Plan to commence the divorce and the restraining order the first week of March

[AlleyOop23]

My stbx and two daughters are gone this week on trips. One kid is on a class trip the other is with her mother on their own separate trip.

Working with my lawyers and my family schedule the plan to commence the divorce and the restraining order the first week of March. My kids and family do not know my plans. I’ll spend the week furnishing a rented house.

As I look ahead my biggest concern is my own eventual overwhelming guilt and sense of obligation. Yesterday I was playing a board game with the kids in my ST BX set down and started soliciting plans for a vacation in June. I find it so bizarre. The day before that we talked for an hour and a half she aired all her grievances about how her life in this marriage have turned out. I told her that I couldn't understand how she could think anything would go anywhere when she criticized me to the point of anger seven the last nine days. Moreover I told her just because I didn't bring up every day doesn't mean that moved on from needing her to deal with the physical abuse issues culminating in her kicking me out of the house under threat of violence and false police allegations three weeks ago. I told her she needed to admit she had a problem and get help with it. I pointed out that because she had hid my medication classes to leverage my departure I now hid them when I was in the house.

She said she could possibly work on these issues with me until I made a safe place for her and as far as carrying round meds and glasses she said she had plenty of trauma of her own to carry around. (She is referring to her childhood).

As I survey my plans I try to realize what the situation would look like to me as an observer. In the last 18 months she has escalated. She has shoved me, blocked me from leaving the bathroom, thrown a book at my head, pinned me, punch me in the chest, hit me repeatedly with a pillow in a rage, about three weeks ago took a large photograph my dad took off the wall and started shoving me around with it yelling at me to take it and leave, through my dry cleaning into the yard in the rain piece by piece while yelling get the F out, has gotten her face right up in mine while yelling as recently as yesterday and three weeks ago spent the entire day demanding that I move out by text message, bought moving boxes and packing tape hid my glasses and meds and stood over me demanding I move out, telling me I would have to physically assault her to stay and that if the police were called I could be sure that it would be me taken to jail.

So I look at all that in her refusal to acknowledge a problem or even discuss any of it all and wonder why am having any concern about future misgivings. All of that is aside from the constant blame of criticism and frequent yelling. But just often enough I know she will drop in a moment of vulnerability like planning a vacation or like last night she asked me to reassure her that the clothes she had chosen for the trip looked okay on her given that she has gained some weight recently due to perimenopause. In moments like that I am pulled in by helping her and by feeling needed and helpful.

The first week of March is about two months before my 13-year-olds bat mitzvah. I know I'm going to get a lot of disbelief over my timing. Our entire extended family will show up here while things are still raw is what I think will happen. But try as I might I cannot muster the guilt to wait until after the event. First of all I know the abuse will ramp up in advance of the event as it does before any holiday. Second I have now for year Moving this out until after the the conclusion of some event that is two to three months away such as the end of school, milestone birthday, the beginning of school, the holidays, etc.

I guess what I'm looking for in writing this is for those of you who have been so critically helpful to me to look at this and provide me with your thoughts about my reflections. I have also found that in journaling my thoughts to you my anonymous audience I have keep clarity for myself so it serves that function as well.

I cannot even begin to comprehend what a change like this would look like for someone who does not have the societal, financial resources as well as for someone who is more physically vulnerable to serious injury at the hands of their spouse than someone as large as me. This continues to be the most difficult confusing stressful sad scary daunting overwhelming thing I have ever gone through.

It is my hope that the journey from awareness to deciding to leave and leaving will be the most internally difficult for me. I realize there will be many difficulties and challenges in the near term and long term but it is my great hope that none of them, that I confront all of them with more internal alignment and clarity and purpose in coming through the last three years.

Thank you for listening. You are all great comfort to me.

[AlleyOop23]

It has been surreal being here with my family thinking about how we are having all these final moments and they don’t know.i won’t be here for the end of this jar of peanut butter.

[EyesUp]

@AlleyOop,

Your concise summary suggests that you're seeing the big picture.  

I struggled with the same decision when it shifted from "if?" to "how and when?"

I also postponed action to get through holidays and kids' birthdays.

If I'm reading you correctly, at the moment your stbx is able to have a semi-functional conversation and even agree, to some extent, to consider her role.  i.e., you're not in full-tilt crisis mode.

You're also apprehensive of her behavior amping up as the big event approaches - I get it.

I think it's also fair to say that in these situations, planning is to your advantage.

