Break up

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I’m trying SD, I just need to understand I trauma bonded to someone with a mental disorder. The anger comes and goes into despair at times when I run out of things to do.

I never had these free moments for 12 years as any free time was spent literally firefighting her impulses, rages or accusations. So free time just reminds me of her absence in my life.

I hear you BrokenMind.  Since you have started therapy, I would suggest triaging what is most impactful for you the week prior to your scheduled therapy, and work on that particular topic with your therapist.  From what you are sharing here, it sounds like you might want to focus on 'trauma bonding' and work on that first with the therapist, as it seems to have the greatest hold on you were you are continually ruminating on the relationship.  Trauma bonding is very similar to Stockholm Syndrome.

It is unfortunate SD that this is how they think. It’s even more unfortunate that I put myself through this thinking I could fix it. I just feel like a complete idiot for not ending it in the first year after the first 100 red flags and went through hell for another 11 years for a love that never even existed.

I have completed 23 years, and I am now in the 24th year, and counting...  The first symptom that occurred that I recognized as a was 2 weeks after my honeymoon ended, or 5 weeks after we got married was her first suicide attempt on May 31st 2003, it was surreal, like a bad joke, and she was normal again.  I had no f**king clue as to what had happened, and then a couple hours later she was completely 'normal' again.  I remained completely in the dark, when the relationship crashed on the day we found out we were pregnant with our first child.  In retrospect, she knew at that moment, she had me hook, line, and sinker, so she no longer had to put in the effort to please me anymore, and changed, I felt a 'bait and switch' on each of the red flags I recognized.  However, it wasn't until June of 2022, it took a therapist all of 40 minutes to practically blurt out "BPD" and then, and only then was I made aware of this thing called 'borderline'.  I too felt like an idiot; however, I was uneducated on BPD, until 2022, I really didn't come to terms with it until last year, and now I have a pretty good grasp on what it is, and have figured out what is effective and what is not effective in managing my wife's condition within the construct of our family.

I know you feel like an 'idiot' -  you are not an idiot.  If you are anything like me, you were just not educated on this, as the school system focuses on obesity and bullying as both are more prevalent than borderlines.  Unless you are taking a psychology class, this stuff isn't taught in schools, so how are we to know?  It is not your fault, as you didn't cause this, and you cannot control it, and you definitely cannot fix it.

The 'love' likely did exist; however, it was all-in and very different from what we would recognize love as, as they typically wear their emotions on their sleeve, both good and bad ones.  In the beginning, most likely, in the form of love bombing, they expressed their love for you, the only way they knew how, by mirroring your perceived wants in order to please you, and to keep you from abandoning them by presenting a modified version of themselves to keep you attracted to them.  On the flip side of the coin, when they turn against you, it is just the opposite, where they will hate on you worse than you would do to an enemy.  It is pure passion, both in the good and bad sense - black/white thinking. It could be more accurately described as limerence rather than love - the honeymoon phase of a relationship.

I too thought I could 'fix it' and my wife actually expected me to fix it.  I have tried, and failed, as only she can be the one who actually fixes it.  That said, I can push and nudge my wife to go in a direction that is more conducive to fixing her own issues in a persuasive (manipulative) manner, and that is where our couple's therapist comes in.  I highlight one issue a week, and call attention to it in order to work on it.

I am already emotionally detaching from my wife, and keeping myself at a 'safer' distance, that is still too close for comfort, as I need to keep the peace for the sake of our children.  I am also trying to help my wife, by highlighting, and shining a spotlight on the 'issue of the week' with the couple's therapist to work on that.  Hopefully I don't have to detach fully, as I am too addicted to her within the trauma bond I have with her; however, I have learned how to manage it before it consumed me.

Right now you can do a lot more healing that I can, as you are no longer together.  However, I do not have that luxury, as I am still in the thick of things with my pwBPD in order to protect our children.

I wish you the best of luck in your recovery.  Do plenty of self-care whatever that might look like for you, this includes therapy.

Take care.

SD

[SaltyDawg]

I’m trying SD, I just need to understand I trauma bonded to someone with a mental disorder. The anger comes and goes into despair at times when I run out of things to do.

I never had these free moments for 12 years as any free time was spent literally firefighting her impulses, rages or accusations. So free time just reminds me of her absence in my life.

I hear you BrokenMind.  Since you have started therapy, I would suggest triaging what is most impactful for you the week prior to your scheduled therapy, and work on that particular topic with your therapist.  From what you are sharing here, it sounds like you might want to focus on 'trauma bonding' and work on that first with the therapist, as it seems to have the greatest hold on you were you are continually ruminating on the relationship.  Trauma bonding is very similar to Stockholm Syndrome.

It is unfortunate SD that this is how they think. It’s even more unfortunate that I put myself through this thinking I could fix it. I just feel like a complete idiot for not ending it in the first year after the first 100 red flags and went through hell for another 11 years for a love that never even existed.

I have completed 23 years, and I am now in the 24th year, and counting...  The first symptom that occurred that I recognized as a was 2 weeks after my honeymoon ended, or 5 weeks after we got married was her first suicide attempt on May 31st 2003, it was surreal, like a bad joke, and she was normal again.  I had no f**king clue as to what had happened, and then a couple hours later she was completely 'normal' again.  I remained completely in the dark, when the relationship crashed on the day we found out we were pregnant with our first child.  In retrospect, she knew at that moment, she had me hook, line, and sinker, so she no longer had to put in the effort to please me anymore, and changed, I felt a 'bait and switch' on each of the red flags I recognized.  However, it wasn't until June of 2022, it took a therapist all of 40 minutes to practically blurt out "BPD" and then, and only then was I made aware of this thing called 'borderline'.  I too felt like an idiot; however, I was uneducated on BPD, until 2022, I really didn't come to terms with it until last year, and now I have a pretty good grasp on what it is, and have figured out what is effective and what is not effective in managing my wife's condition within the construct of our family.

I know you feel like an 'idiot' -  you are not an idiot.  If you are anything like me, you were just not educated on this, as the school system focuses on obesity and bullying as both are more prevalent than borderlines.  Unless you are taking a psychology class, this stuff isn't taught in schools, so how are we to know?  It is not your fault, as you didn't cause this, and you cannot control it, and you definitely cannot fix it.

The 'love' likely did exist; however, it was all-in and very different from what we would recognize love as, as they typically wear their emotions on their sleeve, both good and bad ones.  In the beginning, most likely, in the form of love bombing, they expressed their love for you, the only way they knew how, by mirroring your perceived wants in order to please you, and to keep you from abandoning them by presenting a modified version of themselves to keep you attracted to them.  On the flip side of the coin, when they turn against you, it is just the opposite, where they will hate on you worse than you would do to an enemy.  It is pure passion, both in the good and bad sense - black/white thinking. It could be more accurately described as limerence rather than love - the honeymoon phase of a relationship.

I too thought I could 'fix it' and my wife actually expected me to fix it.  I have tried, and failed, as only she can be the one who actually fixes it.  That said, I can push and nudge my wife to go in a direction that is more conducive to fixing her own issues in a persuasive (manipulative) manner, and that is where our couple's therapist comes in.  I highlight one issue a week, and call attention to it in order to work on it.

I am already emotionally detaching from my wife, and keeping myself at a 'safer' distance, that is still too close for comfort, as I need to keep the peace for the sake of our children.  I am also trying to help my wife, by highlighting, and shining a spotlight on the 'issue of the week' with the couple's therapist to work on that.  Hopefully I don't have to detach fully, as I am too addicted to her within the trauma bond I have with her; however, I have learned how to manage it before it consumed me.

Right now you can do a lot more healing that I can, as you are no longer together.  However, I do not have that luxury, as I am still in the thick of things with my pwBPD in order to protect our children.

I wish you the best of luck in your recovery.  Do plenty of self-care whatever that might look like for you, this includes therapy.

Take care.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Hey SD,

You have helped me a lot on here also, and I am very grateful for that you should now.

I was not aware that you were in a similar situation to mine regarding having a child suddenly that kind of keeps the bond. I am to this day still not sure if this in my situation was a way to keep me in the r/s.

Also you are Living together and through many years. Living together must really also make things very difficult, besides the children.

After the 5-6 months that I was in the r/s, I went NC for over a month. Which was very tough on both me and her. Only to try and come back for another round after educating myself. Thinking that I now have the tools to work on this. So I can, not fix her but live with it, by validating her etc. However, the paranoid thinking, explaining to me all the time what is wrong with me and her keep poking me on admitting the “lies”, so as to admit her truth. This made me doubt myself, and I had No tools for this. I seriously Think I Would lose my sanity, if I stayed long enough. If she tells me her flexed truth enough times, I Would end up believing her I think. And she keep doing this not understanding why I keep lying! Because I don’t validate the invalid.

