living and learning

[jaded7]

I do have a story about this phrase actually... my ex with BPD traits told me that his ex-wife said these exact words to him as well. 'I just want to be cared for'... he said this was after they broke up for 6 months, and when they got back together, this is what she said. But... the context that he didn't tell me at the time, and I worked out afterwards... they broke up because she had an abortion and he abandoned her and ran away to his family because it all felt too much... so they broke up. He always made out that she was this really fragile, vulnerable person with huge anxiety that wanted him to just do the impossible and hold her together. And maybe she is that person. But also... maybe she's not.

But then I found myself saying these exact words to him as well as a few points in our relationship... 'I just want to be cared for'... and so I've taken time to consider what you're saying Jaded, as maybe there's something for me to learn here.

I have a lot on my plate as a single mum with two children, including one child with very high needs and extremely challenging behaviour. I don't have family around, and I also own my own business... I'm stretched... and the times where I felt low or stressed or something big happened... he couldn't be there for me... in fact he created drama if he sensed I wasn't 100% in some way... it made him feel insecure and he would usually create an argument so that whatever unease he was feeling could be brought to the surface. Once I was involved in a car crash with my son in the car too... it was minor but I was shaken up and bruised... I just wanted to go home and sleep.. but when I called him and told him what happened, he started an argument about something really odd... I tried to diffuse and validate how he felt... but said I wasn't able to agree to what he was asking me to do... I asked if we could talk about it another day, but he ended up coming around to my place not long after and literally pushed and pressed me on the matter for more than two hours... I was so exhausted I could barely walk... and eventually I shut the conversation down and said I couldn't do it any longer and needed to sleep... and crawled into bed with no dinner and feeling like absolute crap after that really intense discussion...  this is a situation I just wanted to be cared for.

I think where I'm coming from is that I do actually want to be with a man who is able to be in his masculine, and make decisions and show leadership, make me feel safe and protected... and I do want someone to give me a hug at the end of a difficult day... or make me a cup of tea... or ask if I need anything... to me, that's being cared for. Caring for people comes easy to me - I love being there for the people I love... but I do want it back. So I might say those words too, but in the context of it being a reciprocial thing...

I think you and SC bring up some important context points about 'will you take care of me?'.

We all want to be taken care of, I think. I do. And by that I mean someone who respects me, is kind, loving, listens. Or, as you say seeking, recognizes when you've had a stressful day and does something for you, or offers to help you or take something off your plate. Show you affection and love.

And yes, reciprocal. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be 'taken care of' in this sense. And one could even argue that it is healthy to state your needs in these areas.

I think 'I want to be cared for' is different from 'will you take care of me?'. All the above is what I would think of as being cared for.

So your BPD ex told you that his ex said to him 'I want to be cared for'. That makes all the sense in the world to me in terms of the above normal needs in a healthy relationship. In my experience, and many others here, our BPD partners were very self-centered, very victim-complex, very demanding to the point where we were walking on egg-shells wondering if we did the wrong thing, said the wrong thing, 'forgot' to do something, ate the 'wrong' thing, 'listened to the wrong podcast', etc. We get criticized and mocked and belittled and yelled at, seemingly for no reason.

I, myself, would have said to my partner...the very one who cried and said "will you take care of me?"....I just want to be cared for. I did say that to my friends and therapist. In the sense of above. My needs never mattered, my interests were stupid and childish, my trips and my work were disrespected, my home town sounds 'no fun'. etc.

" and the times where I felt low or stressed or something big happened... he couldn't be there for me... in fact he created drama if he sensed I wasn't 100% in some way... it made him feel insecure and he would usually create an argument so that whatever unease he was feeling could be brought to the surface."

THIS Seeking, exactly my experience. This is what I'm talking about, they can't be there for US, because it seems to cause them such stress and dysregulation to, in their  minds, 'take care of someone'. Mine actually said to me, several times "I don't HAVE TIME for your emotions!!" Or, since she thought "I ate "sh*tty food" she yelled at me once "I don't want to have to take care of you in the hospital!!!" There it is, clear as day, from the person who demanded I read her mind and just know what she wanted when she had a slight cold, who told me 'nothing and no' when I worriedly called her and asked what I can do, can I bring you something. One day when I was having a bad day, she (kindly) invited me over for lunch (the one and only time) but when I got there she felt angry to me, cold, resentful. Sitting at the table I asked her for another hug, she turned coldly to me  and said 'no.....too needy'.

