SM Seeking Guidance

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello Everyone-

Behaviors from my two youngest stepchildren has become extreme, cruel, mean, disrespectful, and is usually directed toward me (SM), which is creating a very toxic environment at home.  Developing a relationship with them has proved to be more than challenging, almost impossible, and it seems that as more time passes, it worsens.

My husband and I have been married for 4 yrs. The BPD mother has partial custody of 2 of the 3 children. The two youngest children spend school holidays and one month with her each summer throughout the year, as she lives in another state.  The oldest son was removed from her care a few years ago, as a result of extreme verbal abuse from his BL mother. He has no contact with her.

From what I have learned from reading various books and resources about BPD, I believe the mother fears abandonment and feels threatened. While trying to remain loyal to their mom,they go out of their way to be disloyal to me. I truly believe they want to like me...but are afraid to. And...the more I attempt to engage with them, build a relationship with them, the more they pull back and exhibit behaviors.

I have made it very clear to them on several occasions, that I am not here to replace their mom, be their mom, never will...but am here to love their dad and be there for them, whatever their needs are...more like a friend/parent.

I believe I am a very strong person, and can endure a lot, but this is taking a toll on me, my sanity, and my health in general. I am not accustomed to this type of verbal abuse from children, and have been successful in the past and present in developing strong, healthy relationships with adults/children of all ages...which comes from years of experience as a teacher, school principal, and Asst Supt in a school district for over 30 years.

If anyone has experienced something similar and can provide guidance and/or resources you have found to be particularly helpful, I would greatly appreciate it. Just trying to navigate through this difficult time and regain my sanity and health.

Thank you.

[georgiaSM]

Hello Everyone-

Behaviors from my two youngest stepchildren has become extreme, cruel, mean, disrespectful, and is usually directed toward me (SM), which is creating a very toxic environment at home.  Developing a relationship with them has proved to be more than challenging, almost impossible, and it seems that as more time passes, it worsens.

My husband and I have been married for 4 yrs. The BPD mother has partial custody of 2 of the 3 children. The two youngest children spend school holidays and one month with her each summer throughout the year, as she lives in another state.  The oldest son was removed from her care a few years ago, as a result of extreme verbal abuse from his BL mother. He has no contact with her.

From what I have learned from reading various books and resources about BPD, I believe the mother fears abandonment and feels threatened. While trying to remain loyal to their mom,they go out of their way to be disloyal to me. I truly believe they want to like me...but are afraid to. And...the more I attempt to engage with them, build a relationship with them, the more they pull back and exhibit behaviors.

I have made it very clear to them on several occasions, that I am not here to replace their mom, be their mom, never will...but am here to love their dad and be there for them, whatever their needs are...more like a friend/parent.

I believe I am a very strong person, and can endure a lot, but this is taking a toll on me, my sanity, and my health in general. I am not accustomed to this type of verbal abuse from children, and have been successful in the past and present in developing strong, healthy relationships with adults/children of all ages...which comes from years of experience as a teacher, school principal, and Asst Supt in a school district for over 30 years.

If anyone has experienced something similar and can provide guidance and/or resources you have found to be particularly helpful, I would greatly appreciate it. Just trying to navigate through this difficult time and regain my sanity and health.

Thank you.

[Pook075]

If anyone has experienced something similar and can provide guidance and/or resources you have found to be particularly helpful, I would greatly appreciate it. Just trying to navigate through this difficult time and regain my sanity and health.

Hello and thanks for sharing!

I'm definitely not an expert on this topic but I can provide a few tidbits.  First, the BPD mom is your husband's ex, so there's some animosity there that will always spill into your relationship.  BPD individuals like to be portrayed as the victim, so I'm sure they hear their fair share of blame casted in your husband's direction.  And you, you're the new her, so you get even more venom for even existing in his life.  How dare he be happy after everything he did....

Second, this is ultimately your husband's fight...he needs to create those boundaries with his ex and the kids.  If they treat you poorly, he needs to step in.  Why?  Because if it's you, then the ex hates you even more and encourages the kids to behave poorly.  You don't want to be in the middle of this.