I have memorized the three c’s now. Didn’t cause it, can’t control it, can’t cure it. And I live by the 3 g’s now. Get out of the way, get off their back, get on with your life. God willing.

I really hope things will work out for you and the TS. I was lucky to find out about the disorder so soon, when I read how many years people in here including you guys, have been a part of it. Some extremes luckily made me Google things. Is it really possible for someone to live happily in a romantic r/s with someone like this?

[EyesUp]

@BrokenMind

I've been following your thread and see that you've received strong inputs from SD and AM.

I have a very basic suggestion that might help to shift your attention in a new direction: physical activity.

Get out of the house.  Go for a run.  If you can't or don't run, go for a walk.  A long, rigorous walk.  Maybe a hike.

Wherever you live, find a state park, a beach, anywhere really - just go there and start walking. 

Whatever your fitness level may be, go long enough to get tired.  Ideally, exhausted.

While walking, you will almost certainly be accompanied by the internal dialog that you know so well - turning over all the details, ruminating, rehashing things, wondering about the kid, resenting lost time, etc.  Try to interrupt this pattern as you're walking.  When you find yourself doing this, take a moment to look around.  What do you see?  Hopefully you live someplace where you can see the landscape, or see something new.  Take it in.  Take a picture.

Keep doing this.  Repeat the process.

I predict a couple of thing will happen.

1) you're going to sleep better
2) eventually, you'll start to train your brain to change the channel
3) eventually, in time, you might just stay on a new channel and stop tuning in to the old one

There's a link between physical and mental health, and there is no downside to physical health.  However there are major upsides.  Get some fresh air and some physical activity... do this enough, and you might be amazed as you start to feel better...

In my experience, cycling makes all the difference.  But it can be anything.  If you don't have a good place to run or walk or hike, consider joining a gym.  If you can't join a gym, look up bodyweight exercises you can do with a chair at home - and do them.  If you hate these types of exercises, consider yoga.

Hope this helps.

[SaltyDawg]

I was not aware that you were in a similar situation to mine regarding having a child suddenly that kind of keeps the bond. I am to this day still not sure if this in my situation was a way to keep me in the r/s.

Also you are Living together and through many years. Living together must really also make things very difficult, besides the children.

Usually a pwBPD will change in a romantic relationship when one of the following happens (based on what I have read, and experienced):

  You become 'exclusive' (committed to one another)
  You move in
  You become 'engaged'
  You get 'married'
  You have a child together.

For my wife, whom I am still with, it was shortly after getting married, when the first major red flags started to occur, and as soon as we found out we were pregnant, she went all out on the change.

Looking back, I should have backed out as soon as she had her first manipulative suicide gesture occurred 2 weeks after our honeymoon ended - but I was not aware of BPD.

Previously, with the previous uBPD/uNPD/+exgf it was when I 'moved in' with her.  Fotunately, she had her red flags before we tied the knot, and we did not have children together, so it was comparatively easy to ghost her, when I figured out I was in deep sh!t with her.  Unfortunately, I did not figure this out until years after I had children with my wife, who was a much higher functioning borderline than the exgf.

The exgf was pushing very hard to get engaged; however, I did get 'cold feet' as I did recognize how messed up she was - that was not the case with my wife.

After the 5-6 months that I was in the r/s, I went NC for over a month. Which was very tough on both me and her. Only to try and come back for another round after educating myself. Thinking that I now have the tools to work on this. So I can, not fix her but live with it, by validating her etc. However, the paranoid thinking, explaining to me all the time what is wrong with me and her keep poking me on admitting the “lies”, so as to admit her truth. This made me doubt myself, and I had No tools for this. I seriously Think I Would lose my sanity, if I stayed long enough. If she tells me her flexed truth enough times, I Would end up believing her I think. And she keep doing this not understanding why I keep lying! Because I don’t validate the invalid

Simply put, if I did not have children, it would be a 'no brainer' for me to leave the situation; however, I cannot do that to my children.

So, in order to make the best of a bad situation, I have forced myself to learn how to manage a borderline personality with firm boundaries, and communication skills that focus on empathy.  I used to apologize to my wife for her behaviors as my own behaviors (transference and projection) - I learned the hard way, this does not work, and only makes the situation worse.  Now, I will only apologize for making my wife 'feel that way'; however, I have learned never to validate the invalid.

I have memorized the three c’s now. Didn’t cause it, can’t control it, can’t cure it. And I live by the 3 g’s now. Get out of the way, get off their back, get on with your life. God willing.

I agree with you on that, I noticed you dropped 2 of the "G's" of the 5-G's - I am curious as to why?

"Get off their back, Get out of their way, Give them to God, Get to a meeting, Get on with your life."

I really hope things will work out for you and the TS. I was lucky to find out about the disorder so soon, when I read how many years people in here including you guys, have been a part of it. Some extremes luckily made me Google things. Is it really possible for someone to live happily in a romantic r/s with someone like this?

I am my own worst enemy as I am still in it, and I am maneuvering to give my children the best shot at life with minimized issues of their own.  I have learned to use google as well, it is a very good tool, with references to a lot of material on YouTube and other websites; however, unless you know what you are looking for, one often cannot find it.

As to your question if it is possible for someone to live happily in a romantic relationship with someone like this?  I would like to think so; however, the amount of work you have to put into the relationship is extreme, and in my opinion may not be worth it (as I haven't gotten to that point yet).  Am I aware of any success stories, yes I am, but they are few and far between, and it also depends on what you define as success.

If success is defined as a significant improvement of living conditions - then, yes, my story can be defined as a success.

If success is defined as being 'happy' being in a relationship with a pwBPD - I don't think this is possible, as she would have to revert to her love bombing phase, and stay there.  Heck I would even be happy with a fraction of the love bombing; however, I do not foresee that happening for any length of time.

If success is defined as the pwBPD being in remission, showing 2 or fewer symptoms of being BPD, I know of others who meet this qualification; however, my wife does not.

The NIH, has articles that define 'remission' - a more recent article defines remission as having displayed 1 or fewer symptoms for 2 months or more (I call this preliminary remission), and another article defines remission as displaying 2 or fewer symptoms for no less than 2 years (I call this full remission).  My wife has met neither condition of remission; however, I do understand it is possible.

It is my desire, for my wife to be in 'remission' of her symptoms, as she is generally a good person, when she is emotionally regulated.  However, her episodes have driven a wedge between us, and I am unsure if a sufficient amount of damage can be repaired to the point of having a good romantic relationship.

I can only hope and pray that this will happen with my wife.

Take care.

SD

[SaltyDawg]

EyesUp has an excellent idea with physical activity, I do cycling myself, it is my favorite form of self-care, and is part of my go-to for self-care, that is why I encourage you and others to do self-care.

Take care with self-care.

[Anonymous_male]

Hey guys, sorry don’t mean to HJ your thread @BrokenMind, there were just things SD mentioned that hit me.

SD, regarding change, I see what you are saying. I noticed it for sure when she got pregnant. This is where red flags really started to occur.

I can so much relate to this as my exgf upwBPD is also high functioning.

I understand in regards to the children. You could say in my case the child is not born yet, so measures can be planned ahead.

Those 2 G’s you add were actually not in my version of the “how to stop walking on eggshells” v3 of my book that I recently read. I just checked. But thanks for bringing them to my attention (you may have mentioned them to me before). With the “go to a meeting” I assume ACA and CoDa is meant here. I have joined many ACA meetings but a few years ago now. Maybe I should revisit them.

Thanks for your definitions of success. So impressively detailed. I think in my case she would have to work on herself with therapy, but I see her to be the petulant pwBPD type, so there is complete denial and projection.

I can understand that all these years of types of abuse you have had to tolerate would be difficult to repair.

[Brokenmind]

Hi all

Thank you everyone for posting.

I haven’t posted as I was in a real bad way these last 5 days. Basically I’ve gotten angry that she is still trying to use me. She has been in contact with this guy from the states, we live in UK. They have been sending flirty messages on Facebook for 5 years.

I deactivated my Facebook 10 years ago when she got too jealous over girls just commenting normally on my page. But I reactivated it and saw it all.

It made me feel physically sick. Now I know why she wanted so much money.

She has basically left her son at his Nans house while she has flown to be with this guy who is married with 2 kids. Her son managed to find my number of some old email and contacted me.