Caring for people comes easily to me too, Seeking. And I thought it was trait my ex had, I assumed she did. I think you are perfectly normal for wanting someone to care for you, as you would for them.

I hope I didn't make you feel bad, and I hope this makes clear my thinking about the difference between normal wanting to be cared for and BPD-like selfish "will you take care of me".

[tina7868]

I feel grateful to read your replies! As another fellow member once said, even after a situation like this has passed, you can still learn from it down the line with fresh eyes.  

I struggled for a long time about the morals of not wanting to be with a partner with BPD. And after wrestling with this for ages I thought that actually I wouldn't 'not' be with someone just because they have BPD. If they were aware of their problems and they were put on the table and we were able to communicate honestly about them, and we had some strategies to deal with it, and I could trust them to not lie and cheat and there was a high level of commitment, I thought I could probably be 'that person' who could handle all of the volatility and emotional dysregulation and insecurity. I wouldn't turn my back on that person and I'd give what they needed. Because everyone deserves love, and it's not fair that the people who had childhood trauma end up being the people who can't have healthy love and just experience abandonment and loss their whole lives... it's just not fair. I do still feel angry at this injustice...

But I think this is my co-dependent mind talking, thinking that somehow I could have been what my ex needed because I think in practice, I'd go like a shooting star - start out strong but burn out pretty quickly... I think part of this process for me has been the need to honour who I am. And I do get stressed and tired when I've got too much on my plate and I sometimes go quiet or cry with frustration. I do feel anxiety when someone pushes me away and distances themselves from me without saying why, and I am sensitive to people being rude or aggressive to me... that's just who I am and I don't think those things are going to change or need to change? I think I do actually need a strong partner, someone who is pretty confident and has a decent level of emotional intelligence. Mainly because I have a family situation that means whoever comes is going to need resilience and the ability to work through a lot of crap... but also because I'm ready for a mature relationship with someone who is available for true intimacy. I really want to experience that.

I wonder what it would feel like to flip the focus onto you and what you want and need from a partner?

I can greatly relate to what you write, seekingtheway. I feel similarly about not wanting anyone`s mental health to be the reason why I wouldn`t want to be with them. I myself have struggles that I am actively working on, I grew up around people with shaky mental health as well, and I work in settings where I interact with people experiencing a mental health crisis. I believe in and have hope for all of us.

I get stuck on the fact that as I learn more about BPD, the more I feel like I could have shown up for him better. I don`t think I understood, nor do I currently fully understand, the extent of his limitations. I think that on one hand it was beneficial; I reassured him, I acted in ways that didn`t make him feel like anything was wrong. I am like this with people in general. Maybe naive would be a way to put it.  And because I see him like this, I feel like he can gain the skills to navigate life. It hurts that he wants to do this to be with someone else, but if I remove myself from the picture, I can be happy for him.

I think flipping the focus onto what I need from a partner is an approach that many counselors have had with me in the past. Maybe I need more therapy to be able to express that I want to be with someone who is strong and healthy and capable. As it is, if I am completely honest, I want to be with someone who I love, and if that love isn`t totally reciprocated then I`m okay with that. I understand now that being there won`t eventually lead to him recognizing me as a person of importance, on the contrary, he seems to have lessened my value because of this. But I`m glad I was there when he needed, and if he needs to think about someone who loved and cared for him (maybe not in the way he wanted) he can conjure me up.

I am struggling not to reach out to ask him how he is. I am not sure whether the way we left things off opens the door to that sort of thing, or if it would be helpful. I will talk about it during my therapy session tomorrow. What do you think?