What can you do personally?  Lead with kindness and empathy, just let the kids know that you're on their side.  I'm sure it will be an uphill battle, but you have to be patient since they're hearing different opinions when they're with their mom.  You could also try engaging the mom to try to make her an ally, but that's a very slippery slope that could easily backfire.  I'd save that for a last option unless you already have somewhat of a relationship there.

Again though, lean on your husband and let him be the "bad guy" for now.  Unfortunately, it has to be that way.

[ForeverDad]

I would agree that there's probably too much animosity on the part of ex's perceptions for there to be success in reaching out to her, if ever, perhaps.  The relationship between you and her is only connected by a very thin string (as if you were connecting family ties) and virtually no legal link.

We cannot communicate with children here, this site is for adults.  Besides, we're remote and anonymous.  But all is not lost.  While you can implement our insight, experience and collective wisdom in your relationship with the kids, that may at first be of limited impact.

Since your H (husband) has majority time with all his children, probably he has legal custody or at least Decision Making or Tie Breaker status, right?  I would highly recommend that your husband consider speaking with the pediatrician for counseling recommendations for the children.

When I was mired in family court my lawyer told me "Courts love counseling!"  However, in contrast, likely his ex would hate that - both for herself and the kids - she would likely object and overreact.  It seems though that she may rant and rage but she's unlikely to legally block counseling.

Therefore, in addition to recommending the children get counseling I'd encourage him to think long and hard before involving (or even informing based on his court orders?) his ex before them starting counseling.  If he's anything like us here, he's one of the Nice Guys and Nice Gals whose nature is to try to be up front and fair.  Sadly, that does not work well when dealing with a person with an acting-out (harming others) personality disorder.  So while his inclination may be to share his good intentions with the ex, that sense of "overly fair" could result in sabotaging the welfare of the kids' who need the benefit of counseling.

[kells76]

Hello georgiaSM from one stepmom to another, and

Stepparenting when BPD is involved is next level stuff. I never would've survived without this group (and a marriage counselor, and an individual counselor... the more support you have, the better, when BPD is in play).

To get a better sense of your situation, how old are the 3 kids? When you mention that the oldest son was removed from her care, can you share some more about that -- were the authorities involved? Is he living with Dad right now, and is Mom technically or legally entitled to any parenting time with him?

Like ForeverDad mentions, counseling may be really important in your situation -- though, counterintuitively, possibly counseling for just the kids, or for the kids plus Dad (family counseling), and/or for you and your H together.

What does your H see of the issues that you see? Does it happen in front of him? If so, how does he respond?

Hang in there -- this is not easy stuff.

kells76

[ForeverDad]

Kells is right, counseling is not limited to the children.  Counselors are an excellent approach for all, in whatever structure necessary for objectivity to win over subjective perceptions, possibly fomented by their mother.

My son had counseling from age 3 to 11.  Weirdly, it was his possessive mother who started counseling, though the real purpose was to garner negative advocates to join her in her Blamefest.  During that time I went from alternate weekends and no custody in the temp order to incremental improvements over the years until I had both custody and majority time.  (For us temp orders last a long, long time, so to be honest they're not that "temporary".)

The counselors thought when the divorce was final they could step back.  Then when I got custody they thought they could step back. It wasn't until I moved from equal time to majority time during the school year that our son had his 'graduation' day.

The counselors typically let the parent sit in for a few minutes for updates and again after the session ended.  Depending on the age of the child, it could be basic play therapy.

However, as adults, the parent(s) do not choose counseling from the children's counselors.  The counselors may coordinate their discussions amongst themselves, but adult counseling is separate from children's counselors.

Here I sometimes mention that for us Nice Guys and Nice Gals we can be self-sabotaging.  Our otherwise excellent traits of fairness and niceness can sabotage us, it might put us at risk of enabling the disordered ex to obstruct our parenting.  Reminds me of the time I sought a counselor for an update for my son.  When I asked whether I should alternate letting his mother bring him, she got this yucky face and firmly said No.  Of course, by that time I had full custody so joint custody wasn't a factor.  See how my niceness and sense of fairness, above and beyond the legal structure, could have sabotaged us?

[georgiaSM]

Thank you to all who took the time to reply to my post....so helpful.

To answer a few questions and to follow-up...

