how things are going

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

(Last update was here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357389.0)

Thought I'd share some of where we're at -- even though there's no crisis right now ( and  )

SD17 turned 18 a few weeks ago; I'm still working on stepping back from the "mom reminder" stuff and not telling her to do things (eat vegetables, brush teeth, do homework). She gets to take charge of that now. I still do "taking care of" stuff though -- making tea, fixing clothes, driving her places.

She still has a lot of back pain that is pretty inhibitive (walking ~1 mile is painful). She wants imaging/MRI, and we've talked before about how typically you have to go through lower-level stuff (PT, chiro, etc) and then get a referral if those don't work. H suggested that she follow up on that while she is insured under Mom/Stepdad, and she wants to, but said that Mom is busy/overwhelmed with trying to set up doctor appointments for SD15. H told her that she is important, too, and this is a normal thing for parents to do. We let her know that while we can't call insurance (as it is not our insurance), we would like to support her and can drive her to appointments, for example.

She has been talking off and on about getting a new job, but has a 3 month trip coming up in May, so has "believed" that she can't apply for stuff with that coming up so soon. I guess I did overstep a bit and saw an opening at a local grocery store, and asked them if they hire people with trips coming up, and they said sure. So I did tell SD18 about that -- sometimes she gets in this headspace of being very sure of a faulty belief -- but said it was information for her to have (that yes, places will hire you with big trips coming up, as long as you tell them) versus pressure to do anything specific.

A few weeks back, when we were celebrating her birthday with my family, my BIL joked that "you'll know you're an adult when you have your first existential crisis" and SD18 was like "I already had one, with the first divorce". H and I kind of looked at each other, like "first...? what's the second one?" He asked her about if she was concerned about H and I and she said no. I haven't followed up with her on it but I don't think things are just naturally getting better at Mom's house between Mom and Stepdad.

We visited some other family this past weekend, and both kids were really sweet with my 3YO niece. SD15 swears she doesn't like kids/babies but will pat her on the head and swing her around. SD18 really likes N3 and has her "help" draw in her sketchbook. N3 loves them both and they have fun telling her stories like "want to know why my hair is purple? It's because the hair fairy visited me at night", so now N3 believes that when you turn 15, the hair fairy turns your hair different colors.

Driving home from that, it was quiet in the car for a bit, then H was singing a little. SD18 joined in and they both sang some U2 acapella.

Then yesterday H got to help SD18 with her first taxes (she asked him specifically for help).

H and SD15 still love watching zombie shows together. They've watched all the original "Walking Dead" and are now watching all the spinoffs. SD18 and I excuse ourselves and go do something relaxing, H and SD15 love the gore. They also love making "zombie survival" bags together, selling stuff on eBay, and plotting to go to Renaissance fairs.

SD15 talked a lot this weekend to me about stuff going on in her life. She started HS last fall at an arts charter school and the first term was very positive. She has invited new friends from that school to our place (which we try to encourage; it's nice to know she isn't hiding friends/relationships from us). Lately, though, the school has had an influx of transfer students, which has changed the "vibe" from "positive, supportive, community" to "toxic, disrespectful, chaotic". SD15 was honest that a lot of the time, the new kids are so disrespectful and disruptive that she survives class by just being on her phone. I was glad she felt like she could tell me that. She also feels frustrated that there are so many kids with IEPs there but not enough IEP support staff, and she is worried that she won't pass her math class because she isn't getting support. She said she got paired with a staff member but does not get along with that staff member and let people know, but it sounds like there's nobody else. I tried to validate that it sure sounds like a stalemate -- the school may say "yes, we are meeting our legal obligations, here's your staff member" and she's saying "I get it, but we don't get along and I can't work with her". I let her know that I was there for her to support her with math if she wanted, and it made sense that she was planning to ride it out this year and see if anything changed next year.

She was also talking about this sport/activity she's involved in that she loves. It currently practices 1x/week but there's talk of increasing to 2x/week, with a corresponding increase in monthly fees. She said that Mom and Stepdad probably can't afford it if it increases, so she feels worried about losing this activity. I tried to validate that it has meant a lot to her, and it's not "just" the activity, it's the relationships that matter to her, too. She said she's considered getting a job to fund it, but she knows if she tries to do a job plus HS (her school has extra long days), she will be super wiped out -- maybe too much to do the sport, anyway. I said it's good that she knows herself that well.

SD15 sometimes gets wrapped up in "I've decided that X won't work, so I can't process new information that X might work with a different plan". I'd love to sit down with her and pencil out: hey, look, you don't actually have to get a job during the school year, because if you get a summertime job, and work Z hours, and save it, then that totally covers the potential school year fee increase. Just work 8 hours a week (or whatever) during the school year and you're set! Haven't brought it up yet though.

I also didn't bring up H and I covering the difference, and she didn't ask. That is one of my sore spots and I have fear about that -- that the kids will lose out on something that was Mom's responsibility, and instead of them saying "Wow, if Mom had made different choices, then I would've been taken care of", they'd say "You knew I needed help, and you have the money, and you didn't". So I guess that went OK if SD15 didn't immediately turn to "why can't you just pay".

...

Anyway, lots of kind of low key positive stuff going on. It's a nice change, and for those of you who don't know our backstory, it was ~10 years of emotional high conflict; just a couple of examples were that 2013/2014 was when SD18 told us "you're not my family" and 2021/2 was SD15 not wanting to spend the night at our house. I never thought we'd get to this point of SD18 wanting our help with taxes, SD15 wanting to invite friends to our house (and wanting to invite us to her activities), and both kids wanting us help teach them to drive.

I'm still working on not "waiting for the other shoe to drop" on Friday afternoons when we pick them up, but interestingly, I'm starting to look at our weekends with the kids as the low-stress times, and off weekends where H and I have to do things with our friends as high-stress times. Never would've thought that in the past.

It's been a lot to ride out.

