Afraid of making wrong decision for kids

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I’m in a relationship (26 years), married 19 to a man with a spinal cord injury. I have a disabled daughter who is 28 and we have 2 children. Our relationship has been steadily going downhill for several years- he threatens, lashes out, has rages over such minor things, and has been abusive to me in the past. Someone recently gave me the book- stop walking on eggshells, and I truly feel like that book has described my family. I am to the point where it’s not healthy for me to be here, much less my children. I don’t want to leave, or our relationship to be over. But he insists that everything is my fault and unless I do as he says, then he sees divorce in our future. He has already demanded to keep his money separate and any extra money I have after paying monthly expenses and food, gas, etc. I should give him the extra to “get it out of my hands” so I don’t spend it. It’s getting to the point that my 10 year old had a bag packed in case we needed to leave because her dad was so mad. What can I do to help him, and all of us?? Or what are your suggestions? This has been going on for years.

[Magicturtle]

I’m in a relationship (26 years), married 19 to a man with a spinal cord injury. I have a disabled daughter who is 28 and we have 2 children. Our relationship has been steadily going downhill for several years- he threatens, lashes out, has rages over such minor things, and has been abusive to me in the past. Someone recently gave me the book- stop walking on eggshells, and I truly feel like that book has described my family. I am to the point where it’s not healthy for me to be here, much less my children. I don’t want to leave, or our relationship to be over. But he insists that everything is my fault and unless I do as he says, then he sees divorce in our future. He has already demanded to keep his money separate and any extra money I have after paying monthly expenses and food, gas, etc. I should give him the extra to “get it out of my hands” so I don’t spend it. It’s getting to the point that my 10 year old had a bag packed in case we needed to leave because her dad was so mad. What can I do to help him, and all of us?? Or what are your suggestions? This has been going on for years.

[ForeverDad]

In general terms... you can'thelp him, that is, "fix" him.  He would have to want to improve his behavior and demands.  If after all these years he hasn't improved, then accept that he's extremely unlikely to seek meaningful help from professionals.

What is he doing with the money he's demanding from you?  Is he placing it in a marital account?  Or his own?  My grandfather married a woman with a poor perspective.  Just swap the he versus she detail.

I meant to comment on your spouse's double standard, her versus you.

Back in my youth my step-grandmother always had a bit of a smile on her face.  I was clueless then but I look back and wonder whether it was pasted on.  Well, I grew up and spent over 20 years as a religious volunteer.  My funds were tight all those years, I can't count the times I walked for miles in NYC just to save the cost of a subway ride.  Once when I was was still single I had returned home on a vacation and I recall just once, as he and I were on his sidewalk returning to his home, he gave me a folded $5 bill and asked me not to tell his wife.  Notice how my mother explained it in the post below.  He was a pleasant soul, an avid gardener and I treasured that, but that was the only monetary gift he ever gave me.

Her perspective is an entitled one.  Of course she likes ideas that are in her favor.  And of course your thoughts don't matter, if she can get away with it.

As my mother enlightened me when my grandfather had given me $5, just the once, and asked me not to tell his wife, my step-grandmother... "Her money is her money, his money is their money."

Many of us here have experienced "the double standard rules that apply to me but not to my spouse".

What your spouse is telling you, more or less, is that you can't be trusted with money.  Marriage ought to be based upon trust and as long as you're responsible with finances then his demand for leftover money doesn't make sense.

Also, insisting everything is your fault is unreasonable and worse.  No one is perfect.  Remember the family movie Dennis the Menace?  Innocent little Dennis wasn't perfect, but neither was grumpy Mr. Mitchell.  To be regularly blamed is unhealthy and dysfunctional behavior.

[Magicturtle]

Thank you Foreverdad- any insight besides my own is greatly appreciated. So, as a back story, we were both pretty poor at the beginning of the relationship. As I moved up through careers and school, I made more, then spent more on things we both wanted/needed. His anger has always been there about money, staying home (the only places I go are to church, and kids events- band, ball games, etc) He’s always invited yet he says he’s setting a good example by staying home and saving money. Well, things got pretty rough/ he came off his depression meds and decided he didn’t need them. One day-5 years ago-  he texted me and said he’d file for divorce if I didn’t bring everything we had in savings- which was $10,000. So, still being in school and with small kids, I withdrew all the money. He has put that and his disability check into his savings and checking- no joint anything. It’s still there- not to be touched for anything ever/ except to pass to the kids. It’s quite a bit more now because his check goes to that and my money goes to pay all the bills, wants, needs, etc. I’m so heartbroken because I do love him but don’t want me and the kids to be dealing with this any longer.

[EyesUp]

Hello Magicturtle.

You mentioned that your husband has a spinal injury.  Is he mobile and able to attend to his own needs, or does he rely on you and the kids for help?  I imagine that such a dependency could lead to frustration, insecurity, and perhaps resentment.