[seekingtheway]

Hi Jaded - you didn't make me feel bad at all - I totally see where you're coming from and agree with you. It sounds like your ex needed you to be there to meet all of her needs but yours were very much a burden to her. It just reminded me that I'd said that phrase too... and I said it because I was aware that there was a big mismatch in our relationship in terms of me being there to meet his needs, but him not having the capacity or skills to meet mine and I wanted to level the playing field a bit so we didn't fall into co-dependency and cause me to burn out and resent him, just as his ex-wife did. I think he loved me and wanted to meet my needs, I do... but he literally didn't know how to do that without feeling overwhelmed or engulfed. Again, i just always think through the lens now of my ex unconsciously seeing me as a parent figure - that was my function to him, to be strong and steady and present to meet his needs and be the calm in his storm. The moment I wasn't any of those things for even a day, he would become extremely anxious and create a fight... which over time was really damaging to me to have someone causing extra chaos on my lowest, most stressful days... I didn't need him to come and save the day for me, I just wanted him to be around as normal and not cause extra chaos.

Hi Tina - I feel the same way as you about mental health. I have hope for us all as well. I really do and I feel strongly about it and believe there's always space for compassion. But yes, totally agree with you, I don't think that we can truly understand the true limitations of someone with BPD until we're in it. And how those limitations might make you feel, and ultimately in turn limit you from showing up in a way that he needs as well?

I hear what you're saying about being glad you were there for him - I guess that's the selfless part of love, where you're truly just giving it without anything expected in return. But from what you were saying, being there for him was hurting you... which of course it would. So I'd say in response to your question about contacting him - are you ready for the fact that if you open the door to checking on him, you might be hurting your own heart in the process? And also potentially confusing the boundary you've tried to set with him in terms of not being the one to be there for him?

I don't get this stuff right at all, and it's so much easier to look from the outside at someone else's situation, but I hope that what you choose to do protects and takes care of your own heart first and foremost... whilst still leaving that beautiful care and compassion for others in there too, which I have no doubt you'll always do anyway.

[jaded7]

Hi Jaded - you didn't make me feel bad at all - I totally see where you're coming from and agree with you. It sounds like your ex needed you to be there to meet all of her needs but yours were very much a burden to her. It just reminded me that I'd said that phrase too... and I said it because I was aware that there was a big mismatch in our relationship in terms of me being there to meet his needs, but him not having the capacity or skills to meet mine and I wanted to level the playing field a bit so we didn't fall into co-dependency and cause me to burn out and resent him, just as his ex-wife did. I think he loved me and wanted to meet my needs,

Oh good, thank you Seeking. Jus like his ex-wife did, exactly. So you both were being denied the normal support/love/respect that you would get in a healthy relationship. Now, I'm still trying to think about why he told you that. There is a reason he did, I'm not sure exactly what it is. I'm sure it has something to do with trying to portray her as damaged or 'needy'.

[seekingtheway]

Yes... that's why he said it I imagine. He had a big story about her being someone who was so fragile that she couldn't be in a relationship with anyone, that she was a complicated woman with all these mental health issues, and he just wanted to love her back to health... agreed to caring for her, not really knowing what that would involve. He didn't let onto the fact that he might have added to any of her stress, he just said that she was someone who had a very thin skin and couldn't handle life. At times he even said she was a narcissist.

But I weirdly got inside info from some of her friends that she went to a really dark place when she was with him, but she's doing great now she's not... that he was like a child and didn't contribute to anything, and they even said he turned into 'a monster' right after they married... she had a full breakdown at the end and then she left him.

I guess I believed his story because I wanted to... but it's clear she and I had a similar experience, except I didn't marry him or have a child with him. And it's also become clear to me that he's since labelled me in the same way as her - because of the reaction of anxiety and upset I had to the insane push/pull at the very end.

Sorry Tina - hijacked this thread... I'll have to post about some of this stuff separately...

[jaded7]

I get stuck on the fact that as I learn more about BPD, the more I feel like I could have shown up for him better. I don`t think I understood, nor do I currently fully understand, the extent of his limitations. I think that on one hand it was beneficial; I reassured him, I acted in ways that didn`t make him feel like anything was wrong. I am like this with people in general.

I think flipping the focus onto what I need from a partner is an approach that many counselors have had with me in the past. Maybe I need more therapy to be able to express that I want to be with someone who is strong and healthy and capable. As it is, if I am completely honest, I want to be with someone who I love, and if that love isn`t totally reciprocated then I`m okay with that
 

Tina, back to you here!

These two things you wrote resonated with me.

