First time posting

[NotHereButHere]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here so forgive any rules I may have missed.
My therapist recommended that I read “Stop walking on eggshells” and it was wild to see my whole experience summed up in a book that I couldn’t quite figure out how to explain over 12 years.

Like many here my situation seems complicated. I have always been told I am a quiet and patient person which seems to be the root driver of why I’ve stayed for so long in spite of the obvious problems. My wife, or soon to be ex wife, has not been formally diagnosed but with that aside I think the behavior I have experienced would fit in here.

I have ignored the red flags for years, I would make excuses for her and actually thought, “she will calm down when we get older” because we were young and thought we were in love. I thought I could handle the difficulties because “nothing worth it is ever easy”. I thought I could be strong and things would eventually work out. But… then we had kids and that changed my perspective. I didn’t have the self worth to prevent the abuse to myself but as I saw it happening to my kids I had to do something.

Some of the major eye openers were when she physically beat our 2 year old son for spilling her Starbucks while I was at work. I had to rush home from a new job because she was screaming in the phone about how he’s bleeding everywhere and she “didn’t give a PLEASE READ”. She felt bad about it and we tried to move past it as just a mistake.

The physical abuse is hard to ignore. But the daily emotional abuse was easier to make excuses for but took a bigger toll on me in the end.
I left and took the kids when it became too much and moved in with my dad. I called CPS and stopped talking with her. Eventually we started to have supervised visits at a church. She convinced me to start bringing the kids over to see her at her apartment and we started to try to make things work. I thought that the jolt of having her kids taken away would make her realize that her behavior was not okay. But that had the opposite effect. She now saw herself as a victim and I abandoned her “for no reason”.

Of course I have not been perfect either, I’ve struggled on and off with alcohol for much of the relationship.
Over new years my son (6) said that he saw a video where someone painted better than her. She was so upset that she started up about everything that I have ever done wrong and said she thinks we should leave. When I got up to pack my things she threw my wallet in the top of her closet. I pulled the box down from where she threw the wallet and she choked me out of rage. When she realized what she did she tried to “hug” me to keep me from leaving. After she eventually calmed down I was able to get my son and leave.
After being away from her I fell back into drinking for a few days.
Now where we stand is I am the bad one for drinking and I should be perusing her. She’s leaving little manipulative clues to make me jealous or try to chase her but I’m just so tired of this game.

Anyway there’s much more to the story and I don’t want to over post but that is the gist of what I’m going through. I’m having a hard time with accepting what my next step should be even if I intuitively know the right answer here.

Thanks to any and all that read this, it helps just to type it out sometimes

[ForeverDad]

Most of us here never did get a diagnosis, in fact my domestic court studiously avoided any mental health issues.  After all, I was no one, not a trained professional expert.  I was only the man who married, lived with my spouse for over a decade and I only knew her best, yet that meant nothing in comparison to officialdom's policies and procedures.

I want to add, though surely you know this by now, but you must take both child abuse and domestic violence seriously.  You are the one in the best position to protect the children.  Your stbEx probably seizes all the attention, even demands everything when she rages, yet it is your children who must be your priority.

[SinisterComplex]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here so forgive any rules I may have missed.
My therapist recommended that I read “Stop walking on eggshells” and it was wild to see my whole experience summed up in a book that I couldn’t quite figure out how to explain over 12 years.

Like many here my situation seems complicated. I have always been told I am a quiet and patient person which seems to be the root driver of why I’ve stayed for so long in spite of the obvious problems. My wife, or soon to be ex wife, has not been formally diagnosed but with that aside I think the behavior I have experienced would fit in here.

I have ignored the red flags for years, I would make excuses for her and actually thought, “she will calm down when we get older” because we were young and thought we were in love. I thought I could handle the difficulties because “nothing worth it is ever easy”. I thought I could be strong and things would eventually work out. But… then we had kids and that changed my perspective. I didn’t have the self worth to prevent the abuse to myself but as I saw it happening to my kids I had to do something.

Some of the major eye openers were when she physically beat our 2 year old son for spilling her Starbucks while I was at work. I had to rush home from a new job because she was screaming in the phone about how he’s bleeding everywhere and she “didn’t give a PLEASE READ”. She felt bad about it and we tried to move past it as just a mistake.

