Stepdad gave me a present

[kells76]

Last update here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357905.0

I've worked a little bit in therapy on differentiating between real crises/real red flags, and me artificially elevating a generally normal occurrence to feel like a real crisis. The best description I can come up with is that a real crisis is something that actually shows up on my "BPD radar" -- it's a real signal -- whereas when I artificially raise the intensity level of a normal situation up to a crisis situation, that's me layering my "filter" over it. I talk a bit about that idea here if that helps.

Anyway, the idea is that sometimes, based on real experiences and Mom and Stepdad's historical choices and actions, I do have a pretty good sense of what "normal looking" things are actually weird and might point to a conflict coming up. However, because I've been operating so far above emotional baseline for so long, I do have a knee-jerk reflex to put a "BPD filter" on normal events, "just in case", so that I can be prepared if it turns into A Thing.

It is not good for my nervous system to operate at a 10/10 vigilance 24/7, so my T has suggested that I work on differentiating between real signals and ones that I put my filter over.

...

I got an opportunity to practice that on Sunday.

Brief background; we are not a "Hallmark holidays together for the kids" two-family setup. Occasionally (back when the kids had a counselor working with them and all the four adults) we adults might give each other a birthday gift, a Christmas gift or card, or (only once) Mom texted me to wish me Happy Mothers Day. This stuff was generally always from one pair of adults (i.e., me plus H, or Mom plus Stepdad), not from one individual adult to one other, and on "socially recognized occasions". But I could probably count on one hand how often this happened. There is not like a strong regular record of "every year kells76 & H give Mom a birthday card, and every year Mom and Stepdad give H a Christmas present".

Stepdad was picking up the kids from our place, and pretty much the first thing he did when we opened the door was to tell me that he had something for me. He gave me some stickers he got from his workplace that were sort of related to my occupation, saying he'd already given SD18 a ton of them (both kids really like stickers for their water bottles). I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was pretty polite and noncommittal, like, "wow, thanks, cool".  What H told me later is that he'd happened to be looking at SD18 when Stepdad gave me the stickers, and she rolled her eyes.

I am working on understanding if my radar (accurate perception of PD weirdness) or filter (elevating a "generally normal" occurrence to A Thing) is at work here; or, maybe it's both.

On the "radar" side, Stepdad has a history of actively pursuing unavailable women going back nearly 20 years -- that's not debatable. There has never been gift-giving between the adults beyond socially acceptable occasions, and those were infrequent. And now that he has been with his girlfriend "officially" and publicly for a while, part of me wonders if he wants to pursue someone again.

On the "filter" side, it's stickers, not flowers or wine or jewelry or something big or expensive. He may have given me those for some odd reason having very little to do with me. I don't feel unsafe or outmatched -- I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, as my mom would say -- and me spending time and energy thinking about this interaction is probably much more than it merits.

If I were to put together where I am now, maybe it's 25% "radar" (yeah, it is actually weird, and there's some history giving it context beyond a "normal boring event") and 75% "filter" (spending more mental energy "figuring it out" and "forecasting what it means" than it deserves)?

I am also sorting out if it would help SD18 if I mentioned it to her. I'm wondering if it might be beneficial for her to know that yeah, I see this stuff going on, and she doesn't have to worry about if I'm OK or if I get the dynamics or if I'm taken in by it. Maybe dropping the comment out there: "That was kind of odd when Stepdad gave me the stickers" and see if she does anything with that.

I'm trying to walk the tightrope of not badmouthing Mom or Stepdad, yet at the same time, I don't want to invalidate by essentially responding to her, whenever she bring up something she struggles with about them, "Well, I'm not going to talk about that with you".

She has been receptive to problem-solving approaches where if there is an issue at Mom's house, I provide a solution for her to do, without talking about whose job it should have been to solve it (i.e., there was/is a really bad flea problem, so I bought SD18 a bottle of flea spray and told her that she and SD16 needed to read the instructions and make sure their cat and little brother followed them), but I don't really go into "so what's Mom doing where she's too busy to do that for you?" In those, the focus isn't on "who should have done what, who is bad and who is good", but bypasses that to "here is the issue, I can help you with a solution". This doesn't feel like a "problem solving" conversation.