[kells76]

(Last update was here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357389.0)

Thought I'd share some of where we're at -- even though there's no crisis right now ( and  )

SD17 turned 18 a few weeks ago; I'm still working on stepping back from the "mom reminder" stuff and not telling her to do things (eat vegetables, brush teeth, do homework). She gets to take charge of that now. I still do "taking care of" stuff though -- making tea, fixing clothes, driving her places.

She still has a lot of back pain that is pretty inhibitive (walking ~1 mile is painful). She wants imaging/MRI, and we've talked before about how typically you have to go through lower-level stuff (PT, chiro, etc) and then get a referral if those don't work. H suggested that she follow up on that while she is insured under Mom/Stepdad, and she wants to, but said that Mom is busy/overwhelmed with trying to set up doctor appointments for SD15. H told her that she is important, too, and this is a normal thing for parents to do. We let her know that while we can't call insurance (as it is not our insurance), we would like to support her and can drive her to appointments, for example.

She has been talking off and on about getting a new job, but has a 3 month trip coming up in May, so has "believed" that she can't apply for stuff with that coming up so soon. I guess I did overstep a bit and saw an opening at a local grocery store, and asked them if they hire people with trips coming up, and they said sure. So I did tell SD18 about that -- sometimes she gets in this headspace of being very sure of a faulty belief -- but said it was information for her to have (that yes, places will hire you with big trips coming up, as long as you tell them) versus pressure to do anything specific.

A few weeks back, when we were celebrating her birthday with my family, my BIL joked that "you'll know you're an adult when you have your first existential crisis" and SD18 was like "I already had one, with the first divorce". H and I kind of looked at each other, like "first...? what's the second one?" He asked her about if she was concerned about H and I and she said no. I haven't followed up with her on it but I don't think things are just naturally getting better at Mom's house between Mom and Stepdad.

We visited some other family this past weekend, and both kids were really sweet with my 3YO niece. SD15 swears she doesn't like kids/babies but will pat her on the head and swing her around. SD18 really likes N3 and has her "help" draw in her sketchbook. N3 loves them both and they have fun telling her stories like "want to know why my hair is purple? It's because the hair fairy visited me at night", so now N3 believes that when you turn 15, the hair fairy turns your hair different colors.

Driving home from that, it was quiet in the car for a bit, then H was singing a little. SD18 joined in and they both sang some U2 acapella.

Then yesterday H got to help SD18 with her first taxes (she asked him specifically for help).

H and SD15 still love watching zombie shows together. They've watched all the original "Walking Dead" and are now watching all the spinoffs. SD18 and I excuse ourselves and go do something relaxing, H and SD15 love the gore. They also love making "zombie survival" bags together, selling stuff on eBay, and plotting to go to Renaissance fairs.

SD15 talked a lot this weekend to me about stuff going on in her life. She started HS last fall at an arts charter school and the first term was very positive. She has invited new friends from that school to our place (which we try to encourage; it's nice to know she isn't hiding friends/relationships from us). Lately, though, the school has had an influx of transfer students, which has changed the "vibe" from "positive, supportive, community" to "toxic, disrespectful, chaotic". SD15 was honest that a lot of the time, the new kids are so disrespectful and disruptive that she survives class by just being on her phone. I was glad she felt like she could tell me that. She also feels frustrated that there are so many kids with IEPs there but not enough IEP support staff, and she is worried that she won't pass her math class because she isn't getting support. She said she got paired with a staff member but does not get along with that staff member and let people know, but it sounds like there's nobody else. I tried to validate that it sure sounds like a stalemate -- the school may say "yes, we are meeting our legal obligations, here's your staff member" and she's saying "I get it, but we don't get along and I can't work with her". I let her know that I was there for her to support her with math if she wanted, and it made sense that she was planning to ride it out this year and see if anything changed next year.

She was also talking about this sport/activity she's involved in that she loves. It currently practices 1x/week but there's talk of increasing to 2x/week, with a corresponding increase in monthly fees. She said that Mom and Stepdad probably can't afford it if it increases, so she feels worried about losing this activity. I tried to validate that it has meant a lot to her, and it's not "just" the activity, it's the relationships that matter to her, too. She said she's considered getting a job to fund it, but she knows if she tries to do a job plus HS (her school has extra long days), she will be super wiped out -- maybe too much to do the sport, anyway. I said it's good that she knows herself that well.

SD15 sometimes gets wrapped up in "I've decided that X won't work, so I can't process new information that X might work with a different plan". I'd love to sit down with her and pencil out: hey, look, you don't actually have to get a job during the school year, because if you get a summertime job, and work Z hours, and save it, then that totally covers the potential school year fee increase. Just work 8 hours a week (or whatever) during the school year and you're set! Haven't brought it up yet though.

I also didn't bring up H and I covering the difference, and she didn't ask. That is one of my sore spots and I have fear about that -- that the kids will lose out on something that was Mom's responsibility, and instead of them saying "Wow, if Mom had made different choices, then I would've been taken care of", they'd say "You knew I needed help, and you have the money, and you didn't". So I guess that went OK if SD15 didn't immediately turn to "why can't you just pay".

...

Anyway, lots of kind of low key positive stuff going on. It's a nice change, and for those of you who don't know our backstory, it was ~10 years of emotional high conflict; just a couple of examples were that 2013/2014 was when SD18 told us "you're not my family" and 2021/2 was SD15 not wanting to spend the night at our house. I never thought we'd get to this point of SD18 wanting our help with taxes, SD15 wanting to invite friends to our house (and wanting to invite us to her activities), and both kids wanting us help teach them to drive.

I'm still working on not "waiting for the other shoe to drop" on Friday afternoons when we pick them up, but interestingly, I'm starting to look at our weekends with the kids as the low-stress times, and off weekends where H and I have to do things with our friends as high-stress times. Never would've thought that in the past.

It's been a lot to ride out.