My suggestion is:  If possible, enforce a boundary with your wife.  Tell her calmly, directly, that you have observed that conflict typically increases when there are events, holidays, etc.  Frame it however you think she will best receive it.  Emphasize that you're thinking of the kids.  Do not make it about her with a lot of "you" statements, e.g., do not say "you always freak out when there's a holiday" - instead say "what can we do to make sure we make this work for our kid?" and possibly "I need your help and feedback to make sure we don't repeat this pattern."

I know even that much can be fraught.

But - if you can get through and establish this boundary, then you can setup a set of possible scenarios:
- get through the bar mitzvah, then proceed (and gain more planning time in the process)
- if the boundary is violated, then you can proceed with your plans with greater confidence, knowing that you at least tried to prevent D proceedings from coinciding with the event
- or, worst case, your stbx simply cannot or will not recognize the boundary - and by attempting to introduce it, the discussion itself becomes the catalyst to proceed sooner rather than later

In any of these scenarios, you're giving your wife an invitation to engage, an opportunity to collaborate on a solution, respect as a coparent...   if she can't see that, or can't stick to it, then your next moves become clear - and you gain confidence.

This doesn't have to be about guilt where your wife is concerned.  It seems like the guilt you're thinking of is about overshadowing your kid's big day.  So - hopefully what I've proposed is a way to either avoid that outcome, or accept it as inevitable knowing you tried everything...

Finally, back to basics:

- are you recording?  please say yes.

- how does moving out benefit your case?  moving out essentially informs the court that you are 100% ok with your wife's behavior around the kids, as well as her parenting and care for the kids going forward.  in almost any state, it can be really difficult to get 50/50 parenting if the dad moves out.  where is your atty on this topic?

[AlleyOop23]

Yes I am recording. I have a weird little pen I bought. It's weird behavior but it's a comfort.

I like your idea about establishing the boundary and I will think about it. However on some level I feel as though I have already tried. I have been clear three times that her unwillingness to deal with the forced move out abuse is a complete block for me and that she has to admit she has a problem and get help. She won't even discuss it. Other than to make vague comments minimizing it or justifying it.

Re: move out and 50-50 I have spent a great deal of time turning this over with my attorneys. I have really looked deep inside myself. I try to figure out whether I'm proceeding out of fear or the avoidance of discomfort and whether I'm being prudent and responsible and having the best interest of the kids in the front. When moving for the domestic violence protective order was the plan one of the thing that gives me the most pause was the requested my wife be subjected to supervised visits with the kids only. My honest solemn and total belief was that it was overkill and that neither my wife nor my kids needed to be subjected to that.

I had to admit that if I were testifying I could not say that I think my kids are in danger. The abuse they suffer is only by witnessing verbal abuse against me. My wife shames my 13-year-old. It can be emotionally abusive. They otherwise have a rich and loving relationship. Through this process and after I will always advocate for both my kids. If they are ever in danger I will firmly forcefully and immediately intervene. But I cannot in good conscience take the position that they should not see their mother.

The restraining order that will go into effect immediately will set a 50-50 custody schedule with the focus being where I believe it needs to be, keeping her away from me but not away from the kids. The extra time is given me the ability to have a completely separate and ready place to go.

[AlleyOop23]

Separately, last night my wife asked me info would clean up her wife sneakers which is something I nerd out on. I did it, did a good job and was happy to do it. This morning I was up early to help them take their bags out to a car to the airport. I was happy to do it.

Does that make me a complete weirdo?

[AlleyOop23]

That should read clean up her white sneakers.

[livednlearned]

Alley, how does GAD affect things for you? Your mention of medication made me wonder if you've let your physician know what is coming down the chute? I think my dx during divorce was adjustment disorder which I believe is sort of like situational anxiety. I wasn't medicated at the time although I'm not sure if meds would've worked given how spiked my anxiety and vigilance was. I mention this because it can be easy to become myopic as you focus on the transition, without making sure you're ok too, not just in terms of physical safety but also your emotional and psychological health too.

Cleaning her sneakers makes sense. Things feels uncertain. You're changing. I would think doing normal things would help offset some of the anxiety (and in this case, guilt) that goes with change. Adjusting to a new normal will probably not be emotionally linear.  

Do you have a plan for helping you manage the guilt and obligation you mention? People you can call, appointments with a therapist, ways to feel centered (as much as possible)?

[EyesUp]

Separately, last night my wife asked me info would clean up her wife sneakers which is something I nerd out on. I did it, did a good job and was happy to do it. This morning I was up early to help them take their bags out to a car to the airport. I was happy to do it.

