They can't handle anyone being different than them.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I suppose this is one of those "red flags" I missed before I finally found out that my husband probably has BPD/NPD. Have any of the rest of you noticed that they just can't handle it when someone likes or is interested in anything that they don't like? My husband has always been like this, and I used to tell myself "oh well different people like different things" but I think he crosses a line that's not normal.

For example, one of our perennial fights is that I like to cook, and he doesn't. But not only that, he thinks it's bad that I like to cook. I've been cooking since I was a kid, and I like to put home cooked meals on the table for dinner as often as possible. I've liked to watch cooking shows since I was a kid. I have a collection of cookbooks. I'm a foodie, OK?

He's gone on so many long rants about cooking is such a waste of time when you can just get fast food or takeout. I tried to tell him that home cooked food is cheaper than takeout. He says he doesn't think that's true, and even if it is, time is worth money too and it's still a huge waste of time and effort cooking your own food when you can just get takeout. He said he doesn't like my "fancy" cooking anyway with all those vegetables (he hates vegetables),and he'd be happier just eating fast food hamburgers every day. I tried to tell him that home cooked food is healthier. He said he doesn't think having this "obsession" over food is very healthy at all, and probably likely to make you overweight. (I then pointed out that, while at the time, I was about 20 pounds overweight, he's 80 pounds overweight. He got angry that I was "fat-shaming" him and that his weight is due to this medication he's on and has nothing to do with his diet.)

He said that cooking is a woman's job. I told him that actually lots of men cook too, in fact my dad really liked to cook. I even told him about how when my dad was dying of esophageal cancer, I used to go visit him and he'd be watching cooking shows. I asked him how he can stand to watch that when he can't eat solid food and is living off protein shakes, and he said he's fantasizing about all the foods he'll get to enjoy when he gets better (he didn't get better). He even cooked me a few meals that he himself didn't eat, and I ate it with him drinking his protein shake.

Eventually I started to realize how silly it was for me to be spending HOURS justifying, explaining, and defending the fact that *I like to cook*. Liking cooking is not a bad thing! There's nothing for me to defend here! In exasperation I even said, "There are lots of men out there who would love to have a wife who's a good cook," and he said, "They say the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, but that's not true, the way to a man's heart is through his d*ck," and then started another rant about how I don't have sex with him enough.

Yet he wants me to be interested in everything he's interested in. He likes doing "handyman" do-it-yourselfer type projects around the house. (He doesn't want me to watch cooking shows on PBS anymore; he wants me to watch "This Old House"). I think that's perfectly fine for him to like that. In fact, I think that's very useful. I've never been into it myself. If I didn't have him around, I'd probably have to hire people to do stuff like that. I'm open to the idea of maybe one day learning how to do stuff like that, but right now I just don't have the time and energy to learn new skills.

But it makes him so angry that I am not more into that stuff. I've even tried to make comparisons to me cooking. I told him that just like it's cheaper to DIY house projects instead of hiring someone, it's cheaper to cook your own food instead of getting takeout, even though it takes more time. And I told him that he hates my cooking, but I actually like it that he knows how to repair things around the house and don't think there's anything wrong with that. But no, he insists its totally different.

He says, "Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you can't learn to build things. Lots of women know how to build things." See the hypocrisy here?

It's the same thing when it comes to stuff like movies, books, tv shows, music, etc. I have to like all the same stuff he likes. There are a lot of those things that we both like, but I need to cultivate an interest in the ones that he likes but I don't like. However, I better not listen music or watch a TV show he doesn't like when he's around, or he gets really irritated, sometimes totally losing his temper and telling me to turn that sh*t off.

I hate horror movies, but I went with him to see Prometheus because he really wanted to see it, and he doesn't have any friends, so he had no one to go see it with but me, and he didn't want to go see it alone. I saw it with him. I hated it.

I wanted to see Barbie. He didn't want to see it because it's a "chick movie." So I went to see it with his mother, sister, and sister's husband. We all loved it (even the brother in law, who is a man by the way).

I tolerated this for so long, but I find myself feeling free to enjoy the things I like less and less in order to not anger him. It's spring, and for the first time in maybe 30 years I am thinking of not planting a vegetable garden this year because of his many rants about what a waste of time that is (and because I might be divorcing him and moving out anyway). After all, he says "I don't even like vegetables."

Now I'm seeing it start to bleed into his relationship with our 4 year old daughter. We got into this routine of leaving her at the house where his mother, sister, and sister's husband live on Sunday afternoons after church, so they can babysit her while we have some "alone time" together (that is, have sex the rest of the afternoon because according to him the only thing wrong with our relationship is that he doesn't get enough sex). The last couple of times we went to pick her up, she was watching football with them. Her aunt had taught her to cheer for their team, so there she was jumping up and down like a cheerleader, and when their team scored, my daughter seemed to think that it was because she had been cheering for them so well.