He doesn’t know his Nan seen her once a year only and not consistently. He doesn’t want to be there but I can’t get him because he is 15 and not mine. I asked the to speak to the Nan and she agreed to let him call me while he’s there. My heart is literally bleeding for him he has had this his whole life. I remember when she went away with her brother and her son was 5 and we waited for her arrival back he was so excited as she never been away before; only to be completely blanked as she stormed past us because she was angry with the trip. The way her son looked up at me in confusion still breaks my heart.

So I’m angry, upset and can’t calm down and that’s just regarding what she did to her own son.

Never mind she actually tricked me to help pay for her way to this guy, never mind that I read sexting  in public view between them.

 I’m sorry but this is beyond BPD.

I had a lot of lows during the 12 years, the 2 times I caught her cheating, the complete parentification of me, the massive rages and suicidal threats ; but each time I never wanted to leave her.

This time I actually do. It’s almost as if I’ve stopped feeling sorry for myself and actually want to care for myself. I will stop focusing on her 24 hours a day.

It’s going to take time I know that to. How much time depends on me. I haven’t got long left on this planet and I’ll be danned if I’m going to waste anymore time on wanting to be with someone who wasn’t capable of loving anyone in a healthy way. She’s not my problem anymore

I told her son that he reached 16 this year. And if he wants me in his life I will be waiting.

Addressing your replies which again I thank everyone for:

SD
Thanks my friend for all your time. I know you must get tired of hearing me say that! 24 years and your still ticking makes you a survivor my friend. Thank you for confirming I’m not an “idiot”. Like insanely definitely lemon touch via this or other forums I see you one but for me thanks (last one promise)

EyesUp
I hear what you are saying I was never a physical exercise person (owing to my amazing metabolism) but I have started. It’s a bit hit and miss as sometimes I feel good but other times especially if I struggle I feel weak and pathetic.

AM
No don’t apologise it was good to read the interactions. We are all suffering on here in one way or another: Like I told SD I will keep an update every so often and I will look at other chats and hopefully can chime in with some of my own experience or advice. We just need to keep working on ourselves no one should control how we feel.



.

[Brokenmind]

Oops didn’t check my post

SD I said Like insanely definitely lemon touch via this or other forums I see you one but for me thanks (last one promise)

Which was meant as

Like I said I will definitely stay in touch via this or other forums I see you on but again thanks (last one promise).

[Anonymous_male]

BrokenMind, this sounds really terrible. I can only imagine how these things must make you feel.

I can’t help thinking of these wise words, that deserve another mention:

Get off their back, Get out of their way, Give them to God, Get to a meeting, Get on with your Life.

Today I chose NC again and hope to keep it for as Long as possible. I am hit by abuse in a different way, to me just as intolerable.

I hope that you will do what is best for you at this moment. You deserve to be treated right. We all do. In my case “Give them to God” feels right. I can do no more for her, total denial. I wish her the best, but God must take over now. I will tolerate the abuse no longer. It sounds like you are maybe thinking the same. Perhaps you can use this difficult time, wanting to take Care of yourself and put it to good use. I hope you will take Care of yourself.

Thanks for the mention and yes, let’s support each other as best we can in these difficult situations that we are all in.

[SaltyDawg]

I understand in regards to the children. You could say in my case the child is not born yet, so measures can be planned ahead.

Those 2 G’s you add were actually not in my version of the “how to stop walking on eggshells” v3 of my book that I recently read. I just checked. But thanks for bringing them to my attention (you may have mentioned them to me before). With the “go to a meeting” I assume ACA and CoDa is meant here. I have joined many ACA meetings but a few years ago now. Maybe I should revisit them.

Thanks for your definitions of success. So impressively detailed. I think in my case she would have to work on herself with therapy, but I see her to be the petulant pwBPD type, so there is complete denial and projection.

I can understand that all these years of types of abuse you have had to tolerate would be difficult to repair.

AM,

Regarding your unborn child, do plan, do seek out what your legal options and obligations are in co-parenting, this will vary from location to location, and make sure your rights are not trampled on.

The 5-G's are from 12-step programs, and there are many different 12-step programs available.

My wife was also in complete denial with projection and transference; however, she could see some of the facts, and with a whole lot of therapy, she has very slowly come around to see some of her contribution to the dynamic, but is still in a whole lot of denial, and I am every so slowly working at within couple's therapy on this.  For your pwBPD, it will likely require a life event where she will hit her bottom in order to realize this.

I have already forgiven my wife for the abuse she has done; however, I will not forget - she wants me to forget it ever happened, I cannot forget something this impactful - the best I can do is not bring it up again (unless she chooses to do so or by doing similar behavior, and then I will focus on the present infraction, not the past ones).  She also says she does not feel safe with me, so our relationship has become a situationship and is going nowhere.  I am in it for the kids right now.  If she wants to be part of it, it will require her to make some tough changes in her perceptions of her feelings.

I’m sorry but this is beyond BPD.

I had a lot of lows during the 12 years, the 2 times I caught her cheating, the complete parentification of me, the massive rages and suicidal threats ; but each time I never wanted to leave her.

This time I actually do. It’s almost as if I’ve stopped feeling sorry for myself and actually want to care for myself. I will stop focusing on her 24 hours a day.

It’s going to take time I know that to. How much time depends on me. I haven’t got long left on this planet and I’ll be damned if I’m going to waste anymore time on wanting to be with someone who wasn’t capable of loving anyone in a healthy way. She’s not my problem anymore

I told her son that he reached 16 this year. And if he wants me in his life I will be waiting.

BrokenMind,

That sounds absolutely awful, that your pwBPD, used your kindness to fund the affair that she used to hurt you.

I see that you care for your pwBPD's S15 very much, and as soon as he is 16 (or whatever age it is in the UK) where he can legally run away from home to be with you, as that sounds like a very toxic relationship he is in with his mum, and it is good that you are there for her S15, when she is not emotionally and/or physically present for him.

Unfortunately, this kind of behavior is often BPD (not all BPD are like this; however, there are enough of them that do this, I'd say about half of them do this based on what I have read and observed), where they will cheat on their primary partner with another, when you are painted black.  Yet they keep you close enough for you to care for them - my previous pwBPD/NPD/+exgf did this, and I ghosted her as soon as I figured out this was a pattern when she did this the 2nd time.

The parentification that you mentioned of yourself, could that apply to her son, where her son has become her caretaker - likewise, you have also become her caretaker and you are treating her like your child, I am assuming that you are referring to this?  Am I understanding you?

When you said, "It’s almost as if I’ve stopped feeling sorry for myself and actually want to care for myself. I will stop focusing on her 24 hours a day."  I believe that you are in the beginning stages of detaching.  I too am at a similar point, where I do not care if the relationship continues or not.  If she chooses to leave, I will not fight for her to stay.

SD
Thanks my friend for all your time. I know you must get tired of hearing me say that! 24 years and your still ticking makes you a survivor my friend. Thank you for confirming I’m not an “idiot”. Like I said I will definitely stay in touch via this or other forums I see you on but again thanks (last one promise).

You don't have to make this one the last one, please do check in from time to time, and if you find yourself in crisis again.  I am surviving, but not thriving, like you I do not want to waste any more time than I have to on this.  I will do it for as long as the children are under the same roof, once they are gone, I will also make myself be gone as well.

In my case “Give them to God” feels right. I can do no more for her, total denial. I wish her the best, but God must take over now. I will tolerate the abuse no longer. It sounds like you are maybe thinking the same. Perhaps you can use this difficult time, wanting to take Care of yourself and put it to good use. I hope you will take Care of yourself.

Thanks for the mention and yes, let’s support each other as best we can in these difficult situations that we are all in.

AM,

I agree to 'Give them to God' does feel right, as we cannot fix them.  I too have set boundaries on the simple yet encompassing mantra of "All Abuse Must Stop".

We are here for each other, in our respective recovery journeys wherever that might be for each one of us - it is a process that will take each of us a different amount of time to come to terms with.  It is very comforting to know that we have others who are unfortunate enough to be in similar situations, so we know that we are not alone in feeling this way. 

I wish you, AM, BM, and whomever is silent in reading this where it resonates for you there is a way forward, and you are not alone in this struggle.

Take care.

SD

[Brokenmind]

Hi SD

Yes that’s exactly what I meant. It wasn’t like a relationship of a couple. During tantrums I felt like it was her Father not a partner. You know when you see the Father trying to calm down the tantrum and the child acts out even more.

I was just her caretaker in everything in her life. It was the same for her son. She treated him like a sibling rather than a son. Tit for tat arguments, he says something she say something worse etc. She even inserted herself with his friends and would get involved.

I honestly don’t feel like I’m detaching. I know I would never go back to her even if she did want that which she doesn’t. But I can’t stop going through that rollercoaster feeling still.