[Pook075]

That's definitely nice to hear- I didn't know a lot of your backstory and it sounds like a regular old healthy blended family.  I'll be wading into those waters soon enough and I'm mostly looking forward to the new dynamics.

Like you, waiting for that darn shoe to drop was the story of my life until maybe 2 or 3 years ago, when I realized that I just didn't have enough spare energy to care.  Let the darn thing drop and I'll deal with it then, LOL.  Life has become a lot more simple since then (especially with my BPD kid) and being almost drama-free is a true blessing.

Funny story, my fiancee overseas was FURIOUS with her son the other day because he said that he washed his plate after lunch...and then went out to play.  She starts to rant a little (like parents do when we're frustrated) and I start laughing, because I could picture myself doing that many years ago.  So she's rambling on and I'm trying not to smile (video call), and she's doing her best not to get mad at me while she continues her venting. 

Finally she snapped and said, "Why are you laughing at me?  This isn't funny at all!"  And I replied, "Baby, you're mad at him but you're punishing yourself.  Just relax and take a breath."  After a quick evil look, I watched all the tension ease out of her body and she started laughing too.

That self-induced stress has no place in our lives and I'm glad you're getting a firm handle on it.  Life is too short to be mad or anxious about anybody.  Thanks for sharing!

[Notwendy]

It sounds like you and your H have some solid bonds with the kids.

Now that SD 18 is an adult, can she list you and your H as permissible contacts for medical care? I think she could do that which would allow you two to assist with helping her get evaluated. It would be the physician's office that interacts with insurance for coverage and they would be able to relay information to you if she signed HIPPAA forms to allow them to discuss her care with you. She also has the option to decide what they can discuss with others and what she wants to remain confidential. At 18, she'd have to also sign for them to speak to her mother too.

I think your efforts to bond with the kids are beoming evident. The divorce may have been disruptive but staying together doesn't guarantee the kids won't be exposed to chaos either.  We don't know the road not taken- but the decision to split also has given them a stable home life for part of the time when they are with you and your H. Your step kids are still at the teen age stage where they are critical of adults- so of course they will point to the divorce as a negative- but they can not comprehend the complexity of relationships yet.

[kells76]

That's definitely nice to hear- I didn't know a lot of your backstory and it sounds like a regular old healthy blended family.  I'll be wading into those waters soon enough and I'm mostly looking forward to the new dynamics.

In a way, I'm glad I didn't have kids before H and I got married; the only parenting I've known is stepparenting. What I have learned is that I am not always able to (step)parent the way I want to. Even though I didn't have preconceived ideas of "what worked" from biological parenting, I still had ideas, and lots of them have had to go out the window.

I read somewhere that it can take 5 years for a blended family to "feel like a real family", and my guess is that is without high/covert conflict. We definitely have taken more like 9 years.

Yeah, I think my first post here was in May 2015. Hard to believe I've been here almost a decade! Feel free to look back at those; I think they're all available.

Like you, waiting for that darn shoe to drop was the story of my life until maybe 2 or 3 years ago, when I realized that I just didn't have enough spare energy to care.  Let the darn thing drop and I'll deal with it then, LOL.  Life has become a lot more simple since then (especially with my BPD kid) and being almost drama-free is a true blessing.

My H is much better about "let's cope with the crisis when it comes, not agonize about it before". Work in progress for me.

That self-induced stress has no place in our lives and I'm glad you're getting a firm handle on it.  Life is too short to be mad or anxious about anybody.  Thanks for sharing!

That's one of the bigger lessons I've learned here and with my T: that (a), fundamentally I have a choice about if I participate in something stressful, even if I frame it to myself as "but I have to ____", and (b), I need to work on differentiating between real crises that do actually happen in my life, that I am a little more attuned to due to patterns of behavior (i.e., sometimes Mom and Stepdad really do high-stress things, and it is appropriate to have a big response to those), versus when my "filters" increase a crisis that's actually a 3/10 up to a 8/10, because I'm activated much of the time. Kind of a "radar" (sensing what is actually really there) versus "filter" (artificially amplifying a small crisis into an emotionally big one) effect.

[kells76]

Now that SD 18 is an adult, can she list you and your H as permissible contacts for medical care? I think she could do that which would allow you two to assist with helping her get evaluated. It would be the physician's office that interacts with insurance for coverage and they would be able to relay information to you if she signed HIPPAA forms to allow them to discuss her care with you. She also has the option to decide what they can discuss with others and what she wants to remain confidential. At 18, she'd have to also sign for them to speak to her mother too.

Thank you for the idea, Notwendy! H or I can talk to SD18 about that option -- that she can sign whatever waivers she wants and that if we are included, we may be able to help some more.

I think your efforts to bond with the kids are beoming evident. The divorce may have been disruptive but staying together doesn't guarantee the kids won't be exposed to chaos either.  We don't know the road not taken- but the decision to split also has given them a stable home life for part of the time when they are with you and your H. Your step kids are still at the teen age stage where they are critical of adults- so of course they will point to the divorce as a negative- but they can not comprehend the complexity of relationships yet.

Always good to remind myself that even though SD18 is "an adult", she's still a kid in many ways, and it can take brain maturity plus relational experience to start to have the wisdom and ability to reflect on adult relationships. There just isn't a way to "explain" that stuff to her in a way she'd understand in an embodied way right now, and it'd be more about "me" ("she needs to know my point of view so that I feel like an OK person") than about helping her.

[Pook075]

That's one of the bigger lessons I've learned here and with my T: that (a), fundamentally I have a choice about if I participate in something stressful, even if I frame it to myself as "but I have to ____", and (b), I need to work on differentiating between real crises that do actually happen in my life, that I am a little more attuned to due to patterns of behavior (i.e., sometimes Mom and Stepdad really do high-stress things, and it is appropriate to have a big response to those), versus when my "filters" increase a crisis that's actually a 3/10 up to a 8/10, because I'm activated much of the time. Kind of a "radar" (sensing what is actually really there) versus "filter" (artificially amplifying a small crisis into an emotionally big one) effect.

