When is it enough

[usagi]

Hello forum,

This has been such a blessing so thank you all again.  I usually post on the "bettering the relationship" thread but have hit a limit.

My partner told me I had to leave this past weekend.  I asked her many times if that's what she wanted and the answer was yes so I took her at her word, even though in the past this usually meant that she was just hurt and needed to vent her frustration.

I've rented an apartment for a three month block of time close to our house.  Now I'm trying to figure out if I really want to try to salvage things or am I really done.

I'm currently reading "Stop Caretaking the BPD" and hoping to gain some insight from there.  I've heard stories on this forum about folks who have successfully applied some of the tools in these resources.  You apparently have to go through hell first but eventually they start to work.

I've been trying some of these over the pasts several months with some success.  This weekend, however, I was just frazzled.  My work has been very stressful lately and so my bandwidth for emotional drama has been very small.  This weekend I made a comment about how I was scared about my work situation that my partner first though was about our relationship.  When I admitted it was about work she lost it.  I had, in her words, wounded her horribly.  She's said that she's tired of me putting my work and hobbies first and that she gets the scraps.  Sunday night she told me to get out as soon as possible and then demanded some comforting so she could get to sleep.  I tried to do that eventually but as soon as I sat down with her to be with her she started putting me down again.  I got angry and left.  Not surprisingly this was not OK for her.

The demands of having a partner with a severe mental health disorder and really weighing on me.  I think if it was just her and I and I didn't have the work pressure at the moment I could work through it.  But her behavior has transferred to her 12 year old son, who completely treats me with utter disrespect.  All of this together is making me feel overwhelmed and unable to try to "fix" things.

We were talking this morning about what happened over the weekend.  She wanted me to admit that my words caused her immense emotional pain.  I said that I was sorry for what I said and that she felt sad about it.  That wasn't good enough.  I had to take responsibility for her feelings.  I didn't.  I knew I shouldn't have but tried to explain that adults own their own feelings.  She then said that I guess this is why we need to end things.

I'm expecting that she will text me or call later at some point.  It's very clear to me that she doesn't want me to leave.  She just wants the pain to stop.

I can certainly stop talking about my work around her and my hobbies.  That might help.  But she also wants me to repair what happened back in December (I tried to break-up and cancelled a pending house contract because I was feeling like the relationship was beyond broken).  She hasn't accepted my view of what happened and demands that I do something "big" to solve it.

I just don't know what to do anymore.  And I really do not deserve to be treated this way.

[Pook075]

Only you can decide when enough is actually enough. 

Many of us have been there and at times, it's no fun at all.  It sounds like there's still some communication breakdowns though that can be improved on.  You can tell her how you feel about her, about her son, and about the relationship.  You can also tell her that the pressure at work is tough, and it would mean a world of difference to have support at home. 

You're choosing to work hard in a career to provide for the family- that should be validated.  Her feelings need to be validated too though, that you love her and your current frustrations are not with her.  That you'd like to work through this together. 

The big thing in BPD relationships is misunderstandings and what's not said.  If you're really on the verge of leaving, then now is the time to say what you've been hiding, what you've been too afraid to say to her.  Your feelings matter.

At the same time though, once you say what you have to say, then it's time to listen, to ask questions, to dig deeper on what she actually needs.  You need to validate whatever you can since you're hoping that she would also validate your words.  It's a two-way street that hasn't worked correctly for awhile.

Nobody here can tell you what to do.  Leaving for the apartment though does not automatically mean that the relationship is over.  Creating some space could help both of you heal, even if it's only temporary.  It could also make communication easier in time.  But you have to decide that, I can't point you in either direction since they're both very difficult paths.  The decision is yours alone.

[usagi]

Thank you Pook75,

That's sort of how I feel.  I need to lay all my cards on the table.

I do need some support about my work situation.  I did get some from her a couple of weeks ago.  I was struggling one Friday night and broke down crying about my situation.  She helped me to bed and gave me some physical comfort.  But then the next morning got angry with me for keeping her up all night with snoring and restlessness.  That completely obliterated the comfort I received.  The work situation won't be forever but for now I'm under elevated stress.  The only way to really get out from under it is to get the work done.

I haven't been talking much about my relationship with her son.  When I've brought it up in the past she's accused me of acting like a victim.  Either that or she feels like she' arbitrating between two children.

What I can offer is to not talk about my work or hobby when there's family time or quality time with her.  I can offer to try to find some more quality time to spend with her, although honestly I already devote lots of time to her.

She wants me to do something "big" to fix our relationship.  I've asked her to tell me what that looks like and she said she's tired of explaining how to do things for men and that I'd have to figure it out.

As the "Caretaker" book says, I've done so much for her already but would need to do more.

[kells76]

If she has BPD, then she has wildly varying emotions that aren't always tied to what's happening outside of herself.

An alternative to "doing something big to prove that you're committed" could be:

what if you did what you thought was best, and tolerated the discomfort of knowing that you don't have control over if she feels in the moment like you're committed?

Has "doing what she wanted" or "saying what she wanted" ever really fixed anything in the relationship, in the past?

