Future DIL - I'm very concerned

[3AM]

I'm new to the group and want to introduce myself/ what brings me to this group.
My son has been in a several year relationship with plans to marry. Over the years, my concern has increased regarding her mental health. I've spoken to my son about it; he's aware that I'm concerned but has let me know that, at this time, he doesn't think there is anything to worry about.

Here are a few red flags that keep me awake at night:
* Manipulation and control - She is crafty with regard to the many ways to influence his whereabouts, who he associates with (when, where, how) including what he wears (often to match her)
* Isolation - His friend group has become smaller. She doesn't have her own friends/ friend group but has assimilated his. The few who remain are the ones she can manipulate.
* Attention at all costs - There seems to be few limits on what she'll do for attention...some schemes are quite elaborate.

The list could be longer but this is the gist. I've done what I can do without hurting my relationship with my son. I hope to learn something here and am happy that there is a forum for this. Thank you.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[kells76]

Hi 3AM and a warm

Wow, I really feel where you're coming from in seeing the train barreling down the tracks and wanting beyond anything to warn your son -- but feeling like there's nothing you can say that will get through.

My H and I had a close friend who had started dating a woman diagnosed with BPD. He was sure he could handle it, they were meant to be, she was even in school for a counseling degree and had all the books about it, it would be fine... and all of this that you mention:

* Manipulation and control - She is crafty with regard to the many ways to influence his whereabouts, who he associates with (when, where, how) including what he wears (often to match her)
* Isolation - His friend group has become smaller. She doesn't have her own friends/ friend group but has assimilated his. The few who remain are the ones she can manipulate.
* Attention at all costs - There seems to be few limits on what she'll do for attention...some schemes are quite elaborate.

was true in his case as well. While she did seem to isolate him (whether on purpose or just to get her unmeetable needs met) from friends, we would still reach out by text even if he "couldn't" meet up or participate in get-togethers. They were together a couple of years before it all fell apart (she'd threatened suicide over the phone but wouldn't tell him where she was). He made a clean break and then was able to talk about stuff with us afterwards.

I think what was key for us was staying consistent, staying in touch (not to much or too little -- just reliably), not overwhelming him with "you should do this... you shouldn't do that...", and maybe most importantly, not positioning ourselves as a threat to his relationship with her . It's possible that if she'd seen us as "coming between them", she'd have been even more controlling about if/how he could stay in touch with us. That's classic Karpman Drama Triangle dynamics -- two people are having conflict, but when a third person "tries to help", the two people "band together" against the third person, creating an artificial bond that strengthens the two against the third.

You're ten steps ahead already by realizing this:

I've done what I can do without hurting my relationship with my son.

that there's a balance between wanting to save your son from the inevitable hurt, and preserving the relationship so that when things crash, he knows you're there for him and that relationship is intact.

Reminding him that you'll always be there for him no matter what, and you'll work hard to just listen to him without judgment, could help, as it sounds like you've "said your piece" and he knows where you stand.

Building up your own mental health, support system, and self-care routine will be important, too, so that you can be strong and healthy to support him as he chooses to let the BPD train hit him 

Do you have other family members (spouse, other kids...)? Are you on the same page with them about your son?

And just to make sure -- neither of them have kids?

[3AM]

Thank you for the warm welcome and encouragement!
Fortunately, there are no children yet. My family unit is very small ... just me and two adult children (out-of-state extended family) and close friends.

[3AM]

P.S. - Besides my son, I've only spoken to one of my friends about it ... and she has been supportive. I want to be careful about saying too much to too many people in our circle...at least for now.

[irunforwine]

Hi, I am knew to this group and i saw your post and it is very relatable.  I saw all the same flags when my son was dating the woman he is now married to.  He held out on proposing for 5 years, he was even unsure on his wedding day if he was making the right decision.  He is in a bad marriage and now he is stuck because they have since had a child, who we got to know for 1 year and and as of Dec 21, 2023, his wife has yanked her out of our life.  She has isolated him from his family, convinced him we were terrible and bad, and the one year we had a relationship with him I think he realized we weren't.   I hope you can convince your son that marrying a BPD person will ruin him.  Good luck.