Anyway -- working on radar vs filter, and wondering if this is a situation where telling SD18 "that was a weird interaction, I definitely have thoughts about it" would be validating her experience or pushing mine on her.

[Notwendy]

Being that it's stickers, and he's got strange boundaries- I'd just let it go. It may be that he was cleaning his office and thought maybe you'd want them.

I think you are correct that he's the one to be wary of, not the stickers. As long as it's stickers, I'd not be too concerned. If it continued or the type of gift was not appropriate, that would be off bounds.  Not sure what to make of this other than, he's got odd boundaries anyway.

[kells76]

Thanks Notwendy, that's helpful to get another set of eyes on things.

I can frame it to myself as -- yes, it's odd, and if nothing else happens, then it was just a weird thing that happened. If something else does happen, I will be prepared for it at that future time; I don't need to do or plan for anything else right now.

[ForeverDad]

With SD18 rolling her eyes, during a relaxed - informal - moment you could say you noticed and ask if there was anything substantial you ought to know.

Yeah, I'm an in between kind of guy, sort of stick your toes in to test the water but not jump in.

[ThanksForPlaying]

On my first reading, without knowing the background you provided, I assumed the eyeroll meant "he's giving these stickers to everyone this week - it's sooo annoying."  You may have more experience on the subtleties of what that exact eyeroll means though.  It's not a purchased gift that he shopped for - more like just giving away advertising.  However, with the background, something to keep an eye on.

[livednlearned]

From past stories about him, he seems like a guy who works in the shadows and likes to keep drama triangles going. My thought is that he may get something out of tweaking SD18's mom at the moment, and this was a way to mess with her. So not exactly pursuing you, more like publicly being nice to you in order to antagonize mom.

Maybe the new GF situation has caused mom to really bottom out. If she is no longer really giving his new relationship the kind of third-person drama he's seeking, perhaps he's looking for a new way to get something going, even if it's just theater, and you represent a way to rile her up?

I don't think gifts mean nothing when there are PDs involved. When the kids spent Christmas with us, the only year we had all of them, BPD mom and her affair partner (now husband) sent us gifts. H is really health conscious, something BPD mom knows, yet she sent a ton of holiday-themed junk food to me and H.

It felt pretty obvious. She wanted everyone to believe she's generous, she wanted to stick it to H, and she wanted all of us to be thinking about her. This was the year she was secretly co-habitating with her affair partner, which would've nullified spousal support, so it felt doubly twisted. BPD mom's affair partner was living rent free at her condo that H was paying for, and they're sending us gifts?

For your situation, I would probably not say anything to SD18 unless she brought it up. Especially if she is at all enmeshed with mom and likely to share that conversation.

[Notwendy]

My thought is that he may get something out of tweaking SD18's mom at the moment, and this was a way to mess with her.

I don't think gifts mean nothing when there are PDs involved.

Very good points. My BPD mother sometimes doesn't give gifts that correlate with the relationship. She will give the same impersonal gift to family or someone she doesn't know well or something more expensive to someone not related to her.

Trying to figure out what her reasons are may not be possible. But I agree- there might be a reason but we don't know what that is.

I think that is what raised your question. If it had been a male co-worker- who said "hey someone sent these stickers to me and I don't need them- would you like them? I don't think you'd be wondering. It's that it's someone who you know has different "ideas" about marriage that makes you wonder.

Still, it's just stickers... stickers don't cross a boundary- but maybe that is the intent- to test the waters? I don't think it's possible to know at this time. Maybe it's just stickers, maybe not. You have your own boundaries- and so if someone offered you a gift you didn't feel comfortable accepting, you won't- no matter who that person is.

[kells76]

 @FD:

With SD18 rolling her eyes, during a relaxed - informal - moment you could say you noticed and ask if there was anything substantial you ought to know.

Yeah, I'm an in between kind of guy, sort of stick your toes in to test the water but not jump in.

That's probably a good approach -- I could open the door on my end and then it's up to her if she wants to walk through.