So many stories here (my own included) dealt with walking on eggshells and being filled with dread over what might happen.  What I finally figured out what that the anticipation would have me way off balance going into those situations and I'd have so much anxiety that it made things a lot worse than they had to be.  Even though my ex may have been the one to blow things up, I was lighting the fuse without even realizing it or saying a single word.

My BPD kid in particular, oh my gosh...I was the worst at anticipating blowout drama.  But I never realized until years later that my outlook played a part as well.  If we could only teach everyone here just one thing, that would be what I'd pick- don't worry about what you can't control, especially if it hasn't happened yet.

The other thing is being able to actually let go- what happened yesterday doesn't have to have anything do with what will happen tomorrow if I choose to forgive and forget.  It's easier said than done, but I'm getting better at it and validating my own feelings.

[livednlearned]

A decade! Wow.  

I still remember the art gallery exhibit with BPD mom.  

My H is much better about "let's cope with the crisis when it comes, not agonize about it before". Work in progress for me.

Me too kells76. I can really identify with things taking longer to gel in a blended family and the feeling things will go sideways if you take your eye off the dropping shoe.

I wouldn't underestimate how important you've been to that process, too, although I know sometimes there can be a real cost for that. Consistency and stability and normalcy is a foundation that takes so long to appreciate for kids who think emotional chaos is normal. The girls, whether they understand it yet or not, are so fortunate you were there during their formative years, especially since they are probably looking at the choices mom and stepdad have made and are seeing that play out.

You've been so careful and thoughtful while building skills in midair. There's no doubt it takes skill to blend a family when there's PDs involved even if it never feels like we get to mastery.

For us, the crises feel more manageable although not less heart breaking as we enter our second decade. Lately I've been thinking a lot about the triangle concept from Bowen's family systems theory and how those triangles have worked in our family. I think if at least one person didn't understand those dynamics, we would be in much worse shape, and not just because of SD26's BPD traits.

I remember reading your posts thinking that there were so many triangles happening, especially because you were actually co-parenting (whereas in our family the kids had more-or-less aged out). Our issues were mostly about blending, which was hard but not as hard as trying to fully co-parent, at least I have to imagine.

Lately I notice I have to set up tests for myself to see if it's a me thing or a them thing. I don't know quite how to describe it ... like when SD26 came to visit my nervous system was at an 8 even though, for the most part, things were at a 5. Until the last day when SD26 went into my bedroom and bathroom and locked the door, and I hit a 10.

It would be great to not have to hover at an 8 if 5 is happening 90 percent of the time, but it's hard to let down your guard when you know that 10 percent, level 10 episode has a high chance of happening  

I like what your T says about it being a choice. For me it's more like managing my nervous system. Part of the time I opt to not get involved and other times it doesn't feel like a choice. I just have to get myself back to baseline one way or the other, with or without H.

[PeteWitsend]

...

I read somewhere that it can take 5 years for a blended family to "feel like a real family", and my guess is that is without high/covert conflict. We definitely have taken more like 9 years.

...

Thanks for posting this update; it's helpful to read through, see how things are going for your family & get your perspective on things, as a step-parent and partner to someone who was married to a BPD-er.

One thing I've learned (and sometimes still struggle with accepting) is that everything moves at its own pace, and that may not match up with my expectations of what was supposed to happened, or when something should've happened.  And I would blame myself for that, as though I should have foreseen it better, or done something different.  But I've learned there's so much out of my control, and so much out there I just don't know, that I need to accept the timing of things more naturally, particularly when they involve other people. 

[kells76]

I still remember the art gallery exhibit with BPD mom.  

Me too -- kind of a formative moment for understanding what we were dealing with, and for realizing that I had choices about participating. I remember DreamGirl here really pushing that and me being resistant; it's taken a long time to internalize that lesson. (Apparently that all happened in 2018 -- it feels like longer ago).

I wouldn't underestimate how important you've been to that process, too, although I know sometimes there can be a real cost for that. Consistency and stability and normalcy is a foundation that takes so long to appreciate for kids who think emotional chaos is normal. The girls, whether they understand it yet or not, are so fortunate you were there during their formative years, especially since they are probably looking at the choices mom and stepdad have made and are seeing that play out.

The newest stuff is that Stepdad brought his girlfriend to SD15's school play, but Mom also brought... someone... to the school play (the brief backstory is that as far as I know, Mom and Stepdad are still married, but Stepdad started some kind of "supportive thing" with Girlfriend a few years ago... supporting her as she and her then-husband, who used to be close friends with Stepdad, got a divorce). They all sat together next to us. I'm sad that what's being modeled for the kids is relational instability, but I also didn't bring it up with either of them (or with H, who was also there and saw everyone). I think H and I are at the point of not being surprised by unstable stuff anymore, but accepting (in terms of radical acceptance, not in terms of approbation) that that's just who they are and what they're gonna do.

You've been so careful and thoughtful while building skills in midair. There's no doubt it takes skill to blend a family when there's PDs involved even if it never feels like we get to mastery.

For us, the crises feel more manageable although not less heart breaking as we enter our second decade. Lately I've been thinking a lot about the triangle concept from Bowen's family systems theory and how those triangles have worked in our family. I think if at least one person didn't understand those dynamics, we would be in much worse shape, and not just because of SD26's BPD traits.

I remember reading your posts thinking that there were so many triangles happening, especially because you were actually co-parenting (whereas in our family the kids had more-or-less aged out). Our issues were mostly about blending, which was hard but not as hard as trying to fully co-parent, at least I have to imagine.

Sometimes I wonder if I should be less careful? What my T keeps repeating is that I may need to take some risks in relationships. I don't tend to -- I play it safe and withdraw for protection. Is it better or worse for the kids that I keep my mouth shut about what I see Mom and Stepdad doing? I don't know. Would it be better for them for me to step out there and say "you know what, I actually totally see what's going on"?