Does that make me a complete weirdo?

While cohabitating, I continued to get up first, make the coffee how my then-wife liked it, and then ask one of the kids to bring the coffee to mom.  I don't think I earned any goodwill or measurable dividends from this sort of activity, although I am certain that it helped counterbalance a lot of negativity in the moment and in the short term.

So I encourage you to go right on demonstrating that you can behave with courtesy, if not affection, to the mother of your children.  Especially in view of your children.

Remain on the high road. It doesn't matter if you believe in karma or anything else - it's the best policy.

[AlleyOop23]

You all are the best. Thank you

I’m on bupropion for GAD and adderall for adhd.

[ForeverDad]

In the last 18 months she has escalated. She has shoved me, blocked me from leaving the bathroom, thrown a book at my head, pinned me, punch me in the chest, hit me repeatedly with a pillow in a rage, about three weeks ago took a large photograph my dad took off the wall and started shoving me around with it yelling at me to take it and leave, through my dry cleaning into the yard in the rain piece by piece while yelling get the F out, has gotten her face right up in mine while yelling as recently as yesterday and three weeks ago spent the entire day demanding that I move out by text message, bought moving boxes and packing tape hid my glasses and meds and stood over me demanding I move out, telling me I would have to physically assault her to stay and that if the police were called I could be sure that it would be me taken to jail.

Time now to quietly begin moving some of your more precious mementos to safety.  The photo of your father triggers her?  So find a place for it elsewhere without making a fuss (especially not before the notices are served).

Also, do you have documentation (texts and recordings) just she's the aggressive one?  She would of course claim to be the poor helpless fearful victim, but are victims really so aggressive?

Our entire extended family will show up here while things are still raw is what I think will happen. But try as I might I cannot muster the guilt to wait until after the event. First of all I know the abuse will ramp up in advance of the event as it does before any holiday. Second I have now for year Moving this out until after the the conclusion of some event that is two to three months away such as the end of school, milestone birthday, the beginning of school, the holidays, etc.

Frankly, few of us ever managed to find the 'perfect' time to separate.  Most of us were caught off guard and unprepared.  So do as much planning and prepping as reasonably possible but don't worry about waiting for the 'perfect' time, it'll never happen.[/quote]

[Skip]

As I survey my plans I try to realize what the situation would look like to me as an observer. In the last 18 months she has escalated. She has shoved me, blocked me from leaving the bathroom, thrown a book at my head, pinned me, punch me in the chest, hit me repeatedly with a pillow in a rage, about three weeks ago took a large photograph my dad took off the wall and started shoving me around with it yelling at me to take it and leave, through my dry cleaning into the yard in the rain piece by piece while yelling get the F out, has gotten her face right up in mine while yelling as recently as yesterday and three weeks ago spent the entire day demanding that I move out by text message, bought moving boxes and packing tape hid my glasses and meds and stood over me demanding I move out, telling me I would have to physically assault her to stay and that if the police were called I could be sure that it would be me taken to jail.

So I look at all that in her refusal to acknowledge a problem or even discuss any of it all and wonder why am having any concern about future misgivings. All of that is aside from the constant blame of criticism and frequent yelling.

I know you struggle with obligation and guilt and try to harness anger to get over the inertia and take action. You keep coming back around to "domestic violence" and restraining orders, but as you have said, she has been a good mother. And while all the bad behavior listed above is bad behavior, I sense you struggle to say you are a battered husband.

Coming to grips with this may help. As we discussed earlier, anger is fleeting. It has you riding up and dopwn on a wave obligation and guilt.

Maybe accepting "irreconcilable differences" exist is enough.

At 35,000 ft., you married a women with BPD traits. You have GAD and ADHD traits. Both of these disorders are prone to relationship conflict. Both have characterized by over reacting to to situations.  These are lifelong afflictions. an d both conditions become worse when the partners enter their 60's. In short, this is a very conflicted relationship and it will always be a conflicted relationship. After decades, you two do not have a handle on it.

This alone is enough reason for the relationship to be dissolved. The children are the complicating factor.

The first week of March is about two months before my 13-year-olds bat mitzvah. I know I'm going to get a lot of disbelief over my timing. Our entire extended family will show up here while things are still raw is what I think will happen.

Two months is time enough.