And perhaps your H focuses on what he can control - finances - in order to maintain some sense of control in the relationship and in the family. 

At any point, have you attempted to set some boundaries, by aligning on a family budget in which you each have some discretion and autonomy, but also agree not to make major spending decisions without some discussion?

My sense is that exploring something like this - and your husband's response to it - may help you see a path forward in or out of the current relationship.

Thinking a bit further ahead, it's a good idea to learn as much as possible about the nuts and bolts of separation and divorce before you're in the process.  Sometimes, learning the costs and consequences of the divorce process is enough for some people to make changes.  Other times, the diligence process may give one or both partners the confidence to proceed with confidence.

Like you, I had a long-term relationship with a high conflict partner.  Together for over 20 years, married for 14, 3 kids.  My uBPDxw accused me of financial abuse.  She quit her job, refused to agree to a budget, and refused to agree to any spending limits.  In retrospect, she clearly wanted more autonomy and control - but by quitting her job and relying entirely on my income she put us in a position that required a level of agreement and basic communication that she wasn't comfortable with - and blamed me for it.  It's not a perfect analogy to your situation, but in divorce, the dynamics are similar:  The law generally doesn't care how one spouse feels, rather the law expects that adults that have entered into a legal partnership (marriage) will behave like business partners and have some basic agreement.  When there isn't any agreement, the law will attempt to treat the partners equitably during the divorce process.

The point is: When a long term marriage is dissolved, most states will divide assets equally. Now is a good time to become familiar with how your state views division of marital assets.

My guess is that whatever is in that savings account will be divided equally - it probably doesn't matter whose name is on the account or who contributed the funds.

Similarly, if you're the breadwinner, you may find that you will have to pay alimony to your husband. How much and for how long is negotiable between you and your husband, but if you cannot agree than state guidelines will determine the amount.  You can do some research to get estimates.

It's a good idea to consult with a few attorneys - you'll want to try to find an atty with experience in cases like yours where financial abuse may be a factor that drives emotional conflict during the divorce process.

A key note here:  You'll want to do this as discretely as possible.  Once one party files, there are typically automatic financial restraining orders on the party who files.  And then automatic financial restraining orders apply to the other party once that party is served.  That can take some time, and if the parties are fighting and making emotional threats and fighting - that's often when the party with all the financial control drains the accounts and hides the money...  Long story short:  If you decide to proceed with a divorce, you'll want to consult closely with your atty re: how and when to notify your H.  If you already have access to statements, that's helpful - but if he's got all the control and you have no access - it's another thing to consider.

Sometimes just starting to think this through is enough to make some people back away from the process.  I doubled down and remained in an unhealthy relationship for at least 4-5 years because I was unable to even consider divorce - the consequences to the kids and finances seemed too dire. 

On the other hand, during that time, I slowly came to understand what divorce truly meant for me and for our kids, and what the practical considerations were - I interviewed many attys as I tried to wrap my head around the process and options.

Since you're posting on the Conflicted board, I hope that my comments help outline some options and considerations...

It sounds like you've arrived at a point where you have some conviction that you need to make a change - If you separate, do you have an idea if either your or your H can keep the current residence, or where you and the kids will move, or if your H has a place to go?  Sometimes just getting these first few pieces of the puzzle identified is enough to start to take some action. 

Please take care.   

[ForeverDad]

It's a good idea to consult with a few attorneys - you'll want to try to find an atty with experience in cases like yours where financial abuse may be a factor that drives emotional conflict during the divorce process.

A key note here:  You'll want to do this as discretely as possible.

As adults, you have rights and responsibilities.  So does your spouse.  And yes, if you can't come to agreement, typical in personality disordered (xPD) relationships, then the divorce process can be like a referee to reach an equitable outcome.  Not quite fair, but somewhat close and often better than before.

If separation and divorce are a possibility then you need to exercise caution and protect your rights to privacy and confidentiality.  No, you don't have to confess to demands whether you've been to see a family law attorney.

Most of us here have lived through the late night demands, "We will fix this tonight!"  Alas, what has developed over years cannot be fixed in a night, not without the reasonably normal spouse caving to every demand.

Let's compare two different scenarios... If you were expecting to mend the issues, then you'd share information so trust can be built. However, if you've concluded the relationship is too damaged to continue, then you would begin deciding what to share - such as about the children - and what not to share - your adult strategies.

Why?  If you share your strategies and and other details, then an oppositional spouse could be enabled (gifted power) to sabotage your efforts.

[Magicturtle]

EyesUp, those are great points and I have thought about some of them. This is his family’s land- he bought from a family member, we’ve remodeled and added on since we’ve been married. The house and remodeling is paid off. So, that’s not an issue. It does make me mad that this has been my home and the kids home that we would need to leave due to his ridiculous behavior and refusal to seek help. I do have access to his bank statements. I’m not considering any of that “family” money just because I’ve been told it’s never to be touched. His anger and rage over the smallest things are getting pretty bad. You’re right, he wants/needs control. He can function without us, has a truck he can drive and an electric wheelchair but we definitely make life easier for him. Foreverdad, I’m already to the point of not telling him my strategies in order to protect myself. I don’t disclose how much money I have left over at the end of the month (it’s not much) because he expects me to give it all to him. He already demands I give him the children’s ss checks.

