Holiday Reality

[Flora and Fauna]

How are the holidays at your house?

My 20-year-old daughter visits from college and doesn’t eat holiday dinners with us. She’s an only child, so it’s just the three of us, most years, unless other family visits. She comes down for gift exchange in the morning, then goes back to her room. At dinner time-she comes down, gets a plate of food, says thank you to us for preparing the meal and then eat upstairs in her room. She spends all day in her room, unless she has plans with friends. She’ll come out at times to interact with  her cat, in my presence. It’s like she’ll seek me out if the cat is around. She’ll pick him up and play with them in a way that’s hilarious, so I’m laughing she’s laughing and then she goes back to her room and shut the door and I may not See her again for hours.

Before her diagnosis, it was really challenging to accept this behavior. I wanted to make sense of it all so while I accepted that she had a mental illness…. the isolation, and the pushing us away were the hardest to accept. I wanted to make sense in my mind, if we had abused her or treated her badly or neglected her or invalidated her, it would make sense to us. Yet we’ve loved her, accepted her diagnosis, gone through DBT family therapy twice…  yet this is the result. Being around us, for her seems to be entirely uncomfortable without some sort of buffer. Whether it be the cat or even if she has a friend over, she interacts more with me if the friend is around.

She actually hasn’t eaten meals with us for years even before she went to college. She’s now a junior at a university two hours away from home, and doing well. I’d say she’s happy at college. She’s attending a place she really wanted to go, and just came back from a three month study abroad in London.

When she first came home for the holidays during her freshman year and isolated, it really hurt because I had this expectation that things would be different because she would have “missed us.”  It was the same her sophomore year.  This year before she returned home from abroad, I asked her how she felt about having Christmas dinner with us. She said that she prefers to eat in her room, and that when we gradually stopped having dinner as a family, (she didn’t want to eat with us in high school, but now she appears to have a memory of their being a decision to not eat as a family which is not accurate) that she found she enjoyed being alone and preferred her own  company her room. Ouch.

This has permeated wherever we go. She’s a theater major and has been fortunate to get the lead in several university productions. She excitedly tells us about it, shares the dates of performances and looks forward to us seeing her perform. When the play is over, we had to learn that other than allowing us to hug her and tell her she did a great job- she wants no further interaction. So no grabbing a coffee with her or a meal. Maybe if we’re lucky we get to walk back with her to her dorm. But it’s the oddest thing. It’s like she wants us in her life, but it must be on her terms and it must be at arms length.

Weeks ago, my husband and I travel to London to see her and her fellow classmates perform in their London production. Great fun for my husband and I, as we got to see her and we got to tour London. Nothing changed ….in that her being away for three months didn’t change the dynamic.  There still was no coffee afterwards or meal and still as little interaction as possible.

I understand that there is no rhyme or reason to mental illness. I have to remind myself that this is something that I cannot control. I can’t make her want to be around us. I can’t rationalize to her that I don’t understand why she pushes us away. Had we have been abusive , neglectful or overbearing,  it could make sense in my mind. We were none of those. I suppose we’re as flawed as anyone else would be, yet we’re just not guilty of those things. We’re not self-righteous or demanding with her …..we just have slowly realized that we cannot control how she thinks or feels or behaves so we just tacitly let it happen.

One thing that draws her out is performing. So I asked her how she’d feel about sharing a vignette from an upcoming play or an audition that she performed to get into a certain program. She’ll easily agree to do this. She’ll be in our presence to perform. So I tried to glean “togetherness”  time from that. But it seems to be the most that I can hope for. When she calls me from College, she’ll end the conversation with. I love you. So it’s difficult to grapple with this behavior.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[SaltyDawg]

Hello F&F,

   I have a D17, who is in early college (university) as a freshman.  Her behaviors are nearly identical to your daughters.  My D17 is not BPD, I don't see any of the symptoms of BPD (except self-harm) and mild disassociative symptoms while under extreme stress (not at a disordered level), even though she has communicated she thinks she is, she also thought she was a psychopath too, and I told her she wasn't.  However, she is diagnosed with anorexia nervosa however she is in full remission for nearly 3 years now.