@ThanksForPlaying:

On my first reading, without knowing the background you provided, I assumed the eyeroll meant "he's giving these stickers to everyone this week - it's sooo annoying."  You may have more experience on the subtleties of what that exact eyeroll means though.  It's not a purchased gift that he shopped for - more like just giving away advertising.  However, with the background, something to keep an eye on.

Yeah, there's definitely some background. For many years, both kids idolized Stepdad -- he "saved the family" (the "real family" of Mom, Stepdad, and the kids  ), he was writing a book and was having SD18 do the illustrations, both kids called him by a dad title and not by his name and would do that in front of me and H, he was the best at relationships... on and on.

I don't think I ever expected that to change. It was just going to be how things were -- the kids thinking Stepdad was beyond perfection, and going on about that in front of H. That was going to be our pain to manage.

The fact that SD18 would roll her eyes about something Stepdad did, is a new development. In the past, any hint from me or H of "huh... that was weird" or "I wonder why he'd give me something" would probably be met with an excited explanation of how cool or sophisticated or "elevated" it was. That she is now skeptical of even a low-intensity move on his part is... pretty different.

[kells76]

@livednlearned:

From past stories about him, he seems like a guy who works in the shadows and likes to keep drama triangles going. My thought is that he may get something out of tweaking SD18's mom at the moment, and this was a way to mess with her. So not exactly pursuing you, more like publicly being nice to you in order to antagonize mom.

She wasn't there at that exchange -- it was just me, H, and him at the door. SD16 was in another room getting her stuff, and SD18 happened to be there.

So who knows if he reported back to Mom "I gave kells76 those stickers", or if SD18 told Mom (though she is frustrated with Mom right now, too, and is not really defensive of her any more), or if it was all a spur of the moment deal. Maybe that's what it boils down to: if a PD is involved, then getting emotional needs met in any moment with any means available is the top priority. If he had been needing to feel magnanimous, like a "desired player" again, and by coincidence I was at the door, then yeah, maybe he randomly had the stickers on him and saw an opportunity to feel "above" again.

Maybe the new GF situation has caused mom to really bottom out. If she is no longer really giving his new relationship the kind of third-person drama he's seeking, perhaps he's looking for a new way to get something going, even if it's just theater, and you represent a way to rile her up?

That could make sense. When it was Stepdad + Girlfriend, then Mom was the 3rd party in that triangle -- that lasted a few years. Now that Mom seems to have a girlfriend of her own (I think? -- it's whoever she brought to SD16's school play, so who knows), Mom is no longer the 3rd leg supporting Stepdad's triangle. The dyad of Stepdad + Girlfriend is now unstable, so yeah, it could be that Stepdad is (un)consciously seeking a stabilizing leg for his relationship, now that Mom isn't participating?

I don't think gifts mean nothing when there are PDs involved. When the kids spent Christmas with us, the only year we had all of them, BPD mom and her affair partner (now husband) sent us gifts. H is really health conscious, something BPD mom knows, yet she sent a ton of holiday-themed junk food to me and H.

It felt pretty obvious. She wanted everyone to believe she's generous, she wanted to stick it to H, and she wanted all of us to be thinking about her. This was the year she was secretly co-habitating with her affair partner, which would've nullified spousal support, so it felt doubly twisted. BPD mom's affair partner was living rent free at her condo that H was paying for, and they're sending us gifts?

I think that's at the core of "is this my radar, or me imposing a filter" question. If I believe that Mom has many BPD traits and Stepdad has many NPD traits, then interactions with them generally aren't "what you see is what you get". I'm playing some role for them whether I agree to it or not. Gift giving exchanges inherently have some set roles/levels, I think.

For your situation, I would probably not say anything to SD18 unless she brought it up. Especially if she is at all enmeshed with mom and likely to share that conversation.

That's what's also changing; she is much, much, much less enmeshed than she used to be.

Maybe this goes back to what ForeverDad was suggesting; testing the waters vs a head on approach.

H and I know SD18 is starting to initiate discussions of how things are at Mom's house. Maybe I  don't need to push this topic -- if or when she feels ready or thinks it's relevant, she will.

And maybe it also goes back to what you mentioned: your stepkids' mom sent them those gifts to get you all to pay attention to her. If I'm bringing up Stepdad ("he did this, he did that, how weird that he said XYZ") to SD18... then he's getting attention and he's in the middle of our relationship. I don't have to do that to her.