I've really steered away from commenting to the kids about anyone else's relationships, because I don't want to engage in unhealthy triangles. But there can be healthy triangles, and triangles just kind of happen in families though it's a choice whether it's healthy or unhealthy. Could I healthily "triangulate" (i.e., "winner's triangle", coaching, etc) with the kids so they feel like they're not the only ones seeing what's going on? Stepparenting is this weird position where maybe you're too emotionally close to be neutral, but still, out of all the family members, you might be the most neutral option. Hard to say.

Lately I notice I have to set up tests for myself to see if it's a me thing or a them thing. I don't know quite how to describe it ... like when SD26 came to visit my nervous system was at an 8 even though, for the most part, things were at a 5. Until the last day when SD26 went into my bedroom and bathroom and locked the door, and I hit a 10.

It would be great to not have to hover at an 8 if 5 is happening 90 percent of the time, but it's hard to let down your guard when you know that 10 percent, level 10 episode has a high chance of happening  

I like what your T says about it being a choice. For me it's more like managing my nervous system. Part of the time I opt to not get involved and other times it doesn't feel like a choice. I just have to get myself back to baseline one way or the other, with or without H.

Maybe that's where I'm ending up -- I don't feel mastery over stepparenting, it just feels like making things more manageable and survivable. And things are often pretty good, so that's nice, but it doesn't feel like "ah, things are good because I've become so competent and can handle whatever parenting is thrown at me", it feels more like "as much as this situation should be about parenting, it's really about my emotional state". I guess in a weird way, the real problem in high conflict coparenting/stepparenting boils down to my inner state. I'm my own biggest problem, not anything that anyone does "out there". Not sure if that makes sense -- I guess it's the idea of "the problem is how unmanaged my own responses are". So if I can work on the core problem -- me and how not at baseline I am -- then other crises kind of resolve themselves. We'll see if I take my own advice.

[kells76]

One thing I've learned (and sometimes still struggle with accepting) is that everything moves at its own pace, and that may not match up with my expectations of what was supposed to happened, or when something should've happened.  And I would blame myself for that, as though I should have foreseen it better, or done something different.  But I've learned there's so much out of my control, and so much out there I just don't know, that I need to accept the timing of things more naturally, particularly when they involve other people. 

I'm learning that in T right now, too. I can rationally tell myself "I've learned to do healthy approach X", and I can consciously say "I am now committed to doing X, and because I have information that X is good, I have no reason not to do X", but that's not the level at which those kinds of changes happen. I can talk all day long about "X is the way I want to live" but it takes time for the... psyche, maybe? to change, and it feels like a process over which I don't have conscious control.

So yeah, I, too, would get into blaming myself: "I know better than to do Y, I know I should do X, and I see myself doing Y instead of X, so I must not be trying hard enough".

Accepting emotional discomfort is hard for us, too -- not just the pwBPD in our lives.

[Notwendy]

The newest stuff is that Stepdad brought his girlfriend to SD15's school play, but Mom also brought... someone... to the school play (the brief backstory is that as far as I know, Mom and Stepdad are still married, but Stepdad started some kind of "supportive thing" with Girlfriend a few years ago... supporting her as she and her then-husband, who used to be close friends with Stepdad, got a divorce).

I don't feel mastery over stepparenting, it just feels like making things more manageable and survivable. And things are often pretty good, so that's nice, but it doesn't feel like "ah, things are good because I've become so competent and can handle whatever parenting is thrown at me", it feels more like "as much as this situation should be about parenting, it's really about my emotional state".

Kells - I am not a step parent but I think this goes for parenting too. Do we ever become masters at it?  Is it always smooth sailing with teens? I think teens challenge us in the search for their own identity- even if they are generally good kids. I think we can put our foot down when it comes to behaviors that have serious consequences-but beyond that- they are going to make their own choices that will probably aggravate parents at some point. I also think parents make mistakes sometimes. What doesn't waver and is important is unconditional love and consistency and that the kids feel secure with their parents. I think you have achieved that.

Whatever relationships the kids are exposed to, you and your H have role modeled a stable and committed one.

[ForeverDad]

If there was a divorce, it would be in their county's records.  The case, if any, should be publicly available, even online, but just as a case summary.

[livednlearned]

Sometimes I wonder if I should be less careful? What my T keeps repeating is that I may need to take some risks in relationships. I don't tend to -- I play it safe and withdraw for protection. Is it better or worse for the kids that I keep my mouth shut about what I see Mom and Stepdad doing? I don't know. Would it be better for them for me to step out there and say "you know what, I actually totally see what's going on"?

I can imagine an opportunity presenting itself to you where taking a risk feels less risky.

For me, something was happening in our family and I needed to address it (like SD26's way of handling her suicidal ideation). I figured it was worth taking that risk because in my heart I knew that triangle dynamics were in play and what was happening didn't feel emotionally safe for (in particular) my older stepdaughter. I've come to believe that the family has to be healthy in order for SD26 to be healthy. It feels like it's easier for me to monitor the health of our family when it involves SD26 because I have just enough emotional distance and have invested more in communication and relationship skills. Not to mention that SD26 crises are very flooding for H, making it hard for him to see a bigger picture.

With stepmom/stepdad dynamics, I can imagine that one or both of your kids will have a relationship crisis and the opportunity to address things will present itself. With my situation, I had to do a lot of pre-work to figure out what my intention was, and be really clear about it so I didn't get tangled up and lost in a potentially loaded conversation.

I've really steered away from commenting to the kids about anyone else's relationships, because I don't want to engage in unhealthy triangles. But there can be healthy triangles, and triangles just kind of happen in families though it's a choice whether it's healthy or unhealthy. Could I healthily "triangulate" (i.e., "winner's triangle", coaching, etc) with the kids so they feel like they're not the only ones seeing what's going on? Stepparenting is this weird position where maybe you're too emotionally close to be neutral, but still, out of all the family members, you might be the most neutral option. Hard to say.