The physical abuse is hard to ignore. But the daily emotional abuse was easier to make excuses for but took a bigger toll on me in the end.
I left and took the kids when it became too much and moved in with my dad. I called CPS and stopped talking with her. Eventually we started to have supervised visits at a church. She convinced me to start bringing the kids over to see her at her apartment and we started to try to make things work. I thought that the jolt of having her kids taken away would make her realize that her behavior was not okay. But that had the opposite effect. She now saw herself as a victim and I abandoned her “for no reason”.

Of course I have not been perfect either, I’ve struggled on and off with alcohol for much of the relationship.
Over new years my son (6) said that he saw a video where someone painted better than her. She was so upset that she started up about everything that I have ever done wrong and said she thinks we should leave. When I got up to pack my things she threw my wallet in the top of her closet. I pulled the box down from where she threw the wallet and she choked me out of rage. When she realized what she did she tried to “hug” me to keep me from leaving. After she eventually calmed down I was able to get my son and leave.
After being away from her I fell back into drinking for a few days.
Now where we stand is I am the bad one for drinking and I should be perusing her. She’s leaving little manipulative clues to make me jealous or try to chase her but I’m just so tired of this game.

Anyway there’s much more to the story and I don’t want to over post but that is the gist of what I’m going through. I’m having a hard time with accepting what my next step should be even if I intuitively know the right answer here.

Thanks to any and all that read this, it helps just to type it out sometimes

Welcome to the fam my friend.  Feel free to ease yourself into this and share as much as you want to and ask as many questions as you need to. We will have your back here for sure.

In the meantime please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[NotHereButHere]

Most of us here never did get a diagnosis, in fact my domestic court studiously avoided any mental health issues.  After all, I was no one, not a trained professional expert.  I was only the man who married, lived with my spouse for over a decade and I only knew her best, yet that meant nothing in comparison to officialdom's policies and procedures.

I want to add, though surely you know this by now, but you must take both child abuse and domestic violence seriously.  You are the one in the best position to protect the children.  Your stbEx probably seizes all the attention, even demands everything when she rages, yet it is your children who must be your priority.

Thank you! That’s defiantly true she would demand her way with or without her rage fits. After choking me she even tried to get me to apologize. I told her she didn’t even say sorry for attacking me and she said something along the lines of, “I’m sorry that you never support me and I had enough” which was more of a fight than an apology.

After all of that she’s still playing the victim and hasn’t apologized once. She asked me for money today to get the kids clothes because she said she there was a really good sale somewhere. Instead of getting our kids clothes she bought herself a pink lingerie and and sent me a picture of it and said I should take her somewhere nice for Valentine’s Day.

We don’t live together and have not been communicating like a couple would and she pulls something like that. I didn’t want her to get it and I’m pissed she spent it on herself. She said it was for me but how is that if we aren’t together. The manipulation keeps going and many subtle ways.

She changed her iPhone picture to one she looks very seductive in for it to update her picture on my own device, so I changed it to an angry picture of squidward to avoid getting sucked back in. She is the bold and the brash.

Thank you for the supportive words. With kids involved there is no excusing the physical or mental abuse.

[NotHereButHere]

Welcome to the fam my friend.  Feel free to ease yourself into this and share as much as you want to and ask as many questions as you need to. We will have your back here for sure.

In the meantime please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thank you for welcoming me, I appreciate reading the stories here and it does help to have a community.

[ForeverDad]

That’s defiantly true she would demand her way with or without her rage fits. After choking me she even tried to get me to apologize.

After all of that she’s still playing the victim and hasn’t apologized once.

It is assumed victims would feel terrorized and fearful. Too many of our exes have been such unrepentant aggressive "victims".  That's why I recorded to protect myself, I felt I had to prove I wasn't the aggressive one.

What if you had proof you're not the one creating conflict?  Even the neighbors may not step forward or they may not know what goes on behind closed doors.

I faced that dilemma way back when my divorce was looming.  She was at first contemplating, and later making, allegations how horrible I was.  I fretted that outsiders didn't know what really went on behind closed doors.  We didn't have today's fancy cell phones back then.  So I bought some voice recorders.  I eventually had three since I could never predict when they'd fill up or their batteries lost charge.  Oh my, I got documentation to defend myself, sad reality was court didn't care much, though the agencies surrounding the court did listen sometimes.

I never waved it in front of then-spouse's face, I was not trying to create an incident.  Sometimes she even taunted me to record, believe it or not.  However, I made sure I had this stance... "I'm recording myself, if others get recorded too, so be it."  This way you'd have documentation you're not the one creating scenes or inciting conflict.