Separately, last night my wife asked me info would clean up her white sneakers which is something I nerd out on. I did it, did a good job and was happy to do it. This morning I was up early to help them take their bags out to a car to the airport. I was happy to do it.

Does that make me a complete weirdo?

Are you concerned about mixed messaging prior to the service of divorce papers and a restraining order in 16 days? I think that is real. I would be careful. I think you can be pleasant and friendly, but the new order is independence.

Your wife has been clear that she doesn't want a divorce. Even if she is frustrated and can't control her emotions, and pushes boundaries (telling you to leave) - she is going to be overwhelmed to learn that her life (as she knows it) is coming to an end. She is going to begin grieving (e.g. denial and bargaining) as she is preparing for a bat mitzvah. That's a lot to deal with. Its all going to rain down on your daughters.

Do you want to offer her a lifeline that might help her deal with the shock and awe? Like an agreement (after the lawsuit is served and TO is in place) to put it further actions on hold for 6 weeks to get past the bat mitzvah and meet with a therapist to talk things through?

She might not take you up, or she might have other ideas, but offering support in this way sends a message of compassion. Afterall, you will be co-parenting for years to come.

This will take a lot of resolve on your part.

[PeteWitsend]

Separately, last night my wife asked me info would clean up her wife sneakers which is something I nerd out on. I did it, did a good job and was happy to do it. This morning I was up early to help them take their bags out to a car to the airport. I was happy to do it.

Does that make me a complete weirdo?

No, it makes you a person who can separate their own feelings from a sense of duty or common courtesy to others.

But it will probably confuse a pwBPD who cannot do such things, and for whom everything is personal and emotional. 

I agree with EyesUp, that taking the high road is the best policy, but caution you not to blindly extend that during divorce proceedings.  You don't have to go scorched earth, but don't give away rights that she requests or property, at least not without getting something in return.

I wish I had fought for closer to 50/50, although at the time, work commitments I had made that difficult, however if it was a true 50/50, I could have saved what I was spending on child support and paid for after school care. 

Remember: you have an obligation to your kids and an ex- who will use them as a means to an end.  If you give up - for example - rights to determine their school, what will you do in a year when your ex threatens to put them in an inferior school unless you pay for private school?  Or moves to a new school district that makes seeing your kids a burden?

Don't give in thinking avoiding conflict in the short term will lead to more peace in the long term.  Your ex is going to continue to create conflict with you as long as she can.  Do not give up rights that make it harder to fight these conflicts.

[AlleyOop23]

Thanks all. It’s true i struggle to see myself as battered. It seems like it should look different that I should be physically injured if I’m throwing that around. In my head I know it’s being battered. But I don’t feel like it’s “bad enough.”

As for the lifeline we’ve been here before. I left in 2007. She begged me to come back and agreed to do the things like counseling she previously refused. I’m afraid if I go to counseling I’ll get pulled back in. And I’ll have to break up with her over and over and it’s awful.

In the meantime I’ve got these two surreal moments.

First, my wife leaves for her girls trip and while she’s gone I plan to tell the kids and let her know what I’ve done and what I plan. . I’ll be saying good bye to her knowing that the door is closing on 28 years. 28 years and it comes to this - moving out behind her back. What do you do with all that life together? She gets on the plane and that’s it. It’s been awful these last few years. I suspect that the negative elements of her personality have weighed on me almost since the beginning.  But it was fun too.

I’ll drop the bomb on her that I’m filing and the restraining order and the kids know and I’ve got a new place and agony and wailing and rage will all follow. No closure. No sweet walks down memory lane and saying we’ll miss each other.

And likely her reaction to all this will be so toxic I’ll wonder about these thoughts. Like all victims I know my abuser loves me. And that she’s hurt and vulnerable.   

Second there’s telling my kids and having them pack. All the while concerned about their mother’s reaction. They will be profoundly uncomfortable packing up their stuff to take it to the other house without their mother sign off. Mostly they just need clothes. I’m gonna try to have everything else purchased, but I’m struggling with how to generate joy and excitement on any level, when I suspect they will struggle to give themselves permission, and the whole thing just seems so surreal and different and bizarre to them.



I’ve got another thread on telling the kids I’m going to cross post there I think.

[AlleyOop23]

I feel like I’m about to tell
Someone I moved out and got lawyers in secret because of the threat of abuse and false police allegations but somehow deep
Down it’s like I don’t buy it. Like it’s an excuse to avoid even though I know it’s true.

[Skip]

...but somehow deep down it’s like I don’t buy it, like it’s an excuse to avoid even though I know it’s true...