-that you feel you could have shown up for him better
-thinking about what you need from a relationship

In my opinion, these are two things that will eventually happen to us in these relationships. Because they tend to have needs, often unexpressed, or expressed and you try to fulfill them..but we 'fail' at meeting those needs, time and time again. Not actually failing, but in their eyes failing. Because they often expect some mind reading due to a a fear of vulnerability, which means they are afraid to express their needs (for fear of 'rejection' or perceived abandonment). This equals you can't 'win'. You can think that your'e doing what they need, but you will be wrong because they have a greater need for you to be wrong. Or , when they don't express the 'need' and expect you to mind read, you will then 'fail' them. All of this results in US feeling like we didn't show up for them. But in reality, adults express their needs clearly and don't expect mind reading, and will actively allow their partners to show up for them.

In my case, the last few words my ex said to me were "I need someone who shows up for me". When I did everything possible to be there for her, and would have done anything she asked or needed. And "I need someone who doesn't melt under pressure", because I would express frustration and confusion at her behavior, or hurt at her words and actions. In our last time together she snapped at me cruelly in front of her family, and I raised my eyebrows in surprise she would do that in front of her Mom, Dad, sister and niece- that became "you melted in to the floor at the show".

Set up, then pull the ball away. (Lucy and Charlie Brown).

The second is that we tend to put the other person's needs ahead of our own, because maybe we feel like we will get the love we want if we prioritize that person's needs. I know for a fact that was part of my struggles.

Combine those two, and we end up very confused, very much in a 'down' position since we are told we are constantly failing them, even though we love them and are trying to do our best.

I think it's the nature of these relationships, and that in turn puts people like us in a difficult position. We try and try, but can't seem to get it right. At the same time, our own needs are not acknowledged or perhaps are and mocked. Which tends to create confusion and a 'striving' feeling trying to make them realize that we love them and want to be there for them.

Does this make any sense to you in your situation? Apologies for hijacking your thread.....how are you today?

[tina7868]

Does this make any sense to you in your situation? Apologies for hijacking your thread.....how are you today?

No need for apologies my friend! On the contrary, I greatly value these exchanges and am immensely grateful for this space where we can all share  .

It does make sense in my situation. Today, I feel happy . I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I understand that this feeling may not last forever, but I am working towards having the tools to navigate whatever situations life throws at me.

I hear what you're saying about being glad you were there for him - I guess that's the selfless part of love, where you're truly just giving it without anything expected in return. But from what you were saying, being there for him was hurting you... which of course it would. So I'd say in response to your question about contacting him - are you ready for the fact that if you open the door to checking on him, you might be hurting your own heart in the process? And also potentially confusing the boundary you've tried to set with him in terms of not being the one to be there for him?


I don't get this stuff right at all, and it's so much easier to look from the outside at someone else's situation, but I hope that what you choose to do protects and takes care of your own heart first and foremost... whilst still leaving that beautiful care and compassion for others in there too, which I have no doubt you'll always do anyway.

Ah, boundaries. You and me both `don`t get this stuff right`  . Here is my thinking right now:
- I pondered how I am as a person. I am very soft, sensitive, and appeasing. I like to dote on people, and during conflict I want to bridge the divide by going towards the other person. For a long time, I wanted to be different; I wanted to be strong and be able to put people in their place. While I can certainly work on becoming more assertive, I love myself as I am. He certainly does have a valid point in saying that someone who is more like my second description may be what he needs in a partner. I don`t think I can provide that, and it`s okay;
- I also realized that a lot of what I was categorizing as romantic feelings for him would better be considerd unresolved feelings. The time we truly seperated (which I consider to be when he started his latest relationship) was honestly pretty traumatizing for me. I have since forgiven him for the things he said, for my own sake (I don`t even think he remembers), but when I view those emotions as being a tether in my brain to the past, I realize that I wouldn`t want to be with him now, either;
- Of course, there is some hesitancy in these realizations. Their timing is a little opportunistic in the sense that if having romantic feelings for him was what was getting in the way of talking to him, well now I have this reasoning that allows for me to bypass that and be there for him;
- So, back to boundaries. I think that if I maintain my role as support, and not friend with him, I am okay. That`s an important distinction. Again, it`s not super clear, as after I told him I can be his support he said that he doesn`t feel comfortable. Then he said that he will sit with it. Then he sent me an article about BPD, and we`ve been exchanging a couple of thoughts. It`s honestly pretty similar to an exchange we`d have here on the forum. My T said it is important for me to ponder what boundaries would serve me, what obstacles might come up (even if it`s something like I`d feel distressed and anxious). Time will tell, and I`m paying attention to how I feel. I feel supported by her, and by this community.