I've been here since 2006 and never noticed anyone posting they got in serious trouble for recording.  However in all those years a handful here in very tense custody situations were warned by judges to not record the kids.  Judges don't want children caught in the middle of disputes.

[NotHereButHere]

It is assumed victims would feel terrorized and fearful. Too many of our exes have been such unrepentant aggressive "victims".  That's why I recorded to protect myself, I felt I had to prove I wasn't the aggressive one.

Taking a video of her acting out seems to be one of the best things I ever did. She was able to put on an act like she was perfect in public or as presented on social media. No one really believed me until I took those videos(it was in my pocket so really just audio). Once I had some kind of proof is when I exited the living arrangement. My kids are by far so much happier than they were 3 years ago when we left.

I do feel guilty for trying to make things work in the past year with her. I knew better and I know now to trust my instincts that if something feels wrong there is a reason for that. I ended up talking with her on the phone last night until around 2 in the morning. She was starting to shift all of the blame onto me for everything she did, of course everything I did, and for the way things were going. It’s my fault she quit her job, it’s my fault her car broke down, and it’s my fault that our relationship failed. I owned up to it and said yes it is my fault because I am responsible for how our kids turn out and for their safety so I removed them from an unsafe situation.

She was trying to say that she would pick up the kids for the weekend and started making “plans” so I had to be assertive with my response. She is supposed to have supervised visits but that was stopped while we tried to reconcile things and we’re seeing her at her apartment every weekend.

It was tough because my kids are pretty open about not wanting to go over there especially without me. That’s a hard thing to tell someone that their kids don’t want to see them because they are afraid of getting yelled at or in trouble over the slightest mistakes or wrong words.

She then turned it into how unfit I am as a father(referring to my drinking) but I havent touched alchohol in over a year until this last slip up. She tried to say that our kids were lying to start a fight between us. She has this idea that our 9YO daughter is a threat to her because "she's another woman I am paying attention to" which is some of the most bizarre reasoning I've ever heard.

I know it is unlikely to remove her from their lives completely and that really isn't my goal. I wish I could help her, I've tried for years but when the topic is her improvement I can never seem to be on her side and am seen as an instant enemy because I didn't validate that she is perfect and without flaw.

Thanks again for welcoming me here. I've been reading other stories still and the way other speak is refreshing. I broke out of the echo chamber of this toxic dialogue and it has been really nice to hear reason again...

[kells76]

Hi NotHereButHere and

It's good to hear that you were able to bring the kids with you when you went to stay with your dad. Protecting them is your #1 priority -- so kudos to you for recognizing that.

Do you have any kind of temporary parenting plan in place -- anything official, or documented, or any kind of emailed schedule that's agreed on?

When she says she wants the kids for the weekend, does she mean Friday afternoon through Sunday night? Or just a day? Or...?

Without any official legal parenting plan, you aren't required to agree to anything or make anything happen -- though it's also not good to keep the kids out of contact. FaceTime/Zoom/Skype can work to make sure the kids are in touch with their mom.

She has this idea that our 9YO daughter is a threat to her because "she's another woman I am paying attention to" which is some of the most bizarre reasoning I've ever heard.

pwBPD find it difficult to see their kids as independent entities with their own thoughts, feelings, and experiences. They also find it difficult to identify that their feelings come from inside of themselves, and that everyone else doesn't feel the same way they do.

If your W struggles with jealousy, then yeah, this may be how it shows up: she isn't able to process that your D9 is a distinct person in a unique role (the child) in the family, and then attributes her own jealousy/fear to the relationship between you and D9. Not healthy.

How did you find out she thought that? Did she email/text it to you?

...

It's good that you recognize that drinking is an issue. What kind of support do you have to stay away from alcohol? Is your dad supportive?

And are you considering getting an official parenting plan in place? It could protect your kids.

...

Fill us in whenever works best for you;

kells76

[Pook075]

Hey NotHere,

This may or may not help, but our stories are very similar except for one major detail...I stayed for 24 years.  Early on it was violence (not as bad as yours, just getting punched/kicked/slapped) and around year seven I decided that I just wasn't going to argue anymore.  I just learned to ignore her behavior (always on the run, never shopping or cleaning up, never taking responsibility, etc).  We did stop arguing and the violence stopped, but we continued to drift further and further apart without me realizing it at all. 

