This is psychopathy

[Tangled mangled]

At this stage of my divorce, I don’t care what the literature says, pwBPD are psychopaths.

My stbxh I have always thought he had more than BPD, maybe comorbid NPD.

He’s announced to me that our matrimonial home is being repossessed, although no documentation from the bank.
If you read my story in the past , I left my home a year ago after living in thesame home with my ex for 10 months following DV.
My name is not on the mortgage ( thank God) but my ex has done all he can to accrue mortgage arrears to reduce my share in the equity.
We reached a financial settlement where I get 50% of the equity, but he pays the arrears from his share. We are awaiting a sale with a buyer lined up for months now.
Nearing the end now and he’s making the situation worse.
I’ve read on the internet that if a property is repossessed by the lender then after a sale for a less than market value price, the proceeds go straight to the person named on the mortgage and my matrimonial home rights notice means nothing to the bank.
So my gut instincts have been confirmed that my ex is a psychopath who will seek new lows to sink to.
I see him disappearing to his country of origin to avoid the courts here.
I’m working hard to make all the solicitors aware and hopefully to make the lender aware of what’s going but this is the handwork of psychopath.
Call this illness what you want, pwbpd are psychopaths.

[PeteWitsend]

There's another PD called Anti-social Personality Disorder, I learned about.  Some of the characteristics seem to fit BPDxw well, like more intentional and malicious manipulating of facts and situations.

I recall times when she'd "arrange" a big fight between someone (typically one of my family members) and then seemed to snicker when it went according to her plans.

Once, after a big fight in which she mentioned state divorce law and the fact that it bound me to live in our relocated state for the foreseeable future if I wanted to be part of our daughter's life after divorce - where I had no friends and family.  she said something like "I got you." 

that to me implied an actual intent... this was not just someone emotionally dys- regulating and making a mess of her life, she knew what she was doing.

I don't know what divorce laws are where you are, but here there are typically some that prevent a party from intentionally squandering assets or wasting them & harming the other party's share.  Then again... courts here let bad faith actors get away with all sorts of crap, so there's only so much you can get, even with the law on your side.

[Tangled mangled]

There's another PD called Anti-social Personality Disorder, I learned about.  Some of the characteristics seem to fit BPDxw well, like more intentional and malicious manipulating of facts and situations.

I recall times when she'd "arrange" a big fight between someone (typically one of my family members) and then seemed to snicker when it went according to her plans.

Once, after a big fight in which she mentioned state divorce law and the fact that it bound me to live in our relocated state for the foreseeable future if I wanted to be part of our daughter's life after divorce - where I had no friends and family.  she said something like "I got you." 

that to me implied an actual intent... this was not just someone emotionally dys- regulating and making a mess of her life, she knew what she was doing.

I don't know what divorce laws are where you are, but here there are typically some that prevent a party from intentionally squandering assets or wasting them & harming the other party's share.  Then again... courts here let bad faith actors get away with all sorts of crap, so there's only so much you can get, even with the law on your side.

What you described about your Bpdxw is sick and twisted. Intentionality and their callousness is what makes them fit the criteria of psychopathy. I thought by now I’d used to nastiness and accept it as part of an illness but I’m surprised by how sick it still makes me feel. I read the case of someone else where her name was on the mortgage and the x disappeared leaving the property empty and she’s been chased by the bank as the property is actually in negative equity.

I’m thankful that in my case my guardian angels who ever they are saw years ahead and situation got so bad at one point I had to take my name out of the mortgage. I would have been f£££led for life with repossession record on my credit score. At least right now, the worse that can happen is I have to start from scratch saving up for a deposit for a home if he succeeds in disappearing with what’s left in equity.

I will get my lawyers to consider putting in steps to prevent him access to funds. Looks like he’s gone burnt earth on me. It’s horrendous

[yellowbutterfly]

I've always felt that my xH uBPD was a sick individual and knew what he was doing with the manipulation, lies, DV, and emotional/psychological/physical abuse. Completely agree and emphasize with you Tangled.

Mine should be in prison - I have zero respect or empathy of any kind for him.

[Elvis42]

  If you got the chance to read my story believe me I know exactly what you are talking about and how you feel.
Unfortunately there are some straight up evil people in this world who don't give a damn who they hurt or the damage they leave in their wake, just as long as they WIN!!!! and that's exactly how they see it. they have that "Win or Lose" attitude and they are going to teach you a lesson, because you don't mess with them. You basically do what they want, when they want it or you will pay BIG TIME.

Just my 2 cents worth

Hope things get better

[ForeverDad]

As with other Personality Disorders, this Borderline PD, whether diagnosed or recognized by the evident traits experienced, exists on a spectrum or range of severity of the behaviors.  It is more extreme and severe for many, though for others it may not be quite so difficult to deal with.