I am not into football myself, but I thought it was pretty adorable, and thought it was nice for her to have something to bond with her aunt and uncle about. And besides, we live in football country. Her liking football would probably make her fit in better with most people. (I like to say the Superbowl makes me understand how Jewish people feel on Christmas.)

My husband HATES football, and after that last time, he got into a rant about how he really doesn't like it that they're teaching her to like football, and he really doesn't want our girl to become a cheerleader and date football jocks in high school (and then he went on some kind of rant about all the girls in high school liked the jocks and not him, etc.). On top of that, at some point during that last visit, they took our daughter out for a walk, and she fell and skinned her knees, so he got really angry that they "allowed" her to get hurt (even though 4 year olds skin their knees all the time).

So towards the end of his rant, he concluded no more Aunt and Uncle babysitting her!

It reminds me about how my mom was the same way. She also really hated it if I like anything that she didn't like. Now, I know it can be tricky if your kid ends up having different political or religious views than you. But something like having different taste in music than you? If they can't even handle that, there's no hope for disagreeing with them on anything important.

It's looking like this is another area where I might have to overcompensate in co-parenting with my husband (even after he's my ex). I can tell already that he's going get really angry whenever our daughter likes anything he doesn't like, just like he does with me, so I'll have to be extra supportive of her interests (especially ones that I don't share, to show her it's OK).

I guess with BPD they are so triggered by anything they perceive as a betrayal or abandonment that even liking a sport or hobby that they don't like is seen as betrayal. It's ridiculous.

[Gerda]

I suppose this is one of those "red flags" I missed before I finally found out that my husband probably has BPD/NPD. Have any of the rest of you noticed that they just can't handle it when someone likes or is interested in anything that they don't like? My husband has always been like this, and I used to tell myself "oh well different people like different things" but I think he crosses a line that's not normal.

For example, one of our perennial fights is that I like to cook, and he doesn't. But not only that, he thinks it's bad that I like to cook. I've been cooking since I was a kid, and I like to put home cooked meals on the table for dinner as often as possible. I've liked to watch cooking shows since I was a kid. I have a collection of cookbooks. I'm a foodie, OK?

He's gone on so many long rants about cooking is such a waste of time when you can just get fast food or takeout. I tried to tell him that home cooked food is cheaper than takeout. He says he doesn't think that's true, and even if it is, time is worth money too and it's still a huge waste of time and effort cooking your own food when you can just get takeout. He said he doesn't like my "fancy" cooking anyway with all those vegetables (he hates vegetables),and he'd be happier just eating fast food hamburgers every day. I tried to tell him that home cooked food is healthier. He said he doesn't think having this "obsession" over food is very healthy at all, and probably likely to make you overweight. (I then pointed out that, while at the time, I was about 20 pounds overweight, he's 80 pounds overweight. He got angry that I was "fat-shaming" him and that his weight is due to this medication he's on and has nothing to do with his diet.)

He said that cooking is a woman's job. I told him that actually lots of men cook too, in fact my dad really liked to cook. I even told him about how when my dad was dying of esophageal cancer, I used to go visit him and he'd be watching cooking shows. I asked him how he can stand to watch that when he can't eat solid food and is living off protein shakes, and he said he's fantasizing about all the foods he'll get to enjoy when he gets better (he didn't get better). He even cooked me a few meals that he himself didn't eat, and I ate it with him drinking his protein shake.

Eventually I started to realize how silly it was for me to be spending HOURS justifying, explaining, and defending the fact that *I like to cook*. Liking cooking is not a bad thing! There's nothing for me to defend here! In exasperation I even said, "There are lots of men out there who would love to have a wife who's a good cook," and he said, "They say the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, but that's not true, the way to a man's heart is through his d*ck," and then started another rant about how I don't have sex with him enough.

Yet he wants me to be interested in everything he's interested in. He likes doing "handyman" do-it-yourselfer type projects around the house. (He doesn't want me to watch cooking shows on PBS anymore; he wants me to watch "This Old House"). I think that's perfectly fine for him to like that. In fact, I think that's very useful. I've never been into it myself. If I didn't have him around, I'd probably have to hire people to do stuff like that. I'm open to the idea of maybe one day learning how to do stuff like that, but right now I just don't have the time and energy to learn new skills.

But it makes him so angry that I am not more into that stuff. I've even tried to make comparisons to me cooking. I told him that just like it's cheaper to DIY house projects instead of hiring someone, it's cheaper to cook your own food instead of getting takeout, even though it takes more time. And I told him that he hates my cooking, but I actually like it that he knows how to repair things around the house and don't think there's anything wrong with that. But no, he insists its totally different.