[tina7868]

I had a (sort of) productive conversation with him about intentions, expectations, and needs.

I said that my intention was to support him, and that I don`t have romantic feelings for him. I asked him what made him reach out to me, and he said that he didn`t have to worry about what his girlfriend thought anymore and he knows that I am supportive of him. He said he understood if it was confusing to me because he reached out to me in his time of need. I also expressed that it makes me sad when he blocks me, and that I will need to implement boundaries on my end for how much I can be there for him (but that I will communicate them). I asked him what does he see me as in his life, and he said he`d have to think about it.

I realize this may be an ongoing conversation, but for now I am happy. I can focus on my own goals and friendships and hobbies. When speaking to him, there are so many aspects of what he says that remind me of my own unhealthy ways of thinking from the past. Even how he hopes he can rekindle his relationship, I can relate to that, and see from an outside perspective how that can even be a good motivator at times to make healthy changes. I feel like a cheerleader of sorts.

[tina7868]

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

I`ve read this article many times. I almost feel like I should read it every day! I think that the relationship skills and self-awareness that I can gain from this will be valuable for me to bring to the table in all my future relationships 

I asked him how he was feeling today, we spoke briefly about his new medication. His answers were on the dry and short end. My instinct was to feel like I had done something wrong; he had been so interactive and willing to share just a few days ago! Initially, I wanted to keep pushing for more contact and communication. Instead, I asked him `your answers seem short! is this one of those days where you`d like more space?`. He said yes, and I replied `thanks for being honest, I`ll let you reach out when you feel ready.`.

This made me feel better for a few reasons. I got to the bottom of what I was feeling faster, and I feel like I created my own peace of mind in allowing him to reach out instead of wondering when I should do it.

[jaded7]

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

I`ve read this article many times. I almost feel like I should read it every day! I think that the relationship skills and self-awareness that I can gain from this will be valuable for me to bring to the table in all my future relationships 

I asked him how he was feeling today, we spoke briefly about his new medication. His answers were on the dry and short end. My instinct was to feel like I had done something wrong; he had been so interactive and willing to share just a few days ago! Initially, I wanted to keep pushing for more contact and communication. Instead, I asked him `your answers seem short! is this one of those days where you`d like more space?`. He said yes, and I replied `thanks for being honest, I`ll let you reach out when you feel ready.`.

This made me feel better for a few reasons. I got to the bottom of what I was feeling faster, and I feel like I created my own peace of mind in allowing him to reach out instead of wondering when I should do it.

Very impressive Tina!

I will admit to feeling mad at him for reaching out to you when he 'needed' you, even while he was with the other person, but especially now that the other person is gone. I would hate for you to get hurt again, but it seems like you are doing very well with you emotions.

[tina7868]

I will admit to feeling mad at him for reaching out to you when he 'needed' you, even while he was with the other person, but especially now that the other person is gone. I would hate for you to get hurt again, but it seems like you are doing very well with you emotions.

Thanks for your reply, jaded! I think that I would feel the same way if a friend was in my position. As I mentioned, I am working with a therapist now, and hopefully over time this will help with my perspective which I am aware often doesn`t put me in a secure position.

I am grateful for this community. Things with my ex are up and down. That is the baseline. For example, he started the day by saying we can`t be friends, later explaining it`s because he doesn`t want to become dependent on me, and finally called to apologize and thank me for being there. I recognize that I didn`t react as I once would, and I`m happy with that. I recognize that the anxiety that I felt in the past when he`d make this sort of announcement isn`t out of love or fear of missing him entirely; I get anxious because of the unknown of when if how he will contact me again. I think that`s something I want to work on; being okay if he did leave for good. Things have definitely shifted on my end, towards what exactly I`m not sure. I remember when I started posting on this forum, I hoped that after a few months everything would `smooth over`, and an indication of doing better would be that I didn`t post as much. What I`m finding instead is that I post here regardless. The relationship will not reach a perfectly pleasant state where I don`t to some extent benefit from a support group. The ups and downs come with the territory of these interactions.