This is not to discount the distressing experiences and observations here, but we should not apply one single blanket description to all pwBPD discussed here.  We've all suffered of course, whether a little or a lot.

[Tangled mangled]

Thanks Peter, yellow, Elvis and ForeverD,

I found this article here very interesting. It describes my own mother to the T. Yet she’s a very innocent elderly lady who is termed hot tempered or dysregulated. My hi husband is the male version described here, he has no hesitation about intimidating people around him with his height and threatens violence easily.
The issue with pwbpd ,they manage to cause enough havoc in the lives of those around them but often do not meet the threshold for incarceration. They can manipulate their way out of police custody.
Those of use who have survived these relationships know that it’s our codependent traits that got us into these relationships in the first place and many of us will minimise the harm that these folks cause in order to survive. Just because the pwbpd didn’t succeed in causing serious harm to others does not make them less of psychopath.

[Tangled mangled]

Here’s the article

https://www.aru.ac.uk/news/female-psychopaths-more-common-than-we-think#:~:text=Current%20scientific%20evidence%20suggests%20that,females%20by%20around%206%3A1.

[Tangled mangled]

Or this:

https://psychopathyis.org/news/borderline-personality-disorder-and-psychopathy-whats-the-difference/


Overall, when we compare borderline personality disorder and psychopathy, there is a wildness common to both. The gestalt difference is that someone with BPD often feels out of control and victimized while the psychopath is more able to regulate his or her affect and derives a sense of power from the ability to manipulate, deceive and control others.


Do these remind you of anyone you know?


One way to assess it is with the revised Psychopathy Checklist (PCL-Revised) developed by forensic psychologist Dr. Robert D. Hare. An experienced researcher or clinician is best suited to conduct the interview and assess the condition, as gradations of symptoms are involved. Assessing each trait isn’t just a straightforward yes or no.

The descriptive traits on the PCL-Revised include:

Superficial
Grandiose
Deceitful
Lacks remorse
Lacks empathy
Doesn’t accept responsibility
Impulsive
Poor behavioral controls
Lacks goals
Irresponsible
Adult antisocial behavior
Adolescent antisocial behavior



My stbxh ticks every box listed above.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother meets these criteria too. She also has several NPD traits. One of them is lack of empathy. It is possible for the PD's to overlapp. BPD is her most predominant issue.

I also think she fits the gestalt difference. She, herself, does not have what we consider a position of power. In fact, due to her BPD, she is a very dependent person. She is very intelligent and yet, very emotionally impaired in her ability to use that intelligence in way that would allow her to be more self sufficient. She feels victimized and out of control and so gaining interpersonal control helps her to feel more empowered. I think this is the main drive for her behavior and due to lack of empathy- that is why she can cross the line into being deliberately hurtful sometimes.

By contrast, a person I know who is NPD has a professional degree, is self sufficient and is also the head of his company and is in a position of power. He doesn't have any need to get his survival or material needs met by manipulating other people. He isn't a victim or feels out of control. He's the boss and is in control. He does not have the behaviors that are consistent with BPD but fits criterial for NPD. It has been proposed that psychopathy is a far end of the NPD spectrum.

All the PD's are on a spectrum and it seems they can also be a mix.

[kells76]

Not sure if this has come up yet -- we do have a couple of discussions in the Psychology questions and answers section about the crossover between BPD and other disorders:

COMPARISON: Antisocial Personality Disorder vs BPD

and

COMPARISON: Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs BPD

hope those are helpful additions to this thread.

[Notwendy]

With my mother it's a significant mix. The difference is that she meets more criteria for BPD than the others and these are the behaviors that cause her the most difficulty. Her most distinct NPD trait is her lack of empathy so when she's feeling victimized and retaliates, she takes it too far. Someone with empathy would likely not be able to do that.

She does not cross that line to criminal behavior. There's a book I read a while ago "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout - which I think describes that this is on a spectrum too. Not all sociopaths do what we think of as criminal acts. I could see that some of these explanations also could fit in combination with her having BPD.

[ForeverDad]

There were two movies in the early 1940s titled Gaslight, one British and the other more memorable one American.  The criminal was making her doubt herself and feel insane.

Since I have a history of managing apartments decades ago in a regulated rental system, I found Pacific Heights scarier, starring Matthew Modine & Melanie Griffith as new homeowners and Michael Keaton as the diabolical tenant.

[yellowbutterfly]

FD completely agree that BPD and other personality disorders exist on a spectrum. As you know, mine was a severe case.