Yes.  It's a bit of a drama triangle. You and your wife can't resolve differences, so you reach out to make a case to a third party (your legal team) and they step in to rescue.

Triangulation is a coping mechanism. There is good triangulation and bad triangulation. It can help us get through difficult times. It can also distort our thinking and cause problems.

Look, you are fed up with your marriage because your wife can be very invalidating and at times, a jerk. This has been going on for a while. You are at a time in your life where you want more from. a relationship. Leaving would be uncomplicated (albeit expensive) if not for the children.

At 11 and 13, the kids are at an age where they are still wide-eyed babies.

This is what you are struggling with. In three years they will be 16 and 14. You don't want to live another 3 years with a women who is self centered, consuming, an invalidating. You are a youthful, intelligent professional that deserves more.

And it's really tough.

Does this narrative ring true on any level?

[CravingPeace]

Alleyoop23

"Like all victims I know my abuser loves me. And that she’s hurt and vulnerable.  "

This really hit me. My wife knows our relationship is bad and is impacting the kids. But she thinks if we just communicate better it will be ok. Her therapist has told her she has emotional disregulation issues/disorder, is a people pleaser and that the way she stone walls/silent treatments me is abusive .

I say all this as you need to stay focused on who the real victim is in this. Likely you and the kids and if you dont get them out the damage will be too much.

I just hope I have the courage to explain I can no longer work with her and want to divorce in the next few days. I don't expect it to go well, but she has never been violent which in some ways makes it harder as there has never been that red line crossed. And makes me question is the emotional and verbal stuff bad enough.

But yet I still don't think she realises just how much she has emotionally hurt me all these years. I am a shell of my former outgoing strong character.

I have 3 young children and all I can think about is their reaction when they are told about Divorce I imagine my oldest screaming at me that he hates me, my middle sobbing and thr baby. Well the baby just looking clueless!

Its so hard I think she does love me through all the hate and anger. When I look at her now I see a damaged and upset little girl and all I can think is how much I am planning to do exactly what she fears most and abandon her. It is truely heart breaking.

But can I take the constant digs, passive comments, belittling, controlling, implications, accusations, occasional screaming fits and name calling, lack of intimacy and lack of vulnerability any more.  Can I let my kids take on board the hostile environment and grow up to think its ok for mum to be making guilt inducing statements and playing the victim, constant arguments with dad (which I have reduced from this boards tips), and occasionally screaming at them to get the f out of the room. Or telling us "you are all the same" in a derogitory fashion.... It cuts so deep. Or teaching my oldest it is ok to stick your fingers up at me when I dont have my glasses on as I cant see.

This stuff hurts so much. I am almoat paralysed and stuck in limbo land. Leave/dont leave.

Anyeay I understand what you are going through and wish you peace and safety one day soon.

[AlleyOop23]

Thanks Skip. Yes it really does. And it’s not a conundrum over staying- I can’t stay. I can’t stay for me or for the kids. I just gotta figure out how to do this in a way that feels personally ethical; that’s the best I can do so that no matter how it goes I can live with it. And safe. It’s gotta be done safely and with an attempt to cause the kids the least amount of damage.

[ForeverDad]

It is your future perspective which experiences a paradigm shift.  You shift... from managing, appeasing and twisting yourself into a pretzel... to accepting what will happen, changing gears so to speak, finding the less damaging ways to move forward.

[PeteWitsend]

Thanks Skip. Yes it really does. And it’s not a conundrum over staying- I can’t stay. I can’t stay for me or for the kids. I just gotta figure out how to do this in a way that feels personally ethical; that’s the best I can do so that no matter how it goes I can live with it. And safe. It’s gotta be done safely and with an attempt to cause the kids the least amount of damage.

Don't worry about ethics; you don't have to stab her in the back, but just do what you have to do.  You owe her as much consideration as she's shown you over the years.

And regarding your post about second guessing your own motivations here, I went through that as well.  I wondered if things were really as bad as I made them out to be, enough to leave my wife and kid over.  Did I just want to be single again?  Did all couples go through tough times? 

It helped for me to have journaled a lot of this so I could look back and remember some of the awful things I went through, how I felt in the moment, and what objective problems there were in the relationship.  Her false accusations and ongoing attempts to isolate me from family and friends, and keep our D from seeing my mom (her grandma) who she loved very much, was enough to justify leaving in my mind.  The constant fighting and all the other BPD stuff was just more evidence against staying.