Financial Infidelity

[townhouse]

Quote from Not Wendy “He could change his mind about the break up tomorrow”

Well I don’t know if he’s changed his mind but this text arrived a short while ago.

“”I don’t really like the way we left discussions. I was wondering since we’ve both had a break, can we talk about things without getting antagonistic? You might well ask what’s there to talk about since we both assumed our relationship was over. Things get heated. I must admit I do think sometimes I’m a bit of a man servant to you, generally though butlers don’t set the agenda. So there seems to be a contradiction there. I think I would like to talk about this and other matters but not in such a heated way. I might have trouble listening, most probably have but I want to try and see where we go from there if we can listen to each other and hear what the concerns are. “”

I guess the manservant line refers to him always making me cups of tea. Certainly he does nothing else like cooking, washing, cleaning etc… although as I mentioned just the previous week he had been maniacally washing the floor and doing things in the garden which I was in complete bewilderment that he was doing these things. Surely two days of chores doesn’t mean he’s a manservant but who knows.

I replied asking how he wanted to do this? I sure as hell wasn’t going to drive there again. To my astonishment he said he’d drive the old Wagon truck down on Wednesday. He hates driving that truck for more than 20kms,  so I guess he really wants to talk. Of course next will be that he’s not confident the truck will make it and can I go up there. If he drives down I will be amazed.

Anyway, can anyone give me any thoughts on his recycling proposal text. I truly am in two minds about this.

[Notwendy]

There is a push pull pattern to these kinds of relationships- and once he's vented/pushed- he either feels better after getting rid of some of his uncomfortable feelings and/or begins to fear the loss of the relationship and then "pulls". This is why I said he may change his mind tomorrow.

Money has been a long term issue between my parents and still is one today as it involves my BPD mother's disordered emotions. Reasoning with her, trying to talk to her about it, isn't effective. I think you can see where trying to talk with your H about it is difficult.

My BPD mother is focused on her own needs when it comes to money. She doesn't seem to care how her spending was stressful for anyone else in her family, and it's not because anyone wants her money. It's because we don't want her to put herself in financial danger and she's already compromised herself.

Your line, "mentally ill con artist" comes close although I think the behavior is driven by their needs and wanting gratification rather than to con anyone. Manipulation becomes one of their "tools" to get their needs met.

I think your H wants access to your money- and since you know he's not trustworthy with money, you need to protect yours and he doesn't like that.

As to the idea of being alone in one's elder years. I think that is something that is concerning to anyone. It's sad to see that my mother is alone in her elder years but it's been mostly due to her own behavior and her choices, not because of her friends or family.

One idea to consider is to have an honest talk with your adult children. Are your children able to be honest with you? I have seen my peers work things out with their elderly parents in different ways- the parents are not alone but also the children need to have their own boundaries as well.

"Talking about it" doesn't work with my BPD mother. An "invitation" to talk is an invitation to drama, circular arguments, and her trying to get her way. You already know your H isn't trustworthy with money and so it's important to hold your boundaries on your money for your own protection.

[townhouse]

Further update

Husband didn’t come down in the truck… he texted that  the truck wouldn’t make it… it probably would, but anyway.
!!

Later he texted he’d had a terrible day with two groups of people coming through to view the house and one made a very low offer and could I please phone him. I did and he was totally out of it ranting about these terrible people who had been through the house and making a low offer. He  was making up stuff (delusional)about the Real Estate Agent and said he is working against him and trying to undersell it to the locals one of whom the RE was probably having an affair. He asked could I come up as he needed to see me and I said I would the next day.

I drove up in the morning and he seemed truly happy to see me… talked for hours about Estate Agent and finally said “can we go home, I can’t stand to be here it’s making me too stressed”

As EyesUp mentioned above

Quote
“.  If I had to guess, your H may be slightly easier to get along with when his attention is focused elsewhere - in this case, with his D and X.  And it sounds like he's got quite a triangle dynamic going there.  Have you read about the Drama Triangle?  “  …. 