[livednlearned]

I've spoken to my son about it; he's aware that I'm concerned but has let me know that, at this time, he doesn't think there is anything to worry about.

It's hard because he's sort of saying he's got this, even though you can see otherwise.

What is your relationship like with her?

Do they live nearby?

Has your son confided in you that he's struggling?

What kells76 wrote is really helpful:

I think what was key for us was staying consistent, staying in touch (not to much or too little -- just reliably), not overwhelming him with "you should do this... you shouldn't do that...", and maybe most importantly, not positioning ourselves as a threat to his relationship with her . It's possible that if she'd seen us as "coming between them", she'd have been even more controlling about if/how he could stay in touch with us. That's classic Karpman Drama Triangle dynamics -- two people are having conflict, but when a third person "tries to help", the two people "band together" against the third person, creating an artificial bond that strengthens the two against the third.

A lot of the skills like validation, especially validating questions, can help keep a line of communication open with your son.

How would you describe your relationship with your son, and his relationship with his sibling?

[3AM]

It's so good to know that I'm not alone in this!
They live nearby. And, so far, plans are to stay local. I have a great relationship with him. My relationship with her is beginning to feel some strain over the past 2 or so years (about the time that I began noticing control/ manipulation/ etc.).
My daughter has had a good relationship with her brother but I've noticed that he's begun to distance himself from her. Some of this is expected in normal/ healthy relationships (I think). But this, along with the fading out of a number of other relationships ... ugh. 
I'm taking all of your suggestions to heart. It really helps.

[kells76]

They live nearby. And, so far, plans are to stay local. I have a great relationship with him. My relationship with her is beginning to feel some strain over the past 2 or so years (about the time that I began noticing control/ manipulation/ etc.).

What did your relationship look like with her before 2 years ago? Were you close?

My daughter has had a good relationship with her brother but I've noticed that he's begun to distance himself from her. Some of this is expected in normal/ healthy relationships (I think). But this, along with the fading out of a number of other relationships ... ugh.

I'm curious if you have the kind of relationship with your daughter where you could ask her about that: "I've noticed that it seems like you and Son aren't spending as much time with each other as you used to... do you notice that, too?"

It would take some intentionality to make sure you aren't stepping in the middle of something -- I get what you're saying about how relationships naturally evolve. I think there can be a way to do that skillfully, where we are just curious and listening and learning, vs triangulating, where we are saying stuff like "But you should try to spend more time with him" or "He doesn't really mean it, it's because of XYZ".

...

Did you all make it thru New Year's ok?

[3AM]

The two of them met when they were in their early teens so I wasn't giving too much thought to some characteristics that were easily dismissed as immaturity. As time has progressed (she's a young adult now), some of these characteristics have gotten much worse (mostly attention seeking and control oriented behaviors). I began to distance myself a few years ago after noticing a concerning "mean streak." Now, my guard is almost always up.
As for my daughter, it's a unique situation. She has a developmental disability with limited ability to communicate. Something has changed over the last few months that has caused my daughter to respond negatively to my son's girlfriend so I've limited her visits considerably.
I spoke to my son again a few days ago...basically, just asking him to please pay attention ... the young lady has accumulated over 15 diagnoses (self-diagnosing in more than a few cases) of physiological conditions/ illnesses as well as an assortment of neuro-divergences ... the mental health piece is significantly minimized. She complained that one practitioner considered the likelihood of histrionic personality disorder. Setting aside her righteous indignation over the term "histrionic," there is definitely something amiss.
We're the kind of atypical, neurodivergent, family that has become accustomed and welcoming to human differences. And have experienced the seriousness of missed warning signs; my youngest son took his life at the age of 16. The "vibe" I'm getting from her is setting off so many alarms that I have trouble sleeping some nights.
Thanks again for listening and responding <3

[livednlearned]

You have good instincts and can see what's happening so now it's a question of how to keep those lines of communication open. It can be a lot of trial and error and effort (and some luck) to create that kind of environment.

How did your son respond when you shared your concerns?

Do you get the sense that she's aware you've got your guard up, or that your daughter has developed negative feelings about her?

I'm wondering if GF has shown signs of isolating your son from your family ...