How do you think they would respond? Have you done something like with small stuff and gotten any signs of how they might react?

My guess is that more will open up as they mature. With SD29, it was recovery from a BPD/NPD type relationship that really shook her. Then discovering how hard life was on her own and leaning on us for stability and support, since it was so weird and chaotic and inconsistent at her mom's house.

If your kids find it hard to launch or seem to need stability, are you and H on the same page about them moving in with you at some point? That's the part of step parenting that took me most by surprise.

[kells76]

With stepmom/stepdad dynamics, I can imagine that one or both of your kids will have a relationship crisis and the opportunity to address things will present itself. With my situation, I had to do a lot of pre-work to figure out what my intention was, and be really clear about it so I didn't get tangled up and lost in a potentially loaded conversation.

Maybe I need to wait and know that it'll be clear when it's time to take a conversational risk, and if it isn't clear now, then it isn't the time?

How do you think they would respond? Have you done something like with small stuff and gotten any signs of how they might react?

It depends. SD18 will hear H and I, I think, when we come out and say something that faces into what's going on at Mom's house -- she won't immediately defend it -- and it sounds like SD15 can also be in the "hearing and not defensive" space about some things, but it doesn't feel like either of them are past that. Neither seems very curious about what else I think or see, or why I think or see those things. I guess part of that could be they're in that really myopic teen developmental phase where they just are most concerned about themselves and their peers, with little deep interest or curiosity in adults.

If your kids find it hard to launch or seem to need stability, are you and H on the same page about them moving in with you at some point? That's the part of step parenting that took me most by surprise.

Yes, we're both open to it -- right now the kids aren't -- but who knows what will happen. SD18 now wants to move to this country where her friend lives and get a job there -- though fortunately it would be not that far from where H and I plan to move in a few years once they launch. H thinks that SD15 will likely pull away from us a lot when she turns 18; I think he's right.

...

Couple more updates.

SD18 was kind of bait-y last week. H was playing a song for all of us on youtube -- it had come up in conversation -- and as we were listening to the lyrics, SD18 said "Wow, is this about [tension-filled social topic]?" Um, no, not everything is about that    I made what I thought was the neutral comment of "lyrics like this can speak to lots of different people. To me it reads like unrequited love" to which SD18 said "You can have unrequited love with a parent". Neither H nor I touched that. It didn't seem like a genuine "I want to talk about my relationship with Dad" statement, more of a "gunning for a conflict" statement. She didn't pursue it after that.

H was driving SD15 home from a friend's house and they got to talking. Apparently Mom promised SD15 at Christmas that she (Mom) would change SD15's name legally. Now Mom is asking H for SD15's birth certificate to make it happen. SD15 also said she "doesn't feel at home" with us. H was able to talk with her about her nearly continuous phone use, and she did seem to hear him when he shared that he wants to have a relationship with her but the phone gets in the way.

If I were to take my own advice about hearing all that, I'd tell myself I shouldn't be surprised. It ticks all the boxes of high conflict: Mom making promises she doesn't immediately (or ever) keep, Mom "buying" the kids' loyalty through doing whatever they say they want, Mom hiding huge decisions from H.

I didn't/don't feel anything overtly about it -- I'm not ruminating, thinking circles, consciously anxious/elevated heart rate, distracted... but I think it's still impacting me. Maybe the dynamic is that there are two parts to hearing stuff like that from Mom's house: one is surprise/shock/being caught off guard, and the other is the actual impact on me physically/emotionally. Even though I'm basically "over" ever being surprised or shocked by anything Mom does any more, that doesn't mean there's no impact on me. So I guess I'm feeling some depression, hopelessness, powerlessness, and grief again, underneath the surface of being normally functional.

[ForeverDad]

(1) If I wanted to, I could go to the county my son was born in and ask for a certified birth certificate any weekday of the week. If H isn't keen on SD15 changing her name, does he need to support it?  Also, even if bioMom has custody but he's an involved parent, isn't his agreement required?  Sorry, I don't know the process in your area.  All I'm saying is that if H's cooperation is not needed, then why not stay hands off?

(2) Is this a change of her surname?  Does she realize that then her surname would be different from her older sister's surname?  (Of course, if/when they married their surnames may change anyway.)

(3) If it is a change to match BioMom's name, who really instigated this idea?  Is bioMoms marriage stable enough to last?  I thought it had become an open marriage if notalsoa bit troubled.  It would be weird if SD15 made the change and then her mom later changed her name to something else.

However, if her name does get changed legally then I can understand the need for her to get her passport updated.

[Turkish]

(1) If I wanted to, I could go to the county my son was born in and ask for a certified birth certificate any weekday of the week.

Yes. It's not rocket science. When my mom passed and I was trying to get excess tax lein sale proceeds from her (her husband's property into which she'd put his name), I had to get her death certificate, their marriage certificate, and extra copies of my birth certificate. The first two I did in person on two different counties, the last by mail (online) to my birth county.

When my ex asked me to get BCs for both of the kids so she could get their passports, I told her that she could go to the county to get them or get them mailed by purchasing online. I did lose one of them and apologized.

Mom can get her own daughter's BC!

For adults, it's good to have at least one extra certified copy anyway. In told my ex to purchase 2 copies and I'd split the cost. She did and I did.

Changing names seems like she's searching for an identity.

[Notwendy]

Couple more updates.

SD18 was kind of bait-y last week. H was playing a song for all of us on youtube -- it had come up in conversation -- and as we were listening to the lyrics, SD18 said "Wow, is this about [tension-filled social topic]?" Um, no, not everything is about that    I made what I thought was the neutral comment of "lyrics like this can speak to lots of different people. To me it reads like unrequited love" to which SD18 said "You can have unrequited love with a parent".