I still hyperventilate and get panic attacks nearly 5-6times a day. It’s horrible as sometimes I hide myself away just so I can cry uncontrollably and then feel pathetic afterwards.

NC I know will help it’s just that silence, trauma and  emptiness left by her absence is too much to deal with.

My GP and therapist have prescribed me a beta blocker to slow my heart rate. This is on top of ten anti depressants I’m taking. I just feel like I’m becoming a zombie and scared I will be on these for life

Regarding my ex the only thing that gets me and I feel like a bad man for even thinking this. I feel like she has learnt from all her past mistakes and won’t be like this with her new partner and he will get all the goodness that I saw in her and none of the bad.

I feel guilty for even hoping she won’t change now she is not with me. Or that her new partner will bring the best of her out and none of the bad.

I sometimes think that maybe I’m the one with the disorder now. Why else am I reacting the way she used to? I’m talking about looking up her Facebook page. Thinking of ways to prompt her to contact me, fantasising about winning the lottery and rubbing it in her face. Absolutely ridiculous thoughts which make feel like less of a man.

My ex used to rally belittle peoples appearances and sometimes when I meet people I can her voice in my head saying those same things. How is that normal for me to do that? It’s like I see life through her lens only and not my own. I never think like that about other people. If anything I have empathy but lately I just see things how she would have. Is that normal.

My therapist told me she doesn’t think I have severe codependency issues. But my people pleasing and my complete lack of self love is quite severe and has led to all my difficulties in not just relationships but with every other aspect of my life.

I would starve to feed another. I would give my last pound (dollar) if someone I love or care for needed it. I would gladly drive a friend to the airport and insist on no petrol money even if it meant I would struggle.

Even my achievements in life were for others. I passed my degree in accounts and became a chartered accountant (hate accounts but its what my parents wanted), I left my gf who I was in healthy loving relationship because my family would accept her because of her religion, I would spend hours on unpaid overtime because I was asked for a favour, if o wanted to go to a restaurant or go out with friends I would just agree even if I hated it.

I’m too agreeable, completely lack self love, low self esteem and confidence in women.

Right now I don’t want to even think about her. But everything in my life is as a result of her.

Some days I’m strong like if you read my last post. Then I get days like today where I’m such a mess and hate myself.

If I was normal I would not have put up with it in the first place.

[Brokenmind]

Ok I’m getting ridiculously worse.

I had a disturbing dream in the morning of her with a man. I woke up at 1am and since then I’m having non stop panic attacks. I was tempted to go to A&E hospital but I’m scared of what they will say. I feel exhausted but I can’t sleep.

Why is this happening? I thought I had a lid on this only yesterday. This is just too painful. All the daily hurt for 12 years and taking every kind of abuse, to her using me to go to another man as if I didn’t even exist? I would have preferred if she falsely accused me and I went to jail for 12 years and waste my life that way At least I would come out with the dignity and my sanity.

I’m really trying to be strong but this is literally taken my will to live to rebuild. Right now I try to go to sleep and dread the next day.

[Anonymous_male]

Hey BM,

Hang in there. If I may say so it is 12 years, which is a very Long time that this women has been your compass. I can understand why you are feeling these feelings. With the trauma Bond it is much worse than breaking up a normal r/s. Which too Would be hard after so Long.

I too am feeling this rollercoaster ride where I feel good and confident one day and different the next. I try to hold on to the decision I have made and believe what I have decided on a good day.

I Would advise that you like I did write all the reasons why this r/s is bad for you down on a note on your phone and look at it each time you need to.

Sleep works for me and the next morning it is often better, maybe just a little better.

I would use hospitals, my therapist, friends. Everything I could think of that is not going back. And I know we can feel like going back still. But it is the trauma bond. In our wise mind, we know that we DO NOT deserve this.

Is there anything you can do to try and pass time. Time is your friend. Hobby’s? (I play guitar). Classes you can take (I just began attending a music class), gym, extra work. Maybe living with a friend for a while.

After each week it will be a little better and in the end you will be back and top and eventually you Will end up in a better situation. Because we learn and grow. Growth = pain.

I know it is hard,  and I really hope you find a way to try and cope.

[SaltyDawg]

Yes that’s exactly what I meant. It wasn’t like a relationship of a couple. During tantrums I felt like it was her Father not a partner. You know when you see the Father trying to calm down the tantrum and the child acts out even more.

I can see that, I have to behave the same way.  14 months ago, when I started to deal with her tantrums, my wife even commented to me, "why are you treating me like a child" and I responded "because you are behaving like one" - probably not my finer moments in couple's communication; however, it did get my point across.

I was just her caretaker in everything in her life. It was the same for her son. She treated him like a sibling rather than a son. Tit for tat arguments, he says something she say something worse etc. She even inserted herself with his friends and would get involved.

My uBPDw, for the most part is a bit different here.  She will try to treat our children like her friends; however, that doesn't work.  She would sleep with each one of them frequently through their tween years.  Almost emotionally incestuous.

I honestly don’t feel like I’m detaching. I know I would never go back to her even if she did want that which she doesn’t. But I can’t stop going through that rollercoaster feeling still.

When you said, "It’s almost as if I’ve stopped feeling sorry for myself and actually want to care for myself. I will stop focusing on her 24 hours a day."

Especially the stop focusing on her 24 hours a day - this is a small sign that you are starting the detaching process, even if it for 23 hours you are focusing on her, as long as this number gets smaller and smaller, you are detaching from her.

It may not feel like it; however, from what you have described you are...  You will have lapses, some good days, and other days that are downright really bad.

I still hyperventilate and get panic attacks nearly 5-6times a day. It’s horrible as sometimes I hide myself away just so I can cry uncontrollably and then feel pathetic afterwards.

Panic attacks is a symptom of (c)PTSD - I am wondering if you have been evaluated for this?

NC I know will help it’s just that silence, trauma and  emptiness left by her absence is too much to deal with.

NC will naturally create emptiness, and right now this can seem overwhelming to you.  I am wondering if you have any coping mechanisms, specifically ones with distractions to help you compensate for this emptiness?

My GP and therapist have prescribed me a beta blocker to slow my heart rate. This is on top of ten anti depressants I’m taking. I just feel like I’m becoming a zombie and scared I will be on these for life

TEN (10) anti-depressants, is a lot, after 2-3 it is hard to tell how they will interact with each other - I am wondering if you can talk to your pharmacist/chemist on this, and I can see that you are understandably scared.

Regarding my ex the only thing that gets me and I feel like a bad man for even thinking this. I feel like she has learnt from all her past mistakes and won’t be like this with her new partner and he will get all the goodness that I saw in her and none of the bad.

I feel guilty for even hoping she won’t change now she is not with me. Or that her new partner will bring the best out of her out and none of the bad.

It is easy to feel this way, especially that she is now likely love bombing, he will initially 'get all the goodness' that you first experienced with her, and none of the bad, just like you experienced with her.  However, her past behaviors are very much indicative of future ones - and more often than not each love-bombing cycle with each successive relationship that she has will likely be shorter than the previous one.

I sometimes think that maybe I’m the one with the disorder now. Why else am I reacting the way she used to? I’m talking about looking up her Facebook page. Thinking of ways to prompt her to contact me, fantasising about winning the lottery and rubbing it in her face. Absolutely ridiculous thoughts which make feel like less of a man.

Each time you look up her Facebook page, you are looking at what she wants others to see, her good side.  To me, this would be self-inflicted torture to look at your ex with only her good side only to make you realize what you have lost.  You are trauma bonded to her.  Please make a list of the pros and cons of being in a relationship, to give yourself the reason

My ex used to rally belittle peoples appearances and sometimes when I meet people I can her voice in my head saying those same things. How is that normal for me to do that? It’s like I see life through her lens only and not my own. I never think like that about other people. If anything I have empathy but lately I just see things how she would have. Is that normal.

No, this is not normal for her.  And from what you are describing, some have described these as 'borderline fleas' which are traits that she has influenced on you through 'transference' - you therapist should be able to help you reverse this.

My therapist told me she doesn’t think I have severe codependency issues. But my people pleasing and my complete lack of self love is quite severe and has led to all my difficulties in not just relationships but with every other aspect of my life.

I would starve to feed another. I would give my last pound (dollar) if someone I love or care for needed it. I would gladly drive a friend to the airport and insist on no petrol money even if it meant I would struggle.

Even my achievements in life were for others. I passed my degree in accounts and became a chartered accountant (hate accounts but its what my parents wanted), I left my gf who I was in healthy loving relationship because my family would accept her because of her religion, I would spend hours on unpaid overtime because I was asked for a favour, if o wanted to go to a restaurant or go out with friends I would just agree even if I hated it.