One day she just left and I was dumbfounded, it was two weeks after buying her a new car and a few days after booking a cruise together.  We were also about to become grandparents...but she was miserable and hiding it well.

The thing was, there were massive red flags in my story as well, and basically for everyone here.  My mom pointed them out within weeks of us getting married and I was 100% oblivious to them.

After we separated, I received about 15 years of my wife's rage and disordered thinking in about a two-week span.  Truthfully, it felt demonic and I was so shocked that she could be so cruel...but from her viewpoint that had been building and building with unhealthy thought after unhealthy thought.  Without those drag out arguments, her disordered thinking convinced her that I was a pure monster over time, and she was hell-bent on paying me back.

Eighteen months later, we're civil and finalizing the divorce next month.  I honestly feel sorry for her but no longer feel responsible for whatever's going on inside her mind.  I tried to help and failed, but it's really not on me just like it isn't on you.  Hopefully in time you can reach a place where you can co-parent responsibly and get past all the venom that she's carrying.

Or, if you do want to try to work things out, then it starts with understanding that your wife is sick and struggles to control her emotions.  That doesn't make her a bad person...but it doesn't make her a victim either.  She has a role to play in this and has to own up to that for you to have a path forward. 

I wish you luck in any case and just know that you're going to be okay in time.

[NotHereButHere]

It's good to hear that you were able to bring the kids with you when you went to stay with your dad. Protecting them is your #1 priority -- so kudos to you for recognizing that.

Do you have any kind of temporary parenting plan in place -- anything official, or documented, or any kind of emailed schedule that's agreed on?

When she says she wants the kids for the weekend, does she mean Friday afternoon through Sunday night? Or just a day? Or...?

Without any official legal parenting plan, you aren't required to agree to anything or make anything happen -- though it's also not good to keep the kids out of contact. FaceTime/Zoom/Skype can work to make sure the kids are in touch with their mom.

   Thank you, we have been split up for about 3 years now but recently tried to reconcile over the past year. When I left, CPS drafted a safety plan and I got a lawyer and we went to court. In course we went to mediation where she was given supervised visits every other weekend at a visitation center. Before those visits she went a whole year without seeing the kids or even trying to call and check on them. We cancelled with the visitation service since we were trying to work things out, she told me she was going to church and she seemed like she had gotten a bit better. The last ruling from the course was to keep up the visitation at the visitation center for a year and then we would go back to mediation. So she was never given permission to take the kids unsupervised. When she said that she was going to come get the kids for the weekend I felt like she was majorly pushing to see what she could get away with, if I let her take them once that would set a new precedent in court. My kids do not want to go without me and my daughter hasn't wanted to go even with me there. They do have video calls at times and she seems to use that to criticize everything.
   Today she wanted to talk so she called while I was at work, when it inevitably led to a conversation about how horrible I am, I told her I was at work (I work from home) and do not have the time or energy to argue while I was at work so I hung up and ignored the dozens of calls that followed. She called my daughter while I was at work and I could hear her arguing with her from the other room. I told my daughter to hang up if she was being mean and that is what happened. She started yelling at her and my daughter hung up on her so she tried to tell me I had to ground her and punish her for "treating her like dog s..."
   It is wrong to try to pull our kids into the middle of it but I also feel like she needs to know that her own kids are scared of her and don't want to be around her because it will always go badly. Ive tried to put it nicely with understanding and support but she feels like anything other than praise is a put down.

pwBPD find it difficult to see their kids as independent entities with their own thoughts, feelings, and experiences. They also find it difficult to identify that their feelings come from inside of themselves, and that everyone else doesn't feel the same way they do.

If your W struggles with jealousy, then yeah, this may be how it shows up: she isn't able to process that your D9 is a distinct person in a unique role (the child) in the family, and then attributes her own jealousy/fear to the relationship between you and D9. Not healthy.

How did you find out she thought that? Did she email/text it to you?

   She is very direct with what she is unhappy about. She told my daughter that she was attaching her and out to get her and that she was bullying her. She said much more than that but that was the last time they saw each other in person. She has called the kids names and puts them down in very emotionally disturbing ways. After my daughter hung up on her today she kept texting me crazy things while I was working. She wanted me to call immediately "or I didn't respect her". She then said she was just going to give up and walk away but I have not responded or called since then.