Letting her set the terms of "if you're committed enough" is giving her emotional leadership in the relationship. Again, if you're here because you suspect she has BPD, then she is struggling with mental illness, perhaps as much as people who believe that the CIA sends them messages through their teeth. It's just that her mental illness challenges aren't in the area of saying things that are obviously irrational, her challenges are emotional and relational and can sound normal because of using normal language.

Her feelings may change from moment to moment. What if you got some neutral third party support for being steadily committed to what was actually helpful, not what she asserted she wanted in a moment?

Consider stopping making offers to her to sacrifice more. Consider building up your ability to tolerate the distress of her unhappiness, without your spotlight jumping to "what did she say she wanted, to feel better". It can actually be a loving thing to do for another adult, to let her self soothe and manage her own feelings.

...

It sounds like she isn't a reliable source of support for your work situation. Who can you turn to for reliable support right now?

[kells76]

The conflict is already hard enough, and I get that work and stepparenting on top of that makes it even harder 

I think where I'm coming from is -- if you're in a "nothing left to lose" situation, what's the worst that could happen if you started prioritizing what you needed and living healthily?

[Pook075]

I can offer to try to find some more quality time to spend with her, although honestly I already devote lots of time to her.

Quick question- could you share specifically what time you devote towards her?  And what the two of you do together during those times?

[usagi]

She has felt very insecure ever since December.  I get that.  We were going to buy a house together from her view I just up and left and said "peace out.."  Now she's just waiting for that to happen again.  My only thought about how to make her feel better is to not disappear.  I didn't really do that before but since then I've committed to staying in the conversation when she's expressing her emotions and doing my best to validate, be supportive, and empathetic.

What I can't control is her son's behavior.  And when he acts out she imposes that on me.

You are certainly right, just doing what she "wanted" doesn't really work.

I don't know, I guess I feel like I'm not doing a good enough job using these tools.

I know that she didn't really mean for me to leave.  She says that to get a "baby don't leave me" sort of response and an apology for whatever it is she's upset about.  But this time I took her at her word.  I think that was something that I needed.  At least until I work out my work situation.

I definitely have some people to lean on about work and life in general.  I have some solid friendships and am very thankful for it.




She's been pretty adamant lately that I am putting my work and hobby first.  "Why are you putting those things above me?  Can't you see that it hurts me?!"  I realize that telling her "but I'm not putting those things first" isn't validating.  I might try something like "that really sucks that you feel like you aren't important to me."

[usagi]

Quick question- could you share specifically what time you devote towards her?  And what the two of you do together during those times?

I am home weekends and most evenings.  During the week I make her dinner, go on walks with the dogs, play music for her, and just "be" with her.  On weekends we often go out for brunch, shop around an art store she likes, sometimes are intimate.  I will also try to find time for us to get away from the city to the natural places near by for an overnight.

I go to my hobby on Wednesday nights and occasionally other times.  But I'll talk to her well in advance of those times and make sure it's on the calendar.

Lately I've been getting in some extra hours at work.  I'll try to do this by getting up early (I work from home) but a few times I've put in a couple of hours in on the weekend.  Last time I remember doing that was when she was taking a nap.

[usagi]

When her son is here we shift focus onto him.  But lately that turns to arguments between her and him, mostly about chores.  I've tried to talk with her about other ways she could work that issue with him but she wants to do it her way.

Weekends with him around have generally been a nightmare.  The two of them get into fights and then point the finger at me.

[kells76]

I don't know, I guess I feel like I'm not doing a good enough job using these tools.

They aren't intuitive -- just like with your hobby, you didn't get to the level you're at overnight. It might feel uncomfortable and "not good" at the start, which just means... you're at the start  

I know that she didn't really mean for me to leave.  She says that to get a "baby don't leave me" sort of response and an apology for whatever it is she's upset about.  But this time I took her at her word.  I think that was something that I needed.  At least until I work out my work situation.

Another possible way to look at that is that in the past, you two had a conflict dance. She'd say "get out of here, we're done" (or whatever), and your "part to play" was then to say "baby don't leave me". Dysfunctional, but she got something out of it, and maybe, somehow, you did too?

Now, maybe it's less about "this time I'm treating her like she means it" and more about "this time, I am making a different choice based on thinking through what's healthier". Spotlight on you and your choices.

She's been pretty adamant lately that I am putting my work and hobby first.  "Why are you putting those things above me?  Can't you see that it hurts me?!"  I realize that telling her "but I'm not putting those things first" isn't validating.  I might try something like "that really sucks that you feel like you aren't important to me."

YES!  

[Pook075]

I am home weekends and most evenings.  During the week I make her dinner, go on walks with the dogs, play music for her, and just "be" with her.  On weekends we often go out for brunch, shop around an art store she likes, sometimes are intimate.  I will also try to find time for us to get away from the city to the natural places near by for an overnight.

I go to my hobby on Wednesday nights and occasionally other times.  But I'll talk to her well in advance of those times and make sure it's on the calendar.