I’m too agreeable, completely lack self love, low self esteem and confidence in women.

A lot of what you have described are codependent traits and patterns - you might want to look at this document:  https://coda.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/2011-Patterns-of-Recovery-2015.pdf

Right now I don’t want to even think about her. But everything in my life is as a result of her.

Some days I’m strong like if you read my last post. Then I get days like today where I’m such a mess and hate myself.

If I was normal I would not have put up with it in the first place.

What is normal?  I think I am normal, I test I am normal; however, I am not normal.  If I was normal, I too would not be here.

Ok I’m getting ridiculously worse.

I had a disturbing dream in the morning of her with a man. I woke up at 1am and since then I’m having non stop panic attacks. I was tempted to go to A&E hospital but I’m scared of what they will say. I feel exhausted but I can’t sleep.

Yes, it does sound much worse.  I definitely recommend getting help; perhaps, reach out to your therapist for a recommendation on what to do, if you want to avoid an evaluation at a hospital.
 

Why is this happening? I thought I had a lid on this only yesterday. This is just too painful. All the daily hurt for 12 years and taking every kind of abuse, to her using me to go to another man as if I didn’t even exist? I would have preferred if she falsely accused me and I went to jail for 12 years and waste my life that way At least I would come out with the dignity and my sanity.

This is a question that is best answered with a licensed professional, like your therapist.  I can share with you that there will be both good days and bad days, today you are having a bad day.  Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.

I’m really trying to be strong but this is literally taken my will to live to rebuild. Right now I try to go to sleep and dread the next day.

I too find sleep the best way to deal with my own personal issues that are related to what you are experiencing.  I also use 'coping' mechanisms to help distract me when I feel down - what kind of coping mechanisms do you use?

Here is a list of some references to coping and other skills that may help you:  https://www.crisistextline.org/resources/#resources-3


Take care, talk to your T for more things you can try to help you cope with this.

SD

[Brokenmind]

Hey AM
Thank you I’m trying to hang in there today was a half day. Morning I felt like crap but now I feel a lot better. It’s weird how my thinking changes like that but I think you nailed it there: A rollercoaster which is what I’ve been on for 12 years. So it stands to reason that once I come off I’m going to feel like I’m still on it.

Oh I’ve written it all down it’s pages long and, I’m still adding to it!

Unfortunately my sleep is still erratic. Like 2 hours here and there. But it’s ok I just need to focus why I’m feeling good now.

I have a few hobbies AM but I think I need a break. I was thinking of going to the South of France for a week and rent a cottage. I used to write before I met and I think it will be an ideal opportunity to restart it there

Thanks AM for the concern, it was a bad trip but I got back up again and all of you help.

[Brokenmind]

Hi SD

Wow I had the same screaming of “I’m not a f’ing child”. She would normally do it when I try to explain something slower because she didn’t get it the first time. Personally I wouldn’t feel guilt about that retort at all because like you said you got your point across.

That is strange when you mention sleeping with the kids like that. My ex would also sleep with her son but would smother him but this would only be after the tantrum I mentioned. I never thought of it as Emotionally incestuous which I suppose it was. 

Did you dare have a conversation with her about it?

I have mentioned C-ptsd to my therapist and she said we will look into it.

As I mentioned to AM I have some hobbies but I’m going to book a holiday in a remote cottage in France and continue writing the book I started years ago.

Sorry SD that was a Typo. I meant The and not Ten Antidepressants. Sorry to alarm you. I take 1 10mg a day. It’s the weakest one I think.

When you said “and more often than not each love-bombing cycle with each successive relationship that she has will likely be shorter than the previous one”

With her I was her longest relationship and latest but I think I’m just a blip in that  theory because I honestly don’t think I can see any man lasting as long as I did with her.

Very good point regarding looking at Facebook.i haven’t looked all day today and I won’t in future otherwise it will keep me stuck where Iam.

Borderline fleas???? Lovely! It’s not like im mirroring her actions but more I could almost hear what her response would be to seeing certain things like if I saw a baby I would think she would tell me once were out of earshot “did you see that ugly baby”.

Thanks SD I’ll check out that article next.

Ha ha good point again. You seem normal my friend!! You are right my codependency is something I do need to work on though

As I explained to AM I feel better today. It’s weird because when I feel like this it feels shocking to think it could come back still. But “rollercoaster” right?

I did seek help SD, I called the mental health crisis team. They put me in touch with a therapist and it felt good to talk to someone in person that knows about the disorder as well.

I also called the  Samaritans. It’s a free charity line. This guy I spoke to, Henry, he talked me through and I swear I should paid him what I pay my therapist as he actually made me laugh out loud a few times. Ones so glad I reached out and no i didn’t get sanctioned like I thought I might.

Again thanks for the link I will check it out.

So seeing as I’m not hyperventilating today or getting a panic attack or crying. I will use this opportunity to get an early night.

So I bid you all a good night and thanks from the bottom of my heart for coming back to me after I fell down hard yesterday.












 

[SaltyDawg]

Hi SD

Wow I had the same screaming of “I’m not a f’ing child”. She would normally do it when I try to explain something slower because she didn’t get it the first time. Personally I wouldn’t feel guilt about that retort at all because like you said you got your point across.

BM,

I would do the same to my wife, slow it down, explain it in simpler terms, even though she was the valedictorian and supposedly smarter one between the two of us, sometimes it sure didn't feel like it.
 

That is strange when you mention sleeping with the kids like that. My ex would also sleep with her son but would smother him but this would only be after the tantrum I mentioned. I never thought of it as Emotionally incestuous which I suppose it was.

Did you dare have a conversation with her about it?

My wife would caress and stroke each child on their face, hair, and back, to comfort them.  My S really enjoys it, and requests it even as recently as a few days ago.  The last time she slept with our D was less than a year ago.

I did have a conversation, in front of the couple's therapist, but framed it in a manner that 'each child is old enough to sleep on their own, it's not emotionally healthy to be doing it at this age', the T agreed, and since that conversation, my wife has been moving in that direction.  W is self-aware, that this is not normal, so she has gone to extra effort, once she was made self-aware, to limit the amount of this type of activity with the children.

The end result was a desired one, so I did not directly broach the topic of emotional incest with her, even though I suspect the couple's T didn't offer any pushback on my suggestion of doing this for that reasoning.

I have mentioned C-ptsd to my therapist and she said we will look into it.

I am glad you asked that question to your T, and she will help you look into it - I think the better you understand yourself, the better you can deal with what you are going through.  Only you can take care of yourself.  All I can do is shine a light on a potential issue to look at, and if it resonates, to take appropriate action of what is best for you, by you.

As I mentioned to AM I have some hobbies but I’m going to book a holiday in a remote cottage in France and continue writing the book I started years ago.

I think that is a wonderful use of your time, I'm glad you thought of it.

Sorry SD that was a Typo. I meant The and not Ten Antidepressants. Sorry to alarm you. I take 1 10mg a day. It’s the weakest one I think.

I'm glad that this is the case, you have a minimal antidepressant prescription, and yes I was a bit worried, as that sounded a bit extreme.  Thank you for clarifying this.

Personally, I find the best thing to combat depression in myself, is to go outside, in the sun and elements, and exercise for 1-2 hours 2-3 times per week, among other self-care routines like a nice long hot shower, and getting lost in a TV series, movie, book, etc. 

When you said “and more often than not each love-bombing cycle with each successive relationship that she has will likely be shorter than the previous one”

With her I was her longest relationship and latest but I think I’m just a blip in that  theory because I honestly don’t think I can see any man lasting as long as I did with her.

I should have been clearer, if she is dating an emotionally healthy man, he will see through the love bombing and won't put up with that kind of stuff.  I've been raised to be a people pleaser, while I see it as a 'good trait', I am now seeing it also as my achilles heel where people can take advantage of me and my generosity by doing too much caretaking.  Anyone who is a people-pleaser, or has some codependent traits and patterns (I do), will be much more vulnerable.  So assuming the replacement has the same/similar issues as I do, the time she will love bomb them will be less; however, if the replacement has a secure attachment, he won't put up with, and abandon her before she can complete her love bombing cycle.

Very good point regarding looking at Facebook.i haven’t looked all day today and I won’t in future otherwise it will keep me stuck where I am.

Same thing would apply to other social media, and perhaps even a photo album of the good times, out of sight, can mean out of mind if you are sufficiently distracted.

Borderline fleas???? Lovely! It’s not like im mirroring her actions but more I could almost hear what her response would be to seeing certain things like if I saw a baby I would think she would tell me once were out of earshot “did you see that ugly baby”.

