged all of my daughters to live the life they felt happiest. Loved all of them completely. My BPD daughter is the only one who is unable to hold down a job. Blames me for everything wrong in her life. She has now gone no contact (again) with me and I am finally happy with this after many many years of verbal abuse, false accusations, blame and financial manipulation. Her sisters have finally had enough of her consuming my life and being nasty about them. Seeing me in bits over worrying about her. Getting ill because of it.
Have you ever heard ‘less is more’. The less you do for her the more peace you will find and the more she will work out for herself. I love my BPD daughter with all my heart but I am no longer prepared to sacrifice the rest of my family for her and be the subject of her abuse and accusations. Any future contact will now be when I feel in a good head space and able to put in good boundaries to save mine and my husbands mental health.
I have stopped feeling ‘guilty, bad’ as I’ve done nothing wrong. She has to work through it herself. I hope you can step back and take care of you and your husband. The fact she holds down a job, tells me you did a lot right. She will get there in the end, but she is an adult and needs to do it for herself.  I hope this helps. Merry Christmas.

[Sasha77]

Titch,
I just have to say, your attitude is very refreshing… I wish I could get there! Please share anything you’ve done or thought about to get to that place!

[MarysLove]

Hello! Although my daughter is in her late 30’s, this is new to us. The behavior is not new - but the realization that her behavior is actually a mental health issue is very new. I can commiserate with you - maybe we can help each other wade through this devastating family situation. Our daughter is also single and has almost died 3 times (a head injury, cancer as a teen and heart failure from a genetic heart condition). Like your daughter, she is in a profession making very good money and is highly respected by her bosses and peers. While her friends have come and gone over the years, she currently has a great group of supportive friends. She, too, lives out of State, and traveling there has become difficult. I fly there if she asks but when she was in the hospital for her heart failure for weeks, she refuses to let me come. What I have recently realized is that my constant hopes that “this too shall pass” and the next stage in her life will be better, was unrealistic. She has had therapy for several years - yet all that seems to do is give her more reasons to blame us for everything wrong in her life. Over the years, I admit I have emotionally-distanced and just let her be in control of contacting us. If I called her, I was always interrupting her. Another recent revelation is that I should not take the bait of being to blame! This one us tough - I have a tendency to blame myself for everything as it is. But it’s important, at this stage in our lives, to focus on our health and what we can change now rather than carry the burden of their skewed version of our family. So, I’m right there with you, understand your devastation and hope we can life each other up.

[Manifest32f]

Hi Tisch, Sasha and MarysLove,
Thank you all very much. I am nervously awaiting my husband’s safe return. I asked him if he would like to come earlier but he said no. So I am on pins and needles here praying he gets back safe. He asked me to pray that he gets back safely. It was very shocking because he has never been that worried but he said this visit (first without me), he is experiencing how hurtful and taunting she can be (it was all the time aimed at me when I was there) & he never believed it when I told him earlier. I feel sorry for him. I don’t think anyone deserves to be treated like our children behave towards us, especially what all we have done for them all their life. I feel terrible that my daughter doesn’t have a partner or family but at the same time, I feel it’s not worth the struggle and stress a family can put her and others in such relationships go through. I wish she would move closer to us where we could support each other and she would have the support of the extended family who love and adore her. But she refuses and will not consider such a thing. She has not even seen some of them in nearly a decade. This is a much better place in every aspect and if only she would come…
She has changed jobs recently so she may not be able to get away for now. Maybe I am dreaming miracles would happen if she moves here, I don’t know. It’s also possible she is avoiding because her exBF is here although I haven’t seen him since I came back. Also I don’t move around in the same circle. I am hesitant to ask around about him because it would infuriate my daughter if word gets back to her. I can do without that.
I am moping around the apartment counting down …
It’s Christmas and soon New Year! All of you have a great time and prayers for a better year 2024! Take care and stay safe and healthy

[kells76]

Hi Manifest32f,

Thanks for the Christmas wishes! How did your day go -- anything you were able to do to take care of yourself?

It's interesting that your H both sees how your D has really treated you, and is also not coming home early. Are you able to be in contact with him daily? Do you think he's safe and will stick it out?