   I have discussed this with my individual therapist, who trains other therapists, it is her opinion, as well as mine, that this is typical adolescent behavior to "exert their independence" from their parents with whom they perceive have issues. 

   I read back through some of your posts back to 2022, and this bit stuck out to me...

Warning: mentioning self-harm and suicidal ideation

[...]

She craves independence, so as hard as it was, I stepped back to let her manage her day to day life. I let her call me when she wanted to talk, I came to a show that she was a part of, when she invited me. I worried (a lot) of course, but kept that to myself, and didn’t want to have her feel pressured.

My D is the same way, I feel the same way about the pressure, as does my uBPDw does too.  However, from what I understand the 'fear of abandonment' must be present for a BPD diagnosis, and 'craving independence' is just the opposite of that which should exclude a BPD diagnosis.  Fear of abandonment in adolescents can manifest in many ways, including but not limited to fear of the dark, fear of not being near a parent, sleeping with a parent, wanting excessive physical contact (snuggles), among other similar manifestations of which 'craving independence' is not one - my son has those traits.

Self-harm is not unique to BPD, nor is suicidal ideation.  You also describe ticks (not associated with BPD, but other disorders), and substance use in other posts as well.

Has your DD been formally diagnosed with BPD?  If she has, have you sought a 2nd opinion?  DBT while originally intended for BPD, it is also useful for many other disorders as well.

I am getting the sense where your DD is severely limiting your contact with her seems to be the only issue of significance at the present moment (even though she was in hospital in previous years) would seem to be her asserting her independence from you [ouch, I know that hurts, but this is what my daughter does to me and my wife, and to a lesser extent her brother].

I know that this can be tiring, please be sure to do self-care whatever that might look like for you.

Take care.

SD

[Flora and Fauna]

Hello F&F,
I read back through some of your posts back to 2022, and this bit stuck out to me...

My D is the same way, I feel the same way about the pressure, as does my uBPDw does too.  However, from what I understand the 'fear of abandonment' must be present for a BPD diagnosis, and 'craving independence' is just the opposite of that which should exclude a BPD diagnosis.  Fear of abandonment in adolescents can manifest in many ways, including but not limited to fear of the dark, fear of not being near a parent, sleeping with a parent, wanting excessive physical contact (snuggles), among other similar manifestations of which 'craving independence' is not one - my son has those traits.

Self-harm is not unique to BPD, nor is suicidal ideation.  You also describe ticks (not associated with BPD, but other disorders), and substance use in other posts as well.

Has your DD been formally diagnosed with BPD?  If she has, have you sought a 2nd opinion?  DBT while originally intended for BPD, it is also useful for many other disorders as well.

I am getting the sense where your DD is severely limiting your contact with her seems to be the only issue of significance at the present moment (even though she was in hospital in previous years) would seem to be her asserting her independence from you [ouch, I know that hurts, but this is what my daughter does to me and my wife, and to a lesser extent her brother].

SD

Thank you for your kind words SD.  I also heard back from BPDstinks, but wasn't able to respond to the PM as their mailbox was full.

It was suggested that my DD had BPD when she was 14, and confirmed at 18 (as psychiatrists are supposedly "not allowed" to diagnose at early ages). DD exhibited many of the traits. She was terrified to sleep alone, and slept in a room with me until she was 14. She'd start off in her room, but end up in mine, so much so, that I placed a spare bed in my room (my husband and I luckily already slept apart as he's quite a snoring fellow). We tried all manner of things to help her, but finally just succumbed to the fact that we all needed sleep. She eventually began to stay in her room at 15, but then she willed herself to stay awake most of the night due to her fears. Not a good time.  Still suffers from insomnia from time to time.