H was driving SD15 home from a friend's house and they got to talking. Apparently Mom promised SD15 at Christmas that she (Mom) would change SD15's name legally. Now Mom is asking H for SD15's birth certificate to make it happen.

I can relate to that statement "unrequited love" with a parent. While I understand your not wanting to get into it, another response could be "can you explain what you mean by this" as it would be interesting to hear her thoughts on it. How I'd explain it now is that- I felt that gaining love and approval in my family was conditional- and the one "condition" was on compliance with BPD mother. It felt as if I was the one doing the work of trying to gain his approval. If your SD mentions this again- I think it would be insightful to hear what she has to say. It's possible she means your H as well, but keeping in mind- she is very influenced by what she hears at her mother's house- and still- she has her own ideas and may want to be heard.

Maybe I am old fashioned but I don't understand the legal name change at age 15.  Many people use a different nickname than their given name. How is changing the name on her birth certificate going to be of help to her at this time?

[kells76]

(1) If I wanted to, I could go to the county my son was born in and ask for a certified birth certificate any weekday of the week. If H isn't keen on SD15 changing her name, does he need to support it?  Also, even if bioMom has custody but he's an involved parent, isn't his agreement required?  Sorry, I don't know the process in your area.  All I'm saying is that if H's cooperation is not needed, then why not stay hands off?

I'll remind H about the option of Mom getting the copy herself. I think the "setup" is Mom wants to win either way. If H doesn't give her our copy of the BC, then "he never listens to what you want, he doesn't support you, I'm the only one who supports you". And if H does give her the copy, then he's been enlisted into Mom's plan. He may be up for dealing with Mom's flak. After all, if Mom complains "it's too expensive" to order a BC copy herself, then where does she think she'll get the rest of the money for a legal name change?

(2) Is this a change of her surname?  Does she realize that then her surname would be different from her older sister's surname?  (Of course, if/when they married their surnames may change anyway.)

First name only would be my guess, but hey, who knows. SD15 never had the angst about last name that SD18 used to have.

(3) If it is a change to match BioMom's name, who really instigated this idea?  Is bioMoms marriage stable enough to last?  I thought it had become an open marriage if notalsoa bit troubled.  It would be weird if SD15 made the change and then her mom later changed her name to something else.

However, if her name does get changed legally then I can understand the need for her to get her passport updated.

Yeah, I suspect that now that Stepdad might be in Mom's black books, there's less incentive to get the kids to change their last names to his.

[kells76]

Yes. It's not rocket science. When my mom passed and I was trying to get excess tax lein sale proceeds from her (her husband's property into which she'd put his name), I had to get her death certificate, their marriage certificate, and extra copies of my birth certificate. The first two I did in person on two different counties, the last by mail (online) to my birth county.

When my ex asked me to get BCs for both of the kids so she could get their passports, I told her that she could go to the county to get them or get them mailed by purchasing online. I did lose one of them and apologized.

Mom can get her own daughter's BC!

For adults, it's good to have at least one extra certified copy anyway. In told my ex to purchase 2 copies and I'd split the cost. She did and I did.

That's a good strategy.

Changing names seems like she's searching for an identity.

Oh, 100%, but SD15 isn't going to hear it. I'm not surprised that a kid raised by a mom with little to no sense of self -- who modeled that the way you are a self is contingent on others -- would also be looking to externals to feel "real". And for all this to be happening at age 15.5 is no surprise either. But yeah, telling a 15.5 year old "you're just doing a developmentally normal process, you're still trying to find yourself"... that's not going to fly.

The "funny" thing too is that -- since when has Mom ever thought a legal document had weight? Like, if a court ordered parenting plan was "optional", why would a legal name change suddenly be meaningful in a way that using a nickname isn't? Sigh... I shouldn't be surprised at the "rules for you, not for me" approach.

[kells76]

I can relate to that statement "unrequited love" with a parent. While I understand your not wanting to get into it, another response could be "can you explain what you mean by this" as it would be interesting to hear her thoughts on it. How I'd explain it now is that- I felt that gaining love and approval in my family was conditional- and the one "condition" was on compliance with BPD mother. It felt as if I was the one doing the work of trying to gain his approval. If your SD mentions this again- I think it would be insightful to hear what she has to say. It's possible she means your H as well, but keeping in mind- she is very influenced by what she hears at her mother's house- and still- she has her own ideas and may want to be heard.

Reflecting back, that would be a better approach -- just having curiosity about what she means. It's still hard for me to take my "danger filter" off of those interactions. It could've been a "generally normal" conversation but I tend to assume it'll be more blame and anger than I can handle. I think I need to prep myself well ahead of time to be able to choose to say "tell me more about that".

You're right that none of it may have been about H or me, and that truly, it should be more important to me what she has to say than how I feel about it.

Maybe I am old fashioned but I don't understand the legal name change at age 15.  Many people use a different nickname than their given name. How is changing the name on her birth certificate going to be of help to her at this time?

I think it's Mom buying SD15's favor/attachment. "Look at what I'll do for you, I'm the one who truly listens to you, I take you seriously and treat you like a mature person."

[Turkish]

For a BC, It's $29 in California and I'd suspect less most other states. That's less than me and the 2 kids going to Panda Express (one of the few cheaper fast food places here). She can order her own copy.

[GaGrl]

Unfortunate!y, it's $80 in both Georgia and Alabama. My H's found out the hard way when their mother wouldn't cooperate on documentation.

[Notwendy]

Reflecting back, that would be a better approach -- just having curiosity about what she means. It's still hard for me to take my "danger filter" off of those interactions. It could've been a "generally normal" conversation but I tend to assume it'll be more blame and anger than I can handle. I think I need to prep myself well ahead of time to be able to choose to say "tell me more about that".

You're right that none of it may have been about H or me, and that truly, it should be more important to me what she has to say than how I feel about it.