[EyesUp]

This is his family’s land- he bought from a family member, we’ve remodeled and added on since we’ve been married. The house and remodeling is paid off. So, that’s not an issue. It does make me mad that this has been my home and the kids home that we would need to leave due to his ridiculous behavior and refusal to seek help. I do have access to his bank statements. I’m not considering any of that “family” money just because I’ve been told it’s never to be touched.

Magicturtle,
From experience, I understand how the emotional aspects can become intertwined with the practical aspects of separation.  If you agree that the marital home and "family" money can't be touched, you may be able to get to some agreement - however - in most states, given the length of your marriage - these would be considered part of the marital estate and divided equally.  If your H wishes to keep the house, he'd need to buy out your half of the equity.  Sometimes, in order to avoid this situation, some partners might agree to allow one to keep the house while the other keeps equal or similar value in retirement accounts or other savings (i.e., the "family" money). The point is: nothing is untouchable simply because your H says so - it's up to you to agree, or it's up to a judge to decide.  An atty can help you assess this based on your state's guidelines.  The threat of having a judge make an impartial judgement can be a powerful motivation for a spouse that's "stuck" to come to the table and make some agreement rather than risk losing property or some other settlement that might be less desirable. I'm not an atty and I don't know your state's guidelines - however these are important things to study and review with an atty.  You shouldn't automatically assume that you must walk away. 

If the "family" money is going to be a sticking point, do you think your H would be open to placing it (or some of it?) in an irrevocable trust with your kids named as beneficiaries?  That might be a way to respect and preserve his stated intentions as you go through the process of dividing assets.

In the most practical sense, if you were to separate - do you have a place to go or resources to find a new place to live?  I know that can be the most difficult thing...

[Magicturtle]

I could go to a couple of places until I get my own place. I really don’t want to have to uproot my kids or our small farm (sheep, chickens, ducks)

I wish I could find someone- maybe an attorney or therapist that could make him get help- so maybe he could leave to get help
And come home- not even sure if it works that way. I did see a place I think in CA that’s an 18 month residential program. But we are in nc.

Any other advice? In my head I know this isn’t a good environment for me or the kids. But it hurts my heart to know he’s going to lose everything that’s important to him.

[ForeverDad]

I wish I could find someone- maybe an attorney or therapist that could make him get help- so maybe he could leave to get help

Sadly, most family or divorce courts won't force a person to change.  They don't try to 'fix' the parents.  They deal with them as they are.  They focus on the facts and documented behavior.  That is a good perspective for you to have as well. 

In my case, divorce lasted two years and we were in and out of court following the divorce for six more years until we had a court order, improved in increments, that didn't lend itself to her entitlement.

Get a few confidential and private legal consultations so you're familiar with what laws and policies your state has for your family's circumstances and needs.  It does no good to fret when some of your concerns may have simple answers.  Important, do not share any of that with your spouse until attorney instructs you to share or inform.  Doing so too soon could be self-sabotaging.

But it hurts my heart to know he’s going to lose everything that’s important to him.

Yes, but whatever you do or don't do will change the current dysfunctional dynamic.  Do inquire and aim for positive changes.  You and your children are the priorities now.  What he does or doesn't do is his own responsibility.

[Magicturtle]

Foreverdad, thank you for your advice. I’ve been searching for legal consultant that knows about mental health and I keep coming up short. I’ll keep searching though.

I do know I need to prioritize my kids and myself- I am waiting on my dr to give me a name of a therapist for myself. I think my “hang up” is I DO care for him and love him and when things are good, they are pretty good. He will have a lonely existence without us being here, he has maybe 2 friends that he sees once in a while. And my other thing is I’M not the one with the problem- why should I have to give up my home, my kids half the time for HIS problem?

I have audio recordings of our interactions- that go back 5 years- and he was screaming the same things then as he does now. That’s a long time- and it was happening long before that.

Maybe I need my own therapist to help me break away from this situation. I’m sure things can be better - it’s like I’m hard wired to be here and never in a million years thought I’d put up with what I am. And I’m tired of it.

[ForeverDad]

My divorce lawyer knew I believed my spouse has a Personality Disorder.  However he never once ventured into mental health angles.  Yes, he called her crazy, bat---- crazy and f------ nuts.  Yet he did more than a decent job.

So don't hold out for a lawyer who says he deals with PDs.  If one has court and trial experience dealing with "crazy" that may be sufficient.  But I would expect some lawyers are out there who might claim more ability - though weak on experience - just to get another client.

That's a reason why we encourage interviewing at least a few lawyers for the best fit overall.