If you google "fleas site:bpdfamily.com" you will find over 200 posts on the topic on BPD Family, it is an informal term to indicate that some of the behavior patterns were acquired by us while being with a pwBPD from the pwBPD, the more issues we have, the more we can catch.  Some people get more fleas than others, I know I had them, after working with my individual therapist, we determined they were codependent-like (caretaking) patterns that we acquired from being so enmeshed with our pwBPD.

Ha ha good point again. You seem normal my friend!! You are right my codependency is something I do need to work on though

According to Google over 90% of the general population have codependent traits - this is the new normal, even though it does not feel this way.

As I explained to AM I feel better today. It’s weird because when I feel like this it feels shocking to think it could come back still. But “rollercoaster” right?

I would like to use an analogy here.  If one is looking at a bright light, and close their eyes, they will still see a shadow pattern of those bright lites, kind of like screen burn-in on older TV sets where you will still see the image, even though it is not actively there.  You are used to the roller coaster ride of emotional states, so those will still be with you, it is also part of depression and/or cPTSD and/or it could be something else - a T will help you discern what this is.

I did seek help SD, I called the mental health crisis team. They put me in touch with a therapist and it felt good to talk to someone in person that knows about the disorder as well.

I am glad you have this resource available to you, they are better than the national hotlines for this type of support.  If you need to use them again, when you are in crisis, please do so, it is much better to talk to someone rather than have to deal with a terrifying panic attack by yourself.

I also called the  Samaritans. It’s a free charity line. This guy I spoke to, Henry, he talked me through and I swear I should paid him what I pay my therapist as he actually made me laugh out loud a few times. Ones so glad I reached out and no i didn’t get sanctioned like I thought I might.

It sounds like Henry was there when you needed him most.  Many of the people on these charity lines have 'lived' experiences that they can use to listen and emotionally support you and can provide some levity to your situation in order to make you feel better.  At least where I am located sanctions don't happen unless you are a physical danger to yourself and/or others.

So seeing as I’m not hyperventilating today or getting a panic attack or crying. I will use this opportunity to get an early night.

So I bid you all a good night and thanks from the bottom of my heart for coming back to me after I fell down hard yesterday.

I hope you slept well when you read this reply.  Take care.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Hi guys,

BM,

Glad to hear that it is going better. I can really relate to what you are saying in regards to your thinking. I am the same way. I too am surprised often how different a mindset I can have all of a sudden. The problem is that I can sometimes feel totally confident that I am over it all, only to find out the day after that I am not quite as far as I thought I was in terms of recovery.

I also have a lot of intolerable things written down and I think it keeps me on the right path (straight and narrow). Because as my T has experienced, I have come a long way in terms of codependency recovery, and I will no longer allow anyone to treat me badly.

Sounds great about that trip to France. Hopefully it will not leave you feeling lonely. I think that I would have a challenge with this.

BM and SD,

It is interesting what you discuss in regards to the rollercoaster of emotions. I used to think that this was just human behavior in terms of recovery. But it is much more than that. Naturally you get used to the ups and downs from the r/s and have these feelings some time afterwards. This makes so much sense. Thanks for shedding light on this SD.

My ex would also keep her 10 yo son in her bed many nights, explaining that he liked this and he should go to his room, but she would still let him. I think she benefits from this emotionally also.

I like the point by SD in that if you feel better 23 hours of the day it is still progress. I think that time just has to go by, being away from the pwBPD, however way this can happen. This is my experience after r/s in general. Just survival for now and thrive later. I am getting a little tired of spending so much time “surviving” though. Well, I still have work to do on myself.

SD,

I am trying to understand in regards to the lovebombing phase. I assume that you mean being able to spot that she is doing this to gain something in return or maybe it was different in my case. Because well, I don’t think she did more for me than I did for her and tbh I think I could fall right back into it again with another, because it can be compared to other honeymoon phases I had with others, who I did not believe had BPD. Unfortunately I do not possess your CRADAR    but I would really like to avoid BPD r/s in the future. I think that I would have naturally learned from this, by going through it. But the idea for me would be to discover the traits before becoming too involved. Perhaps this is not even possible.

I think that you mentioned at some point about gaslighting oneself. Interesting because my T actually also mentioned this at the last session. Just thought I would mention it. I think that it really shines through all of the learnings you have had over the years. You have so much to give and we definitely benefit for this. Much appreciated.

Take care guys.

[Brokenmind]

Hi all

Thanks for the replies

I don’t know why I did it but yesterday I looked into this man she has been seeing in America.

He is retired military, (complete opposite to me), about 10 years older, he runs a YouTube channel that looks for Bigfoot…

So from looking at the videos I found her in them. She also lied to me November when she said she needed time to think and went to her cousins house to stay and her phone messed up. It was during that stay that I cried to her on the phone as she had sent me a load of vile message and then I couldn’t get through to her.

I saw how she was with him. Again change of personality almost mirroring his. So all this time I’ve been despairing and crying and worrying about her and her son she was having sex and having the time of her life.

She’s never been abroad before, we could never go because of her intense fear of flying for 12 years . But she flew to him??

I was angry, I was brought right back again to the bottom.

But then I had a moment of clarity. Why am I’m unhappy that she is is happy? Yes she destroyed me. Yes she used me. Yes she humiliated me,

but it’s also yes that she is mentally ill. it’s also yes that she tried to show her best side to me for 2 years. And it’s yes that I don’t want her back so why am I focusing on her when she never loved me? Why am I sitting here with my life on hold for something that is and was never achievable…

I’m still hurt. She still doesn’t know that I know. I have a feeling she will try and contact me when she is back. I probably will answer just to tell her that I know and it’s done.

I need to love my life now. So from today I’m focusing on myself only. No longer will is spend hours laying on the floor crying or angry or sad.

Looking at this man interact with her and others I can actually see he is a people pleaser like me. A little older and wiser perhaps so she may have latched on to that. He is opposite to me in looks as well. I’m slim. This guy is overweight.

The funny thing is they have been in contact for years as she was a subscriber to her channel. When I noticed his comments on her FB page I asked and she turned around showed me his pic and said “are you serious have you seen what he looks like?”.

Monkey branch to monkey branch. This is why I think she didn’t end it and kind of still hasn’t. When she asked me for cash it meant she hasn’t told this guy everything and still needed me there in case it didn’t work when she went the first time. Now the second time she’s gone she still said she needed time.

She still doesn’t know I know she basically cheated on me and lied, and even went to another country. So that monkey branch she held onto for 12 years has broken and she doesn’t know yet.

If she has a good life with this man and he never has issues then it’s shouldn’t matter to me. What kind of man does it make me wishing someone stays where they are in their illness and what they did to me.

It’s happened it’s done. I shouldn’t even care whether she will also mistreat him. In time I assume it will but then again he is completely out of her normal world of London so it may captivate her for years.

I wasted 12 years looking after someone. I didn’t do anything wrong, it’s something that shows what kind of man I am and I know I saved her son from a worse fate if I wasn’t there.

So despite knowing that right now she is idealising someone else, I finally see that as idealisation and not the love I so desperately wanted.

AM - For me the alone time will help as I will be away from a familiar area. Similar I suppose to my ex going to America and suddenly detaching completely.

SD - I did sleep well thank you but I made that error yesterday of looking this man up. I feel bad as I wanted to know if he was married still, how much he earns trying to compare him to me. It was silly. I should care.

There are worse me things in life. There are children in war zones, there are mothers losing their children, there is war, disease and I’m not going to let toxic love I held on to for dear life kill me. I can’t believe suicide came into my head over her? How it would affect my family who I love dearly, again for her? I would end my life for her? NO - no more. I have a good heart, I’ve never harmed anyone in my life, I’m generous, I have love to give and not take.

I’ve neglected myself for not just 12 years but all my life. Being with her just highlighted it to me because I’ve never had anyone take serious advantage of it before. my dad was toxic in his behaviour but he never took advantage of me. I just learned to take emotional abuse from my mother who took it from my Dad.

This life is ours not theirs. I loaned it to someone for 12 years and she broke it. But it’s not dead I still have my life.

 It’s up to me what will do with it.

[SaltyDawg]

Broken Mind,

   All I can think of is "WOW".  Even though it hurt like hell when you watched the YT videos, I personally feel it gave you the clarity that you needed to detach and move forward.  Following my usual pattern of interaction, I will comment on your observations.

I don’t know why I did it but yesterday I looked into this man she has been seeing in America.

Morbid curiosity?  Likely, you were looking for some kind of closure / explanation that you can wrap your mind around so you can understand what is happening to you.