[kells76]

@Notwendy:

Trying to figure out what her reasons are may not be possible. But I agree- there might be a reason but we don't know what that is.

That's helpful again for distilling down my approach. Yes, it was weird he gave me that gift. Yes, he had some reason to do so. No, I don't know what it was. And, no matter what, I don't have to figure it all out right now. I can trust that if I need this information in the future, I will be able to handle that situation as it comes. I cannot plan for "what this all means" right now.

I think that is what raised your question. If it had been a male co-worker- who said "hey someone sent these stickers to me and I don't need them- would you like them? I don't think you'd be wondering. It's that it's someone who you know has different "ideas" about marriage that makes you wonder.

Good point that I don't have an issue with the action or the specific gift, it's who was doing it that was concerning.

Still, it's just stickers... stickers don't cross a boundary- but maybe that is the intent- to test the waters? I don't think it's possible to know at this time. Maybe it's just stickers, maybe not. You have your own boundaries- and so if someone offered you a gift you didn't feel comfortable accepting, you won't- no matter who that person is.

That might be part of what feels kind of gross about the situation -- that it's "just stickers" -- so it was difficult for me in the moment to say Nope, I don't want them! I got roped into playing the part of a recipient in his exchange, and I don't want to play any role in his narrative about himself. The item didn't cross a boundary so it was difficult to identify that the dynamic could be an issue.

Again, though, I can know that I don't have to go in circles about this now. It may never happen again. If it does, I'll know that I can give myself permission to "be rude" and refuse gifts from him.

[ForeverDad]

Things may be changing over in the other household.  Biomom opened the door when you delivered something for SD16.

And SD18 just crossed a boundary into adulthood.  She has aged out of the system.  She may be adjusting her prior stance patterns with this new perspective.  If I recall, you mentioned it is her younger sibling who still feels an obligation to side with the other marriage.

Within a couple years both kids will be out of the system and court orders, though a possible exception may be college support.  The dynamic may shift more over the next couple years.

[PeteWitsend]

@kells76 given his history, I think the sudden gift giving is notable.  But given the nature of the gift, could be nothing.

So... I think when dealing with emotionally unstable / manipulative people it's ALWAYS good to keep your antenna up, don't spend too much time on it if it turns out to be an isolated incident. 

That said, I would think about what you'd do if he takes it a step farther next time, and gives a more expensive gift.  He sounds like kind of a creep. 


You could also mention it to SD like "that was kinda weird of him to give me that, right?" and judge her reaction.  Maybe she has more to add, maybe not.

[livednlearned]

Or leave the stickers out to see if SD18 brings it up?

Or ask if she wants them for her water bottle (if that makes sense)?

You know best how SD18 handles stuff but it sounds like she's kind of in the driver's seat when it comes to divulging her thoughts and feelings about the other household.

The eye roll was opening the door a bit but she didn't say more even though she could've.

If you felt like testing the waters, I would tease out for yourself what your intention is so it's at least clear to you, in the hopes it will feel clear to SD18. Sometimes with SD29, I say something just to let her know I'm tracking a situation. Kind of like, "I see this too." But we don't get into a deep discussion. It's more like a look across the room so she knows she isn't alone.

Other times my intention is to have a conversation that's driven by my values. Like when SD26's suicidal ideation was peaking and I thought the secretive behaviors were unsafe, and unfair (for SD29 in particular).

There was a weird time when SD29 lived with us and her cousin (H's niece) was getting married about 30 min from where BPD mom lived. SD29's cousin didn't invite BPD mom. This was obviously difficult for BPD mom who insisted on driving 6 hours down and 6 hours back to pick up SD29 for "mommy time" prior to the wedding. Then BPD mom insisted SD29 stay at her place instead of in the hotel with the rest of the wedding guests (including us and her other cousins).

All three of H's kids had to stay with BPD mom, and she insisted on driving them to the wedding -- getting them there late -- and then picking them up early. When they arrived, they looked traumatized and miserable. BPD mom sat in her car in the parking lot for 30 minutes. It was beyond strange.