In regard to why BLmom lost custody of oldest son...
She and the two younger children came home later than expected from a bbq. In front of the two younger kids, she told him... "We decided to stay at the bbq a little longer, so you would have plenty of time kill yourself if you wanted to". My husband filed for emergency custody. He then tried to give his mom a second chance about a year later...(my husband has always told the oldest that he supports whatever relationship he wants to have with his mom). On his second visit, the mother made another cruel comment, this time about the acne on his face and back, and told them that if she looked the way he did, she would just kill herself. He was beyond upset. After that incident, no communication has occurred b/w oldest son and BLmom-ex.

As far as counseling/therapy...all of the kids have been in therapy on and off the past 6 years. The oldest who is now 17 went  for 6 years and stopped about one year ago, as he felt like he was in a good place and the therapist also agreed. Initially, he struggled with depression and suicide ideation, and the last four years or so...more general anxiety.   He knows he can go back anytime if he feels the need to do so. The youngest boy was in therapy before we moved but is no longer going. And the teenage daughter continues to go to therapy on a weekly basis. Unfortunately, before moving to Georgia, the BLmom-ex repeatedly threatened the two therapists the kids were seeing, so each one severed services, as they feared for their safety. Each one filed restraining orders against her.  Fortunately, I have two close friends that are licensed therapists, and each have encouraged me to visit with them about anything and everything. One was previously married to a BLP so she often has great insight based on her experiences with her three children and the BLex. This has proven to be helpful..but do believe that my husband and I need to both see someone together. I also think having the youngest son talk w/ someone would be beneficial if we can find a therapist who specializes in personality disorders...and has worked with children dealing with issues associated with BPD.

As far as communicating with the BLex. This will not happen. Nor do I wish to have any form of relationship with her. My husband and I both have communication restraining orders against the BLex as a result of her verbal abuse and ongoing threats. We can only communicate through Family Wizard where communication can be seen by the judge.  She breaks these rules and has yelled/threatened me at our front door, when I have been in the car at pickup/drop off time,  and has texted my phone number as well. I have just blocked her. In addition, she occasionally texts inappropriate messages in the Family Wizard.

[livednlearned]

What is the verbal abuse like?

How do you typically respond?

It does sound like the kids are in a loyalty bind with her. What ages are two youngest?

With my stepdaughter (now 26), I had to get very very specific and think of solutions that did not allow her behaviors to create a wedge between her dad and me.

I also learned that the more I tolerated her behaviors, the worse things got. You might be saying, "I'm a tolerant person who is here for you," but they might be hearing "Go ahead, walk all over me."

With SD26 I had to figure out what I actually had control over and focus my attention there. One by one I figured out how to cut her off at the pass, although she has BPD traits and the manifestation of those traits are largely covert.

You don't mention how your H is handling the verbal abuse, which will matter a lot because the biological parent can make the solution more challenging (often unwittingly). Not impossible to solve, just more challenging. If he was in a relationship with a verbally abusive person, there's a good chance he tolerated it then, and may tolerate it now with his kids.

[GaGrl]

Greetings from another stepmother!

When my H and I married, our adult children were all in their 20s, so our situation was somewhat different. His three children each had left home as quickly as legally possible. In addition, two of his children are estranged from each other. Only my son lives in our city, so we don't physically see each other often.

H's children's experience growing up with an uBPD/NPD mother was challenging. He was career military officer, and his now-ex engaged in near-constant affairs. His children saw too much and heard too much, in addition to the emotional and verbal abuse directed at each of them individually. By the time they were teens, each of them were asking why he didn't divorce her.

I found that my stepchildren experienced a combination of relief that their dad was in a stable marriage, and they appreciated the way I interacted with them That was easy -- I never knew them as kids. There was some adjustments, especially with the youngest daughter, on little things like my sitting in the front seat next to my husband, or her realizing that he truly made me a priority.

We made it -- the blends by took a couple of years.

I have NO contact with the Ex. She is severely dysfunctional and, as she has aged, has become paranoid to a degree never seen in their marriage. She has had a partner for 20+ years, who periodically threatens to leave. She has been violent and has been arrested three times for instances involving her boyfriends.

I would not suggest any contact, ever. And let your husband take the lead with the step kids and messages to her. Any help from school counselors or private counselors is invaluable. My stepdaughter and granddaughter are currently in therapy for anxiety disorder, and they are working through it.

And patience.

And time.