I’m proud to say that I overcame my fear of any person with BPD in intensive inpatient therapy and even was friendly with several women on the lesser side of that spectrum.

Good reminder not to generalize.

[Gerda]

I'm not a psychologist, but I've long suspected that the Cluster B personality disorders are actually a spectrum, and not only that, but it's like they work on a range from less "successful" to more "successful" at being a psychopath/sociopath.

Basically, someone with BPD is a wannabe failed narcissist. They hate themselves and can't stand admitting to any flaws and wish to be perfect. They can't stand it when anything reminds them that they're not perfect. They also demand perfection in everyone else and split you black when they're reminded that you're not.

Someone with NPD has done a better job of convincing themselves they're perfect. They create that false self that I bet borderlines wish they had, but they can still suffer "narcissistic injury" when they're reminded it is false, and really want everyone else to think they're perfect too and really hate it if anyone doesn't.

Someone with ASPD has finally reached the level where they really believe they're perfect, but they also don't care if anyone else agrees. Basically, they seem to be a lot more "secure" than people with BPD or NPD, who still really care about what other people think of them. Sociopaths don't care what other people think or feel at all.

Also, here's something my husband once said that creeped me out. I'm never going to forget this conversation. He called me up one time and was reflecting on what he thinks is his main problem in life. I was like "go on?" and he said his main problem in life is, "I've just never been able to get other people to do what I want." He then went on and on for like 45 minutes about how he's known some people who are really charming and able to just wrap people around their little fingers and get them to do whatever they want, and it's not fair that he can't do that. He said that people really need to do what he wants, because they'd be much better off that way because he's actually very smart and people need to listen to him and do what he says. He said the problem is he just doesn't have the social skills and charm to get people to do what he wants.

He went on like this with absolutely no awareness that maybe "getting everyone to do what I want all the time" is not a good goal in itself. I realized that basically what he was saying was that he really, really wished he was a charming, manipulative sociopath, but alas, he is merely a borderline who isn't skillful enough to control other people all the time, and is so distressed when he can't maintain control over other people.

I didn't actually say that to him, but I think it was a good example of my hypothesis that perhaps Cluster B's are all wannabe sociopaths of varying levels of achievement.

Also, it makes me wonder if some Cluster B's can progress over time. Like maybe over a years a borderline can become better at fooling themselves and become a narcissist, and maybe eventually a narcissist can learn to quit caring what other people think and become a sociopath.

Just my thoughts and speculations. I am not a psychologist.

[AlmostRyan]

He went on like this with absolutely no awareness that maybe "getting everyone to do what I want all the time" is not a good goal in itself. I realized that basically what he was saying was that he really, really wished he was a charming, manipulative sociopath, but alas, he is merely a borderline who isn't skillful enough to control other people all the time, and is so distressed when he can't maintain control over other people.

I didn't actually say that to him, but I think it was a good example of my hypothesis that perhaps Cluster B's are all wannabe sociopaths of varying levels of achievement.

Put another way, I feel like this basically describes those who tend toward communism or similar, and tend toward criminality. Power, control, corruption in various amounts and tactics. It's awful being controlled and shaped by someone else's idea of who we are and what we should be 100% in accordance to them, overtly or covertly, especially when they skirt the law and seem to hate people. This seems to be an aspect of most Cluster B's. I've experienced this from people I think are NPD (the guy who said he's always right and can't understand why you won't do everything he says), BPD (extremely fearful to the point of making up future stories to get you in trouble, impulsive, deceitful), and APD (hates dogs and will say very dirty things to children or other vulnerable adults, gaining the extreme trust of a very select few for purpose of exploiting). They will of course accuse you of the things they do and of having traits they possess.

A healthy relationship is reciprocal, at least in the big picture over time. It is probably boring in some sense. Sometimes I like to say that, just to remind myself who I am and what I look for.

[Tangled mangled]

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions. I do appreciate that one can not apply the term generally to all pwbpd.

Mine fits Gerda’s description of BPD most of the time but shows signs of psychopathy when stressed and most times he generates the stress internally and expects those around him to be controlled by dysfunction/dysregulation.

Update: I responded to the threats of the family home being repossessed ‘in weeks’ by demanding proof of documentation and with indifference. The result of my response was that he came back to his senses: he’s now being’ reasonable’ , encouraging me to cooperate with him in order not to lose assets.
He’s months deep in arrears and the letter from the bank states it’s considering legal action- not repossession in 2 weeks. My ex threat was to see if he could push me enough to remove the restriction notice on the home. It didn’t work.
I will be waiting for the next installation of this madness, I’ve reached the point where I don’t give a F??ck about it. I don’t care about the money as much as I did previously. If there’s anything left, I will put away for the children.

Thanks everyone