[seekingtheway]

That's a solid truth isn't it? That interactions with your ex or anyone with BPD is always going to be extremely up and down, and it will take a lot of support and insight into yourself so that you've got a chance of making sense of it, or to be able to withstand it. Because instability creates instability.

You mentioned that it's the 'not knowing what comes next' that causes the anxiety for you. I really identify with this statement. I feel exactly the same about my ex, and I actually said that to him in our last interaction... because I felt so so anxious that day, and it was a rare day when he was receptive to that and cared about it... and I told him it was it was so hard when he reappears and then disappear the next minute... because it left me with this anxious feeling of never knowing what was coming next. It's not secure, it's not stable, it's not predictable... so then what happens is we start coming in with anxious reactions and behaviours to try and create that stability and security, to figure out what's happening and state our position so it feels clear from our side at least. And they react to that by pushing away...

The thing is, in the dynamic of push and pull... they are more likely to come back and want more interaction when you push away completely. But there's no healthy resolution to this toxic dance. It's just a dance of fear and anxiety on either end... until one person takes control over the anxiety and makes a decision based on what is truly best for them. And that's what you're trying to do now...  it's so great that you're seeing a difference in your reactions based on where you were and where you are now.

[tina7868]

That's a solid truth isn't it? That interactions with your ex or anyone with BPD is always going to be extremely up and down, and it will take a lot of support and insight into yourself so that you've got a chance of making sense of it, or to be able to withstand it. Because instability creates instability.

You mentioned that it's the 'not knowing what comes next' that causes the anxiety for you. I really identify with this statement. I feel exactly the same about my ex, and I actually said that to him in our last interaction... because I felt so so anxious that day, and it was a rare day when he was receptive to that and cared about it... and I told him it was it was so hard when he reappears and then disappear the next minute... because it left me with this anxious feeling of never knowing what was coming next. It's not secure, it's not stable, it's not predictable... so then what happens is we start coming in with anxious reactions and behaviours to try and create that stability and security, to figure out what's happening and state our position so it feels clear from our side at least. And they react to that by pushing away...

The thing is, in the dynamic of push and pull... they are more likely to come back and want more interaction when you push away completely. But there's no healthy resolution to this toxic dance. It's just a dance of fear and anxiety on either end... until one person takes control over the anxiety and makes a decision based on what is truly best for them. And that's what you're trying to do now...  it's so great that you're seeing a difference in your reactions based on where you were and where you are now.

Thank you for your reply, seekingtheway . I can relate to the way you describe the anxiety. I recognize that it is this feeling that is at the core of my attachment, and what I most need help with. It`s easy when it is less prevalent to feel like I am `better`, but it inevitably comes back (sometimes in a matter of hours). Posting here, going to therapy and being overall busy with life have been game changers over the past few weeks. During my last session, we (well mostly my therapist) described my own cycle of `trigger-anxiety-compulsion` that I now realize is activated after almost every interaction with him. I remember when I was talking to him a few months ago, I was struggling with `picking up` the conversation when it had come to a natural end. I kept trying to keep it going. This was anxiety. It`s in the `in-between` moments that my pattern is activated, and I worry that I won`t hear from him, that it`s our last interaction, etc. My goal is to sit with this feeling for longer and longer periods, instead of acting from that place. This is where mindful activities, exercise, etc. come into play. I`ve been letting the conversation petter off, and haven`t been asking him how he is doing as often. I told myself that if I don`t hear from him after 3 days, I can reach out. I know it doesn`t sound like a lot, but it`s a start. As a result, I do feel like the relationship is a lot `lighter`, and so far, he`s reached out before the 3 day period that I set for myself.

Another goal is to weed out how exactly I view this relationship. There are certainly many good aspects to it; it makes me happy to help him when I can. I remind myself regularly that he is going to feel better and meet someone new inevitably, and probably distance himself, and that`s okay. I am writing about how our interactions make me feel. His (now ex) girlfriend came to drop off his stuff yesterday. I felt a peak of anxiety when he told me this, unclear as to why. I asked him how he felt, told him he is capable of handling the interaction with grace and strength, and told him that he could reach out to me if he needed support. We spoke for a bit, the conversation pettered off, and I didn`t check in later to ask how it went. This was very difficult for me!