Lately I've been getting in some extra hours at work.  I'll try to do this by getting up early (I work from home) but a few times I've put in a couple of hours in on the weekend.  Last time I remember doing that was when she was taking a nap.

Okay, so you are getting a good bit of actual quality time each week.  I was thinking that maybe you were spending time with her but it wasn't actually connecting, talking, adventuring, etc...sounds like you had that covered.

[usagi]

I feel like I do, yes.  Which makes it hard for me to respond to requests for more quality time.

[DigitalSanity]

When she complains about not spending time with her, you gotta remind her of all the stuff you did together. Be very specific. Let her know when you give up on your hobbies to be with her and so on.

My work has been very stressful lately and so my bandwidth for emotional drama has been very small.  This weekend I made a comment about how I was scared about my work situation that my partner first though was about our relationship.  When I admitted it was about work she lost it.  I had, in her words, wounded her horribly.  She's said that she's tired of me putting my work and hobbies first and that she gets the scraps.

Damn, you just made me realize this was a trigger for my ex, she never responded when I told her I was afraid to lose my job. Unfortunately, I think we have to realize we can't rely on their emotional support.

[usagi]

Thanks for the suggestion, DigitalSanity,

Now that I'm living on my own I'm working on some new strategies I can employ.  I think this falls under the truth part of SET I suppose.

I met up with my partner yesterday and we had a long talk.  We came up with a plan for her living on her own with her son for the next three months.  During that time she's asked me to think about what I really want, and to figure out how I can be less defensive.  She's also asked me to think about what I'd need her to change.

Since I tried leaving her this past December she has been looking for more reassurance and attention to make her feel that I put her ahead of my other responsibilities and needs.

It's very clear to me that she wants to be with me but as she puts it "she keeps running into emotional land mines with me."

Big issues are:

• Tension due to arguments and bad behavior from step son
• Large fear of future abandonment from attempted break-up in December
• My response to her emotional dysregulation - mostly when she starts yelling and name calling
• Her perception that I place more value on my work and hobby than my family

I don't think any of these are necessarily insurmountable but not an easy fix.  And not necessarily something that I can fix.

I think like Kells pointed out, I need to figure out if I can find a way to just live my life without getting wrapped up in all the emotional turmoil generated by my partner's mental health disorder.

[kells76]

usagi, have you seen the workshop on Dealing with Enmeshment and Codependence yet? For me, it's less about "what label to put on someone" (i.e. "you're enmeshed" or "I'm codependent") and more about what approaches, skills, and mindsets can I glean from the workshop, that might apply.

Like you mentioned:

I need to figure out if I can find a way to just live my life without getting wrapped up in all the emotional turmoil generated by my partner's mental health disorder.

so maybe some parts of that workshop could help you find a balanced place between total enmeshment and total detachment.

If anything in there stands out to you, let us know -- would be interested to learn what's helpful for you.

[ForeverDad]

But she also wants me to repair what happened back in December (I tried to break-up and cancelled a pending house contract because I was feeling like the relationship was beyond broken).  She hasn't accepted my view of what happened and demands that I do something "big" to solve it.

I just don't know what to do anymore.  And I really do not deserve to be treated this way.

I would express caution about buying house together if you're even the least bit unsure whether the relationship can - or will - last.

Why?  Buying a home together adds greatly to the sense of an Obligated relationship.  You've read about FOG mentioned here, right?  F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation, Guilt.  Is that not increasing the "obligated" status of your relationship?  A similar example might be you having children together.  That too would increase your obligated status.

Would the house be purchased by her and in her name and mortgaged in her name only?

Or... Would the house be purchased by you and in your name and mortgaged in your name only?

Being co-owners or co-mortgagers would tie you two together in a profound way.  If you later split, how would you undo that link?  Amicably?  When BPD is a factor, it might take legal action and neither of you would feel justice was done.

So unless you're confident on the future of the relationship, buying a house together could be an eventual nightmare to undo.

[usagi]

usagi, have you seen the workshop on Dealing with Enmeshment and Codependence yet? For me, it's less about "what label to put on someone" (i.e. "you're enmeshed" or "I'm codependent") and more about what approaches, skills, and mindsets can I glean from the workshop, that might apply.

Thanks Kells.  I'll check it out and let you know.  I appreciate the suggestion.

[usagi]

Being co-owners or co-mortgagers would tie you two together in a profound way.  If you later split, how would you undo that link?  Amicably?  When BPD is a factor, it might take legal action and neither of you would feel justice was done.

Thanks ForeverDad,

I think this is exactly why I pulled out of the home purchase last December.  Luckily we got out of the contract without losing too much earnest money.  We knew the seller so worked something out.

I think I had been feeling this pressure, this fear about the relationship going into the home purchase.  The night she railed against my hobby and demanded I quit otherwise she would end the relationship and I'd be stuck losing the earnest money, I knew it wasn't a good idea to go forward.

I would certainly consider living in a house that she owned or vice versa.  Right now we are talking about moving forward with our relationship trying to live separately so she can focus on raising her son without me around to add to his emotional instability.  We are also going to read a relationship self help book together and talk through our problems more explicitly.