She tends to be all or nothing...for example, one "bad thing," that happens in a day, can render the whole day a bad day in her mind. Example: earlier this year, she and a close friend were driving to the beach, but took a wrong term, and ended up in a private beach where they could not stay. Friend was fine simply re-orienting themselves in the quest to find the right beach. Yet DD called and told me, "we went to the wrong beach...this whole days sucks, I just want to slit my wrists and die."  Not exactly a healthy reaction to taking the wrong directions.

I think that while so many things about BPD can be across the board for many, there will still be nuances in personality. I do think you're right that her "extreme" choices of independence/isolation can be the last vestiges of adolescence (she turned 20 in Aug). I like to think that in time it can become better. One happy memory to share: when I flew to London with her - to initially get her set-up for her semester abroad, at one point she leaned into me, and placed her feet in my lap on the plane. It was such a light-hearted moment. She can be funny and witty, and I crave those times. So I appreciate being able to share my angst about the long-lasting other moments that are sadder, on this site. I  appreciate the release, of being able to safely share my thoughts, on this site. I'm also trying to stay away from social media and it's perfect-looking families, with parents who don't appear to have had an ounce of the grief that we all know to well.

Take care, and I wish you peace.

The self-harm has been difficult for her to overcome, and I suspect she still has bouts of it. I suspect her interest in getting tattoos is a way to "scratch that itch." Having tics (Tourette's) has nothing of course to do with BPD, just a nice "joke" that life played on her.

Feelings of emptiness and dissociative behavior are prevalent, and managing depression have been ongoing issues. We were fortunate that she's worked with amazing doctors, from an early age, so she's quite self-aware, and understands her "demons."

I was lamenting about the ache of wanting a closer relationship with her. When she comes out of her shell and engages with me, it's wonderful, though fleeting. I don't want to believe that I ever forget that she has BPD, but she's doing well, a so wish those stretches of time would stay.

[SaltyDawg]

F&F,

   Thank you for the clarification, what you shared makes sense with the BPD diagnosis.  It sounds like your D20 is doing well considering everything she has been through.

   While my D17 she has comorbid issues, most of which are well controlled (she was in hospital for months and saw all kinds of mental health therapists, psychiatrists and psychologists about her AN on a similar spectrum, yet different as your own D20.

   Even though my daughter told my wife and I that she did not listen to them - circumstantial evidence clearly indicates otherwise as I see her actively using the tools that they talked about, in addition to the ones that I am modeling for her.  Likewise I also believe that while our D17 blows us off, she is also listening, weighing our opinions and actually listens, even though it doesn't seem that way.  I also know my daughter absolutely hates me for 'imprisoning her' in grippy sock jail, but it literally saved her life as she was weeks, perhaps months away from starving herself to death.

   I feel our relationship has gotten better with time, as she sees other people having their own mental health challenges.  From what I have observed, there is a good chance, if and when once your D has her own children sometime in the future, she may grow closer to you.

   I am also actively validating my D's feelings, and encouraging my wife to do the same as well through my example.  As my D has expressed to both me and my uBPDw that we are 'toxic' to her [ouch].  So, my goal is to make myself less toxic from her perspective, and my wife is copying my lead on this.  My D has shifted her goal when she has turned 18 from NC to LC, and hopefully by the time she is 18 that will have changed again.  I'm fine with LC, it limits the drama, yet we can show her that we care.  We also use financial incentives for doing things together - we pay for dinner nights out; however, if she goes it alone, she has to pay from her paycheck as my daughter has the OCPD trait of being miserly with her money, much like my wife's comorbidity.  I also have a similar trait of being frugal (not quite as disordered as miserly).

   Regarding the self-harm.  Strongly encourage your D to "Text SHOUT to 85258" (in the UK, except Ireland), especially late at night when most are sleeping, that is a crisis text line with trained crisis counselors to talk to your daughter in helping her get to a better place so she is less likely to self-harm.

   Be sure to take time for yourself, and do some self-care.

   Take care.

SD