So again we see the triangle only this time it’s with the Estate Agent as Persecutor, H as Victim and me now as Rescuer… Classic


So we came home. Nothing was said about end of relationship. I didn’t want to talk about it either nor the money. I need some peace as well. He will most probably take house off the market after a couple of weeks thankgoodness because while he still owns the house it is an investment and he can’t impulsively spend it or give it away.

I hope we can discuss a few things soon but for now I just want to let things calm down.

[Notwendy]

 He will most probably take house off the market after a couple of weeks thankgoodness because while he still owns the house it is an investment and he can’t impulsively spend it or give it away.

BPD mother kept her financial info private and so we had no idea how much she had or what her spending was. I do know that my father planned well and that they owned their house.

On a visit, we accidentally came across some papers that showed she had taken out a home equity loan some time ago and didn't tell us. We got concerned as this probably indicated she has spent most of her savings. She got angry at us for being concerned.

A while later she had spent about half the equity of the home and needed assisted living. We moved her to assisted living, sold the house and put the proceeds in her bank account for her expenses. Since she is still considered legally competent, it's her money and she can do what she wants with it.

It's all gone. All of it.

So yes, it is possible to leverage the equity in a house and spend it.

[townhouse]

Well country house is sold. He was thinking of keeping it when Estate Agent told him one of the low offer people put their low offer up substantially to nearly the asking price, so he has accepted it. He is still really dysregulated but with the Estate Agent not me. I am white again. He would only deal with Estate  Agent via text, he says he can’t speak to him because he will lose his temper at Estate Agents. He is delusional, making up stories as to why the people put in a low offer first. He can’t understand it and it’s driving him crazy.

He has discussed with me what he intends to do with the money from the sale of the house, which is what started this whole dysreg, that is, he is giving it to his daughter, the one with the homes. I hope it works out for them I really do, but the writing is on the wall the way the daughter has turned against her mother and is evicting her because she “feels taken for granted”

I have spoken with a Solicitor and have had good and pleasant advice, that I have actually taken good steps along the way to protect myself financially ( trust Fund etc) and also his domestic violence against me and subsequent court case is totally adding to the situation against him should he try to divorce me.

He is being very nice to me and says things like “I don’t know why you put up with me” and “I don’t know what is the matter with me”. I haven’t brought up any of the things he said or tried to point out contradictions, lies etc, because…. what’s the point. I have peace again (till the next time) and I will take peace over the dreadful time of the last 6 weeks.

He has gone down to his daughters house to discuss giving her the money and will be there 3 days ( he was home here 3 days of rest) which has annoyed me but I try to stay calm and not set things off again. At least he is ringing me morning and night telling me what they are doing and what they are discussing. She has a lot of power in their relationship as she will increase the guilt of him leaving their mother 34 years ago whenever she wants to.

I have found a therapist whom I like and we are going to be discussing about why I choose to radically accept him. Thanks again for reading/listening.

[ForeverDad]

So his troublesome daughter is booting out her mother. Seems to me her mother is the one that needs a home.  Of course, how dare you to even mention that idea to him.

[Notwendy]

So, if he can do that with a house, he can do it with the rest of your money if you were to let him have it. I am glad you met with an attorney to see it's protected, but he also may pressure you for more.  Yes, of course it's the realtor's fault, not his.

[townhouse]

He cannot actually get at any money but yes he can try to wheedle more from me but that is my choice and after him giving away his money to his daughter, my eyes are totally wide open. As regards him trying to convince me to sell my house, that is an unbreakable boundary just as if he were to be unfaithful (never has been)that too is an unbreakable boundary 

[townhouse]

I thought I would keep this thread going to keep informing anyone who cares to read about developments regarding my BPDH . He is still being very nice to me. He says that we are “ all good “ and just had a bad argument.