He says, "Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you can't learn to build things. Lots of women know how to build things." See the hypocrisy here?

It's the same thing when it comes to stuff like movies, books, tv shows, music, etc. I have to like all the same stuff he likes. There are a lot of those things that we both like, but I need to cultivate an interest in the ones that he likes but I don't like. However, I better not listen music or watch a TV show he doesn't like when he's around, or he gets really irritated, sometimes totally losing his temper and telling me to turn that sh*t off.

I hate horror movies, but I went with him to see Prometheus because he really wanted to see it, and he doesn't have any friends, so he had no one to go see it with but me, and he didn't want to go see it alone. I saw it with him. I hated it.

I wanted to see Barbie. He didn't want to see it because it's a "chick movie." So I went to see it with his mother, sister, and sister's husband. We all loved it (even the brother in law, who is a man by the way).

I tolerated this for so long, but I find myself feeling free to enjoy the things I like less and less in order to not anger him. It's spring, and for the first time in maybe 30 years I am thinking of not planting a vegetable garden this year because of his many rants about what a waste of time that is (and because I might be divorcing him and moving out anyway). After all, he says "I don't even like vegetables."

Now I'm seeing it start to bleed into his relationship with our 4 year old daughter. We got into this routine of leaving her at the house where his mother, sister, and sister's husband live on Sunday afternoons after church, so they can babysit her while we have some "alone time" together (that is, have sex the rest of the afternoon because according to him the only thing wrong with our relationship is that he doesn't get enough sex). The last couple of times we went to pick her up, she was watching football with them. Her aunt had taught her to cheer for their team, so there she was jumping up and down like a cheerleader, and when their team scored, my daughter seemed to think that it was because she had been cheering for them so well.

I am not into football myself, but I thought it was pretty adorable, and thought it was nice for her to have something to bond with her aunt and uncle about. And besides, we live in football country. Her liking football would probably make her fit in better with most people. (I like to say the Superbowl makes me understand how Jewish people feel on Christmas.)

My husband HATES football, and after that last time, he got into a rant about how he really doesn't like it that they're teaching her to like football, and he really doesn't want our girl to become a cheerleader and date football jocks in high school (and then he went on some kind of rant about all the girls in high school liked the jocks and not him, etc.). On top of that, at some point during that last visit, they took our daughter out for a walk, and she fell and skinned her knees, so he got really angry that they "allowed" her to get hurt (even though 4 year olds skin their knees all the time).

So towards the end of his rant, he concluded no more Aunt and Uncle babysitting her!

It reminds me about how my mom was the same way. She also really hated it if I like anything that she didn't like. Now, I know it can be tricky if your kid ends up having different political or religious views than you. But something like having different taste in music than you? If they can't even handle that, there's no hope for disagreeing with them on anything important.

It's looking like this is another area where I might have to overcompensate in co-parenting with my husband (even after he's my ex). I can tell already that he's going get really angry whenever our daughter likes anything he doesn't like, just like he does with me, so I'll have to be extra supportive of her interests (especially ones that I don't share, to show her it's OK).

I guess with BPD they are so triggered by anything they perceive as a betrayal or abandonment that even liking a sport or hobby that they don't like is seen as betrayal. It's ridiculous.

[livednlearned]

At times you may be able to be a partner to your husband, and at times you will be his parent.

It sounds like he hasn't learned to regulate difficult emotions that come up when he feels like an outsider, whatever it is that has left him feeling "out."

Since he isn't a child and has access to adult size emotions and behaviors, things can feel less than safe when he's in that state of mind.

It strikes me more as an instinct than anything else. It's a desire to merge or fuse, and if there is friction or resistance, that instinct devolves into control and abuse.  

[Notwendy]

I read an interesting book about this topic "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. I think you would find it informative.

A premise is the intimate partner ( or others close to them) become their emotional soothing object ( their "Teddy" in the book). Teddy is not a separate individual but a projection of their needs onto Teddy. So when Teddy deviates from that role, it upsets them.

[Gerda]

I read an interesting book about this topic "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. I think you would find it informative.

A premise is the intimate partner ( or others close to them) become their emotional soothing object ( their "Teddy" in the book). Teddy is not a separate individual but a projection of their needs onto Teddy. So when Teddy deviates from that role, it upsets them.

I think I have heard of that book, but haven't read it yet.

It reminds me of something my therapist said, that I'm his "comfort object." That's a term I've only heard used previously for a small child's favorite stuffy, but it's a good comparison for the role he seems to expect me to play in his life.