I am curious why it's a danger. I recall some rough spots going through the teen years with my kids. In trying to figure out who they are, teens can seem critical of their parents in the process of trying to differentiate from them. I think the main boundary is- be respectful- they can have their opinions but they need to express them in a respectful manner- no name calling, etc.

It's not always rational. I could buy my teen something to wear and they'd say something critical about it, but if a friend commented they liked it- well that same outfit would then be OK. There still needs to be rules- even if the teen complains. It's hard to hear a teen being critical but in context- they don't have the understanding of an adult- it's them expressing their ideas and thoughts.

So, even if your SD's idea about unrequited love for a parent was about you or your H, and her ideas were way off base- how would it be a danger if she talked about them?

These kids have grown up in two very different households. It seems that yours is more consistent- which is a good thing. Hard to know what role model to "reject" as a teen when the ones at their mother's house seem to be constantly changing.

[livednlearned]

It's still hard for me to take my "danger filter" off of those interactions. It could've been a "generally normal" conversation but I tend to assume it'll be more blame and anger than I can handle. I think I need to prep myself well ahead of time to be able to choose to say "tell me more about that".

I totally get this. Especially because there is a weird amount of enmeshment around alt values/lifestyle with your girls and their mom/step dad.

When there is a disordered co-parenting unit it's so easy for "regular" conversations to turn into drama triangles. When SD26 was in her teens (and identifying as male ) this happened over the most innocuous comments. For example, SD26 came home from the store with men's jeans. They fit in the hips but were too wide in the waist and SD26 asked if she could use one of H's belts. SD26 tried on the jeans with H's belt, which didn't have enough holes to keep the jeans up so of course the next question was how to add more holes to the belt. H then asked me if I had a belt SD26 could use. It might seem like a simple question but there was of course more sub text and a lot going on ...

BPD mom can say to SD26 that being queer is "disgusting" (her words) but if I were to say "um, I wonder where you could get jeans and a belt that fit in the waist" I would be labeled transphobic by BPD mom and then we're off to the races  

Our kids grow up nearly expert at converting regular conversations into drama triangles.

[kells76]

I am curious why it's a danger. I recall some rough spots going through the teen years with my kids. In trying to figure out who they are, teens can seem critical of their parents in the process of trying to differentiate from them. I think the main boundary is- be respectful- they can have their opinions but they need to express them in a respectful manner- no name calling, etc.

To me, it felt like an invitation to hurtful, dangerous conflict because in the past (especially from ~2012, when I met H's kids "officially" for the first time, thru 2021 or so... so, a long time), "SD18 expressing her feelings" meant "SD18 regurgitating Mom/Stepdad's vitriol about H, and then lashing out at H if he felt hurt". There wasn't a way to "point out" to her that she wasn't separating her own feelings about H from Mom/Stepdad's feelings about H. She'd say things to him like "you're not my family" or "why would a parent hire a lawyer against their own child", but there was no door in to be like "OK, so Mom doesn't think I'm your family, but how do you feel" or "Wow, Mom told you about the legal stuff, I wonder why", because SD18 could not differentiate her own feelings from Mom's feelings and so would take those questions as personal attacks -- and then attack back: "It's not what Mom thinks, it's what I know, and you never listen, and you can't make me spend the night, and you left us".

So almost a decade of that has made it difficult for me to hear SD18 lay down an emotionally charged statement and to decide "wow, looks like a great time for me to listen to SD18 and how she genuinely feels" -- I pretty quickly go to "SD18 is discharging Mom's feelings and I am not interested in participating in a process that ends up hurting everyone involved".

I think I can sometimes differentiate between "normal teen criticism" and the "charged" stuff. For example, last weekend, we knew SD15 wanted to hang out with a friend on Sunday. We also don't micromanage the kids' sleep schedules, so she did stay up late on Saturday and then came downstairs Sunday at 12:30 saying "I'm ready to get in the car and go". When I said "OK, just clean your room first", she started to get in a mood: "You never told me ahead of time, I didn't know" so H said "It's a normal expectation" and I said "Go ahead and put in 15 minutes" and she did clean her room for 15 minutes. She seemed to come back down and shared "I just was worried about being late because my friend lives far away".

So that kind of thing doesn't set off my "danger" sensor as much -- I can see that SD15 not wanting to clean her room, and pushing back, doesn't have anything to do with Mom's feelings.

It's the other stuff -- "You can have unrequited love with a parent" -- that really sets off my sensors. It's hard for me to start to believe that SD18 has differentiated enough to separate her feelings from Mom's, because for over a decade that wasn't the case.

[Notwendy]

Yes, I understand. It's not as extensive for me but I sometimes hear "my mother" when some of her family members are talking to me. They have mostly heard her version. Even though they are mostly supportive of me - they don't know the whole of the situation. I still feel a sense of shame sometimes when I hear them say things they have heard.

So I can understand why you didn't want to proceed when hearing their "BPD mother" in her statement.

[AskingWhy]

Stepparenting is challenging at best, thankless at worst.

Each person ha to find solutions as there is no "one size fits all."

Hang in there.

[Pook075]

Maybe I need to wait and know that it'll be clear when it's time to take a conversational risk, and if it isn't clear now, then it isn't the time?

This may or may not help.  In my position, my ex was living with our daughter and our grandson, giving very jaded opinions on our relationship and me in general.  And I kept racking my brain on how to fix things- I want to be closer to my kid/grandkid, I don't want to be involved in the drama, and I don't want to have to 'censor' myself when it comes to the truth of what happened.

What I realized was that I couldn't have everything I wanted...when I wanted it.  And maybe I never will.  But as time passes and my daughter becomes perplexed at some things my ex chooses, her viewpoints are slowly aligning with mine without me having anything to do with it.

In other words, time heals all that's broken if we're willing to wait.

Do I want to wait?  Nope.  But it's the best approach for my mental health and for keeping the peace.  If something comes up, then I talk about it with my kid...being super careful to meet her where she's at in her understanding of what's going on.  So far, that's been enough and it works for everyone.