Is your D at work during weekdays but off on weekends and holidays? Maybe your H gets enough of a break when she is at work, for the setup to mostly be OK.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Manifest32f]

Hi Kells76 & friends, I am on my own here and see friends or relatives once in a while and doing ok. By nature, I am very good spending time on my own, doing things around the apartment, reading, going for walks and sometimes to concerts (it’s concert season and we have a lot of venues around here) and trying to keep myself occupied but our minds are so unique that it keeps going back to the core issues and I am struggling to stay sane

[Manifest32f]

Hi all! I’m sorry to bother you but I’m in desperate need of some guidance and advice. My husband is scheduled to come back next week, in 4-5 days and yesterday he had a very rough time with my D. She demanded he leave her house immediately and the 82 yr old immediately packed up his bags, booked a hotel, called a cab, lugged all the luggage to the cab with passers’ by assistance when she came out and asked him to come back inside. He didn’t want to make a scene, (it’s an apartment complex and many of them know us, having been there for nearly 3 decades) and said he went back in. He said she was continuously berating him, verbally abusing and accusing him culminating in ‘get out of my house’. She said this every day of his stay this time just like she did with me last time. He said he would still move out tomorrow when she steps out and leave a note for her. I asked him to call the airline to find out if he could change the tickets. He has already changed twice paying penalty. I don’t want him staying alone in a hotel room for 4-5 days in this weather (severe winter). Do you have any advice that I could give him? He looks very frail and I am very worried about him.
So sorry to keep bothering you all. You are my adopted family since we don’t want our family/friends know anything- like I said earlier, she is adored by many of them and she is extremely efficient in handling her relationship with everyone except us. That’s our cross to bear. Once we are gone, we want her to have the support system and feel free and safe to be around them without judgment.
Have a great New Year’s weekend everyone!!

[Notwendy]

I don't usually read this board but I did see your story and hope to add some advice. I have a mother with BPD and I don't stay with her when I visit. I used to stay with my parents but after one visit of verbal and emotional abuse, I decided not to. Being in their house - I was available for her to do this to. If I stayed somewhere else, I could walk out if she started that.

If talking about her behavior would work- it would have already. Your D is an adult. Boundaries are not about controlling someone else's behavior- it's about what we do about it. I decided that, if BPD mother starts being verbally abusive, I will not sit there and listen to it. I kept my suitcase packed ( I was still staying there at the time) and one time she started and I didn't say a word. I picked up my suitcase and walked out of the house and went back home early.

The boundary on how she speaks to you is up to you- your H has moved to a hotel to get away from this- that is a good thing. Although his plane ticket is in 4-5 days and there is a penalty to change it, he would also have the cost of 4-5 days in a hotel if he stays. I don't know the rates and so can't compare ( don't disclose where you are) but - either way, there's a financial cost and it may be a lower cost to change the ticket and just come home.

Once home, the two of you can reconsider how to manage visits if you still choose to do that. It does cost more to stay in a hotel and I consider that in my plans. When I do visit, I don't stay with my BPD mother. When someone lives alone, it is disruptive to have other people in the house- and even if someone doesn't have BPD- they are not used to all that company. So maybe your D needs the space too when you visit. You could also decide to not visit but I understand, she is your daughter and it's hard to decide that. I also still visit my mother - but with plans to have my own space- for myself and also for her.

[Manifest32f]

Hi NotWendy, thanks for the suggestion. For now, it appears my unBPDd has calmed down and accepted that my H is leaving in 3 days and most likely there will not be any more visits in the near future. She even called me to wish me happy new year after 10days of no contact and we had a decent conversation. I want to maintain that level of communication and no more. She was discussing her eagerness to join some classes (music and piano- she sings beautifully and plays the instrument self taught) and I offered to help out. I asked her to give me details about online payment and I think she was glad to hear that. Let me see. My H said he has packed up his bags and just waiting to catch the flight and get back home. We have also noticed that her mood fluctuations are worse when she has her period and during ovulation. Has anyone else noticed such behavior with your loved ones? I wonder whether the hormonal changes are aggravating their condition? Any thoughts? Thanks for your input and feedback. Take care and stay safe.