SD26, who went through a trans male phase a few years earlier, was dressed like a Disney princess in shoes I've only ever seen a drag queen wear. She could barely walk in them. BPD mom helped pick out her outfit and shoes for the wedding.  . That's not relevant to the story but it's a detail I still think about. I'm surprised BPD mom didn't insist on a tiara.

The next day after the wedding, even though H and I were driving home to the same house where SD29 was living, BPD mom insisted on driving her.

When SD29 got home, we went to greet her and it was really clear she was traumatized. I tugged H's shirt to kind of say, She needs a minute. SD29 gave a pained smile and went upstairs and when she came down later for dinner, she seemed fragile. Jokingly I asked her if she wanted a glass of wine or the whole bottle, and by bottle, I meant the entire case. She laughed a bit and all she said was, "I feel seen."

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we can communicate a lot with these kids without saying much.

It's unfair that you have to live with a dialed up nervous system, but it's probably how the kids feel too. You may not be able to do or say as much as you like, but you can at least let them know you're seeing the same things. Raising your eyebrows, so to speak.

[Turkish]

Odd, but it sounds like he respects you on some level, despite his behavior in his life being unrespectable. SD18 rolling her eyes is notable, but she owns her emotions. I wouldn't even bring it up with her.

[EyesUp]

Last update here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357905.0
working on radar vs filter, and wondering if this is a situation where telling SD18 "that was a weird interaction, I definitely have thoughts about it" would be validating her experience or pushing mine on her.

@Kells,

Reading through your post, plus the responses you've received so far, this feels like:
a) Your radar is really strong, and you're right to consider what's signal and what's noise.
b) The eyeroll was not for you, it was an unguarded/reflexive teenager response that could mean
- "the stickers - again"
- "he'll push those stickers on anyone"
- "ygtbfkm"
- etc

Whatever the eyeroll was intended to convey, it probably could have occurred in the dark - it didn't need an audience, and likely wasn't intended for you - it was more like a physical manifestation of her internal dialog.

These two observations more or less align with your other observation that sticker guy has boundary issues / seeks attention / etc.  

So the eyeroll may be a teenager's way of reacting (acknowledging/judging) to this seemingly benign yet potentially unprecedented or unnecessary or self serving, or maybe even inappropriate gesture.

How to react?  Your simple acknowledgment was probably perfect.  You didn't reject him, and you didn't encourage him.  You allowed him to do whatever it was that he was trying to do without adding extra energy to it.

What's next?  File it away.  My $0.02, I wouldn't do anything else with this.  Don't give it any more energy.  

Raising it with SD will probably earn you an eyeroll, for a different reason.

We do tend to get hyper-vigilant in these relationships, trying to decipher everything, on guard for, well, anything.  I'm reminded of a comment from a professor in college who happened to be a well-regarded playwright:  "If you see a squid on the side of the road, you let it pass.  But if you see a pile of squid, it's hard to ignore."  

In this case, both the stickers and the eyeroll were just one squid.  We may be far inland, but we're still going to let it pass because who really cares about just one squid?  

[kells76]

Thanks all for listening to me. I must have really needed to recalibrate my "reality baseline" after even that short interaction with him. Yikes.

I think what I am walking away with is:

*knowing that he has not said or done anything in the last ~10 years leading up to that interaction, that would lead me to believe that he is a trustworthy person

*knowing that I don't have to "touch base" with SD18 about it; it might inadvertently send the message that "I, an adult, need you, a child, to help me process"; or, it could inadvertently send the message that "Stepdad gets to be what we talk about when we connect -- our relationship can't be just you and me"

*managing and tolerating my own anxiety (framed as "the kids will feel so alone if I don't bring this up") instead of relieving it through my interactions with them

*deciding that I do not have to remain hypervigilant about this, and deciding to trust that if this information is helpful in the future, I will know it at that time and can cope at that future time

...

Stepdad and his girlfriend did pick up the kids the other night; I didn't engage at the door. Oh, and I gave the stickers away to coworkers last week.

[Turkish]

I regifted the self help improvement book that my ex gave to me for Christmas about 7 years ago. It was bound to look like a Bible. Very important! I'm sorry that you only got stickers.

[EyesUp]

Kells - I like where your head is at.