I’ve been to a therapist twice now and I’m telling her that although I know he doesn’t love me but at my age I’ll take it. We discussed co dependency and Yes maybe that’s me. I just want peace and as much as this last dysregulation really upset me, I think it kind of rocked H as well because he was faced with having no where to live except with his daughter who is in the process of evicting her 78 year old mother from another house. This daughter didn’t talk to her father for at least 4 years a few years ago so I guess H figured his chances of being able to live there permanently were not good.

The daughter has filed with the local authorities for this eviction, visited her mother again and has said things to the mother that has really upset her. The mother contacted the teacher daughter and that daughter has threatened to get the Elder Abuse Dept onto her sister.

Also, the sale of the country home fell through… the people didn’t get their finance. H is now more paranoid ( literally )about the Estate Agent, he’s insisting that the Agent planned all this to get at him. I try to be realistic throughout his rants but I am fully aware he could turn on me if he hears something he doesn’t like.

[Notwendy]

I hope he's seen what his D is doing and is glad he didn't put his financial future in her hands.

If your H does sell the house, I'd encourage him to keep the proceeds and invest them for his own security. Now, whether he agrees to that is another thing but is D is a very poor security investment IMHO.

[townhouse]

It’s been 5 months since I last posted on this forum and I wanted to give an update as to how things have progressed in my relationship with my BPD husband. I have chosen to use the same thread as it would be very difficult to recap what went on all those months ago.
Put simply, the country house was finally sold. In the end husband told me to negotiate with the Real Estate Agent as he couldn’t or wouldn’t speak to him. REA and I plus husband managed to agree to a sale at a very good price with a very quick settlement. Husband went on to give nearly all the money from that sale to his daughter with the properties and so the daughter stopped evicting the mother.

The daughter has now left the big 4 bedroom home she had built and has moved back into another of her other properties when that tenant left and has rented out the big 4 bedroom one. She is  still not working because she has all father’s money in the bank which reduces her mortgages and allows her living expenses.

I have not interfered or said anything against their arrangement.

Husband is quite calm at the moment, living with me at our townhouse and is actually being very pleasant to me. I understand completely our relationship and accept it for what it is in the name of Peace.

[Notwendy]

Probably the more important thing is- how do you feel about this? Are you OK with what he did or do you feel resentful?

[townhouse]

Not Wendy, I do feel resentful and if I let myself think deeply, I suppose I feel used. I wouldn’t feel this way so much if there was some acknowledgment or perhaps a ‘thanks’ of my role in providing all this ‘help’ ( he calls it) he’s been able to give his daughter.

The sorry saga drags on as daughter is showing no sign of getting employment which is slightly annoying her father.

[Notwendy]

One thing I learned in 12 steps CODA is - when am I being co-dependent, or not having boundaries, and when am I not?

The same action can be either or. The difference is if I feel resentful or not. An aspect of 12 steps is to shift our focus on to ourselves and pay attention to our feelings. (this doesn't mean being self centered- it's that our feelings are information for us- what are they?).

Although when we give someone something- it becomes theirs to do what they want to it, I think we can see the results of that and check in with our feelings. A house is a very generous gift. I think if most people gifted a house, they'd want to see the recipient appreciate and take care of it and be mindful of the value. If the recipient didn't do that - the gifter would likely feel resentful. Any further gifts would be adjusted based on that experience.

There are some quotes that I tend to think of in certain situations. One is from Maya Angelou- "when someone shows you who they are, believe them".  Now, you see what your H has done with your gift. He is who he is and you can't change that- but if someone shared your story in a 12 step group- the question would be to ask you- how do you feel about this? ( as I did) because  by focusing on you, you can see how you feel and what you will do next.

What interests me is that someone with BPD can be ungenerous with one person and overly generous and co-dependent with another. My mother tends to give outrageous gifts to some people and is stingy to others. People with BPD can be co-dependent and enabling too. You see this with your H and his daughter- but this isn't anything you can control- he's going to do what he's going to do. The boundary then needs to be what you do. Knowing that if you give him something of value- it's possibly going to go to his daughter, and you don't want something of yours to go to his daughter- then you don't give it to him.