He is retired military, (complete opposite to me), about 10 years older, he runs a YouTube channel that looks for Bigfoot…

Anyone who looks for Bigfoot, has a severe mental health issue - a mythical creature that does not exist (except in the form of pranks).  It is like looking for Nessie in the Loch Ness. 

So from looking at the videos I found her in them. She also lied to me November when she said she needed time to think and went to her cousins house to stay and her phone messed up. It was during that stay that I cried to her on the phone as she had sent me a load of vile message and then I couldn’t get through to her.

Now that you have confirmed her 'true colors' what are you thinking...

I saw how she was with him. Again change of personality almost mirroring his. So all this time I’ve been despairing and crying and worrying about her and her son she was having sex and having the time of her life.

You can only assume the 'sex' part, likely true, but she was having the time of her life on an adventure hunting a mythical creature. 

She’s never been abroad before, we could never go because of her intense fear of flying for 12 years . But she flew to him??

In the love bombing phase, a borderline will do stuff way out of character for them, I know my wife did, even though I did not realize it at the time.  My wife is very conservative, yet she initiated public sex (on top of a waterfall, in the ocean with people only a few feet away).

I was angry, I was brought right back again to the bottom.

Anger is a valid feeling, for the time being hold on to this anger and use its energy to fuel your healing.

But then I had a moment of clarity. Why am I’m unhappy that she is is happy? Yes she destroyed me. Yes she used me. Yes she humiliated me,

Focus on this, to accelerate your detaching and learning.

but it’s also yes that she is mentally ill. it’s also yes that she tried to show her best side to me for 2 years. And it’s yes that I don’t want her back so why am I focusing on her when she never loved me? Why am I sitting here with my life on hold for something that is and was never achievable…

This is absolutely brilliant, you have perfect clarity of the situation that she is mentally ill and was love bombing you for 2 years.  The reason you are focused on her is your 'trauma bond' with her.

I’m still hurt. She still doesn’t know that I know. I have a feeling she will try and contact me when she is back. I probably will answer just to tell her that I know and it’s done.

Borderlines are creatures of habit, she will repeat her past behaviors.  When she contacts you, just send her a link of the You Tube video of her, with time stamp where she is featured in one of his videos, she won't be able to deny it.  If you need to encode it starts where she is featured, lmk, and I can help with that.  I am curious if you wouldn't mind sharing a link, then I can get an idea of this nut she is chasing bigfoot with.

I need to love my life now. So from today I’m focusing on myself only. No longer will is spend hours laying on the floor crying or angry or sad.

I absolutely love your idea, it is a brilliant one.  Please stay focused on this, this is what you need for your recovery.

Looking at this man interact with her and others I can actually see he is a people pleaser like me. A little older and wiser perhaps so she may have latched on to that. He is opposite to me in looks as well. I’m slim. This guy is overweight.

I too am a people please, and I attract "Crazy" like no one else I know.  As of late, I get about half dozen hits a year (with a wedding band on my finger) all but one were 10-15 years younger than me, and all but 2 were smoking hot, physically fit, and very attractive, while I am literally very much overweight with male pattern baldness.


The funny thing is they have been in contact for years as she was a subscriber to her channel. When I noticed his comments on her FB page I asked and she turned around showed me his pic and said “are you serious have you seen what he looks like?”.

Well, I probably look a lot like him, and I attract crazy good looking women, I can only guess it is a borderline thing.  A guy who looks like him/me, if they didn't know any better could easily fall for anyone giving them this level of attention, married or not.  Right now I am repulsed by pwBPD; however, I must endure them, as I am married to one.

Monkey branch to monkey branch. This is why I think she didn’t end it and kind of still hasn’t. When she asked me for cash it meant she hasn’t told this guy everything and still needed me there in case it didn’t work when she went the first time. Now the second time she’s gone she still said she needed time.

Watch out, I am going to stereotype a typical bigfoot hunter... if this bigfoot hunter lives in a caravan, or a small single level prefab home, and drives an older model vehicle, he is likely at or below the poverty line, and will be looking to her for some of his funding from her (which means you indirectly)

She still doesn’t know I know she basically cheated on me and lied, and even went to another country. So that monkey branch she held onto for 12 years has broken and she doesn’t know yet.

If she has a good life with this man and he never has issues then it’s shouldn’t matter to me. What kind of man does it make me wishing someone stays where they are in their illness and what they did to me.

It’s happened it’s done. I shouldn’t even care whether she will also mistreat him. In time I assume it will but then again he is completely out of her normal world of London so it may captivate her for years.

Both her and him have mental health issues.  She will be his problem now.  You are wishing for the problem to go away.  However, if she only goes over on tourist visas, that can be an issue, she will need to immigrate, you might consider helping her to get out of your hair.

I wasted 12 years looking after someone. I didn’t do anything wrong, it’s something that shows what kind of man I am and I know I saved her son from a worse fate if I wasn’t there.

So despite knowing that right now she is idealising someone else, I finally see that as idealisation and not the love I so desperately wanted.

Now that you have realized this, stay focused on this until you detach from the relationship.


SD - I did sleep well thank you but I made that error yesterday of looking this man up. I feel bad as I wanted to know if he was married still, how much he earns trying to compare him to me. It was silly. I should care.

If you send me a link to the bigfoot hunter's YT/FB page (only if you are comfortable) I am very observant, and can kind of figure it out, or you can use my stereotype of these kinds of people, and they are likely living at or near the poverty line, in a caravan, or small prefab house, somewhere out in the woods, rural area that is very inexpensive to live there off the land.  He likely drives a pick-up truck or SUV at least 10 years old.  He likely hunts, and eats wild deer for meat.  He may have a small military pension which is most of his funding, unless he is old enough to draw social security, which really is not enough to live on.

There are worse me things in life. There are children in war zones, there are mothers losing their children, there is war, disease and I’m not going to let toxic love I held on to for dear life kill me. I can’t believe suicide came into my head over her? How it would affect my family who I love dearly, again for her? I would end my life for her? NO - no more. I have a good heart, I’ve never harmed anyone in my life, I’m generous, I have love to give and not take.

Stay focused on this too, you do have a lot to love to give, to someone who is deserving - you are worth it.

I’ve neglected myself for not just 12 years but all my life. Being with her just highlighted it to me because I’ve never had anyone take serious advantage of it before. my dad was toxic in his behaviour but he never took advantage of me. I just learned to take emotional abuse from my mother who took it from my Dad.

This life is ours not theirs. I loaned it to someone for 12 years and she broke it. But it’s not dead I still have my life.

 It’s up to me what will do with it.

I agree, it is time to detach and move forward.

Being mindful, before she returns, you want to make sure all of your affairs with respect to her are taken care of with regards to finances, etc.

Do some more self-care.

Take care.

SD

[EyesUp]

@BMind,

Sometimes we think that having more info will help.  Hey - Sometimes it does!  But, also, sometimes it doesn't.

Here's what we do know:  Contact leads to contact.  Conflict leads to conflict. 

Preparing to confront your ex with what you've learned is likely to lead to conflict... She's unlikely to acknowledge what you've learned in an empathic way that takes responsibility.  On the contrary, you're more likely to hear that you've got it all wrong, you're a stalker, and in fact it's your fault that she did this in the first place...

So - my advice is:  Time to greyrock and go no contact.

If she contacts you, you are under no obligation to share what you've learned.  If you want to leave a door open for the kid, that's entirely up to you - but I encourage you to avoid pulling on the strings that seek closure from her...  exposing her is unlikely to lead to any satisfaction - for you or her.

On the other hand, sitting with what you've learned and granting closure to yourself is the better path forward.  Why did she do it?  How could she do it?  You can answer those questions yourself and grant yourself some peace.  Gain strength in knowing that you've got some info in your back pocket.  You don't need to sign this over to her... 

Your comments about taking time for yourself and ignoring the other guy are the right ones.  Try to stick with that.  "This is the way" 

[OKrunch]

Broken,

this last entry is really really solid gold.
Ill be coming back to this post at moments of weakness.

It is inspiring.

[Brokenmind]

Hey SD

Now that I’ve confirmed her true colours I’m thinking why did I not even just see it, as I did see it, but why didn’t I acknowledge it. The answer I know now, it stems from my childhood so Solution:  now I must work on that in therapy. It’s got nothing to do with her anymore. Ashe is not the problem I need to focus I’m the problem I need to focus on.

Oh I know she probably is having the time of her life. Today SD however I received 3 phone calls. Each one from her 2 sisters and brother.

They told me something that blew my mind

They started with sorry this happened to you your a good guy etc.

 then they asked me what She said about her oldest (now deceased) brother. I told them straight that she told me that he had sexually abused my ex as well as the youngest sister.