   I told her that she needed help and I don't want her to disappear, but we cannot continue to communicate this way. I am trying very hard to not engage in these arguments because there is no real logic to the arguments and it will just perpetually keep going. She wants me to apologize constantly for anything and everything, and I have for what I feel I have made mistakes with. But there is a point where I just can't do it any more. I don't owe her an apology for wanting to get more than 4 hours of sleep or for wanting to focus on work while I'm at work. I don't owe her more apologies for things that I have already apologized for years ago. Getting her to apologize for choking me was like pulling teeth and she still framed it as "Im sorry that you made me do that".

It's good that you recognize that drinking is an issue. What kind of support do you have to stay away from alcohol? Is your dad supportive?

I absolutely recognize that it was a problem, I never tried to defend my drinking because that has taken me to some bad places. After I had that slip up she felt like she was absolved of all responsibility because I drank and now I am not allowed to have concerns. The fighting is absurd and I can't stand the thought of picking up the phone. But its like there are two versions of her. The bad version has been front and center for over 3 months straight now and I couldn't take any more.

It is hard to not gravitate back to wanting to work things out. I really wish that they could but I just dont see how anyone could take the never ending criticism and berating while being expected to litterally worship the ground she walks on. It is hard, but typing out everything does help. I may have gotten carried away with ranting on this one and I cant even seem to form it all out correctly to express the extent of how not normal this all is.

[NotHereButHere]

Hey everyone!

   I am posting an update here just because. I have been reading some of the stories here still and they do help to recognize my own patterns in what happens all across the world from another perspective.

I've seen that I am not the only one who feels guilty for standing up for myself.

Neither am I alone in ping ponging back and forth in wanting to reach out to my exPwBPD feeling responsible for them.

I am not alone in the madness and I would never wish codependency on my worst enemies, but it's still nice to know I'm not the only one.

I have been working on trying to focus onyself and my kids and piecing back together whaty life could be. I am doing all of the things I never had the time for and tryo g to rediscovery interests. All of my needs and wants have been backbirnered for so long I didn't even know what I wanted for myself anymore. I started listening to music again, started playing games with my kids, watched some movies and none of these things would be possible if I was still puting all ofy effort into trying to reason with the unreasonable.

I made a list of important things to do that I have put off for so long, and I've accomplished more in the past week than I have in the rest of the year combined. It's not that I was being lazy but there was simply no time for my needs before. I haven't been to the dentist in 8 years and I have an appointment tomorrow for x-rays. I got insurance on my car and renewed the registration. I took half the day off today and brought my kids to the dentist and the doctor for checkups. Even my work performance has drastically improved.

All of this from drastically limiting my contact with my xWBPD.
That being said I know that after some time I always start to wonder, what of she's getting better, am I overreacting like she says I am? I know that she is bad for me and bad fory kids, bit I can't help myself in rembering the good moments.

Like a moth flying into a flame I am always tempted to get drawn back into the chaos hoping it would be different. Bit theoth always gets burnt and can't change the fire. So I made a list of good things about her, nothing including her looks. I filled up a page with things that I like about who she is as a person and a partner. It seemed very compelling and it was all true and I believe that there is that good side of her.

Then I made another list of thing I don't like about her, and that list was over twice as long and took half the time to write. I know that I have been conditioned to make excuses for her, it's what I am good at. I still have a strange dynamic of wanting to talk to her but also not because once I do, I would be locked in to her expectations with no room for my boundaries.

I still have not seen her since she choked me over New Years, we have kids together so complete no contact isn't exactly an option. But I'm not hopless. The most important button on my phone has been the silent call button. She doesn't like to text when she contacts I think to gain an edge. She tries to call while I am working to have a difficult conversation when I can't focus completely and it's never a quick 5 minute conversation it would last hours until she gets what she wants. She wants me to chase her while she runs away. As strange as that sounds I get that it would make her feel irresistible and validate her doubts about herself. Bit that's not my responsibility anymore. I honeslty am just waiting until she finds another person to fall I to that trap. But I'm not taking that bait. I know what is to come, she will find someone and try to leave subtle hi D's to make me jealous and when it doesn't that WILL lead to things not so subtle. I feel like this time I am far more prepared because I have detached from this fantacy that she has mashed me into. It's not real and it doesn't feel right when I try to cram myself into that fantacy anymore.

Thank you all for your responses and for this community. I will still keep checking back here every so often and post an update or reach out when things are feeling difficult to process. This really has been an eye opener, and now I see how dangerous it was living with my eyes closed.