This weekend he's in a bad mood because his mom asked him to clean out this closet at her house that still has a bunch of his stuff in it from when he was a child. He's really angry about it, because he wanted to do something else this weekend. When he was ranting to me about it, I basically told him I really don't think his mom's request is unreasonable at all. His 80 year old mom is not obligated to store her 56 year old son's stuff at her house forever. He got real mad and said "you're supposed to take my side on things!" Yeah, my job is to always take his side on everything whether I agree with him or not.

[EyesUp]

Hi Gerda,

Just wanted to say:  I think many of us share aspects of this experience, and it sounds like you're seeing it very clearly - beyond your pwBPD and into your FOO.

As a parent, when I started to see beyond the FOG in my own relationship and further ahead to what it might mean for our kids - especially the intergenerational aspect - I started to develop more conviction about what I needed to do for myself and for the kids.

If I understand correctly, your H basically demands sex (I recall your prior posts), but also rejects the babysitter arrangement that provides time for adulting...   I realize that these are two problems, but for the sake of discussion:  What would happen if you attempted to enforce a boundary?  i.e., tell your H "we can't have sex because you have cancelled the sitter" - what do you think would happen?  Would he walk it back and allow your D to go to her aunt/uncles?  Or would he fail (or at least refuse) to see the trap of his own making?

As for Jewish people on Christmas: Many go to Chinese restaurants - it's a well known tradition. The point is: No one needs to be left out...

[thankful person]

Gerda,

My dbpdw is the same with having no respect or understanding that I can like different things from her. Even our 4 year old understands this better than my wife does. My wife tells me that the things I like have no value and that I should like her things because they are better (tv, music etc). She doesn’t have any hobbies so doesn’t like me playing the piano because it’s not fair that she can’t do that and that it relaxes me. If I do any craft activity then it’s not fair because it’s better than anything she could ever do. We have always had multiple issues with food because my wife used to have an eating disorder. She was bullied and abused and had low self worth, which is understandable. But these days most of the problems are pure laziness on her part, she will refuse to discuss and plan meals and then orders takeout which we can’t afford (on credit cards). If we do plan meals then some of it goes to waste as she won’t eat what she’s bought. I have learnt to just do my own thing and care for myself. I think you should definitely continue doing what you want to do and growing vegetables and cooking, for your own health and happiness, and your daughter’s. I like to treat myself to the things I love doing, despite all the drama this is something valuable I’ve learnt from bpd fam (and fjelsted). In a way life has never been better (I guess I was always miserable ). Oh and I get the same thing about her wanting me to stand up for her and support her. My wife is obsessed with fireworks, especially the expensive ones and likes to set off commercial fireworks in our garden and in particular she likes falling out with the neighbours everywhere we’ve lived. So when the woman next door was complaining over the fence about the fireworks being loud and going on so long and waking her kids up and scaring her animals, I was supposed to stand up for my wife apparently but I said nothing. I think fireworks are a waste of money and they upset lots of people so at least I managed to keep my mouth shut and not agree with the neighbour!

[Gerda]

If I understand correctly, your H basically demands sex (I recall your prior posts), but also rejects the babysitter arrangement that provides time for adulting...   I realize that these are two problems, but for the sake of discussion:  What would happen if you attempted to enforce a boundary?  i.e., tell your H "we can't have sex because you have cancelled the sitter" - what do you think would happen?  Would he walk it back and allow your D to go to her aunt/uncles?  Or would he fail (or at least refuse) to see the trap of his own making?

Alas, it looks like we've gone back to our previous way of doing things, which is him waking me up at night to stay up late for "adult time" after our daughter is asleep. We had been doing Sunday afternoons because that way I wouldn't be as tired. I guess he saw that as doing me a favor.

He kept me up until about 10:30 Thursday night, and this morning he called me up while I was driving to work and said he needs it again tonight. He said that he really needs sex twice a week now. Once a week isn't enough. And Thursday night he got mad at me because I wasn't enjoying it enough, so I'm dreading tonight again.

Also, I think I mentioned before how he offered to put $500 in our daughter's college fund for every time we had "adult time" on Sunday afternoons to "sweeten the deal." Well, that's off now too because it was costing him too much money. Oh well, it was a nice boost to our daughter's college fun while it lasted I guess.

I feel like enforcing sexual boundaries is pretty dangerous for me. He gets so enraged when I try to say no.

The thing is, I have to get up at 5 am to get myself ready for work and then our daughter ready for school and take her to school (he gets up an hour later than me and just gets himself ready and doesn't help with our daughter at all). I haven't been able to sleep in to catch up on missed sleep since she's been born because I always have to wake up when she wakes up to take care of her (she doesn't take naps anymore). My husband gets to sleep in or take naps on the weekends any time he wants.

But this is all stuff that I've already tried to talk to him about and it just makes him angry.