All lies they cried. It never happened. Their brother was the sweetest guy there was. She never was abused. She went off the rails when a relationship with a guy called Paul, her first love, broke up with her and she started taking hard drugs as well as cannabis. She the. Straight away got into a relationship with her son’s Dad.

And all the things she said about her son’s Dad. All lies. He was giving, he was a good man he proposed to her when she got pregnant but she then suddenly hated him.

They told me she was a compulsive liar all her life though even before the drugs. Always seeking attention and raging. She tried to abort her baby by running into walls and smoking drugs. She had a bad coke habit. She never took responsibility for her actions and lies and she has now lost everyone.

They have blocked her out completely.

They said how she told them  I was never supportive or a good Dad to her son that I was doing nothing financially all while she was begging them for money as well as me. Everyone.

They said they never even believed it and were sorry for never telling me when she was cheating on me.

I took this opportunity to ask about her son and if they knew where he was is he ok.

He is staying at his Nans house and has now been refusing to go back to her. He hates her and wants to stay there. For the last year and a half when she refused me contact aside to see him once on his birthday she was telling him I didn’t want to know him and that I told her that I don’t really love him.

This is why he changed with me. He thinks I abandoned him. Which breaks my heart.

I asked them to desperately get a message to him that I do love him and want him with me. That I tried to see him but she would not let me. That he can come stay with me if he prefers to his Nan who hardly saw him which I think now was down to her and not his Nan not caring.

So she has gone to America, abandoned her own son, cheated on me and she is now coming back to no family either as they are appalled about what she said about their brother being a sexual predator

If this relationship doesn’t go well she will have nothing. I don’t say this maliciously either. I actually hope it goes well for her sake as the consequences given her suicidal threats in the past could be dire and I don’t wish that on anyone.

But she is not my concern anymore. The revelations by her siblings had erased all doubt in my head that I could have been wrong about her, or it was somehow my fault if only I did better.

I will send you the link if the vid where they interview each other it’s towards the end of the video if you want to skip it. I don’t mind at all it’s in public space anyway.

I’m not sure if he is a nut, his channel seems to do well so he maybe earning a decent wage with 27k subscribers (I’m not sure if that pays a lot?) and now she is involved in it. Plus if he wasn’t serious about her I doubt he would have put her in as it’s his livelihood.

But Yeap a grown man looking for a mythical creature? They go into forest and get excited when they see a broken branch or hear a distant noise thinking they are whistling to them is ridiculous. Hilarious actually as they genuinely look at a rock and claim a Bigfoot placed it there.

It’s up there with flat Earth and loch ness.

Oh I wasn’t disparaging his looks it was just when I asked her about him that’s what she said. But given the fact that the teaching assistant she cheated on me with in 2018 was slightly obese I don’t think looks fall in that high a criteria.

I’m no oil painting SD so I’m not special. She is attractive but she does have a fierce look about her.

I’m not expecting contact from her now. I texted her last night that I know.

It was a long text where I was no longer passive and just told as it was. I told her I know. She is a cheat, she is a liar, she conned me out of money and she is a bad Mother. I didn’t speak to her siblings till today but I wish I could add what I found out to it.

You know what she replied?

“We broke ages ago I’m no cheat”

I replied with screenshots of our texts while she was there. Of her lying about where she was, how she needed time to think etc.

She replied: “I didn’t cheat. ”

This infuriated me and I replied “don’t me, it’s over don’t contact me again” and the blocked her before she could reply. I didn’t want to read anymore and that’s that, NC starts.

I’ll send you the link in a moment SD.

[Brokenmind]

OKrunch

Thank you I’ve actually was reading yours prior to posting. How are you coping?

[Brokenmind]

Eyesup

You’re right, yesterday was and is the last contact. I wanted done sort of closure so she knew that I knew what she was really like.

I’m not even tempted to contact her again after the revelations from her siblings today.

It’s done, it’s over. I’m broken and I need to fix me. I know it won’t be the last time I think of her. How can it when everything reminds me of her devastation. Me being alone with no friends, working a poor job that I’m doing because of the trauma I endured. Me being anxious and nervous outside my home thinking people can see my depression. The actual depression I’m feeling.

It’s going to long road still.

But today I’ve jumped one hurdle at least.

The need and hope that she will come back to me. That it could somehow work.

Thats gone.

Now to the next hurdle.

Accepting my own flaws and where Iam in life the moment and start working at it. I want this anger to go as well.

 I don’t even like the way I worded the below replies to SD as I sound vindictive and that was never me.

[OKrunch]

OKrunch

Thank you I’ve actually was reading yours prior to posting. How are you coping?

Defintley a lot better. I had a low point about a week ago, but that was abnormal for how things have generally been of late.
I honestly wish I had had a bit more of an "eye opener" moment like you got to have.
It took me soooooo long to take off the rose colored lenses and take her down off the pedastal.
Only then are we able to see the extent to which we were not only manipulated and mistreated, but we are able to see the whole picture of all the selfish unscrupulous things they do that seem "Normal" to them. Its quite appalling.

I had to laugh at the whole Bigfoot angle in your thread. I am from Northeast US, and my Ex-Step-Father-In-Law was a bigfoot hunter. The guy was and is a walking joke.

[OKrunch]

Now to the next hurdle.

Accepting my own flaws and where Iam in life the moment and start working at it. I want this anger to go as well.

 I don’t even like the way I worded the below replies to SD as I sound vindictive and that was never me.

And we are certainly on the same page here. I hope very much that yours fades faster. The anger has been the biggest issue for me, and the intrusive thoughts that cause them.
The day I go an entire week without having it cross my mind or twist my guts will be a glorious one indeed.
I put a lot of stock in the changing of the seasons, and other grand-scale cycles.
Spring is near, lean in to it. I know I will be.

[Brokenmind]

OKrunch

It will get there friend. I’m glad it’s getting better for you.

I find it comes in cycles for me. I get sad with a thought about her, then get depressed thinking she is out there with a guy, then I think of the abuse, then the anger comes, this in turn makes me feel guilty like I’m not a good person, then comes the crying, then comes the  acceptance. Then it starts all over again.

Solid ground feels strange for us as, for me 12 years, we forgot what it feels like and it feels almost wrong to live normally without the abuse.

Just try and remember these feelings we have is indicative of us and not them. I’ve never in my life even before her put myself first. I met someone that took all my efforts to please and I lost who I was completely.

But the issue was still there before, I just never met anyone who abused it so much before.

And this should be our focus. We are survivors of abuse, there is no shame there. If you saw someone jump into the water to save their loved one from killing themselves and nearly drowned  themselves is that shameful? Was I a fool? No.

Now I’m injured from that drowning and I need to heal from the trauma of it.

Keep working at it, we will get through this.

[OKrunch]

OKrunch

It will get there friend. I’m glad it’s getting better for you.

I find it comes in cycles for me. I get sad with a thought about her, then get depressed thinking she is out there with a guy, then I think of the abuse, then the anger comes, this in turn makes me feel guilty like I’m not a good person, then comes the crying, then comes the  acceptance. Then it starts all over again.

Solid ground feels strange for us as, for me 12 years, we forgot what it feels like and it feels almost wrong to live normally without the abuse.

Just try and remember these feelings we have is indicative of us and not them. I’ve never in my life even before her put myself first. I met someone that took all my efforts to please and I lost who I was completely.

But the issue was still there before, I just never met anyone who abused it so much before.

And this should be our focus. We are survivors of abuse, there is no shame there. If you saw someone jump into the water to save their loved one from killing themselves and nearly drowned  themselves is that shameful? Was I a fool? No.

Now I’m injured from that drowning and I need to heal from the trauma of it.

Keep working at it, we will get through this.

i wish crying came easier for me to be honest. Its very cleansing and cathartic, but i have found I can only cry if i really dig down WHILE talking to someone else. Unsually Therapist.
It would be easier to be able to cry when I feel I need to, but it usually gets clogged and turns into depressive lethargy.
Thankfully that is occuring far less often.

Once the "happy memory flashbacks" fade off, Ill do great.

[Brokenmind]

See I wish I was more like you. Crying does come easy but it comes with everyone knowing. It’s hard doing anything when it comes.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not prone to just crying, it’s normally on my own.

Those happy flashback will fade in time.you need to frame it differently though OKrunch

I see those happy memories as coming from me not her. Any happy memories are of me making them happy for her and her returning with idealisation of me. It wasn’t love.

I now see it as the same as a women throwing a ball and the dog (me) returning it and thinking that pat on the head (sex) and her saying good boy (praise) was real love.

I don’t think our ex’s were ever the architects of our happiness. We made it happy not them.

So I guess that means we are the architects of our happiness and we can be THAT happy again.